Deep Underground Bases - Uninhabitable?

[Gestalt]

Posted by Teakai (here)
Well, how about water wells? The deeper they go the colder the water that comes from them.
How about the bottom of the ocean being cold?

Ever heard of hydrothermal vents? They exist in the deepest parts of the ocean along the deepest trenches.



Care to guess what causes the heat in hydrothermal vents at the very bottom of the ocean? Geothermal energy...which incidentally comes from lava. So, no matter where you drill on land or explore the deepest parts of the ocean, go deep enough and you begin to encounter an incredible amount of geothermal energy, most probably caused by lava....unless you have another theory of where all this geothermal energy comes from of course....

[Luke]

Actually one could visualize some kind of heat-exchange system. See this heat is free energy for such base. AND if you really want habitable environment some 90% of such base would be hydroponic plantation. Basically base proper would be enclosed in "sheath" of water tanks and plantations, that will also would serve as heat insulation and power source ... and if properly engineered - also dampening system for quakes.
Still Quakes and other forms of geologic activity is a serious problem for such a base. We're talking "sub on the bottom of Mariana Trench" scenario. Squashy Squishy

[Vidya Moksha]

Posted by Gestalt (here)
Care to guess what causes the heat in hydrothermal vents at the very bottom of the ocean? Geothermal energy...which incidentally comes from lava. So, no matter where you drill on land or explore the deepest parts of the ocean, go deep enough and you begin to encounter an incredible amount of geothermal energy, most probably caused by lava....unless you have another theory of where all this geothermal energy comes from of course....

I can buy this thoery quite easily.. question in my mind, now, is : Can the two coexist? larva to a depth then hollow earth? just musing.... and thinking.. will have a look for hollow earth refs.. however, your post about heat in undergound bases is sound, imo

[Teakai]

Posted by Gestalt (here)
Ever heard of hydrothermal vents? They exist in the deepest parts of the ocean along the deepest trenches.

Care to guess what causes the heat in hydrothermal vents at the very bottom of the ocean? Geothermal energy...which incidentally comes from lava. So, no matter where you drill on land or explore the deepest parts of the ocean, go deep enough and you begin to encounter an incredible amount of geothermal energy, most probably caused by lava....unless you have another theory of where all this geothermal energy comes from of course....

Gestalt, just because there are vents, it still doesn't prove that the entire undercrust is made up of lava. It just means there is lava in those areas.
This feels to be taking on the tone of an argument, and I'm not sure why.
You seem to have your heart set on the theory that beneath the surface of the earth is nothing but lava, and I certainly don't have any kind of problem with that.
I don't happen to have a definite opinion because nothing's been proven either way, I was simply offering up a possible explanation in regard to your topic. If you don't like it, you are perfectly free to disregard it.

[perfectresonance]

Does anyone know of a world map where the locations of these bases have been mapped out?

I love how some people say that using Google isn't research. I've been doing some digging on crustal temperature variability based on depth, and ran into articles published in Nature as well as data sets in the public domain by Geoscience Australia. Oh yeah, but what do I know, I don't have a degree

The temperature at 5 km depth has been estimated from temperature log results from 3475 [Australian] boreholes for which bottom-hole temperature and temperature gradient data are available. An image has been built from these extrapolated temperature estimates - http://www.ga.gov.au/meta/ANZCW0703002766.html

Here is the legend, and the image, which covers the Australian land mass and the sea floor to some extent (see original paper cited above for exact area)



And here is the image showing the data



What can we take away from our "research"?

Well, that at certain places on Earth, even at 5 km depth, the temperature is only 50-80 degrees C.

So at 3-4km, using a linear extrapolation (in the absence of real data - still looking), you could expect temperatures around 30 - 40 degrees C, not 100, as was assumed earlier in this thread.

In other words, if you pick your spot right, then a 3-4km deep base is completely feasible based on the temperatures from this survey.

Now.

Where on the image is Pine Gap?

