+ Reply to Thread
Page 13 of 1107 FirstFirst 1 3 13 23 63 113 513 1013 1107 LastLast
Results 241 to 260 of 22128

Thread: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

  1. Link to Post #241
    New Zealand Avalon Member pounamuknight's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th December 2018
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    44,701
    Thanked 1,196 times in 127 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Open Minded Dude (here)
    Another interesting article by T. Roeper about an ongoing dispute with a journalist colleague regarding the 'wars of aggression' of Russia in the (recent) past as shown in this list:



    https://www-anti--spiegel-ru.transla..._x_tr_pto=wapp
    For lazy & dumb people like me who can't be bothered clicking link to article pertaining to the complicated picture in German, provided by most excellent Open Minded Dude

    (Thomas Röper of Anti-Spiegal and his response to a journalist colleague)
    Quote The allegations in the picture

    I do not want to go into what concerns the Soviet Union. Today's Russia is no more the Soviet Union than today's Federal Republic of Germany is not Nazi Germany. These were different systems and ideologies that cannot be equated with their successors today. In Russia – and Putin says this again and again – there is a consensus that the Soviet Union was a repressive state that also caused a lot of mischief due to its state ideology.

    So let's take a look at the accusations made against today's Russia in the picture. This is about what concerns the "new Russia", as it is also called in Russia itself, i.e. the period since the end of the Soviet Union in December 1991.

    1988-1994 Nagorno-Karabakh War
    The conflict over the Nagorno-Karabakh region broke out in 1988 and was at times a hot war in the early 1990s before a ceasefire was negotiated in 1994 with the mediation of Russia. It is difficult to pinpoint a culprit, the conflict has its roots in the 19th century. The region, i.e. the Caucasus, is a patchwork quilt of countless smaller and larger ethnic groups and therefore a traditional powder keg.

    In the mixed-populated region of Nagorno-Karabakh, conflicts erupted between Christian Armenians and Islamic Azerbaijanis from 1988. As a result, Armenia won the war at that time and the Azerbaijanis were expelled from Nagorno-Karabakh. After that there was no reconciliation.

    This war is listed in the picture in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars", although Russia was not involved in the war at all.

    1991-92 South Ossetia War
    The war in question was also one of the civil wars that broke out in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union. The Ossetians and Abkhazians were part of the Georgian republic in the Soviet Union, but they never wanted to be part of an independent Georgian state. The reason is that in the course of the civil war after the October Revolution there were also conflicts between Georgians on the one hand and the Ossetians and Abkhazians on the other hand, in which thousands of Ossetians and Abkhazians were killed. Ossetia speaks of a genocide by the Georgians. Georgians then moved into the subsequently depopulated places.

    In the Soviet Union it didn't matter which Soviet republic a region belonged to, just as it doesn't matter whether a village in Germany belongs to Hesse or Lower Saxony. This only became important when Georgia became independent and the conflict broke out again.

    This is how the war started in 1991, during which the Ossetians fought to avoid falling under Georgian control. The war then ended, with South East Asia and Abkhazia becoming de facto (but not internationally recognized) independent from Georgia. The line of contact has been secured by Russian peacekeeping forces since 1992.

    This war is listed in the picture in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars", although Russia was not involved in the war at all.

    1992 Transnistrian War
    That too was a civil war in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union. The small former Soviet Republic of Moldova is now located between Ukraine and Romania and is a mixed multi-ethnic state. War broke out there in 1992 because the small region of Transnistria, which is home to a large number of Russians, did not want to join Moldova, where there were strong Romanian nationalist tendencies. By the way, volunteers from the Ukraine also came to help the Russians in Transnistria at that time, those were the times when the artificially created division between Ukrainians and Russians did not yet exist.

    The war ended when the Soviet 14th Army stationed in Transnistria split the factions. Then there was a ceasefire and since then Moldovan, Transnistrian and Russian peacekeepers have been patrolling the line of contact together.

    This war is pictured in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars" when Russia's sole role was to end the hostilities.

    1992-93 First Abkhazian War
    The same applies here as in the South Ossetia war. It was Georgia's conflict with the Ossetian and Abkhazian minorities.

    This war is listed in the picture in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars", although Russia was not involved in the war at all.

    1992 East-Progorodny conflict
    This conflict also belongs to the conflicts over Ossetia and Abkhazia. After all, the Caucasus is a melting pot of cultures and, above all, of the (small) peoples who sometimes fought each other when the Soviet Union collapsed. North Ossetia and Ingushetia are both parts of Russia, so it was an intra-Russian ethnic conflict in which Russian units intervened to stop the incursions of Islamist Ingush militants on Ossetians.

    This conflict is listed in the picture in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars", although it was an ethnic conflict between two peoples that Russian units ended.

