The face mask discussion

[onawah]

How many experts who say the opposite do we need to list for you, Autumn? Kind of futile to take such a stance on a conspiracy theory forum, I would say, unless you're just looking for an argument...
Here's a start:
From RFKennedy Jr.'s Children's Health Defense (several experts cited in this article: https://childrenshealthdefense.org/n...ere-an-agenda/
Dr. Zach Bush Triple board certified physician

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0t84p6H4XA

Dr. Bush and Dr. Blalock, neurosurgeon: https://www.verdenews.com/news/2020/...ience-or-poli/
Dr Andrew Kaufman M.I.T, Duke and the Medical University of South Carolina, expert forensic psychiatrist

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=88qQsWM--3Q

Denis Rancourt PhD former professor of physics at the University of Ottawa, Denis Rancourt, PhD, who just released a paper compiling seven studies on the science surrounding the effectiveness of masks.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=C1ODBTdNiG0

CELEBRATED SCIENTIST: ‘80% NOT SUSCEPTIBLE TO COVID

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3jKGD7XnbRc

Dr. Buttar is board certified and a Diplomate in Clinical Metal Toxicology and Preventive Medicine, is board eligible in Emergency Medicine and has achieved fellowship status in three separate medical organizations (Fellow of the American College for Advancement in Medicine, Fellow of the American Academy of Preventive Medicine, and Fellow of the American Association of Integrative Medicine).

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uN1jQinyhsA

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Nope...scientists who have studied the subject thoroughly say surgical masks are of great benefit to the public at large, at this current time. This is now indisputable fact, regardless of the flawed analysis of wannabe experts or so called experts.

It's a medical issue and if you feel it encroaches on your civil liberties that is not only your problem but a problem for everyone who has to inhale your unfiltered exhalations.

(OF course, it's going to be more and more difficult to find the testimonies of experts who say that face masks are not a good idea because they are being censored on youtube, FB, etc. And the studies which are backed by the corporations who are profiting from the plandemic pay their experts well to toe the party line, as opposed to the unbiased studies, which are arriving at the opposite conclusion. )

[DaveToo]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Face masks protect others from you and should be mandatory in small enclosed spaces. The potency of the virus appears to be diminishing so hopefully nobody will have to worry about it in the near future! They do feel creepy when it's hot and humid. That's for sure!

Sorry Autumn, I have just done extensive research on this subject for a project.
I'm going to call you on it.

Please state your sources for your position? Or is this just something you believe, or feel in your gut?

[DaveToo]

Posted by greybeard (here)
In Scotland we will be forced to wear face masks in all shops.
I have asked the Dr for a letter of exemption on medical grounds --they are getting back to me.
Chris

Fortunately in Canada, we can be exempted WITHOUT a medical letter.
And that's exactly what I do.
I have not worn a face mask up until now, and will not wear one in the future.

[greybeard]

Taken from official literature

"You may also have a reasonable excuse not to wear a face covering if, for example:
• you have a health condition where a face covering would be inappropriate because it would cause difficulty, pain or severe distress or anxiety or because you cannot apply a covering and wear it in the proper manner safely and consistently."

I might get brave and go and see the local supermarket manager to be sure that staff are aware there are exceptions -- I dont like confrontation and dont want to be hassled by staff or customers.

Chris

[greybeard]

TRUTH THAT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND Dr Rashid Buttar YouTube

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=9MPI7lzx1l4

[Sabrina]

Wise words from Magenta Pixie on wearing masks:

"Yet in truth it is a sign of acquiescence to the borg control machine. A sign of compliance to a totalitarian regime. A sign one is willing to stop speaking their truth. A sign that we are happy to restrict our oxygen intake and celestial pranic flow of lifeforce. A sign we give permission for our own slavery and a new world order takeover.
So no, for those who know the truth it is not a sign of 'mutual respect' at all.
WeDoNotConsent"

[mountain_jim]

https://twitter.com/catturd2/status/...341460999?s=20

[RunningDeer]

Posted by greybeard (here)
TRUTH THAT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND Dr Rashid Buttar YouTube

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=9MPI7lzx1l4

Thanks, Chris.

