WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

**Zamolxe** · 19th February 2022 22:33

Posted by Malisa (here)
I also followed the instructions on that tweet and used the exact same site, oh surprise (not really) i got different results

Why are you doing this?

Of course you can modify anything once it's on your computer. Nobody is denying that.
Why are you showing something that you just told us you modified?

What is the metadata on the original video, from the official channels of Denis Pushilin and "Lugansk Information Center" once you download it (without modifying anything)?

This is getting outrageous.

I am inviting anyone reading this thread to do this and see for yourselves:

Download the videos from the original links from telegram, upload them to the metadata website and check what results you get.

These links are from the OFFICIAL telegram channels of
The State Information Agency "Lugansk Information Center"
and
Denis Pushilin the Head of State of the Donetsk People's Republic
video links:
https://t.co/NmlRKRWxqj
https://t.co/YXKt3dp4wh

metadata analyzer:
https://t.co/1Py94ugIQy

I've just tested this again and still the same results.

This is really cringe.

**Zamolxe** · 19th February 2022 23:01

Posted by Malisa (here)
The metadata on the video they uploaded came from they computer, not from the original video[/B][/U]

So either they are corrupt to the core, or inept and incompetent, ignorant of how tech works. Pick one of them

Oh so now I see your point.

You're suggesting that it's more plausible that both had their computers' times incorrectly configured, both had exactly the same offset - 2 days in advance. It's more plausible than the idea that they filmed this in advance.

That's what you're going with? Really grasping at straws here.

You do know that you basically can't connect to the internet if your computer's time is not updated, right?
Most webpages don't work if you don't use NTP (network time protocol). So by coincidence, both their computers had the same incorrect time and were not able to connect to the internet and nobody noticed in that office (how did they upload the videos I wonder).
And we're talking about the PCs of their tech guys, the ones that edit the videos and do any post production.

You don't have to put a spin on absolutely everything.

Later Edit:

Update on the explosion of DNR militia head’s car from yesterday in Dontesk.

**lake** · 19th February 2022 23:24

This is from AbemaTV which is from Japan and was posted today the 19th (unless the meta verse is wrong because I don't wear a watch?)

"Ukrainian authorities genocide residents" Russia submits report to the United Nations
Breaking news
2022/02/19 13:29

On the 18th, the US ambassador to OSCE (= European Security Cooperation Organization) Said that the Russian army, whatich was deployed in a siege of Ukraine as an analysis of the US government, reached a maxim of 190,000. .worldIt's the largest military mobilization in Europe since the war."

The U.S. government has concluded that the Russian government has carried out a cyber attack in Ukraine on the 15th。He points out that he is not only pretending to justify the invasion, but also substituting cyber attacks if they step into the invasion.

Meanwhile, it turns out that Russia had submitted a report to the United Nations that "Ukrainian authorities are genocide of its inhabitants."。This is a document by Russia addressed to the UN Secretary-General Guterres and members of the Security Council on the 16th, alleging war crimes in Ukraine。Claims in eastern Ukraine based on Russian research, "Ukrainian authorities are trying to eradicate Russian-speaking civilians" and others。

Since 2014, the Ukrainian army has bombed schools, hospitals, etc., killing thousands。In response to this report, at the Security Council meeting on the 17th, US Secretary of State Brinken criticized "Russia is pretending to be an invasion."。(ANN News)