    1992-97 Tajik Civil War
    Tajikistan was a Soviet republic that became independent after the collapse of the Soviet Union. In the civil war that followed, various currents (from former communists to pro-Western forces and Islamists) fought against each other. In 1994 there was a ceasefire that was supposed to be secured by Russian peacekeeping forces, but it didn't last. Peace was negotiated in Moscow in 1997.

    This war is listed in the picture in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars", although Russia was not involved in the war at all, but only an intermediary between the warring parties.

    1993 Georgian Civil War
    As seen in the conflicts over Ossetia and Abkhazia, Georgia was a Soviet republic that became independent after the collapse of the Soviet Union. In the course of the conflicts there were coups in Georgia and a civil war by various forces that wanted to take power in the young state.

    This Georgian civil war is listed in the picture in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars", although Russia was not involved in the war at all.

    1994-96 First Chechen War
    There are two perspectives on the Chechen war. The Western perspective speaks of the Chechen people's struggle for independence, the Russian perspective is different: it was by no means the Chechens who were fighting for their independence, but infiltrated Arab Salafists who, to quote the rebels at the time, wanted "an Islamic state, a caliphate “ wanted to build. These terms, which only became known in the West in 2012, when Arab Wahhabi Islamists established their regime of terror in Iraq and Syria, had been an issue in Russia since 1994.

    The aim of the Islamists was to gain control of the entire Caucasus, i.e. the Russian but Islamic region between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea.

    The war ended in 1996 with de facto autonomy for Chechnya, because the Russian army in Russia, which was chronically bankrupt under Yeltsin, was unable to assert itself against the Islamists who had immigrated.

    This war is pictured in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars" even though it was a conflict within the Russian state sparked by infiltrated foreign Islamists.

    1998 Second Abkhazian War
    It is not clear what the Second Abkhazian War is supposed to be. Abkhazia declared independence from Georgia in 1994 and confirmed this in a 1999 referendum. As with South Ossetia, there were always small skirmishes with Georgia, but I couldn't even find anything about a war that is said to have raged there in 1998 on Russian-language websites.

    This is listed in the picture in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars", although nothing seems to have happened at all, at best someone calls a small skirmish a "war".

    1999 Dagestan War and 1999-09 Second Chechen War
    The events of 1999 are listed as two wars in the image in the Reitschuster article, which is simply not true. In fact, the Second Chechen War began with an attack on Dagestan by the Islamists, who had controlled Chechnya since 1996, because they wanted to expand their "caliphate". I reported on the 20th anniversary of the events, the article can be found here.

    Otherwise, the same applies to the Second Chechen War as to the First Chechen War, except that this time Russia won the war. It is interesting how this was possible, as it belies the Western legend that the Chechens fought for their independence from Russia.

    Putin was persuaded by the "pro-Russian" Chechen leader Kadyrov (whose son is now President of Chechnya) to declare an amnesty. The Chechens, previously fearful of Russian prosecution for their involvement in the war, then switched sides. With the help of the local population, it was possible to expel the foreign Islamists who had infiltrated Chechnya.

    2002-04 Pankisi Gorge Crisis
    The Pankisi Valley is located in Georgia and is inhabited by Chechens, among others. The valley was a haven for gun and drug smuggling criminals in the early 2000s. Georgia has been pressured from abroad to take action. Incidentally, by no means only from Russia, but also from the USA, because Arabs from al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations were also hiding in the valley.

    When these terrorists fought in Chechnya, the US supported them, but when they settled in Georgia, which the US wanted to establish as an outpost against Russia (which it later became), the US moved against them.

    Incidentally, the Chechen who was shot in the so-called “Tiergarten murder” in Berlin also belonged to one of the Pankisi groups and he was also involved in Islamist terrorist attacks and organized crime. Russia has repeatedly requested his extradition from Germany, but this has always been rejected.

    This "war" (which wasn't one) is pictured in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars", although Russia was no more involved in the story than, for example, the USA, and although it is - also from from a Western point of view - acted around an internationally demanded action by Georgia against al-Qaeda and organized crime.

    2007 Ingushetia War
    This war never happened either. Instead, it is again one of the problems of the Caucasus and the Chechen war. In the wake of the nearby war in Chechnya, Islamists had a strong following in the Russian republic of Ingushetia. Even Der Spiegel wrote about Ingushetia and the situation there in 2008 :

    “After the war in neighboring Chechnya, it became a stronghold for armed Islamists. They shoot police officers and secret service agents almost every day, blow up their vehicles or fire grenades at government buildings. In the first half of 2008 alone, 70 police officers were killed in armed attacks in Ingushetia. (...) The Islamic militants are fighting for a "Caucasian Emirate" that is said to stretch from the Caspian to the Black Sea. The Islamists are also gaining ground in the neighboring republics of Kabardino-Balkaria, Karachay-Cherkessia and Dagestan. Also in Dagestan, with 2.6 million inhabitants the largest North Caucasus republic, assassinations are part of everyday life.