[Teakai]

Posted by Vidya Moksha (here)
there was a group that chartered a research vessel to go to the north pole to look for a 'depression' in the earth's crust, which they claimed was an entrance to the hollow earth, i dont have the link or details now but am interested to find it again, anyone know about it?

they claim the earth cannot have a molten core because?....? i forget.. but it has to be hollow they claim... this is from distant memory,, just typing what i remember, if i have time and can find the links i will post them here...

I think I know the one you're talking about vidya. I can't find it either, but while re-looking for it I came across this which looks like it's got lots of interesting stuff about it - I haven't had a proper look at it myself yet, though.
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?i...26tbs%3Disch:1

[Teakai]

Posted by perfectresonance (here)

Now.

Where on the image is Pine Gap?

Yes, I wondered if they were out there digging a base - or maybe building an ark.

[Luke]

C'mon.. guy is talking Tolkien when evidently only seen the crappy adaptation not the book. Major Fail for me. Shows how he treats the sources.
Now IF we model earth as Toroid, one will notice there is a folding of space on both poles, large vortices
Same model says there might be serious vortex/plasma furnace in the middle of every celestial body magma and all beeing cooling by-products when in "earth configuration"
So in my opinion "Hollow earth" is just very primitive approach to deal with problem of folding space, inclusions, wave-crafted portal-connected self included worlds, and all that wonderful things post-materialistic physics gives

[starsmoonmtns]

Australia - mid-central,,,not to mention under the denver airport and unused???? missile silos , esp., here in the usa.
; )

[Teakai]

I just thought of something else, which might add to the hollow earth idea. Scientists say that the Chile earthquake has altered the earth's axis. Now if the magnetic core is within the centre of the earth, isn't it that core which dictates the earths axis?
It would seem to me to make more sense if the earth's magnetic field lay in it's crust - as the hollow earth theory suggests - for it to be affected by the quake.

I know zilch about this, so anyone who knows how that works, can you set me straight about how that goes?

[Teakai]

Posted by SaiCO (here)
Same model says there might be serious vortex/plasma furnace in the middle of every celestial body magma and all beeing cooling by-products when in "earth configuration"

LOL.
So, I guess you wouldn't be into the cold core sun theory, then ?

[Dougall]

Some mines run 3 km deep. I cant say what the temp is down there.
I will say that I look at the content of this site with interest and amusement. I come here for out of the ordinary info, for fun, and because I find it compelling at times.

Gestalt - I think you have a background in Geology and it looks like you know your stuff. Please forgive me for skimming a lot of the material I read here, and just ask a question of you. Are you asserting that no underground bases exist? I certainly can't say if they do or not.
Does it follow that UFOs and ETs are fiction as well or are the Bases just something you throw out of the mix?

When I was young man I read a work of fiction titled Etidorhpa. It shaped my outlook regarding the world. It's a fun read and has some interesting theories regarding Hollow Earth vs Molten Earth. Do I accept it as Fact? Of course not! It's fiction.

The same sort of spirit is applied when I hear an audio about underground bases and "The Tubes" etc. I don't take it for fact, however I find it stimulating and the "What If" factor kicks in.

This thread is pretty good, with facts and opinions on both sides. Some of the other threads have bogged down with ridged debunkers and outright buzz kills. It is good to see the back and forth going on here in an upbeat manner.

I do believe that the US Military is way, way more advanced than what is commonly known. I have seen a few things with my own eyes that convinced me. That doesn't make me special or have any extra insight, however I feel certain that if underground bases are possible to build and maintain, they've got em.

[truthseekerdan]

Posted by Vidya Moksha (here)
Im not been funny, but the most stupid, impractical people i have ever met have PhDs. I view most scientists with incedulity these days (i am a professional scientist (really lol), what does that mean? it means I get paid to do scientific research.. so what? i know people far more intelligent than me who dont have university degrees, and they dont carry all the misinformed dogma my mind is cluttered with)... Science is dogma for the most part... and i dont care for dogma much...

there was a group that chartered a research vessel to go to the north pole to look for a 'depression' in the earth's crust, which they claimed was an entrance to the hollow earth, i dont have the link or details now but am interested to find it again, anyone know about it?

they claim the earth cannot have a molten core because?....? i forget.. but it has to be hollow they claim... this is from distant memory,, just typing what i remember, if i have time and can find the links i will post them here...

You might be referring to Dr. Brooks Agnew

[Gestalt]

Posted by perfectresonance (here)
Well, that at certain places on Earth, even at 5 km depth, the temperature is only 50-80 degrees C.

So at 3-4km, using a linear extrapolation (in the absence of real data - still looking), you could expect temperatures around 30 - 40 degrees C, not 100, as was assumed earlier in this thread.

In other words, if you pick your spot right, then a 3-4km deep base is completely feasible based on the temperatures from this survey.

I am not sure what assumptions you are referring too, but keep in mind there is a moderate but significant differenence between 3-4km and 3-4 miles. 4km....being only 2.5 miles. Maybe having a degree, would have helped you distinguish this difference.(i jest) Most "whistelblowers" coming from the US are talking in miles not km.... 3-4km might be feasible in remote locations on the continental USA but not 3-4 miles. Your temperature differential picture of Australia, is extremely hard to decipher, i can't tell where the coast is or anything. As well, is that the depth below the ground surface, or sea level? That difference alone could drastically change the data.

Posted by Vidya Moksha (here)
I can buy this thoery quite easily.. question in my mind, now, is : Can the two coexist? larva to a depth then hollow earth? just musing.... and thinking.. will have a look for hollow earth refs.. however, your post about heat in undergound bases is sound, imo

No, I don't believe hollow earth theory can coexist with a magma layer in the center....something needs to create all that heat to create that magma, and only a "solid" core earth that works like a dynamo could create that amount of magma/geothermal energy. The hollow earth theory lacks a driver/explanation for creating magma/geothermal energy that we observe, and this is the failure of that theory.

Posted by Teakai (here)
Gestalt, just because there are vents, it still doesn't prove that the entire undercrust is made up of lava. It just means there is lava in those areas.
This feels to be taking on the tone of an argument, and I'm not sure why.
You seem to have your heart set on the theory that beneath the surface of the earth is nothing but lava, and I certainly don't have any kind of problem with that.
I don't happen to have a definite opinion because nothing's been proven either way, I was simply offering up a possible explanation in regard to your topic. If you don't like it, you are perfectly free to disregard it.

So, in conclusion:
1. The deeper we drill on land, the hotter it gets.
2. The deeper we drill/explore in the ocean the hotter it gets.
3. All that heat must come from somewhere....most probably lava.

Teakai, you have not presented any evidence that would suggest that the deeper you go the cooler it becomes. All available data points to there being lava miles below the surface. As I stated before, unless you can provide counter-evidence (which I am entirely open to btw) hollow earth theory in regards to deep(in excess of 3-4+ miles) underground bases is logically impossible.

To reiterate my point, large underground bases at a depth of 1 mile are completely possible BUT anything below 2-4miles would seem near impossible for most of the land area on the earth.

[Heirgott]

Take into perspective that the theory states that the earths crust is 800 miles thick and the center of gravity is at the 400 mark that leaves a good 200 miles atleast for your magma to reside. Then some 600 miles later is a land with a concave horizon and an inner sun. The theory also states that the earth is hollow because the earth rings like a bell when there are earthquakes apparently.

[Gestalt]

Posted by Heirgott (here)
Take into perspective that the theory states that the earths crust is 800 miles thick and the center of gravity is at the 400 mark that leaves a good 200 miles atleast for your magma to reside. Then some 600 miles later is a land with a concave horizon and an inner sun.

Yes agreed, there is room for magma to exist, however there is no adequate explanation for what creates the heat energy that makes the magma in the first place. A solid earth dynamo core does explain this quite well.

The theory also states that the earth is hollow because the earth rings like a bell when there are earthquakes apparently.

"Solid" earth theory explains this as well, the core being mostly liquid and conducive to propagating waves similar to sound in water.

[SteveX]

Just to add to the debate from this link. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_does_t...soil_increases

The soil temperatre increases as depth increases due to the heat created by the compression of the surrounding earth. The rate of change of temperature with depth is referred to as the geothermal gradient. The geothermal gradient varies depending on location, so there is no uniform answer. On average, the geothermal gradient is approximately 75 degrees F per mile. In volcanically active areas, the gradient can be as high as 150 degrees F per mile. In ocean trenches, the gradient may be as low as 15 degrees F per mile. Decay of naturally occurring radioactive elements may also cause localized increases in temperature in some locations.

[Gestalt]

Heya SteveX, thanks for the input in regards to geothermal gradients.

However it seems most (80%) of the earth's heat is generated by radioactive decay which is seemingly not affected by pressure(source).

From Wikipedia:
"The geothermal gradient is the rate at which the Earth's temperature increases with depth, indicating outward heat flows from a hot interior. Away from tectonic plate boundaries, it is 25-30°C per km of depth in most of the world.

The Earth's internal heat comes from a combination of residual heat from planetary accretion (about 20%) and heat produced through radioactive decay (80%).[2] The major heat-producing isotopes in the Earth are potassium-40, uranium-238, uranium-235, and thorium-232."

Seems heating occurs more quickly at 25 degrees C per km (on average) rather than my original post where I stated it was per 25C per mile, thus making bases deeper than 4km(2.5miles) for the most part unlikely.

Map showing the geothermal gradient in the US:

[SpoonMan]

Any giant underground "base" or structures would need to be pretty damn tough material especially to bear the pressures that deep(think the ocean but dirt and rock). I imagine that same structure could serve as a heat barrier. If you have the technology to bore 4 miles down and dig out a giant base, as well as supply this base with Air, water, food etc then you probably have that thing air conditioned.

If you are a galactic race like these so called lizard dudes then a little core temperature and pressure is not going to stop your base building.

[Gestalt]

Posted by SpoonMan (here)
Any giant underground "base" or structures would need to be pretty damn tough material especially to bear the pressures that deep(think the ocean but dirt and rock). I imagine that same structure could serve as a heat barrier. If you have the technology to bore 4 miles down and dig out a giant base, as well as supply this base with Air, water, food etc then you probably have that thing air conditioned.

If you are a galactic race like these so called lizard dudes then a little core temperature and pressure is not going to stop your base building.

Pressure isn't really an issue, but cooling is. An underground base that deep wouldn't be very safe in the event of a power/air conditioning failure.
Found an interesting article addressing these issues here.

"The pressures created by the weight of overlying rocks also increase significantly with increasing depth. The pressure in the rocks goes up by 300 bars for every kilometer increase in depth (atmospheric pressure at sea level is 1 bar). A person in a tunnel would not experience this pressure directly, as the pressure in the air in the tunnel is only affected by the weight of the air above the person, not the rock. Air pressure would go up with depth, but much more slowly. However, as the rock pressure goes up, the walls of a tunnel begin to experience very large forces, which can lead to partial collapse of tunnel walls or ceilings (called rock bursts). Rock bursts and tunnel stability become important problems at depths of several kilometers and are well known in deep mines.

Temperature is the biggest one. The temperature of the earth's crust increases downward at about 30°C for every kilometer of increased depth. That means a 3 kilometer deep mine might reach temnperatures of nearly 100 C (nearly the boiling point of water. Human body temperature is 37°C and so once you are deeper than a kilometer or so, the air in the tunnels must be cooled. The air cooling systems needed for deep mines are immense and very costly.."

With enough advanced intergalactic alien technology, and assuming no power failures you could probably build fairly deep to 6 miles....not sure how much deeper you could go though. Can one build structures to live on the surface of the sun, or in volcanoes? Is there any point in doing this, even for lizard alien peoples?