https://times.abema.tv/articles/-/10015041

~~~~

Personally I do not know .... Everything seems to just be lies these days (one way or another)

edit to add .... translated by my browser as I do not read Japanese!

**Mashika** · 19th February 2022 23:34

Posted by Zamolxe (here)

Honestly, i wonder if you have a true opinion of your own anymore about anything in life

Why are you duplicating posts across threads? You barely have a real comment other than to post the media talking point

I'm going to be very honest to you, i won't help you in your mental masturbation effort

I like intelligent conversations, you don't seem to grasp that you have none so far

1. Posting a never ending stream of tweets and just repeating the talking point over and over is meaningless. You have no points of your own!
2. If you expect to show something to other people, be prepared to do it through your own words. So far none of that has happened here or anywhere else you copy/pasted the same tweets
3. Validate your 'evidence', you clearly have eaten the propaganda too much since you did not even bother to validate what you posted and got arrogant about it.

I don't discuss low level arguments meant for pawns. And you have clearly demonstrated that you just run and post anything you are told to post by your mind masters

Therefore, since you just did the same "one more time"

i'm going to just stop this non-conversation

I don't think you came to this thread to truly discuss the details, as you have clearly displayed a lack of will to discuss but just fill the thread with propaganda posts without any will on your side to reply properly except with more propaganda

I have proven you did that with the video date posts, that's not on me, that's on you because you were lazy. You should have confirmed that on your side before coming here and posting that foolishness

Be sure of something, if you post propaganda BS you will be called on it, it won't just go the way you think it would go. It will be inspected and called as soon as it's proven wrong, and that's on you and only you

I don't think you understand how much you have lowered your position/stance with those posts which were full of BS, you discredited yourself by posting disinformation. So now anything you say can be considered more disinformation, regardless of content, it will be dismissed since you have proven yourself to act as a disinfo agent (willingly or not)

But the worst part was the arrogance here, oh "how soon the turns have tabled"

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1483672

The video that started circulating yesterday on Russian media and telegram channels, spread by the separatist authorities - claiming it shows the Ukrainian army attempting to commit sabotage also seems to be fake.

Again the metadata

Video was created as late as 8th February

It is doctored and contains audio from other sources.

If this wasn't about them trying to start a war with these fake pretexts, it would be hilarious how incompetent they are creating this false flag.

"Only the Sith speaks in absolutes"..

"Sad music playing"

**Zamolxe** · 20th February 2022 00:04

FSB & GRU headquarters today - after witnessing the incompetence of the separatists' false flags.

**Mashika** · 20th February 2022 00:07

Posted by Zamolxe (here)
FSB & GRU headquarters today - after witnessing the incompetence of the separatists' false flags.

I'm so sad your education system failed you this much

"I don't have any valid arguments so i'm just going to post lame memes instead then i'll go leak my wounds"

Have to admit it is fun to bully you into your own path of oblivion

LMFAO!

ETA: I'm sorry but you are an open invitation for teasing and bullying. I don't think you understand how or why

But you don't understand that your actions are enabling murderers and the killing of innocents. Your hate towards Russia just because your country lost in WW2 is so blind and wrong that you don't get you are basically helping to kill people day by day, by enabling them and sharing this BS you can't stop posting

I'm going to stop now, bye!

**Zamolxe** · 20th February 2022 00:59

All you have left are personal attacks? Ad hominem is the last resort?

So now that you seem to have thrown down your weapons because you can't come up with any new spins, let's do a recap:

You say Ukraine will invade Donbass
I ask why now, precisely after 2 months of Russian buildup. Why not before, why not after russian troops return to base.
You: no coherent answer

I ask if you are saying that "Russian troops aren't massed on the borders of Ukraine? Some staging bases even as close as 17km?"
You: no answer

I provide hundreds of satellite images, vkontakte/tiktok photos videos of Russian deployments on Ukraine's borders
You: no answer

I ask for ANY satellite images, vkontakte/tiktok photos videos of Ukraine massing to invade Donbass
You: no answer

You provide a map of ceasefire violations mislabeling it as a map of Ukrainian army positions
I point out the discrepancies
You: no answer

You falsely state that an article is dated 2 days before
I mention that the article is clearly dated: Ukraine crisis 18 Feb, 16:01
You: no answer

I show that the 2 videos of the evacuation are filmed 2 days in advance using metadata that anyone can check
You come up with this excuse: "both had their computers' times incorrectly configured, both had exactly the same offset - 2 days in advance. It's more plausible than the idea that they filmed this in advance" - my favorite and most pathetic part of the whole debate.