    Here, too, there can be no question of a “Russian war”, rather it was about the fight against Islamist terror in a constituent republic of Russia. Nevertheless, this "war" in the picture is listed in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars".

    2008 Caucasus War
    We are now familiar with the problems between Ossetia and Abkhazia on the one hand, and Georgia on the other. After Georgian President Saakashvili, who came to power through the Rose Revolution organized by Soros, struck nationalist tones and wanted to bring the areas back under Georgian control, the USA gave Georgia hope for NATO membership and fired Saakashvili in his anti-Russian and nationalist rhetoric .

    Saakashvili therefore believed that the US would come to the aid of Georgia in a war with Russia. That was a mistake.

    When Georgian troops first attacked the Russian peacekeeping forces in early August 2008 and then bombed residential areas of the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali for a whole night, Russian troops set off and when they were there a day later, the Georgian army didn't stand a chance . The war lasted only five days, and Russia even advanced into Georgian territory for a few days, destroying important military infrastructure there. Then the Russians withdrew.

    This version is also confirmed by the EU investigation report from 2009. It describes Georgia's attack as contrary to international law, but the Russian action as appropriate - only the Russian occupation of some parts of Georgia, which lasted a few days, is described as excessive, but covered by international law.

    This war is pictured in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars" even though Georgia started the war and even though the EU investigation concluded that Russia was only defending itself.

    since 2009 guerrilla warfare in the North Caucasus
    Here, too, it is not clear what exactly is meant by this. After the Chechen war was declared over in 2009, there is relative calm in the Caucasus. Due to the melting pot of peoples and religions, it will probably never be really quiet in the sense that we understand it in Central Europe, but there are no longer open combat operations there and there can be no question of a guerrilla war.

    This article explains how fragmented the Caucasus is .

    2010 riots in southern Kyrgyzstan
    Kyrgyzstan is also a former Soviet republic that became independent after 1991. The country is unstable and in 2010 there was rioting and a coup. It's just not clear what Russia is supposed to have to do with it. There were domestic problems.

    This "war" is listed in the picture in the Reitschuster article as an example of "Russian wars", although there was no war at all, but it was a coup that Russia had nothing to do with.

    2010-2012 uprising in Tajikistan
    This is another example of "wars" that never happened. It is not clear which "uprising the Tajikistan" is referred to, because the country was quite stable between 2010 and 2012. Anyone looking online for events from that time in Tajikistan will find reports about construction projects, an agreement with China in a border dispute and a few other events, but nothing about an uprising that, according to the picture Reitschuster linked, spanned the country for two years should have shaken for a long time.

    Nonetheless, the image in the Reitschuster article lists it as an example of "Russian wars."

    since 2011 Syria
    This is also disinformation, because Russia is active in Syria, but only since 2015. In 2011 it was the USA that started the war in Syria. If this is new to you, you can read about it here. The USA started the Syrian war with the CIA operation "Timber Sycamore", which the German media has not reported on to this day, although the documents in Washington were released years ago.

    2014 Crimean Crisis
    The last “Russian war” pictured in the Reitschuster article concerns the 2014 Crimean crisis, which resulted in Crimea reuniting with Russia. Since I have already written a great deal about this, I will skip it here and refer to this article in which I have reproduced the events of spring 2014 in minute detail.

    Conclusion
    I really appreciate the work Boris Reitschuster is doing on the Covid-19 issue. He is definitely one of the best journalists in Germany on this subject. However, I totally disagree with him about Russia, and this image of “Russian wars” shown by Reitschuster in his article is a striking example of why, as it suggests something (namely, Russia's alleged aggressiveness) that is not there. At least the examples given in the picture are all refutable and the picture is nothing more than opinion making based on untruths. And opinion-making is, by definition, not good journalism.

    It is a pity that Reitschuster, who works so well with facts and, above all, sources in his reporting on Corona, takes a different approach when it comes to Russia and, for example, posts such pictures instead of bringing facts backed by sources]

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to pounamuknight For This Post:

    Ewan (21st February 2022), Mashika (21st February 2022), Michel Leclerc (22nd February 2022), Open Minded Dude (21st February 2022), Reinhard (21st February 2022)

  3. Link to Post #242
    Romania Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    22nd November 2013
    Posts
    163
    Thanks
    57
    Thanked 501 times in 122 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    So you still don't understand how you are being played with?

    Please allow me to explain what just happened to you just now

    I posted this knowing very well who he is, and i hoped you would know better than to immediately run to find anything against him you could use to discredit the person. I previously already told you to not do that as it just shows how easy to lead you are and how this is very low level of conversation, meant for lower level street monkeys

    I'm playing you like a fiddle and you can't even figure out how, this is actually sad and depressing and i'm sorry but here you are

    Instead of discussing if he said some truth or not, you jumped directly into character assassination, and completely ignored anything else i quoted from him

    Why did you do that? Simple answer is, because once again you are throwing rocks and sticks across the river

    You don't have a personal opinion, it's just a stream of tweets and quotes from other people using you as their mouthpiece

    And i just have proven it here.

