Posted by Lilyofthestars
(here)
I for one will say that my heart aches and weeps for Ukraine. I will not be manipulated by any of the propaganda on either side of the line. I do however believe Ukrainians on the ground. Over the last week, I have taken an extensive amount of time to carefully listen to as many interviews as possible with Ukrainians (by the dozens) and ultimately feel convinced that this is 100% Putin's madness to blame, and that he has gone insane. No, such people are not paid actors. This is not another Sandy Hook Alex Jones drama.
I know that NATO and its side of the narrative is widely half-truths. The realities of the World Wide Economic forum, the Great reset, and who will lead the coming world post 2030 has MORE to do with this than anyone could imagine, in my opinion. But that does not mean that everything we are learning about what is going on in Ukraine at the hands of Putin's murderous spirit is 100% propaganda by the Ukrainian government. This is a man who poisons and kills his enemies and anyone who stands up to him.
I call BS to anyone who is saying that Putin is not the aggressor here. Videos and Images do not lie. Sure, some of you can say that much of the imagery and videos circulating around could be from old Russian/Ukraine confrontations from 2014/15, but that is only a few instances. All of which have accurately been called out already. Even the BBC (who apparently is all lying propaganda, right? and yes, that was sarcasm), has fully admitted that some of the videos/images coming out need to be properly labeled as old footage that is not related to the current devastation occurring.
But make no mistake, there IS DEVASTATION going on all over Ukraine at the moment. I have seen enough footage from dozens of towns now. Its happening. And yes, its at the hand of Russian soldiers. It is not the Ukrainian military bombing its own people to make Putin look aggressive. What has this become, a 4chan channel?
Ukraine is so much more ancient than modern Russia or the Oligarch families who rule it. Thank God Russians are taking to the streets in Moscow and protesting. What Putin is doing isn't justifiable and he is a liar. I am in disbelief that there is even any debate here about who is causing all of this. Yes, yes. I know the layers go intricately deep, deeper than any of us could imagine who are not directly Russian or Ukrainian. However, videos and images do not lie. And most of the current circulating videos/photography are indeed current.
And here
Russia-Ukraine crisis: Graphic photos show bloodied civilians amid invasion
Everyone keeps saying that the narrative is in "reverse", as in I keep seeing claims (in other places other than Avalon), that its really Ukraine who is deliberately manufacturing all of this to somehow paint a false narrative that Putin is invading. That he's simply there "meeting" Ukraine's supposed aggression. What planet are such people living on? For all you can say about how terrible the "west" media is, it has actually done an impeccable job with boots on the ground interviews and coverage in Ukraine for days now. I have been quite impressed with with the accurate interviews and coverage of yes, WESTERN media journalists who are IN UKRAINE right now speaking to people in the streets constantly.
A certain person here who has past dealings living in Ukraine, no longer lives there. Her input is greatly valued. But keep in mind, Ukraine itself is widely divided. You have the minority of Ukrainians who will defend Putin and his actions to the very bitter end, then you have what truly appears to be far MORE Ukrainians who are terrified of him and who he has proven himself to be over the years. If Ukrainians were so happy about Putin invading and actually wanted to become a part of the motherland of Russia, they wouldn't all be fleeing by the millions. STOP supporting this tyranny and madness by making excuses for Putin.
This isn't a NATO VERSUS Russia Debate. This should be a humanitarian crisis debate alone. Screw government agendas. Just look at the realities of what Putin is trying to pull off. I don't care about NATO's lies at this point. What is evident is the psychopathic/sociopathic mentality of Putin at the moment and how many thousands of people will die due to his inability to allow Ukraine to make their own decisions as a sovereign nation. So what if it use to be a part of Russia? It isn't anymore and hasn't been for 30 years. A majority of the people have spoken. They do not want to be a part of Russia. NATO's evils and agendas are another debate for another time. Putin's government and style of governance is no less or more corrupt than NATO and its allies are. I say they're all not to be trusted.
Ukraine is truly being used as a Sacrificial lamb by both sides and I find it despicable that NATO will not lift a pinky finger to stop this. Ukraine turned over almost all of their nuclear stock pile in hopes to one day be a part of NATO. They were assured securities and help should the need ever arise. NATO owes them protection at this point, even if they aren't a part of NATO yet. I can only imagine how abandoned Ukrainians are feeling at the moment.
Lastly, my understanding is that the "Nashi", which is a now nonexistent group (unless they just rebranded?), were entirely Pro-Putin on every level. Putin apparently funded it. So, I guess that says everything about the sentiments I am seeing fly around.
Here's a review of the Nashi. It at least provides the basics.
Nashi Overview and history. I realize that some of this is up for debate, but overall I am sure the article is fairly accurate concerning how they were used by Putin to further his agenda. I'd go as far as to say even manipulated and lied to. Their suffering used as a finely tuned weapon.
To quote:
Nashi's close ties with the Kremlin have been emphasized by Vladislav Surkov, Deputy Presidential Chief of Staff (1999-2011), who met with the movement's activists on numerous occasions, delivering speeches and holding private talks. It has been speculated that the Kremlin's primary goal was to create a paramilitary force to harass and attack Vladimir Putin's critics as "enemies of the State". At a political education event in summer 2006, the Kremlin advisor Gleb Pavlovsky told Nashi members that they "lacked brutality": "you must be prepared", he went on, "to break up fascist demonstrations and prevent with force any attempt to overthrow the constitution"
(source is adequately cited here). Critics have compared Nashi to the Soviet Komsomol and the Hitler Youth.
Make what you will of that. I think Malisa is a wonderful person on the forum. But I also believe that War and unthinkable human abuses can warp one's mind and soul in such a way that you can't always see properly. Evil exists everywhere. There is no one culture/ethnicity that doesn't have rapists, murderers, and psychopaths misusing their positions of power. Especially when it comes to any given nation's military. You can not generalize all Ukrainians or all Russians, nor more than you could Arabs or Jews. One can say "A Ukrainian soldier did this to me or my loved one and therefore I will support the opposing side", but those experiences can't possibly reflect the "all" of Ukrainian soldiers. All men that wear a uniform for ANY country are capable of extreme human abuses during times of war. It goes with the territory of being a trained killer. Sadly, people (as in the regular citizens who become causalities of such cruelties) seek revenge on those they feel are responsible for their pain and suffering. It also means that once someone has seen a loved one brutally hurt or murdered by one side, they will never trust anyone from that side again. This is how extremist terrorist groups are amassed and created. Its called being blind because you were hurt by someone on the other side of the line.
At this point, I stand with Ukraine and I trust the "West" narrative far more than what I'm seeing coming out of Putin's mouth on an hourly basis now. I am listening to both sides carefully and have been for weeks now. Putin is quickly spiraling out of control and his insanity grows more intense by the hour.
This video below is a just an example of what its like if you DARE not choose your words correctly when speaking with Putin. This man looks like he was about to faint in FEAR or piss his pants in terror. I am sure he knows far more about what Putin is capable of than any of us. It is not Propaganda, and never has been, that Putin murders and poisons all who oppose him.
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
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