I show that the false flag video of the ukrainian sabotage posted on the Narodnaya DNR Militia telegram channel is 100% doctored and faked - anybody can check the metadata
You: no coherent answer

I provide a historical list where Russia didn't care about civilians or self determination and their crackdown led to tens of thousands of civilian deaths (never forget Grozny)
You: no answer

I provide evidence that the explosion of the DNR militia head’s car is staged
You: no answer

All the while, you use straw man fallacies to attack any argument, never the substance, use whataboutism multiple times and keep going on tangents. Oh, and accuse me of supporting the neo-nazis in Ukraine and saying I'm against a little girl from your stories.
I ask for posts where I supported the neo-nazis or the Ukrainian government
You: no answer

This has been the least challenging debate I ever had. I just need to provide facts and you crumble. You don't even try to reply to the facts, sow any doubt, try to bring nuance in. You just never respond and go on tangents and use the lamest fallacies. And eventually concede defeat.

You're not very good at your job, are you?

Buh bye.

PS: This disinformation campaign is used to justify an invasion of Russia into Ukraine. This war will lead to massive loss of life, both civilians and military personnel. We all have to do whatever we can to bring light over the lies and try to impede these warmongering neocons however we can. Tens of thousands of lives are at risk. If you ask me, even letting Russia just annex whatever they want is better than them invading with full force.
These lies are comparable to the WMD narrative that pushed the Iraq invasion. All the people helping the disinformation campaign will have blood on their hands.
Hold them accountable!

**pabranno** · 20th February 2022 01:30

In my opinion, the tone of Zalmoxe’s perspective has for the most part been amenable and well argued.
I am not commenting on content or validity.
It’s clear Malisa is articulate (and always has been), informed, intelligent and above all passionate.
Zalmoxe has a different perspective.
And so we learn.
This excellent thread has flirted with ad hominem insulting attacks.
Please let’s keep the intelligent discourse going.
We all need to learn from this.
These are dangerous times

Incredibly informative thread,: my thanks to you all.

Pamela

**indiana** · 20th February 2022 01:44

I personally don't believe a wholesale invasion and occupation of all or most of Ukraine by Russia could be justified in any way. That's my take on it. It also has a strange feel to it. Like a script is being followed.

**Mashika** · 20th February 2022 01:52

Posted by pabranno (here)
In my opinion, the tone of Zalmoxe’s perspective has for the most part been amenable and well argued.
I am not commenting on content or validity.
It’s clear Malisa is articulate (and always has been), informed, intelligent and above all passionate.
Zalmoxe has a different perspective.
And so we learn.
This excellent thread has flirted with ad hominem insulting attacks.
Please let’s keep the intelligent discourse going.
We all need to learn from this.
These are dangerous times

Incredibly informative thread,: my thanks to you all.

Pamela

Yeah sorry for that, it was meant to extract something and put it forward, it did happen but i am considering unpacking it or not for everyone to see. I'm doubtful as it may not truly add anything of value to this thread

Sorry for the disruption

**Zamolxe** · 20th February 2022 01:57

Posted by indiana (here)
I personally don't believe a wholesale invasion and occupation of all or most of Ukraine by Russia could be justified in any way. That's my take on it. It also has a strange feel to it. Like a script is being followed.

I do pray that you are right and war will be avoided.

But all the signals are alarming.

I just saw this video from today and it made my stomach turn.

Warning: loud audio

You have to understand that Ukraine and Russia have the same military equipment. And painting a sign to tell friend from foe is the last step before starting an invasion + it also suggests they are considering large scale combat operations. The violence of that hasn't been seen anywhere in recent history.

If this is actually true, it's a very very bad sign.

**Mashika** · 20th February 2022 01:57

Posted by indiana (here)
I personally don't believe a wholesale invasion and occupation of all or most of Ukraine by Russia could be justified in any way. That's my take on it. It also has a strange feel to it. Like a script is being followed.

There is no purpose to 'an invasion' of that kind, no win whatsoever, it's just a tool of control for the general public

Zelensky, president of Ukraine, has, in a very gentle way, asked the US president to please just stop once and for all talking about an invasion, yet his voice is ignored by the US. That should tell something at least

https://www.rt.com/russia/549989-kie...dict-invasion/

Speaking on Saturday at the Munich Security Conference, Zelensky set out his view on the constant apocalyptic predictions that a full-blown invasion could be imminent.

“To help Ukraine, there is no need to constantly talk about possible invasion dates,” he insisted,

This definitely is not serving Ukraine in any way

The parliamentary faction leader of Ukraine’s ruling Servant of the People party, David Arakhamia, has also cast doubt that an offensive is imminent, instead commenting on the toll that constant incursion fears in the media have had on Kiev. According to him, the publication of speculation about an incoming Russian invasion is costing the country “two to three billion dollars every month.”