    Look how arrogant and butt hurt you are here
    Quote Posted by Zamolxe (here)
    Hi, I just want to bring some context to this as you might not know who this guy is and it seems to have resulted in an uninformed conclusion.
    It says so much about how you truly feel inside, you could barely contain yourself lmao

    Here's another one of yours
    Quote It's easy to read this wrongly if you don't have much knowledge about Ukrainian politics
    See? You played yourself into this position.

    Doesn't look like you realise it yet, but i already told you before to don't go running so fast to post in a "look what i found!" way, less you may end up looking foolish. Yet you did not learned anything at all here

    Here's what i said
    Quote But you don't think much when you're running to be the first to say "look what i found!!!!".. Lol, simple minds
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1483720

    And you did it again

    This is why there's no intelligent conversation going on and it's so boring that i won't keep going with it. This last post of yours was meant to be, i directed to you it, just to prove how easy to manipulate you are

    Let me make it very clear: When i posted that, i knew all about that guy's past, you immediately did what i expected but hoped you would not do, and that is, to run search for anything you can find that will serve as material to discredit the person, while completely ignoring the message

    And that's exactly where the screaming monkeys throwing rocks & sticks among other things across the river stand

    I bet you came running back to this thread to post that, thinking you would make me look bad and insult me at the same time with your little passive aggressive remarks about me being ignorant of Ukrainian politics

    See? Or not.. in any case, it's your problem to solve, not mine

    Productive conversation, for people truly interested in the truth, would have involved this
    1. Is Ukraine now in debt with the US/UK NATO?
    2. If so, how much and for how long? What does these contracts require from Ukraine?
    3. Who will benefit on each end, from the contracts and money/arms being sent across?
    4. If Ukraine breaks those contracts, what does it say is the penalty?
    Questions! Do you have any? Or just looking to put the blame on someone (or a country, perhaps )

    So, once again, the conversation is over, thanks for participating

    Your full post quoted below
    Hi Malisa,

    It seems you are confused again, let me explain.

    Character assassination, or ad hominem is when you attack the person making a claim, instead of the merit of his argument.

    Never in my post did I discuss his argument or tried to counter it (more on that later).

    I only discussed your conclusion that ukrainian politicians are shifting away from the west while only providing one argument for that: this guy's critical view of "the west". I only showed that this politician hasn't changed his position at all.

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    Finally the Ukrainian politicians are waking up, too bad it is so late to turn back, they are now in the pit and i don't see how they will just escape it. If they turn their backs to the US/UK a new coup will happen for sure, or an assassination
    As your conclusion was based on only this argument, and I showed that this argument is flawed, it results that your conclusion is flawed.

    You can find any other ukr politician that was pro-west in the past and now against the west - and your conclusion could be held up. But you were not thorough and completely undermined your purpose.

    Also, regarding "character assassination". All I did in my post was point out that he is aligned with Putin and is also at odds with the Ukrainian government (he is targeted by investigations). I never said that makes him good or bad. It was only you that implied that being an ally of Putin is inherently degrading. Do you know something that we don't?


    Now, let's discuss his argument:
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    According to Viktor Medvedchuk, the media campaign of fake reports about an imminent Russian invasion cost $12 billion to the economy of Ukraine
    This might shock you.... I somewhat agree with it. Yes, these past days have surely inflicted economic damage on Ukraine. The US evacuating its embassy gives a strong message to the markets, causing Ukraine to lose money, one way or another.

    Now, the figure of "$12 billion"... I hope he also provides documents and research to back his claim and not just pulling a number out of thin air.


    What I don't agree with is the statement that "the economic damage is caused by the West".

    Let's try this thought experiment:

    Imagine there's an earthquake off the coast of Japan. A tsunami alert is triggered.
    The japanese authorities send out an emergency message asking everyone to leave their farms/factories/offices and head for high ground.
    By halting all production, there certainly is an economic impact.

    Now, who exactly is to blame for this economic impact?

    Is it the japanese authorities that sent out the emergency message?
    Or is it the earthquake / possible tsunami?

    As a side note, I for one value life more than money.

    If a family member or loved one dies because they didn't evacuate in time, believe me, you don't care at all about the $12 billion cost to your economy.


    If you didn't understand the analogy let me explain:

    In our case, the earthquake is the Russian build up - there is no more doubt about that (I provided hundreds if not thousands of images/videos)
    The tsunami is the potential invasion of Russia into Ukraine
    The emergency message is "the West" evacuating their embassies because of a potential invasion.

    Right now, the earthquake has certainly happened.
    We don't know for sure if the tsunami will come or not.