Some points for myself from the video (and elsewhere):

Understanding The HIPPA Law. HIPAA is an acronym for The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act and was first enforced in 1996. This Act was created to provide protection for personal health information.

The Privacy Rule is a federal law which allows you certain rights over your personal health information.

If you have a medical exemption and if they ask you what that medical exemption, they have just violated your HIPPA rights and your American Disabilities Acts rights. Because nobody can ask you what your medical condition is. They cannot by statute, by law ask you. That is against the law. (US law)

If you wear a face mask you are:

• restricting your oxygen
• increasing the amount of carbon dioxide you're breathing back
• an increased amount of bacteria that accumulates from what you’re breathing
• the condensation from your breath is breaking down the polypropylene components of the face mask, breathing in those toxic components and creating a histo toxic, hypoxic injury
• not able to get in fresh oxygen
• increasing your cortisol levels and that drives you into the flight fight response which is a sympathetic overdrive and then that suppresses your immune system

You're increasing your own susceptibility when you wear a mask to every pathogen that's out there: virus, bacteria, spirochetes, microplasma, yeast, fungi, parasites. You are increasing your own susceptibility when you wear a mass. You're stressing your body out. You're making your body weaker. You're making yourself hypoxic. You are more susceptible, more vulnerable to any pathogen.

If you believe the face mask protects and saves you, then what do you care whether I wear a face mask?

Posted by Sabrina (here)
Wise words from Magenta Pixie on wearing masks:

"Yet in truth it is a sign of acquiescence to the borg control machine. A sign of compliance to a totalitarian regime. A sign one is willing to stop speaking their truth. A sign that we are happy to restrict our oxygen intake and celestial pranic flow of lifeforce. A sign we give permission for our own slavery and a new world order takeover.
So no, for those who know the truth it is not a sign of 'mutual respect' at all.
WeDoNotConsent"

Thanks, Sabrina.

[Michelle]

My sister is a nurses aide and has chronic sinus infections from wearing her face mask. The other day she went to the ER and the ER doctor said he suffers from the same thing due to the masks. He’s seeing more staff have issues as well. They have hypoallergenic masks, but not to many so you need to prove the regular masks are an issue medically to be able to wear one.

My friends who are nurses tell me that they know quite a few nurses that are suffering from headaches, fatigue and sinus issues. In my sisters hospital they are short staffed as it seems more people are out sick.

I took my daughter to the hospital for an appointment last month. She almost fainted and was taken to the ER. Face masks are contraindicated for children. Make sure the covering is very light and breathable for the little ones.

♥️

[pueblo]

Now I know where the whole mask thing is coming from...

[DeDukshyn]

 
For all we know, the mask push is because certain interests have invested heavily into masks supply companies and they need their return. This is how a lot of these things work.

Canada's curve is flattened ... and yet, they just now push mandatory masks in Ontario, and it is being considered nationally. And the curve is flat. So what they will probably do is mandate masks, and say "look! Our awesome political minds mandated masks and it flattened the curve! Make sure to vote!"

Politicians shouldn't be lending out medical advice, let a lone mandates ... "Make sure to vote! We flattened the curve!"


Meanwhile ... actual educated, trained, experienced professionals are saying ..

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uIGdv-TybUk

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by DaveToo (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Face masks protect others from you and should be mandatory in small enclosed spaces. The potency of the virus appears to be diminishing so hopefully nobody will have to worry about it in the near future! They do feel creepy when it's hot and humid. That's for sure!

Sorry Autumn, I have just done extensive research on this subject for a project.
I'm going to call you on it.

Please state your sources for your position? Or is this just something you believe, or feel in your gut?

I'm just dropping in here on this thread for a few minutes, which I long ago abandoned.

The issues are not linear and binary. AutumnW is correct, as best I know, and there's statistical evidence to support it.

I don't have the motivation, time or energy to dig it all out of Chris Martenson's videos from a few weeks ago, as I'm reasonably persuaded that no-one posting here (presenting any position or argument) will ever change their minds.