Playing the western game didn't turn out beneficial for Ukraine, so now they are even reconsidering retracting from the non-nuclear proliferation agreement they signed in the 90s

"Ukraine threatens to renounce its non-nuclear status"
https://www.rt.com/russia/549994-ukr...ce-memorandum/

In the end, it surely says a lot, at least to me, that the country that would be affected directly by this imaginary invasion constantly keeps claiming there is no invasion coming at all, and the US remains fixed on claiming there is one any minute now, 20+ times per day, regardless of what anyone in Ukraine's government says

**rgray222** · 20th February 2022 03:12

I think most of the boys in Europe can now agree that Vlad Putin has the largest d**k in Europe. He has taken it out and shaken it about for the entire world to see. I think most of the omnigender clan in North America can see that Biden is rattling his sabre because his member has experienced inevitable age and dementia shrinkage. The media and Biden's own political party are sounding the alarms for war even though they know it will never be fought. The ethos of the majority of Americans (90%+) is that they have no stomach for war, zilch, zero absolutely none. Putin is doing Biden a huge favour by taking the focus off of Biden's self-inflicted problems at home, ie crime, border, pandemic, inflation to name just a few.

The billion-ruble question is: How does this crisis end? Speculation over invasion scenarios has ranged from a massive, overwhelming air, sea, and land assault to a mix of cyber, special forces, and influence-based and/or actions that will not require combat missions. Should Putin not grasp the predicament he has imposed on himself, a limited move in the Donbas or seizing a land bridge into Crimea would seem to be the lowest-risk and lowest-cost option. He could then judge how NATO chooses to respond and wait. But Putin would almost certainly suffer the same consequences as if he took Kyiv and occupied much of the country.

Putin knows that an armed attack or aggressive use of force will make any chance of his achieving his priorities even less likely than landing an astronaut on the sun. He also knows that the costs to Russia and to him personally will be high and possibly unaffordable.

Assuming there is no military action, Putin has two easy choices and one dark horse option that only time will reveal.

First, he can prolong the crisis and maintain the buildup on the Ukrainian border. That would be expensive and wear down his forces. Staying on constant alert takes a toll on the military, the people back home and pocketbooks.

Putin could terminate the exercise with Belarus on February 20 as scheduled, draw his troops back from the Ukrainian border, claim victory, and continue to push for negotiations—arguing that as the West wrongly predicted an attack, it continues to fail to recognize Russian security interests and needs.

Russia will no doubt continue political and psychological pressure on Ukrainian President Zelenskyy to make concessions, either to accept the Minsk 2 agreement (despite its grant of semi-autonomy to the Donbas) or to suspend any request for NATO membership. And Russian “active measures,” such as disinformation campaigns, will continue to target Ukraine with the aim of eroding Zelenskyy’s standing and NATO solidarity by claiming “hysteria” over an invasion that never occurred.

This scenario suits Putin’s interests far better than an uncertain military adventure, which is why he will most likely choose it—and not because of anything uttered from a White House podium, no matter how much credit the administration will take for deterring war. You can bet that Biden will rattle that sabre in every conceivable direction to take credit for something that he had nothing to do with.

The one option that only time will reveal is that there is a much larger behind the scene agreement with China - this agreement could take the world to the brink of WWIII and checkmate the west like a deer in the headlights. China could invade Taiwan at the same time Putin invades Ukraine.

No matter how the crisis ends we will always know that Putin has the biggest d**k in Europe and maybe this is all that Vlad ever wanted people to know. That said he probably would have kept it zipped up and holstered if Trump had been President.

**Mashika** · 20th February 2022 05:12

Very sad to see this, but it was clear for many people right from the beginning of this "fake crisis" that this was going to happen

"Ukraine’s Western partners made billions on military hysteria - Ukrainian oppositioner"
https://tass.com/economy/1406511

According to Viktor Medvedchuk, the media campaign of fake reports about an imminent Russian invasion cost $12 billion to the economy of Ukraine

KIEV, February 20. /TASS/. Ukraine’s Western partners have earned billions on the military hysteria in Ukraine, entrapping the country in the "black hole of debt," Chairman of the Political Council of Ukraine’s Opposition Platform - For Life party Viktor Medvedchuk said.

"The Western partners earned billions on the military hysteria. Amid this military hysteria, the United States, the United Kingdom and other countries who helped Ukraine to resist the ‘imminent occupation’ managed to solve their domestic problems and earn good money. They pawned off unneeded military rubbish, sold locomotives at inflated prices, signed lucrative trade contracts," Medvedchuk wrote in his Telegram channel.

According to the politician, the media campaign of fake reports about an imminent Russian invasion cost $12 billion to the economy of Ukraine, and the financial support of about 4 billion euro, provided by the European Union, the United States, Canada and Japan, will not be enough to offset its losses.

"This sum will not cover the losses from this virtual war. Moreover, Western partners threw Ukraine into a practically bottomless black hole of debt," he said.

Finally the Ukrainian politicians are waking up, too bad it is so late to turn back, they are now in the pit and i don't see how they will just escape it. If they turn their backs to the US/UK a new coup will happen for sure, or an assassination

This is not news truly, it has happened everywhere else where a country suddenly goes through the same treatment

I would love to see the terms of those contracts, and how long they are valid for. And what will be delivered at the inflated prices. Need to go find them but probably there are tons of restrictions around them to prevent any leaks

**Baby Steps** · 20th February 2022 11:51

Here’s an interesting analysis of how possibly the gas equation fits with the strategic situation currently:

“It appears to be linked. Germany has been notably silent on nordstream and Biden bluster on closing it . Germany has not permitted arms flights to Ukraine in its airspace .

So the issue of gas is driving a wedge between NATO members , with more belligerence towards Russia from Poland and the UK and Germany being much quieter .

It appears that it all fits with Putins strategy to extract commitments on Ukraine’s non alignment with NATO. The nordstream pipeline reduces Ukraine’s importance as a conduit of Russian gas to the eu . In this respect Ukraine is a USA proxy and the Biden administration is colluding with this by trying to force the abandonment of Nordstream to preserve Ukraine’s importance and leverage over the EU. The USA has been blustering about nordstream for years and alot of that is because the USA wants to sell its own LNG to Europe , plus reducing Europes dependence on Russia

There is also the foul stench of corruption between the usa and Ukraine and one wonders what influence Ukraine has over the usa and Biden particularly . The evidence regarding hunter biden and Burisma is clear - Biden blackmailed Ukraine to sack the investigator who was about to uncover Hunters corruption , with a threat to withhold a government grant from the USA to Ukraine - the famous ‘ you are not getting the billion unless that man is sacked ‘ recording. What Kompromat does Ukraine hold over the Biden family - what other involvements have there been with crowdstrike, secret servers and the Clinton campaign in 2016. We shall see….

So in the above context you can see what chess game Putin may be playing - time the military threat against Ukraine to maximise pressure regarding gas shortages throughout Europe . It is likely that Putin has got a sense that Germany is not going to defend Ukraine and without Germany , large military assistance is unlikely .

It is likely that Germany has agreed to the idea of Ukraine remaining non aligned .

My perspective is that Germany probably understands Russia’s strategic concerns regarding NATO missiles being based in Ukraine , and anticipates formalisation of ukraines neutral buffer status , plus ukraines progression towards EU membership which Russia is unlikely to oppose .

This may be portrayed by atlanticists as perfidious Putin attempting to split NATO and succeeding in rebuilding The Russian sphere in defiance of fading U.S. influence . An alternative view would be that the USA attempt to trigger war and re establish usa hegemony over Europe as a prelude to the destabilisation , rape and dismemberment of Russia has been frustrated by the forces of peace and Eurasian cooperation led by Russia and Germany . It’s time the inhabitants of the continent learned to get along , and blocked any external ‘divide and rule’ machinations .“

**Bill Ryan** · 20th February 2022 12:57

This is light relief — sort of. A fight broke out on live Ukrainian TV, a journalist vs a pro-Russian politician. Human nature at its most primitive.

Remember the famous line in Dr. Strangelove: Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!

And a mod note, to take the opportunity:
A degree of fighting also seems to be present on this thread. Zamolxe is the provocateur, though he's always super-careful to be as polite as he can. The mods are watching carefully.

Enjoy the short video:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=io6gtk57W9o

**Zamolxe** · 20th February 2022 13:45

Hi, I just want to bring some context to this as you might not know who this guy is and it seems to have resulted in an uninformed conclusion.

Posted by Malisa (here)
According to Viktor Medvedchuk, the media campaign of fake reports about an imminent Russian invasion cost $12 billion to the economy of Ukraine

It's easy to read this wrongly if you don't have much knowledge about Ukrainian politics, but just want to give you some details about Viktor Medvedchuk:

Medvedchuk is considered an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom he has referred to as "a personal friend".[9] Putin is the godfather of Medvedchuk's daughter Daryna (born in 2004)

In December 2013, the Kyiv Post newspaper called Medvedchuk "the undisputed leader of Russia's fifth column in Ukraine."

On 11 May 2021 the Prosecutor General of Ukraine accused Medvedchuk of treason and attempted looting of national resources in (Russian annexed but internationally recognised as Ukrainian) Crimea. Medvedchuk has been under house arrest since 13 May 2021

Posted by Malisa (here)
Finally the Ukrainian politicians are waking up, too bad it is so late to turn back, they are now in the pit and i don't see how they will just escape it. If they turn their backs to the US/UK a new coup will happen for sure, or an assassination

So the claim that "finally ukr politicians are waking up", "turning their back to the US/UK" in relation to this specific politician doesn't really make a lot of sense, sorry to say that.

People reading your post might be led to think that Ukraine and its politicians are suddenly moving away from "the West", an unexpected shift.

But as I just pointed out, this guy is and always has been a Putin ally, there has been no shift in his position.

PS:
Wikipedia is a good english language resource for this, anyone can read his page and check the sources. Just some chapters:
Legal career and participation in political trials against Soviet dissidents
Relationship with Vladimir Putin
Accusations of involvement in Euromaidan suppression
Involvement in the 2014 separatist movements and Russo-Ukrainian War
Sanctions and criminal prosecution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Medvedchuk

**Open Minded Dude** · 20th February 2022 21:01

Another interesting article by T. Roeper about an ongoing dispute with a journalist colleague regarding the 'wars of aggression' of Russia in the (recent) past as shown in this list:

https://www-anti--spiegel-ru.transla..._x_tr_pto=wapp

(...) I do not want to go into what concerns the Soviet Union. Today's Russia is no more the Soviet Union than today's Federal Republic of Germany is not Nazi Germany. These were different systems and ideologies that cannot be equated with their successors today. In Russia - and Putin says this again and again - there is a consensus that the Soviet Union was a repressive state that also caused a lot of mischief due to its state ideology.

So let's take a look at the accusations made against today's Russia in the picture. This is about what concerns the "new Russia", as it is also called in Russia itself, i.e. the period since the end of the Soviet Union in December 1991. (...)

**Mashika** · 21st February 2022 00:15

So you still don't understand how you are being played with?

Please allow me to explain what just happened to you just now

I posted this knowing very well who he is, and i hoped you would know better than to immediately run to find anything against him you could use to discredit the person. I previously already told you to not do that as it just shows how easy to lead you are and how this is very low level of conversation, meant for lower level street monkeys

I'm playing you like a fiddle

and you can't even figure out how, this is actually sad and depressing and i'm sorry but here you are

Instead of discussing if he said some truth or not, you jumped directly into character assassination, and completely ignored anything else i quoted from him

Why did you do that? Simple answer is, because once again you are throwing rocks and sticks across the river

You don't have a personal opinion, it's just a stream of tweets and quotes from other people using you as their mouthpiece

And i just have proven it here.

Look how arrogant and butt hurt you are here

Posted by Zamolxe (here)
Hi, I just want to bring some context to this as you might not know who this guy is and it seems to have resulted in an uninformed conclusion.

It says so much about how you truly feel inside, you could barely contain yourself lmao

Here's another one of yours

It's easy to read this wrongly if you don't have much knowledge about Ukrainian politics

See? You played yourself into this position.

Doesn't look like you realise it yet, but i already told you before to don't go running so fast to post in a "look what i found!" way, less you may end up looking foolish. Yet you did not learned anything at all here

Here's what i said

But you don't think much when you're running to be the first to say "look what i found!!!!".. Lol, simple minds

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1483720

And you did it again

This is why there's no intelligent conversation going on and it's so boring that i won't keep going with it. This last post of yours was meant to be, i directed to you it, just to prove how easy to manipulate you are

Let me make it very clear: When i posted that, i knew all about that guy's past, you immediately did what i expected but hoped you would not do, and that is, to run search for anything you can find that will serve as material to discredit the person, while completely ignoring the message

And that's exactly where the screaming monkeys throwing rocks & sticks among other things across the river stand

I bet you came running back to this thread to post that, thinking you would make me look bad and insult me at the same time with your little passive aggressive remarks about me being ignorant of Ukrainian politics

See? Or not.. in any case, it's your problem to solve, not mine

Productive conversation, for people truly interested in the truth, would have involved this

Is Ukraine now in debt with the US/UK NATO?
If so, how much and for how long? What does these contracts require from Ukraine?
Who will benefit on each end, from the contracts and money/arms being sent across?
If Ukraine breaks those contracts, what does it say is the penalty?

Questions! Do you have any? Or just looking to put the blame on someone (or a country, perhaps

)

So, once again, the conversation is over, thanks for participating

Your full post quoted below