    Also, as a side note, that's a very capitalist thing for him to say, basically placing profits over people.

    See? Only now have I discussed his argument. And I never brought up his character in this discussion. Because that would be irrelevant.

    So no, this was not character assassination. I think that I have thoroughly refuted that.
    Again, you seem to not grasp basic concepts. Let me know if I need to explain anything else.
    Last edited by Zamolxe; 21st February 2022 at 10:05.

  4. Link to Post #243
    Romania Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    22nd November 2013
    Posts
    163
    Thanks
    57
    Thanked 501 times in 122 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    As I have just proven that you completely misrepresented my post, wilfully or unwilfully... and launched into another tirade against me, I will be waiting for your apology and retraction.

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    you are being played with
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    how easy to lead you are
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    very low level of conversation
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    lower level street monkeys
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    I'm playing you like a fiddle
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    this is actually sad and depressing and i'm sorry but here you are
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    once again you are throwing rocks and sticks across the river
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    You don't have a personal opinion, it's just a stream of tweets and quotes from other people using you as their mouthpiece
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    arrogant and butt hurt you are
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    looking foolish
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    you did not learned anything at all here
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    there's no intelligent conversation
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    how easy to manipulate you are
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    screaming monkeys throwing rocks & sticks among other things across the river
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    your little passive aggressive remarks

    All of this was just from the last post, there's more in the previous ones.


    And they say that I'm the provocateur....


    Later edit:
    Oh, I forgot to answer your questions, my bad.

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    1. Is Ukraine now in debt with the US/UK NATO?
    2. If so, how much and for how long? What does these contracts require from Ukraine?
    3. Who will benefit on each end, from the contracts and money/arms being sent across?
    4. If Ukraine breaks those contracts, what does it say is the penalty?
    Answers inline, bolded
    1. Is Ukraine now in debt with the US/UK NATO? No, they are not in debt with US/UK NATO. They are now in debt with the massive corporations (banking, arms manufacturers, etc) that also have immense power over the US/UK/NATO governments
    2. If so, how much and for how long? Um, I dunno... probably a lot and for a long time What does these contracts require from Ukraine? I dunno, probably require Ukraine to pay them money?
    3. Who will benefit on each end, from the contracts and money/arms being sent across? The corporations from point 1?
    4. If Ukraine breaks those contracts, what does it say is the penalty? Have no idea, surely they were written to the benefit of the corporations, not Ukraine
    Last edited by Zamolxe; 21st February 2022 at 11:00.

  5. Link to Post #244
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    38,318
    Thanks
    271,453
    Thanked 511,101 times in 36,856 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    For anyone who may be interested, there's an RT livestream right now awaiting Putin's promised televised statement this evening (now nearly 9pm in Moscow) re the independence of the two breakaway republics of Donetsk and Luhansk in eastern Ukraine.

    I'd personally bet quite a lot that the following is correct. And I'd also bet that their functional independence will be established (and reluctantly accepted by the rest of the world) without a full-scale war breaking out.

    https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/statu...77256421138436



  6. The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Alan (21st February 2022), Ewan (21st February 2022), gord (21st February 2022), Gwin Ru (21st February 2022), Hym (22nd February 2022), indiana (21st February 2022), Inversion (21st February 2022), Jamie (21st February 2022), kudzy (22nd February 2022), Mare (21st February 2022), Mashika (21st February 2022), mizo (21st February 2022), pabranno (21st February 2022), Sadieblue (21st February 2022), Spiral (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022), Yoda (22nd February 2022)

  7. Link to Post #245
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    38,318
    Thanks
    271,453
    Thanked 511,101 times in 36,856 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ...And I'd also bet that their functional independence will be established (and reluctantly accepted by the rest of the world) without a full-scale war breaking out.
    https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status...21979227762697

  8. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Ewan (21st February 2022), Gwin Ru (21st February 2022), Hym (22nd February 2022), kudzy (22nd February 2022), Mashika (21st February 2022), pabranno (21st February 2022), Sadieblue (21st February 2022), Spiral (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022), Yoda (22nd February 2022)

  9. Link to Post #246
    Romania Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    22nd November 2013
    Posts
    163
    Thanks
    57
    Thanked 501 times in 122 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Russia stated that this morning Ukrainian soldiers invaded its borders and that 2 BMPs and 5 Ukrainian servicemen were neutralized.

    The following 2 videos were released:



    Special forces sabotage units wearing helmet cams that would incriminate them if caught...


    Seems that multiple people have managed to geolocate the videos using google maps and also wild-fire detecting satellites (hats off to the person that had that idea). Incredibly, both match to the same location that is inside the separatist territories.
    So, if true, it looks like another poorly executed false flag.