So it's really a moot point. All that's happening is that many (but not all) people are just endlessly banging a loud drum for weeks on end to persuade people that they're right.

But here's the complexity, and the consequent difficulty. There are

• Medical issues (which are not totally clear cut, as for some people some kinds of masks, worn for too long, can be detrimental).
• Human rights and libertarian issues (which are serious and important).

Those two elements are pretty much independent of one another. Meaning, there can be a strong argument TO wear masks for medical reasons, and a strong argument NOT TO wear masks for human rights and psychological conditioning reasons, all of which I understand and endorse.

(Note: some posters here still seem to think that mask wearing is all about protecting oneself. It's not. It's about protecting others in case you're asymptomatic — i.e. have no idea the virus is in your body — and may well be able to infect others easily. Masks do a less-than-perfect job (but far better than nothing) to prevent your own viruses from causing more harm in the community.)

I'm not going to argue any other case here, and won't be engaging in dialog about this. There seems little point. Carry on, if you all must!

[RunningDeer]

Quote from Bill: I’m just dropping in here on this thread for a few minutes, which I long ago abandoned.

I won’t quote Bill’s post to save him from “dropping by”. I did want to give a shout out to say… these are some of my thoughts and feelings of late.

The one above and these:

• "I don't have the motivation, time or energy to dig..." "...videos from a few weeks ago, as I'm reasonably persuaded that no-one posting here (presenting any position or argument) will ever change their minds. "
  
• "So it's really a moot point. All that's happening is that many (but not all) people are just endlessly banging a loud drum for weeks on end to persuade people that they're right."
  
• "I'm not going to argue any other case here, and won't be engaging in dialog about this. There seems little point. Carry on, if you all must! "

............
(Nothing personal Avalon Family. )

♡

[TomKat]

It's becoming a moot point. Local governments are now requiring it. There's a real danger that herd immunity will be achieved and recognized before a vaccine can be developed and widely implemented. That's what the mask is supposed to achieve, keep people from becoming immune. I doubt it will work.

[onawah]

I will carry on, not because I want to be seen as right, but for the same reason I continue to post information on Avalon on many different subjects which the mainstream media wants to hide -- because there is a hidden agenda that has to be exposed.
And for people who don't have time to do their own research, hopefully this is a place where they can come to easily find the answers they need.
I also have no wish to get into a debate about this.
I will admit that for conspiracy theorists, it's easy to jump to the conclusion that nowadays whatever the mainstream is saying about something controversial is likely to be the opposite of the truth,
Even if there is no corroborating evidence, which is why we are always encouraged to look for corroborating evidence.
There is no lack of testimony from unbiased studies and credible experts from scientific fields to demonstrate that masks and social distancing don't work and are causing the opposite of what they are supposed to be preventing, not to mention the ruin of many lives and many countries' economies.
Or that the whole lockdown scenario including the proposed vaccine, the contact tracing, the push for a social credit system such as China has, is just part of the globalist's agenda long in the making to create an Orwellian New World Order.
I think most of us agree on this.
So it seems very odd to me that anyone on this forum, which is supposed to be about conspiracy theory and exposing the truth that the mainstream wants to hide, should be more or less taken to task by Bill for doing the very job that I think most of us come here to do.
Granted, there may be some narcissists that just need to be seen as right; hopefully they won't stay long or have much effect while they're here.
But on the whole, I think we do a pretty good job of covering the major conspiracies of the day, and I don't think masking is any exception.
As more evidence, I will present another case of the psychological torture that is being inflicted on the public as explained here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1365051

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NQTBlbx1Xjs

"Jun.08 -- Maria Van Kerkhove, head of the World Health Organization’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, says transmission of the coronavirus by people who aren’t showing symptoms is 'very rare.' She spoke Monday at a briefing in Geneva."
and then:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Im0G7jb78jc

WHO Clarifies Claims on Asymptomatic Covid-19 CasesJun 9, 2020
"A top World Health Organization (WHO) expert on Tuesday sought to clear up "misunderstandings" after her comments were widely understood to suggest that transmission of the coronavirus by infected people who show no symptoms was rare, insisting she was referring to a few studies,

