Trump is NOT the answer

**Bill Ryan** · 10th November 2020 16:21

Posted by Star Mariner (here)

Precisely who are these "alt-right" people you talk of?

Yes, the "alt-right" label is very misunderstood, misused, and even abused.

The forum members are almost uniformly libertarian or classic liberal — depending on the definitions.

They're:

Anti censorship
Anti authoritarian
Pro free speech
Anti political correctness and identity politics (such as espoused by SJWs)
Anti war
Anti NWO
Anti vaccines and big pharma (largely)
Pro environment
Pro All Lives Matter
Anti racism and prejudice of any kind
Pro personal freedom in almost every way.

The questions then are ONLY about how this translates into real-life politics. But it may be helpful to realize how fully the membership here is in fundamental agreement about a great many very important things.

**Journeyman** · 10th November 2020 16:25

Posted by Patient (here)
Fyi; I beleive that our election was stolen from us as well - Trudeau was elected by using the same software that was used by Bidens' group.

So yeah, Canada and the U.S are close friends.

The goal of our enemy would be to have us all fighting amongst ourselves.

Looking on from afar, it looks like conflict, division and chaos were the objectives of this election, regardless of who finally holds power.

**Bill Ryan** · 10th November 2020 16:39

Posted by Journeyman (here)

Looking on from afar, it looks like conflict, division and chaos were the objectives of this election, regardless of who finally holds power.

You may well be right. One of the many scenarios in this yet-to-be-finalized movie script is that the Deep State might "allow" Trump to have a second term, because I'd argue that's the election outcome that would most likely set off further chaos, widespread destruction, and domestic terrorism in the US.

(But that would still be best for the country. Those wounds can be healed in time. But a Biden presidency — or a Harris-Clinton one — would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.)

**Forest Denizen** · 10th November 2020 18:32

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Yes, the "alt-right" label is very misunderstood, misused, and even abused.

The forum members are almost uniformly libertarian or classic liberal — depending on the definitions.

They're:

Anti censorship
Anti authoritarian
Pro free speech
Anti political correctness and identity politics (such as espoused by SJWs)
Anti war
Anti NWO
Anti vaccines and big pharma (largely)
Pro environment
Pro All Lives Matter
Anti racism and prejudice of any kind
Pro personal freedom in almost every way.

The questions then are ONLY about how this translates into real-life politics. But it may be helpful to realize how fully the membership here is in fundamental agreement about a great many very important things.

Bill, it’s nice to hear you state the above forum member attributes; however, you then go on to say, in response to Journeyman..

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Journeyman (here)

Looking on from afar, it looks like conflict, division and chaos were the objectives of this election, regardless of who finally holds power.

You may well be right. One of the many scenarios in this yet-to-be-finalized movie script is that the Deep State might "allow" Trump to have a second term, because I'd argue that's the election outcome that would most likely set off further chaos, widespread destruction, and domestic terrorism in the US.

(But that would still be best for the country. Those wounds can be healed in time. But a Biden presidency — or a Harris-Clinton one — would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.)

With the utmost respect, Bill, the problem with you doing this is that there are quite a few forum members who hold an opposing viewpoint. They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways and that the continuation of a Trump presidency would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.

You have asked the Moderators to walk a fine line here and avoid taking a position in this political battle and yet you have done exactly that, in a thread entitled Trump is NOT the answer no less. Your opinion is of enormous import on this forum (your forum).

What has happened is a number of members have been cowed into silence by a very vocal group of Trump supporters, yourself included. I don’t know what the answer to this dilemma is but I felt I should point this out

**rgray222** · 10th November 2020 18:45

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Journeyman (here)

Looking on from afar, it looks like conflict, division and chaos were the objectives of this election, regardless of who finally holds power.

You may well be right. One of the many scenarios in this yet-to-be-finalized movie script is that the Deep State might "allow" Trump to have a second term, because I'd argue that's the election outcome that would most likely set off further chaos, widespread destruction, and domestic terrorism in the US.

(But that would still be best for the country. Those wounds can be healed in time. But a Biden presidency — or a Harris-Clinton one — would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.)