    You can check the evidence for yourselves and draw your own conclusions:
    https://goo.gl/maps/TvLcAMPVYPUCDQQb6
    https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov...@38.3,47.2,11z

  10. Link to Post #247
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 28,025 times in 3,339 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Interesting article about how Ukraine's army is being used to steal money from Ukraine, while delivering old/broken/obsolete arms and equipment

    "APER TIGER OF THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX"
    https://ukr-leaks.org/ru/Investigati...nogo-kompleksa
    Quote The reason for such a deplorable state of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex lies in a truly phenomenal level of corruption. It is noteworthy that European "partners" of Nezalezhnaya were often involved in criminal schemes. Under P. Poroshenko, the military industry ended up in the hands of oligarchs associated with him, such as O. Gladkovsky (Svinarchuk), S. Pashinsky and their relatives.

    Under the strict guidance of these "outstanding" figures in the countries of Eastern Europe, decommissioned equipment of the Warsaw Pact era was bought up at inflated prices, significant budget sums were allocated to non-core enterprises, and the development of their own samples of military equipment, which turned out to be a "crooked" modification of Soviet samples, was generously funded. And with each transaction, with each unit of weapons, the "patrons" received a solid "profit".
    Mirrored here
    https://en.news-front.info/2022/02/1...he-leadership/
    Tired

  11. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    Ba-ba-Ra (21st February 2022), gord (22nd February 2022), Hym (21st February 2022), Inversion (21st February 2022), pabranno (21st February 2022)

  12. Link to Post #248
    Avalon Member I am B's Avatar
    Join Date
    20th January 2021
    Posts
    388
    Thanks
    1,756
    Thanked 3,436 times in 384 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    I just listened to the Rogan-Nawaaz interview. And his take on this conflict seems SO spot on. Highly recomended.

    War on Ukraine (not even war, instability as it is) would create even more shortages in the west. Energetic and foods. Shortages would create riots, and riots would create the acceptation of digital currency with purchases limitations to "avoid" those riots, and have us all eating bug burgers, and Social Credit.

  13. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to I am B For This Post:

    Ewan (21st February 2022), gord (22nd February 2022), Inversion (21st February 2022), Jamie (21st February 2022), jaybee (21st February 2022), Mashika (21st February 2022), pabranno (21st February 2022), Spiral (21st February 2022)

  14. Link to Post #249
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    38,318
    Thanks
    271,453
    Thanked 511,101 times in 36,856 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Putin has just now (a minute ago) formally recognized the sovereignty of Donetsk and Luhansk. That was his closing statement in an hour-long live televised address.

  15. The Following 18 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Ewan (21st February 2022), gord (22nd February 2022), Gwin Ru (21st February 2022), Hym (21st February 2022), I am B (21st February 2022), Inversion (21st February 2022), Jamie (21st February 2022), jaybee (21st February 2022), Johnnycomelately (21st February 2022), justntime2learn (21st February 2022), kudzy (22nd February 2022), Mashika (21st February 2022), mizo (21st February 2022), pabranno (21st February 2022), pyrangello (21st February 2022), Spiral (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022), Yoda (22nd February 2022)

  16. Link to Post #250
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    38,318
    Thanks
    271,453
    Thanked 511,101 times in 36,856 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    A screenshot from the RT livestream. These are flags and fireworks in Donbass... not mortar fire.


  17. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Ewan (21st February 2022), ExomatrixTV (21st February 2022), gord (22nd February 2022), Gwin Ru (21st February 2022), Hym (22nd February 2022), Johnnycomelately (21st February 2022), justntime2learn (21st February 2022), kudzy (22nd February 2022), Mashika (21st February 2022), pyrangello (21st February 2022), Spiral (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022), Yoda (22nd February 2022)

  18. Link to Post #251
    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Language
    English, Dutch, German, Limburgs
    Age
    59
    Posts
    29,305
    Thanks
    43,541
    Thanked 164,080 times in 27,320 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    • Putin To Recognize Eastern Parts Of Ukraine As Independent States:
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

  19. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to ExomatrixTV For This Post:

    Ewan (21st February 2022), Hym (22nd February 2022), Jamie (21st February 2022), jaybee (21st February 2022), Johnnycomelately (21st February 2022), Mashika (21st February 2022), Spiral (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022)

  20. Link to Post #252
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 28,025 times in 3,339 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Today i'm very happy, but also there is sadness for those who are not here today to see their dream come true

    "For them we drink"

    Tired

  21. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (21st February 2022), Ewan (21st February 2022), ExomatrixTV (22nd February 2022), gord (22nd February 2022), Gwin Ru (21st February 2022), Hym (22nd February 2022), Jamie (21st February 2022), jaybee (21st February 2022), justntime2learn (21st February 2022), Spiral (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022)

  22. Link to Post #253
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    38,318
    Thanks
    271,453
    Thanked 511,101 times in 36,856 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    An interesting aside, though rather off-topic on this thread.