No doubt this woman has no clue she is furthering an evil agenda, but is just following orders from on high.
But the brunt of research that was done about how to deal with a virus before Covid ever appeared contradicts what is officially being pushed now, and little attention is devoted to that, though as more and more evidence mounts about the flawed tests, the skewed statistics, the cover ups involving empty hospitals, of hospitals killing people with ventilators because they've essentially been bribed to do so, of not treating critically ill people who don't display virus symptoms, of the number of deaths being attributed to Covid that were not caused by Covid, etc,. etc. anyone who is paying attention has no logical reason to believe the stories that are being force fed to the public 24 hours a day by lamestream media.
But I don't really see any logical reason why it should be necessary to reiterate all this on what is supposed to be forum for conspiracy theorists -or truth seekers, or whatever we wish to call ourselves.
And I am kind of creeped out now, having been so long an active member here, because it does seem necessary.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by onawah (here)
"A top World Health Organization (WHO) expert on Tuesday sought to clear up "misunderstandings" after her comments were widely understood to suggest that transmission of the coronavirus by infected people who show no symptoms was rare, insisting she was referring to a few studies

Chris Martenson, sharply critical of the WHO, has often played this marvelous video to make the point.

Here's the WHO bus doing another U-turn:

[Hym]

Constitutional attorney, Rick Martin has just completed the tort form on his website..

He is encouraging anyone who is refused entrance to a business for not wearing a mask, to fill one out and file it.

Tort Claim:
https://www.constitutionallawgroup.u...-terrorism.pdf


Instructions to fill out:
https://www.constitutionallawgroup.u...im-revised.pdf


The website is:

constitutionallawgroup.us

A good base of information and resources.

[Hym]

In response to my post above, #317:

I support all efforts of those who want to go the legal route this way. If I was a business owner I would have already filed the claim.

I talked to the constitutional attorney for a bit and understood the immense amount of information overload he is now under. I think it will get busier for him in some ways, yet hopefully with a decreasing research load due to the efforts of those who will volunteer to help him in researching and filing individual claims. The information gathered by any responses challenging a tort claim should be an interesting study in the dynamics of the political choices and the morality that shapes their direction. They are always helpful in defining the work that has to be done to get lasting results.

He has already personally helped some small businesses reopen when threatened with being fined or shut down by police. He notes that it only takes a little time to stop the actions by the police, usually a sheriff here in the states. He cites constitutional law and the unlawful implementation of state mandates in great detail, also citing the vast resources within the published science that refute the reasoning for implementing draconian restrictions upon personal and professional freedoms.

We agreed on the instructions from OSHA, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, being a common sense basis for the proven use and the unhealthy overuse of masks, especially for those of us decades deep in the experiences on both sides of the issue. We wear masks when we need protection, not when others need protection from us. In that case we should not be at work or in public. That is only effective in the clinical use of masks.

There is no way that OSHA would agree to requiring anyone to wear a mask all day long, especially when working. We are taught this in our OSHA safety classes, the ones required to stay employed in any working union and legally bound in any non-union employment that requires protection from an airborne particulate or aerosol. We are well aware that the overuse of masks is unhealthy enough at times to become dangerous and sometimes deadly, solely due to the reabsorption of carbon dioxide and the resultant hypercapnia that damages the immune system and poses an immediate threat to the health of the one wearing such a restrictive PPE.

For many of us who have used masks in our careers, it is clearly unhealthy to wear masks for any extended period of time. We all know from experience that if we wear them too often we will get sick, no matter the high baseline of our personal health. Air in and absorbed. Carbon dioxide out and away from the new air we must then immediately breath in, many times per minute, all day long, all life long. Damn! Could it be any more simple than that!

This is no easy walk for the many business owners, at this time creating 80% of U.S. GNP, who have lost so much of their income and lifelong efforts to create a stable income for their families and their employees.

This ends, far from the harsh economic impositions and the unhealthy oxymoron of social distancing, when people choose their own solutions and begin living in that presence, in the times before the reactions to the imbedded chaos have concluded. On many levels it is very clear.