Yes, the conflict, division and chaos were intentional but it was all for the purpose of getting rid of Trump. This entire mechanism, big tech, mainstream media and key states with Biden governors and mayors were all in place since 2016. They fully intended to implement everything you are seeing today after the 2016 election. Hillary losing caught everyone off guard. Just prior to the 2016 election they started to believe their own polls. They literally did not believe that Hillary could lose. Proof of this was the Comey press conference giving Hillary legitimacy just prior to the election. They did not want to deal with Hillary's criminal behaviour after the election was over. Also, the reason they choose Comey to hold this press conference about Hillary is that most Americans would simply say the FBI already investigated, case closed. Comey should no more of held that press conference than the man in the moon. That is the function of the DOJ, FBI only investigates, DOJ prosecutes or finds innocence.

When you look at this current election objectionably there is no way that Trump lost the election. I honestly believe that he won the popular vote and the electoral college vote. (spare me the conspiracy and the sore loser talk it's my opinion). There was a true red wave moving through election night. Every state, every county was moving rapidly in Trump's direction. It was brought to a screeching halt and each day small increments of Biden votes showed up and hardly ever a Trump vote was found. Every single one of these states is run by Democrats with the exception of Georgia. All one hundred and fifty-nine counties in Georgia had reported election results and votes were counted with the exception of one county. Fulton County which is where Atlanta resides. Fulton Country has a strong Democrat machine in place (one of the strongest in the country) with enough votes to sway the election. In Pennsylvania, there was a block of 23,962 votes found after the election all for Biden, not one vote for Trump. This is an impossibility. Democrats have rationalized this away.

At this juncture barring a miracle, I think Biden has the election sewed up. It is just too hard to unravel the mess that was intentionally created to give cover to the cheating and theft.

If this is not investigated with a vengeance we will never see another businessperson in the White House. The system demands career politicians that will keep the wars going and play the game.

Hong Kong and the USA are fighting two entirely different wars but they are inextricably linked together, the outcome of the two conflicts will be indistinguishable. There is a long term plan playing out and it does not include and independent President of the USA or millions of independent people residing in Hong Kong. More later.

**AutumnW** · 10th November 2020 19:17

Bill,

Anti racist? The forum is full of anti-racists? I perused the forum for less than 5 minutes after replying to some posts. This is what pops up on a thread written by Ernie Nemeth.

It is the white races that are under siege, the majority, and we had better ready ourselves for the onslaught. And although it is the medical tyranny being rolled out in the country right now, making it seem as though it is not about race, watch who ends up in those interment camps, and who doesn't.

That's for starters. I could go down the rest of your list, I am sure and note all of the contradictions.

**TargeT** · 10th November 2020 19:23

Posted by Ken (here)
With the utmost respect, Bill, the problem with you doing this is that there are quite a few forum members who hold an opposing viewpoint. They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways and that the continuation of a Trump presidency would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.

This is an open debate, facts have been offered and there is a very clear conclusion; when this post started it was needed as we "didn't know".

we have 4 years of DATA that backs up Bill's conclusion (not opinion).

This statement alone should be easily and clearly backed up by data:

They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways

That is the point of this thread.

I haven't seen anything to back up that statement other than putting the emphasis on "feel"; and that's ok but it's not tracking reality very closely currently.

no one is cowed into silence, they are asked for the reasons behind particular stances, this is the place for those reasons; un backed statements are not overly helpful.

aka: build your case

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Bill,

Anti racist? The forum is full of anti-racists? I perused the forum for less than 5 minutes after replying to some posts. This is what pops up on a thread written by Ernie Nemeth.

It is the white races that are under siege, the majority, and we had better ready ourselves for the onslaught. And although it is the medical tyranny being rolled out in the country right now, making it seem as though it is not about race, watch who ends up in those interment camps, and who doesn't.

That's for starters. I could go down the rest of your list, I am sure and note all of the contradictions.

So you are saying that Ernie's very real observation mean's he's racist?

That is a fact based observation, please tell us how it is incorrect and where you see the "racism" in it?

Posted by AutumnW (here)
There is only one party that wants domestic conflict. Though both parties mirror each other when it comes to making war on brown people elsewhere, the Dems have largely tried to avoid or calm down conflict on home turf.