    I just heard an analyst on RT comment that in Putin's very articulate, fluent and detailed hour-long address, much of it about Soviet, European and Russian history, it appeared to be all ad hoc and without the use of a teleprompter or cue cards. (I listened to the whole thing. But of course, it would take a Russian speaker to know that, as one can't tell from the simultaneous English overdubbed translation.)

    If that's the case, to a large extent it showcases Putin's political and intellectual mastery. Especially in comparison with Biden, who [sometimes] can't even remember Obama's name or his own personal history. (Not a joke! That really seems to be true, based on a number of recent on-record speeches.)

    There seems little doubt that Putin knows exactly what he's doing and is playing his cards (or his chess moves) with a high degree of skill, consideration and judgment. The response from North American and European leaders so far has all been in swift identical lockstep. That includes an immediate statement of condemnation from Justin Trudeau.

    That alone may tell us something about the way the globalist/WEF controllers regard NATO and Ukraine (and/or perhaps the 'Great Reset' desirability of a major war). It has to be possible that all this is choreographed — including Putin's actions — but I somehow don't think so. I suspect that China/Xi is well under the globalists' control, but Putin may be an inconvenient independent wild card.

    My provisional position: if Trudeau starts condemning something anywhere in the world, then (a) he's almost certainly speaking from script under high-level orders, and therefore (b) what he's opposing is probably a good thing.


  23. The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    ExomatrixTV (22nd February 2022), Gwin Ru (21st February 2022), holcaul (21st February 2022), Hym (22nd February 2022), jaybee (21st February 2022), justntime2learn (21st February 2022), kudzy (22nd February 2022), leavesoftrees (22nd February 2022), Mashika (21st February 2022), meat suit (21st February 2022), Michel Leclerc (22nd February 2022), mizo (21st February 2022), Spiral (21st February 2022), T Smith (27th February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022), Yoda (22nd February 2022)

  24. Link to Post #254
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 28,025 times in 3,339 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Some people should get off the internet, for their own good


    He forgot, or doesn't know about this?
    "KIEV AUTHORITIES OPENLY SAY THAT UKRAINE WILL NOT IMPLEMENT THE MINSK AGREEMENTS"
    https://www.donbass-insider.com/2022...sk-agreements/
    Quote Confirming what Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said in spring 2021, Alexey Danilov says that the Minsk agreements signed in 2015 must be rewritten because “the fulfilment of the Minsk agreement means the country’s [Ukraine – translator’s note] destruction“.

    “When they were signed under the Russian gun barrel — and the German and the French watched — it was already clear for all rational people that it’s impossible to implement those documents,” says the secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine.
    So now, after Ukraine openly said they were not going to implement the agreements that would have solved this 6/7 years ago, they are now blaming Russia for stepping in and doing something about this issue? They had 7 years to implement this or negotiate, they did not do anything about it, and now that they miscalculated and lost their step, suddenly the agreements are important and is Russia who is not respecting them. This is preposterous and hypocritical
    Tired

  25. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (21st February 2022), Gwin Ru (21st February 2022), Hym (22nd February 2022), jaybee (21st February 2022), justntime2learn (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022)

  26. Link to Post #255
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 28,025 times in 3,339 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    An interesting aside, though rather off-topic on this thread.

    I just heard an analyst on RT comment that in Putin's very articulate, fluent and detailed hour-long address, much of it about Soviet, European and Russian history, it appeared to be all ad hoc and without the use of a teleprompter or cue cards. (I listened to the whole thing. But of course, it would take a Russian speaker to know that, as one can't tell from the simultaneous English overdubbed translation.)

    If that's the case, to a large extent it showcases Putin's political and intellectual mastery. Especially in comparison with Biden, who [sometimes] can't even remember Obama's name or his own personal history. (Not a joke! That really seems to be true, based on a number of recent on-record speeches.)

    There seems little doubt that Putin knows exactly what he's doing and is playing his cards (or his chess moves) with a high degree of skill, consideration and judgment. The response from North American and European leaders so far has all been in swift identical lockstep. That includes an immediate statement of condemnation from Justin Trudeau.

    That alone may tell us something about the way the globalist/WEF controllers regard NATO and Ukraine (and/or perhaps the 'Great Reset' desirability of a major war). It has to be possible that all this is choreographed — including Putin's actions — but I somehow don't think so. I suspect that China/Xi is well under the globalists' control, but Putin may be an inconvenient independent wild card.

    My provisional position: if Trudeau starts condemning something anywhere in the world, then (a) he's almost certainly speaking from script under high-level orders, and therefore (b) what he's opposing is probably a good thing.