[Old Student]

Where is your documented "science" coming from? Hospital settings? In the community, there have been EMS standard operating procedures for at least going on two decades now, that when someone is suspected of having an infectious respiratory disease, you put a mask on them to avoid others contracting the disease.

This disease has asymptomatic spread -- people can be infected and spreading without symptoms. Since we do not know who could be potentially spreading the disease, we put the masks on people to keep them from spreading what they potentially don't know they have.

This disease is quite a mess -- it is a vascular disease that destroys virtually any subsystem of the human body if it gets to it. It is serious in 20% of those with symptoms regardless of age. In many of those who do recover, there is permanent damage.

We treated someone once we were called to the scene with child with headache. We arrived at the same time as someone with higher level of training, they put a mask on the child immediately and had everyone move back to the six foot distance. That was before we asked even our first question. The first question was, "Can you touch your chin to your chest?" Small children don't usually get headaches -- so the worry was of meningitis. See the protocol? Mask on child first, "social distance" to six feet, then start figuring it out. Why? Deadly disease spread by aerosol, people could be infected before they knew what it was.

That was ten years ago. Even further ago, the protocols for SARS were full suit first, separated ambulances only, mask on patient first and then treat.

Protocol for TB is mask on patient first and then treat.

See a pattern here?

The idea that the science is with no masks just not true. The science, and evidence based practice has been with masks for decades.

[Hym]

Getting a bit personal there Bubba. I don't do that, unless you want to learn a little.

Do you understand what you just wrote? You just agreed with what I wrote. Of course we mask those who have the obvious symptoms of exposure to contagions. We do not, however, ignore the simple science that tells us restricting our oxygen intake and absorbing carbon dioxide back into our bloodstream is very unhealthy, and when done over a long period of time increases the reactivation of the dormant viruses we carry.

The protocol you mention has always been the case, when it is obvious that the patient is under great duress with the symptoms of infectious disease. This is not the case we're talking about and you know it.

And for sure, no one ever told you to "Social" distance before this pandemic arrived, as I doubt you read the school experiment of the 14 year old student who first used the term "social distancing". You are conflating asymptomatic carriers and those with no exposure at all with those who show acute distress. That is nonsense.

Did you watch all of the videos and the results posted here, just on this thread alone? I'm willing to discuss the presentations of the professionals in the videos here on this thread, but I won't waste time repeating scenarios that even those who refuse to wear masks under this mandate would agree to do so in those other, rare cases.


It is not "my" science. I didn't research it or publish it. I just read the research and results in their entirety, as I do most all of the papers from the researchers and the scientists who devote their lives to their studies.

Robert F.Kennedy Jr. published a lengthly study on the use of masks on his site The Childrens Defense Fund.

Dr.Rashid Battar talks about it on his site, in his lectures and in his videos. If you listened to and understood even one of his videos on the dangers of overusing a mask when you are healthy or if you have any comorbidity, in which case you should seek out treatment, then you would not have taken the time to respond with such emotion. I do not disagree with the use of masks, as no one else discussing this here now does, when acute symptoms need to be mitigated.

Judy A. Mikovits talks extensively about her 40 years of clinical research on infectious disease and often talks about why we should rarely wear masks, except in a clinical setting. Read her book "Plague of Corruption" if you really want to discuss it and then I'd talk to her, not me, as she is one of the best.

And on.....However, I'm not here to indulge anyone who hasn't taken the time to learn and to simply watch all of the presentations on this thread alone, let alone throughout this entire site.

If you choose not to read the entire thread, the one we are on now, then why do you bother to debate anything at all, with anyone here?

The only requisite here is to read, to listen, to understand before you comment. It is obvious you haven't done that because all of the doctors, the researchers and those working in the hospitals themselves have commented here, in their videos and on this thread. And that's just the beginning of the studies, the science, the proofs.

You aren't afforded the luxury of picking and choosing opinion over science and experiences related to this particular pandemic, unless you are here just to be antagonistic. Wrong guy to b.s. with here.