The republicans, through pouring gasoline on simmering fires, did so to service their desire for a police state. This is the real totalitarian tip toe that the alt right ignores. They have this fear of 'socialism' and 'communism' taking over, while ignoring the elephant in the room, encroaching hard fascism.

it doesn't seem that you are in touch with reality....

Almost all violence over the last 4 years has come from "left" orginizations, BLM, ANTIFA, LBGQT orgs...

I'm a bit astounded this is your view point, but the rest of your posts make a bit more sense in light of that.

**AutumnW** · 10th November 2020 19:24

Posted by Journeyman (here)

Posted by Patient (here)
Fyi; I beleive that our election was stolen from us as well - Trudeau was elected by using the same software that was used by Bidens' group.

So yeah, Canada and the U.S are close friends.

The goal of our enemy would be to have us all fighting amongst ourselves.

Looking on from afar, it looks like conflict, division and chaos were the objectives of this election, regardless of who finally holds power.

There is only one party that wants domestic conflict. Though both parties mirror each other when it comes to making war on brown people elsewhere, the Dems have largely tried to avoid or calm down conflict on home turf.

The republicans, through pouring gasoline on simmering fires, did so to service their desire for a police state. This is the real totalitarian tip toe that the alt right ignores. They have this fear of 'socialism' and 'communism' taking over, while ignoring the elephant in the room, encroaching hard fascism.

**Gwin Ru** · 10th November 2020 19:32

...

... if one is interested in finding out how machiavelically machiavelian the behind the scene is, please see this 1:24:12 long video: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1389253

**AutumnW** · 10th November 2020 19:34

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
(But that would still be best for the country. Those wounds can be healed in time. But a Biden presidency — or a Harris-Clinton one — would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.)

Posted by Ken (here)
With the utmost respect, Bill, the problem with you doing this is that there are quite a few forum members who hold an opposing viewpoint. They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways and that the continuation of a Trump presidency would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.

Posted by TargeT (here)
This is an open debate, facts have been offered and there is a very clear conclusion; when this post started it was needed as we "didn't know".

we have 4 years of DATA that backs up Bill's conclusion (not opinion).

This statement alone should be easily and clearly backed up by data:

They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways

That is the point of this thread.

I haven't seen anything to back up that statement other than putting the emphasis on "feel"; and that's ok but it's not tracking reality very closely currently.

no one is cowed into silence, they are asked for the reasons behind particular stances, this is the place for those reasons; un backed statements are not overly helpful.

aka: build your case

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Bill,

Anti racist? The forum is full of anti-racists? I perused the forum for less than 5 minutes after replying to some posts. This is what pops up on a thread written by Ernie Nemeth.

It is the white races that are under siege, the majority, and we had better ready ourselves for the onslaught. And although it is the medical tyranny being rolled out in the country right now, making it seem as though it is not about race, watch who ends up in those interment camps, and who doesn't.

That's for starters. I could go down the rest of your list, I am sure and note all of the contradictions.

Posted by TargeT (here)
So you are saying that Ernie's very real observation mean's he's racist?

That is a fact based observation, please tell us how it is incorrect and where you see the "racism" in it?

=====================================================

This isn't addressed to me but I will respond anyway. People are cowed into silence or have left in disgust. Able, intelligent and emotionally intelligent people. This "make your case," is beyond belief.

There are so many examples it is mind boggling. YOu, Target, who years ago stated there was no racism in the U.S. and then went on to insist other posters 'prove' that there is.

Trump's words and actions during the race riots, for one, betray his intent. He is a hard authoritarian. He trumpets at rallies, repeatedly that he has all the cops on his side.

Who does that? Seriously, what politician in their right mind would make a statement like that if they aren't trying to drive home the point that they have police backing, "so don't step out of line?" That's one example and it means something. It is 'felt' by those hearing it. And their 'feelings' are legitimate.

How do you think prey animals survive in the wild? Does a gazelle see a lion approaching and then proceed to work out logically whether they are in danger or not?

There is thinking, and then there is over thinking. Over thinkers are generally those whose emotions are not synchronized with their logic.

It takes both and there is an interplay between them that produces a symphony of appropriate reactions. Without the feeling part, you are basically wandering the musical landscape of life with a freaking kazoo.

**AutumnW** · 10th November 2020 19:42

Posted by TargeT (here)