    I have seen several of his interviews, and even if i disagree with Putin in lots of ways and things i do agree he is like that

    There have been several times he derails the speech or goes on tangents and he remains articulate and very focused, even when he makes jokes in the middle of a serious conversation, just because something happened suddenly, then 10 minutes later he returns to the original topic and keeps going with no problem

    It is well known that you can't win a debate against Putin, he will always be 3 steps ahead, which is annoying but have to admit is amazing as well
    Last edited by Mashika; 21st February 2022 at 21:54.
    Tired

  27. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (21st February 2022), Deux Corbeaux (22nd February 2022), Gwin Ru (21st February 2022), Hym (22nd February 2022), jaybee (21st February 2022), justntime2learn (21st February 2022), mizo (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022)

  28. Link to Post #256
    UK Avalon Member mizo's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th September 2021
    Location
    UK -North East
    Language
    English
    Age
    63
    Posts
    593
    Thanks
    2,524
    Thanked 6,372 times in 584 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    As dates go, tomorrow being 22/02/2022.

    Will these developments tomorrow (today in Russia) be another one of those significant numerological date events?



    Name:  Screenshot 2022-02-21 220425.png
Views: 307
Size:  5.7 KB - unintentional
    Last edited by mizo; 21st February 2022 at 22:07. Reason: added image

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mizo For This Post:

    Hym (22nd February 2022), jaybee (21st February 2022)

  30. Link to Post #257
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 28,025 times in 3,339 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    I suppose this means bad news for Taiwan and Hong Kong's future?



    Perhaps this person needs to become aware of this

    "Self-determination"
    https://unpo.org/article/4957#:~:tex...20development.
    Quote Essentially, the right to self-determination is the right of a people to determine its own destiny. In particular, the principle allows a people to choose its own political status and to determine its own form of economic, cultural and social development
    Clearly there is a double standard at work here, from the US and "partners"
    Last edited by Mashika; 21st February 2022 at 22:07.
    Tired

  31. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    Hym (22nd February 2022), Inversion (21st February 2022), mizo (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022)

  32. Link to Post #258
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    38,318
    Thanks
    271,453
    Thanked 511,101 times in 36,856 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    @Malisa, I'd like to ask for your opinion:

    Quite a few are saying that after this "chess move", Russia can now justify entering the region with the claim of giving military aid to the "new states". (Or, just maybe, protecting their borders, or safeguarding the movement of Donbass civilians if they want to cross to safety in Russia.)

    Do you think this is likely? If there's an escalation, how might this happen? Or will nothing at all happen now except for a lot of North American and European political rhetoric?

  33. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    happyuk (22nd February 2022), Hym (22nd February 2022), Inversion (21st February 2022), justntime2learn (21st February 2022), kudzy (22nd February 2022), Mashika (21st February 2022), mizo (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022), Yoda (22nd February 2022)

  34. Link to Post #259
    Ireland Avalon Member indiana's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th January 2011
    Location
    Eire
    Age
    53
    Posts
    100
    Thanks
    1,018
    Thanked 578 times in 82 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    The Putinator strikes again. A masterful stroke. I hope those who identify as being Ukrainian living inside the now autonomous regions will be well treated. Of course there's a considerable amount of water yet to flow under this particular bridge.

  35. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to indiana For This Post:

    Hym (22nd February 2022), Mashika (21st February 2022), mizo (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022)

  36. Link to Post #260
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 28,025 times in 3,339 posts

    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    @Malisa, I'd like to ask for your opinion:

    Quite a few are saying that after this "chess move", Russia can now justify entering the region with the claim of giving military aid to the "new states". (Or, just maybe, protecting their borders, or safeguarding the movement of Donbass civilians if they want to cross to safety in Russia.)

    Do you think this is likely? If there's an escalation, how might this happen? Or will nothing at all happen now except for a lot of North American and European political rhetoric?
    Hi

    I believe it could be possible, but not as a direct intervention.

    What i believe could happen is this, recognising these regions as independent may allow to send help in several forms, one of them could be sending a group of peace keepers, such as what happened in Kazakhstan, it would be a group of nations sending this help and it would be temporary. But it would definitely cause a stop for some of the current attacks, because it would involve several countries and doing any kind of attack against them would mean declaring war to all of them

    This also places Donbass in a similar situation as Taiwan, so they could receive military help just as the US does with Taiwan. As long as it is for defensive use only and while being monitored about the usage and location of those arms.

    In that way i think it is possible and it will very likely happen soon

    There was an article posted yesterday but recently got updated, i have not yet found more information about this. The title seems to have been updated around half an hour ago, but the content is from a different article from yesterday

    "LIVE UPDATES: Russian President Orders Peacekeeping Mission in DPR, LPR"
    https://sputniknews.com/20220221/liv...093217700.html
    Last edited by Mashika; 21st February 2022 at 22:16.
    Tired

  37. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (21st February 2022), Hym (22nd February 2022), justntime2learn (21st February 2022), Vicus (22nd February 2022)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 13 of 1107 FirstFirst 1 3 13 23 63 113 513 1013 1107 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts