Trump is NOT the answer

[Zamolxe]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Zamolxe (here)

So I would like to know.. concretely, what makes you consider Trump as a savior figure?

I do appreciate your very civil question. The best simple answer may be this:

As I've posted several times, it's not because of who he is. It's because of who he's not.

I'd encourage you (or anyone else!) to read my two long and detailed personal Q&A posts here, quite carefully. There's a lot of information there.

1. #1182 (20 November)
2. #1207 (21 December)

Thanks for the reply, I read the posts and went down the thread for more details.

So from what I can see, what he is not is part of the deep state.

The purpose of this thread was to centralize the actions he took that literally show he is not part of the deep state. Have the actual facts listed here.
Because besides his rhetoric and countless claims on the internet that he is fighting the deep state behind closed doors, I don't know of any concrete activity of his against the deep state.

Opposed to that, I do know a number of arguments based on facts that would prove the exact contrary.


Also, there was a list in one of those posts:

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
The forum members are almost uniformly libertarian or classic liberal — depending on the definitions.
They're:

• Anti censorship
• Anti authoritarian
• Pro free speech
• Anti political correctness and identity politics (such as espoused by SJWs)
• Anti war
• Anti NWO
• Anti vaccines and big pharma (largely)
• Pro environment
• Pro All Lives Matter
• Anti racism and prejudice of any kind
• Pro personal freedom in almost every way.

There are also countless factual examples that would place Trump in complete antithesis of multiple points in that list.

[Old Student]

I'm sorry, but you're going to have to explain to this "naive" non-Trump supporter exactly what it means to defund a theory. That seems like a nonsensical statement, you know, the type that can't even be proven false because a statement needs to mean something before it can be proven either way.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Trump is not savoir. It's called a real grassroots movement, unlike that fomented by the left. It's about systemic corruption on a scale closing in on insurmountable power. It is about the technocracy that seeks to dominate and dictate policy to governments and peoples all over the world. It is about as Americans call it, Liberty. It's as close to freedom the world has ever been able to dream. And it is a dream far from realization, and slipping further and further into wistful fantasy. Trump drew a line in the sand and invited freedom loving patriots to join the cause. His call is so loud and so clear that freedom loving people in other lands who had almost forgotten their own wish had their dreams rekindled - and their hope revitalized.

World-wide Systemic Corruption and the technocracy that supports it must be addressed, opposed, and ultimately defeated. Without Trump, we must find another champion to lead us in the charge. Such men and women are truly needles in a haystack. Who else is there?

And don't think this can be done by community opposition either. That did not work in China and it won't work here either. The technocracy is a monster, a massive behemoth with tentacles in every institution on the planet and enjoying the favor of elite friends with empires and global influence.

One side of the narrative has been effectively silenced - THEY SILENCED THE VOICE OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT! The technocracy muted the leader of the free world, wrangled him in legal battles, and threatened him with treason and perdition.

When they silenced him they silenced us, maybe we missed that?

Will we ever be heard again?

Maybe I'll meet you guys in the gulag detention camps the western world did not build by the thousands...

[PurpleLama]

Posted by Old Student (here)
I'm sorry, but you're going to have to explain to this "naive" non-Trump supporter exactly what it means to defund a theory. That seems like a nonsensical statement, you know, the type that can't even be proven false because a statement needs to mean something before it can be proven either way.

You don't know anything about corpratized diversity or racial sensitivity training? Never heard of Ibram Kendi or anti-racism? How about Robin DiAngelo? You need to know about what is being discussed, what Mike is pointing at is going on in public schools, and in corporate offices all across the country, and is rapidly becoming pervasive. In this case I would not suggest you are being naive, but uninformed? Yes. There is a remedy for that!

In a nut shell, critical theory comes from combining critical systems theory and postmodernism, to apply to humans and their relationships, and interpret every interaction in the worst possible light. From critical race theory comes many ideas, formost being that to be white is to be born racist, and to be born black one is automatically oppressed and incapable of racism, while this is somewhat generalized example it is still fairly emblematic.

[Zamolxe]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
Trump is not savoir. It's called a real grassroots movement, unlike that fomented by the left. It's about systemic corruption on a scale closing in on insurmountable power. It is about the technocracy that seeks to dominate and dictate policy to governments and peoples all over the world. It is about as Americans call it, Liberty. It's as close to freedom the world has ever been able to dream. And it is a dream far from realization, and slipping further and further into wistful fantasy. Trump drew a line in the sand and invited freedom loving patriots to join the cause. His call is so loud and so clear that freedom loving people in other lands who had almost forgotten their own wish had their dreams rekindled - and their hope revitalized.

World-wide Systemic Corruption and the technocracy that supports it must be addressed, opposed, and ultimately defeated. Without Trump, we must find another champion to lead us in the charge. Such men and women are truly needles in a haystack. Who else is there?

And don't think this can be done by community opposition either. That did not work in China and it won't work here either. The technocracy is a monster, a massive behemoth with tentacles in every institution on the planet and enjoying the favor of elite friends with empires and global influence.

One side of the narrative has been effectively silenced - THEY SILENCED THE VOICE OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT! The technocracy muted the leader of the free world, wrangled him in legal battles, and threatened him with treason and perdition.

When they silenced him they silenced us, maybe we missed that?

Will we ever be heard again?

Maybe I'll meet you guys in the gulag detention camps the western world did not build by the thousands...

I completely agree with you, World-wide Systemic Corruption is rampant and it needs to be addressed... not today, but yesterday.

As you mentioned lines in the sand, my question is... how long do we wait for the promises to be fulfilled, for the war cries to actually lead to a battle... when do we cross the line from:
- "a champion to lead us in the charge"
to
- a con man, a grifter that uses empty rhetoric, populist demagogy to fulfill his own political fantasies and fill his own pockets

How much time do we have to wait to see him act according to his promises of "draining the swamp"?
When do we start thinking critically and realize that maybe it was just wishful thinking?
Accepting that we are wrong is the first step to moving forward, cognitive dissonance does not help at all with advancing to the next step of the fight.

Again, the purpose of this thread was to centralize the facts and after that, decide if he was a con-man or a champion.
After all, 4 years have passed, so what do we get when we tally up his achievements?


Just to make things clear, I do not support Biden or the democrats, but this discussion is about Trump and his accomplishments after 4 years in office.

[Ernie Nemeth]

His greatest accomplishment is the rallying call to all peoples of the world to resist the corruption and stand up for the truth.

His greatest accomplishment is calling **** as he sees it, without niceties. Like The Biden Crime Family, or The China Flu, or Antifa is a terrorist organization, or the corrupt media, as a few examples.

He modernized the armed forces, built the wall, brought troops home from endless wars, never started a war, revamped the veterans bill, established standard funding for minority advanced learning, peace deals in the middle east, space force, reworked the trade deals in the country's best interest, has a strong upstanding family, brought the vaccine in record time but also therapeutics. Had the best economic recovery of American history - twice! That's just the few off the top of my head.

[Old Student]

You don't know anything about corpratized diversity or racial sensitivity training?

I didn't say that. I do know about Critical Race Theory, I know where it was conceived, who conceived it, what it says, and all sorts of other goodies about it. I'm not a fan.

What I said was, the statement, "He defunded critical race theory," is nonsensical. It doesn't make any sense. It's like saying, "He scrapped funding for General Relativity."

I'm not ignorant of C.R.T., nor of Trump's disastrous term in office. When listing his accomplishments or supposed accomplishments, one of them can't be that he defunded a theory. Theories are not funded or defunded, and saying they are is nonsense.

[PurpleLama]

Posted by Old Student (here)

You don't know anything about corpratized diversity or racial sensitivity training?

I didn't say that. I do know about Critical Race Theory, I know where it was conceived, who conceived it, what it says, and all sorts of other goodies about it. I'm not a fan.

What I said was, the statement, "He defunded critical race theory," is nonsensical. It doesn't make any sense. It's like saying, "He scrapped funding for General Relativity."

I'm not ignorant of C.R.T., nor of Trump's disastrous term in office. When listing his accomplishments or supposed accomplishments, one of them can't be that he defunded a theory. Theories are not funded or defunded, and saying they are is nonsense.

He passed an executive order that basically banned it from the government and any company that contracts from the government. So, while Mike may have given up some clarity for the sake of brevity, I think the statement that Trump "defunded CRT" is not unfair to say.

Apologies for assuming that you meant that you were unfamiliar with these concepts, many people have heard of "diversity training" while having never heard of CRT nor what it entails.

Here you can read it for yourself.

[DeDukshyn]

I consider Trump a buffoon. The policies and changes that he has set forth have led things backwards in a lot of sense. What he has done - the changes he has made will only lead us back to where we were headed anyway, but what that has done is provide a disruption. A useful disruption to the globalists plans. He has bought us time to be able to help the masses see what is really going on in this world.

I think the concept that he is some saviour or working for the "light", or playing "4D chess" is complete and utter nonsense - a far exaggeration from what he has actually accomplished, but like I said, his disruptive buffoonery has bought us time - time needed to help the masses wake up.

From my view it really is as simple as that.

[ExomatrixTV]

• source

You can thank me posting this after you watched this video carefully.

cheers,
John

[Zamolxe]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
His greatest accomplishment is the rallying call to all peoples of the world to resist the corruption and stand up for the truth.

His greatest accomplishment is calling **** as he sees it, without niceties. Like The Biden Crime Family, or The China Flu, or Antifa is a terrorist organization, or the corrupt media, as a few examples.

He modernized the armed forces, built the wall, brought troops home from endless wars, never started a war, revamped the veterans bill, established standard funding for minority advanced learning, peace deals in the middle east, space force, reworked the trade deals in the country's best interest, has a strong upstanding family, brought the vaccine in record time but also therapeutics. Had the best economic recovery of American history - twice! That's just the few off the top of my head.

Thanks for the reply, this is indeed a list of accomplishments.

I agree that he expanded the Veterans Choice Program, built part of the wall (over 300 miles of wall have been built, though just 5 miles are new - and not paid by Mexico, rather, for example, by a 31% spending cut to the Environmental Protection Agency)

Also, I do believe that with his strong arm tactics he managed to rework a number of trade deals. But we do have to agree that this can't be dragged on forever, diplomacy has a certain meaning. You cannot unilaterally break previous agreements and expect that everyone will roll over for you.
In this way, he probably was very useful for the next administration, as he did what they wouldn't dare do.

But I don't agree with some points in the list:

Space force - he broke parts of the airforce and created a new Organizational Unit. I don't really see why this is a presidential achievement.

Regarding ME peace, there still is no plan on the horizon to end the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, he actually exacerbated it.

Regarding vaccines - I fail to see why this is his accomplishment.
The Trump administration announced Operation Warp Speed to help with vaccines on May 15, 2020, months after the start of the Phase 1 study and the original design of the vaccine by Moderna.
Also, Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine R&D Wasn't Part of 'Warp Speed' Program and it became available at the same time.
Meanwhile, other countries have developed vaccines during the exact same time-frame without Trump's help.
So what has Trump done exclusively regarding vaccines that makes this "his" accomplishment?
Besides that, I do not know of any therapeutics being developed through warp-speed, could you provide any info, as you mark this as his accomplishment?


But I don't see any of these points being remotely related to "fighting the deep-state"

[Zamolxe]

Regarding not starting wars - I do agree, but he did come close with Iran.

And here is a list of actions that don't really show him as anti-war:


"The Trump administration informed Congress that it would go ahead with $8 billion worth of arms sales to Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and the United Arab Emirates — despite congressional objections that it would lead to Saudis dropping bombs on civilians in Yemen."


Attacking syria with 59 Tomahawk missiles - killed approx 100 syrians


"Donald Trump has insisted that the US military presence in Syria is “only for the oil”, contradicting his own officials who have insisted that the remaining forces were there to fight Isis.
Following Trump’s earlier insistence that his administration was solely interested in “keeping” Syrian oil, the US military deployed mechanised military units to oil fields in the east of the country.
Trump Says U.S. Troops Stayed in Syria 'Because I Kept the Oil'
In the wake of President Donald Trump’s abrupt decision to remove U.S. troops from northeastern Syria — Trump has acquiesced in a different U.S. troop presence in Syria: near Kurdish-held oil fields.
This adjusted U.S. military presence in Syria has raised a range of concerns. Some are legal questions about a deployment seemingly focused, at least geographically, on another country’s natural resources. Others are messaging concerns, given how much this action “plays into toxic Middle Eastern conspiracy theories” of Americans’ desire to profit from Middle Eastern oil"

Trump administration helped GOP donors get Syria oil deal
"Rayburn also admitted that the Trump administration had actually pushed for Delta Crescent Energy — and no other companies — to receive permission to exploit Syrian oil."


His aggression towards Iran, airstrike that killed Qassim Suleimani. Threatening sites “important to Iran & the Iranian culture”.


"Trump Inherited the Drone War but Ditched Accountability"

"Trump's air strikes in Afghanistan dramatically increased civilian deaths: Report
The US's easing of restrictions on aerial strikes has led to an increase of attacks across the Middle East, Afghanistan and neighbouring countries"

"This administration has not only surpassed the previous one’s drone strike volume overseas, it has made the drone wars even more secretive, if that’s possible.
According to a 2018 report in The Daily Beast, Obama launched 186 drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan during his first two years in office. In Trump’s first two years, he launched 238."

And his most recent action (which has gone completely under the radar here on Avalon):
"President Donald Trump has pardoned four Blackwater security guards who were given lengthy prison sentences for killing 14 civilians in Baghdad in 2007, a massacre that caused international uproar"

[Ernie Nemeth]

Every action that opposes the plan of the deep state is fighting the deep state. The problem is that now we know that the deep state is far more pervasive and set in place than we had ever imagined. Thanks to Trump's efforts this truth has been highlighted, another accomplishment.

I will not enter a debate about the merits of my statements. Nit pick if you must. And divide us further, or not, as you see fit.

This is my response to any refutations: what are Biden's accomplishments, the unrivaled most popular President in America's history, by far? And as a counter, do you believe there was extensive election fraud? Because if not we are not on the same page or even in the same book.

Everything is on the line, maybe this is not evident to some as yet.

[Zamolxe]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
This is my response to any refutations: what are Biden's accomplishments, the unrivaled most popular President in America's history, by far?

First of all, I do not believe Biden has or will have any accomplishments against the deep state, I don't view him any more positively. And I do not like to use whataboutism in an argument.

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
Every action that opposes the plan of the deep state is fighting the deep state.

Even if we agree or not if the points on your list are accurate, I still don't see which of those are "actions that oppose the plan of the deep state"

I thought Avalon was a place safe for discussion or fact based debates. Why do you see fit to consider this as "nit picking" or "dividing you further"?

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
And as a counter, do you believe there was extensive election fraud? Because if not we are not on the same page or even in the same book.

Why would this be a counter? And if, let's say, I wouldn't consider there was extensive election fraud, would that disqualify me from a discussion?
Should all discussions be between people with the same point of view? Wouldn't this be dangerous, as in closing yourself in a bubble where you echo your own beliefs?

[42]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Zamolxe (here)

So I would like to know.. concretely, what makes you consider Trump as a savior figure?

I do appreciate your very civil question. The best simple answer may be this:

As I've posted several times, it's not because of who he is. It's because of who he's not.

I'd encourage you (or anyone else!) to read my two long and detailed personal Q&A posts here, quite carefully. There's a lot of information there.

1. #1182 (20 November)
2. #1207 (21 December)

Bill - a very civil reply i hope...i so far have tried to resist commenting on this topic as I am not a US citizen and I fundamentally despise politics, as politics is typically service to self (the politician) not service to others (the citizens).

Obviously government is essential to keep a country running, however...politics and politicians are different from government in that they are an unnecessary and tribal distraction; as this forum is witnessing!

You have posted several times that your position is that "it's because of who he's not". Patently, yesterday and for the last 4 years Trump has demonstrated that "what he is not" is fit for office.

Across the world, leaders have united in stating their dismay at his deplorable destruction of democracy. Republicans and Democrats alike are calling for his immediate removal from office. After Trump running a toxic 19 month campaign for election, US voting citizens made the choice to vote him in. Their choice came home to roost yesterday.

What Trump "is not" is fit for office. 25th amendment now.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Zamolxe, you have every right to any opinion, of course.

I just don't feel like debate right now. sorry

[Lunesoleil]

Posted by Strat (here)
I think we have a slight miscommunication. When I say I'm pro Trump I mean I prefer him over the alternative. He says and does dumb things and we've had other presidents that have done more for the country in worse situations. This is a very large topic and I'm trying to keep it brief so apologies if my 2 cents aren't very helpful.

Supporters of Maduro from Venezuela are not going to like Trump. There was also the installation of the border wall with Mexico, another argument to hate Trump or to increase the tax on the export of French wine. Do nothing against pollution, Trump is recognized as the most polluting on the planet, in reality other countries do little. better. In a few weeks, I became pro-Trump and don't know why, because I have this impression that this president is missing something. I read that Nancy Pelosi would have asked for his dismissal, afraid of what? Don't really know if anything will change before January 20th. It's been a long time since I believe in Santa Claus ...

[chrifri]

Posted by 42 (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Zamolxe (here)

So I would like to know.. concretely, what makes you consider Trump as a savior figure?

I do appreciate your very civil question. The best simple answer may be this:

As I've posted several times, it's not because of who he is. It's because of who he's not.

I'd encourage you (or anyone else!) to read my two long and detailed personal Q&A posts here, quite carefully. There's a lot of information there.

1. #1182 (20 November)
2. #1207 (21 December)

Bill - a very civil reply i hope...i so far have tried to resist commenting on this topic as I am not a US citizen and I fundamentally despise politics, as politics is typically service to self (the politician) not service to others (the citizens).

Obviously government is essential to keep a country running, however...politics and politicians are different from government in that they are an unnecessary and tribal distraction; as this forum is witnessing!

You have posted several times that your position is that "it's because of who he's not". Patently, yesterday and for the last 4 years Trump has demonstrated that "what he is not" is fit for office.

Across the world, leaders have united in stating their dismay at his deplorable destruction of democracy. Republicans and Democrats alike are calling for his immediate removal from office. After Trump running a toxic 19 month campaign for election, US voting citizens made the choice to vote him in. Their choice came home to roost yesterday.

What Trump "is not" is fit for office. 25th amendment now.

Dear 42
I am not a Trump fan and never was. I am not US citizen and, as you, did resist so far to comment on this topic. I am completely in agreement with your comment regarding politicians and their self service.

Nevertheless I have a few questions regarding your comment
1. What happened yesterday that showed us that Trump is not fit for office? Have I missed something?
2. Do you really believe that it is important what the World leaders state? After all, as you correctly mentioned, politics and politicians are typically for self service. Is it more important what the World leaders state or does it matter what the majority of voters voted for? (although not being a Trump fan I have no doubt at all that there was massive fraud and that the election was stolen)
3. Why do you believe that Trump is not fit for office? Do you believe Biden is fit for this task?

personally I believe that most politicians are not fit for office. Especially all those being interested mostly in self service only and all those that probably are corrupt or compromised (maybe most of them)

In that sense, most of Sakers comments on the following link, seem to be correct
http://thesaker.is/mind-blowing-hypocrisy/

[42]

Posted by chrifri (here)

Posted by 42 (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Zamolxe (here)

So I would like to know.. concretely, what makes you consider Trump as a savior figure?

I do appreciate your very civil question. The best simple answer may be this:

As I've posted several times, it's not because of who he is. It's because of who he's not.

I'd encourage you (or anyone else!) to read my two long and detailed personal Q&A posts here, quite carefully. There's a lot of information there.

1. #1182 (20 November)
2. #1207 (21 December)

Bill - a very civil reply i hope...i so far have tried to resist commenting on this topic as I am not a US citizen and I fundamentally despise politics, as politics is typically service to self (the politician) not service to others (the citizens).

Obviously government is essential to keep a country running, however...politics and politicians are different from government in that they are an unnecessary and tribal distraction; as this forum is witnessing!

You have posted several times that your position is that "it's because of who he's not". Patently, yesterday and for the last 4 years Trump has demonstrated that "what he is not" is fit for office.

Across the world, leaders have united in stating their dismay at his deplorable destruction of democracy. Republicans and Democrats alike are calling for his immediate removal from office. After Trump running a toxic 19 month campaign for election, US voting citizens made the choice to vote him in. Their choice came home to roost yesterday.

What Trump "is not" is fit for office. 25th amendment now.

Dear 42
I am not a Trump fan and never was. I am not US citizen and, as you, did resist so far to comment on this topic. I am completely in agreement with your comment regarding politicians and their self service.

Nevertheless I have a few questions regarding your comment
1. What happened yesterday that showed us that Trump is not fit for office? Have I missed something?
2. Do you really believe that it is important what the World leaders state? After all, as you correctly mentioned, politics and politicians are typically for self service. Is it more important what the World leaders state or does it matter what the majority of voters voted for? (although not being a Trump fan I have no doubt at all that there was massive fraud and that the election was stolen)
3. Why do you believe that Trump is not fit for office? Do you believe Biden is fit for this task?

personally I believe that most politicians are not fit for office. Especially all those being interested mostly in self service only and all those that probably are corrupt or compromised (maybe most of them)

In that sense, most of Sakers comments on the following link, seem to be correct
http://thesaker.is/mind-blowing-hypocrisy/

1. He clearly encouraged demonstrators to march and used inflammatory language that is inconsistent with discouraging violence
2. When a large number of world leaders ( former US allies who Trump has deliberately distanced with his America first policies) see the situation the same way (unacceptable and provocative) it is a data set worth considering
3. I make no claims that Biden is a better choice. I do claim, however, that Trump has done nothing to bring his country or his former allies to a better more harmonious alignment. He is a divider not an aligner. Disruptive, narcissistic and delusional to boot. I don't drink his Koolaid.

[Lunesoleil]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=6Yv80etxATs

Vidéo pro-Biden

Favorite video of Biden supporters, found on an astrologer's FB profile ... I understood why Trump's discussion was closed and reopened after the election. I'm also a member of a group, where I found out that they were pro-Biden ... there are a lot of videos like this on YouTube, which are not blocked, she Vote Him Away, these are active energies, like the rest and act in the shadows in the form of an influence ...