WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

[I am B]

Psaky says Russian interests are beyond Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/...ne-2022-02-24/



On the other hand, Morocco is setting up Israeli and Chinese missiles and Turkish drones threatening the spanish Ceuta and Melilla cities of the Gibraltar strait, and the Canary islands.

Its like everyone is preparing for global conflict.

[edina]

Posted by Hermoor (here)

Posted by Lilyofthestars (here)
Once China decides its a convenient time to take back Taiwan simultaneously (reports are pouring in that they're now eyeing the timing being good for it), the whole thing could spiral into World war incredibly fast.

My first thought when this all went hot was what kind of news is coming out from China now?

Do we have any reliable/recommended sources?

Taiwan news is probably a good place to look for that....

9 Chinese military aircraft including 8 J-16 fighter jets, Y-8 reconnaissance plane intrude on SW corner of Taiwan's ADIZ

[Patient]

Posted by edina (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Mod note from Bill:

Jeez, guys. We're discussing WW3 here.

I'm not convinced that this will lead to the so-called WW3, although there is a massive push of the narrative at the moment.
As a side note, I consider that what has happened to the continent of Africa to be WW3. That continent has been completely devastated by hybrid forms of war, perpetrated mostly by transnational organizations sometimes under the banner of a nation (US, Britain, Europe, China, ect.. ) and sometimes under the banner of United Nation NGO's.

I also think it's important to listen to Malisa's perspective, as I think it's important to listen the The Saker and to George Eliason, because of their personal experiences.

Right now, I'm listening to a virtual talk with Professor John Mearsheimer, on the context and history of the Ukraine from 20220221. Of course, he is coming from a more mainstream perspective which leaves out that the Ukraine had become a "captured" nation used by corrupt people for a wide range of horrendous crimes. My heart goes out the people of Ukraine and all of Eastern Europe and other places that this has happened to over the last several decades.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nbj1AR_aAcE

Professor John J. Mearsheimer is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago, where he has taught since 1982. He graduated from West Point in 1970 and then served five years as an officer in the U.S. Air Force. He has published six immensely influential books on international relations theory. In 2020, he won the James Madison Award, which is given once every three years by the American Political Science Association to “an American political scientist who has made a distinguished scholarly contribution to political science.”

He brings up the issue of the US Monroe Doctrine, and applies the logic to Russia, which makes sense in my opinion.

Bernie Sanders does the same here:

And while I don't think this will necessarily give way to WW3, I do think there is something much larger afoot.
I find myself looking around the edges, and at that place 6 feet behind me, rather than at the projector screen in front of me, if that makes sense.

Depending upon how your life has been affected over the last 2 years, I think many people could say that we have been in WW3 already for longer than we realize.

It is just not a war that we are familiar with (from history and movies). And we are not sure who the enemy is, really.

IMHO, what is happening with Russia and Ukraine is a large fight with military weapons within the world war.

I expect that more people have died from poisoning over the last 18 months than will die in this military exchange.

And sadly, many more will follow - but most will die quietly and not reported in the press.

Let's try not to fight amongst ourselves as each person looks for a way to make sense and express themselves - people grieve in different ways for humanity and our planet.

I wish...and wish.

Like the theory that a butterfly can flap it's wings and the wind rises to a hurricane on the other side of the world - a person's one act of kindness each day will resonate through society enough to make a real difference.

If only everyone understood how their actions ripple through the world and used that knowledge for good without evil.

[Mashika]

People seem to be posting videos from Donbass refugees and claiming they are from Ukraine. I have seen several people claiming also that some tv channels are reproducing videos from people who got killed in Donbass or of the shelled buildings and also claiming it is from Ukraine

This is one example of it. Claims this is an Ukrainian father and his kid

Got called soon after, this is the truth

Why people go so low as to do things like this is beyond me

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Hermoor (here)
My first thought when this all went hot was what kind of news is coming out from China now?

Do we have any reliable/recommended sources?

I can't swear how reliable this is, and this isn't coming from China, but The Epoch Times has this running page: https://theepochtimes.com/china-news

Two relevant articles from today:

• China’s Xi Will Invade Taiwan After Taking Cue From ‘Twin Sister’ Putin, Trump Warns
• China Refuses to Denounce Russian Attack on Ukraine, Blames US for Stoking Tensions

[Satori]

As the saying goes: “The first casualty of war is truth.”

Who to believe...? It certainly isn’t those who foment and promote war and those who benefit from it.

[Bill Ryan]

Another reminder to us all:

Wade Frazier is posting regularly about this entire situation, and as best I can see he has an excellent grasp of the history and background. He needs to continue posting his analyses on his own thread, and it'd not really be appropriate for me or anyone else to copy everything here. (The platform that Avalon has provided for Wade is really just a safe place to host his running personal blog.)

But, if you have time, do read his detailed posts on this page. They contain a great deal of linked references.

• Wade Frazier: A Healed Planet: page 493

[Mashika]

"WHAT ARE SECRET US BIO-LABORATORIES DOING IN UKRAINE?"
https://www.stalkerzone.org/what-are...ng-in-ukraine/

WHAT ARE SECRET US BIO-LABORATORIES DOING IN UKRAINE?
April 25, 2020

On April 23rd the US Embassy in Ukraine acknowledged that there are biological laboratories in Ukraine that are under the control of the Pentagon.

The statement of diplomats came after an open letter from people’s deputies about the threats posed by these research centers to Ukrainians.

However, the Americans deny the threats and say that scientific work is being carried out for exclusively peaceful purposes. And talk of threats is written off as “Russian disinformation”.

The Ukrainian “Strana” news agency looked into this story.

What the deputies of the Rada declared
On April 14th people’s deputies from “Opposition Platform – For Life” Viktor Medvedchuk and Renat Kuzmin wrote requests to four leaders of the country: President Zelensky, Prime Minister Shmygal, Head of the SBU Bakanov, and Minister of Healthcare Stepanov.

In an appeal with reference to Serbian and Bulgarian media, it is reported that the US has more than 400 bacteriological laboratories around the world, including at least 15 in Ukraine.

There are exclusively American ones, and they are financed at the expense of the US Department of Defence. The laboratories are located in Odessa, Vinnytsia, Uzhgorod, Lvov (three), Kiev (three), Kherson, Ternopol, and near Crimea and Lugansk.

People’s deputies note that the functioning of American biolaboratories in Ukraine started during the presidency of Viktor Yushchenko and the premiership of Yuliya Tymoshenko – August 29th, 2005.

At that time, cooperation agreements were signed between the US Department of Defence and the Ministry of Healthcare of Ukraine for the prevention of proliferation technologies (growth of body tissue by cell division), pathogens, and expertise that can be used for the development of biological weapons.

“In fact, the work in the laboratories is carried out under the program of biological experiments. The budget is $2.1 billion and is funded by the US Defence Threat Reduction Agency. The Scientific and Technical Center in Ukraine, an international organisation funded by the American authorities and whose staff have diplomatic immunity, has also become involved in this activity. This organisation is engaged in financing projects for the creation of weapons of mass destruction,” wrote Medvedchuk and Kuzmin.

Further, the people’s deputies point out that after the launch of biolaboratories in Ukraine there were outbreaks of infectious diseases.

“So, in Ternopol in 2009 there was a virus that caused hemorrhagic pneumonia. Its victims were 450 Ukrainians. In 2011, there was an outbreak of cholera in Ukraine – 33 people died. Three years later, cholera was diagnosed already 800 citizens, another year later more than 100 cases of cholera were recorded in Nikolaev.”

People’s deputies also gave such examples. In January 2016, 20 soldiers died from an influenza-like virus in Kharkov, and more than 200 were hospitalised. Two months later, 364 deaths were recorded in Ukraine. “The reason is swine flu of the same strain of influenza that led to the global pandemic in 2009,” say Medvedchuk and Kuzmin.

They further point out that in 2017 in Nikolaev there was an outbreak of hepatitis A. In the summer of the same year there were similar hotbeds of infection in Zaporozhye and Odessa, and in the autumn – in Kharkov.

“In 2010-2012 [i.e., already under Yanukovych – ed] the Ukrainian government initiated checks to see if the laboratories comply with all safety measures. As a result, a number of gross disorders were identified that could lead to the leakage of strains of dangerous infections. The fact of extract ventilation facing the premises of a kindergarten was even recorded,” it is said in the appeal of Medvedchuk and Kuzmin.

Then people’s deputies write that in 2013 President Viktor Yanukovych abandoned such cooperation with the United States. But already in 2014 Petro Poroshenko continued it. “It is likely that Yanukovych lost power with the active participation of the US government precisely because of his refusal to cooperate with the Pentagon,” suggest the deputies from “Opposition Platform – For Life”.

In conclusion, they point out, “It is possible that the secret and opaque activities of dangerous foreign objects on the territory of Ukraine have the task of testing the actions of viruses and bacteria on the bodies of Ukrainians”, and ask the leadership of Ukraine to understand this.

[Gwin Ru]

...

... Putin Conquers Ukraine: Clinton Mercenary State Crumbles As War At Home Builds 11:30

Stew Peters Show
Published February 24, 2022

Rumble — Is Russia fully justified in invading Ukraine, and is China flying under the radar to invade Taiwan while the media is focused on blasting Vladimir Putin? How much longer will it take until American’s realize they’re being pawned by the leftist media who are panicking that one of their biggest global income investments is now crumbling to the floor?

Source: https://www.rumble.com/video/vt6av0

... gives a good summary of Ukraine history.

PS: hmmm... something funky happening with the Rumble embed? (with FireFox)

Mod note from Bill:
Firefox (on Mac) here, and it all looks fine and normal.


Thanks Bill; I found the culprit: PrivacyBadger addon for firefox which completely blocked Rumble.

[edina]

Posted by Patient (here)

Depending upon how your life has been affected over the last 2 years, I think many people could say that we have been in WW3 already for longer than we realize.

It is just not a war that we are familiar with (from history and movies). And we are not sure who the enemy is, really.

IMHO, what is happening with Russia and Ukraine is a large fight with military weapons within the world war.

I expect that more people have died from poisoning over the last 18 months than will die in this military exchange.

And sadly, many more will follow - but most will die quietly and not reported in the press.

Let's try not to fight amongst ourselves as each person looks for a way to make sense and express themselves - people grieve in different ways for humanity and our planet.

I wish...and wish.

Like the theory that a butterfly can flap it's wings and the wind rises to a hurricane on the other side of the world - a person's one act of kindness each day will resonate through society enough to make a real difference.

If only everyone understood how their actions ripple through the world and used that knowledge for good without evil.

What you're saying here makes sense to me.

There's this image of WW3 that's been hanging over people's minds, essentially for as long as I can remember. In some ways, that image drives us, it can predictably trigger reactions in people. And I feel, especially with some factions, there is a real push for something like that to happen.

I'm not sure that the war as it is happening will look like that. It hasn't looked like that yet. It could, but it could be something very different and possibly more insidious.

The "real" war, what some have called the "silent" war has been happening for a good long while.

Other people have raised similar points that you do. In addition to the pandemic example, I've seen some people share images of the neighborhoods destroyed by the BLM/Antifa riots alongside the images of Russia in Ukraine. The felt affect of the people living in those neighborhoods probably also feels similar to being war-torn, in way it's all a part of the same larger war.

I'm hoping people don't lose sight of that. Some people haven't figured it out, yet. This larger, hybrid style war.

In one of the articles at the Saker, Andrei, a regular writer there shared something that stood out to me,

The first thing which I want to point out is that this was a very carefully orchestrated event, and I don’t just mean today’s live meetings and signing. For those of us who follow Russian politics very closely there can be no doubts that all this was prepared long BEFORE the Russian ultimatum to the West.

This is “the plan” which Putin once openly referred to.

Let me make this clear: this recognition should NOT, repeat, NOT, be seen in isolation. It is just ONE PHASE in a PROCESS which began at least a year ago, or more, and there is much more to come.

Next, that must be repeated again, this is NOT about the LDNR, the Donbass or even the Ukraine, this is about a new security architecture on Europe and, therefore, on our entire planet.

He wrote this a few days ago... the 21st.

He seems to interpret what's happening in terms of west versus east. However, I'm considering this from a much larger global perspective.

I'm also considering this in the context of what just happened in Canada. Keeping in mind an article written by Sundance on his website...

BOOM, Trudeau Reversal Motive Surfaces – Canadian Banking Association Was Approved by World Economic Forum To Lead the Digital ID Creation

Chrystia Freeland and Justin Trudeau are members of the WEF. And so is Putin.

My gut tells me the timing of these events are related, which is one reason why I am looking around the edges of things.

[Satori]

Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
...

... Putin Conquers Ukraine: Clinton Mercenary State Crumbles As War At Home Builds 11:30

Stew Peters Show
Published February 24, 2022

Rumble — Is Russia fully justified in invading Ukraine, and is China flying under the radar to invade Taiwan while the media is focused on blasting Vladimir Putin? How much longer will it take until American’s realize they’re being pawned by the leftist media who are panicking that one of their biggest global income investments is now crumbling to the floor?

Source: https://www.rumble.com/video/vt6av0

... gives a good summary of Ukraine history.

PS: hmmm... something funky happening with the Rumble embed?

With all respect, this is not a flattering picture of Stew Peters. At a minimum, he looks very tired. (And little doubt he is given all that is going on.) I’ve not listened to him in the last few months. I used to watch his program in the height of the 2021 version of the cv19 fraud, but not much since then.

[Bill Ryan]

J.R. Nyquist, who's a longtime student of Russian history and politics (Chinese history and politics, too), and who is nobody's fool — and who doesn't trust Putin or Xi one bit — posted this article yesterday.

(My personal comment: I always learn a lot from Nyquist, but I suspect he may be rather too focused on Russia and China and not quite enough on even wider/higher-level globalist/NWO/WEF agendas.)

• https://jrnyquist.blog/2022/02/23/ru...raine-analysis

Russian Troops Enter Eastern Ukraine: Analysis

Russia initially did everything it could to make sure these disagreements could be resolved by peaceful means. However, the Kiev officials have conducted two punitive operations on those territories; and, apparently, we are witnessing a third escalation. All these years … the people living on those territories have been literally tortured by constant shelling and blockades.
— Vladimir Putin, 21 February 2022

President Vladimir Putin spent months deploying Russian troops around Ukraine, on three sides. Of course, he said Russia was not going to invade Ukraine; and many believed him. Last week, when Putin’s spokesmen announced the Russian troops were standing down, many people believed him. But the troops did not leave their deployments. They moved closer to the border with Ukraine.

And then it was alleged that the Ukrainians did a bad, bad thing. So, the Russian troops did not go home as advertised. The troops stayed in position; and on Monday, Putin decided to invade eastern Ukraine. And now Putin has asked the Duma for permission to use the Russian military to attack forces outside of Russia. Some intelligence analysts believe that a general invasion of Ukraine will soon begin.

Putin offers many and variable justifications for invading Ukraine: He says America initiated a coup in Ukraine and took it over in 2014. Putin also claims the Ukrainians are committing genocide against ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine. Putin complains that the West promised not to admit east European nations into NATO*, even though there was no treaty or formal agreement on this.

* See by M.E. Sarotte, Not One Inch: America, Russia, and the Making of the Post-Cold War Stalemate. Sarotte’s research shows that no such promise was made to Moscow. In fact, Moscow signed treaties that brought NATO closer to Russia’s borders.

Putin further claims that Ukraine is not a real country; rather, it was “created by Lenin.” (Untrue.) Therefore, Ukraine has no right to exist. Over-egging the omelet even more, Putin has suggested that the breakup of the Soviet Union was illegal.

Given the testimony of numerous defectors, and a strategic sense of things, it seems that Moscow has always planned to retake Ukraine, if only to put the Soviet Union back together. There is something inevitable about Moscow aligning with communist China, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, communist Cuba, and all the other communist countries.

Has anyone bothered to notice this? No. They were all too busy counting their “peace dividend,” congratulating themselves for “winning” the Cold War. The return of Ukraine to the Union and the reemergence of the communist bloc was always in the cards.

When are people going to wake up? The left remains deceived and the right remains deceived. They each have their narratives and each narrative has been wrong. How does one get past the embarrassment of it?

Even now the conspiracy hacks are blaming Western elites for the war. Yet the war now begins on Moscow’s order, after Putin’s meeting with Chinese leader Xi on February 4. Most people will never realize what this means strategically; namely, that we are now in the Final Phase of the communist bloc long range strategy. And that means a trap is being sprung.

The communist powers have a special dilemma at this time, however. After fooling everyone for three decades, how are they going to get folks to realize they mean business? What if they cannot, like a highway robber, convince the West to surrender peacefully at gunpoint?

Under the present circumstances, the West is threatening sanctions on Russia over this invasion of Ukraine. Sanctions? On the new owners of the world? (But then, does anyone realize who these new owners are?)

If the United States puts sanctions on Russia, I am told the Russians will launch a devastating cyber-attack on the United States. In response to this, President Biden has promised to retaliate in kind. What happens, then? A further escalation? Probably. Is there any way to avoid a wider war at this point? How would that be possible given the dynamic we are seeing?

Our banks, our companies, our trading systems, should have never given Moscow credits or technology or trade advantages. Our leaders should have never admitted China to the World Trade Organization. After twenty years, what is the benefit of this post-Cold War openness toward Beijing and Moscow? We are now on the brink of a war in Eastern Europe, not knowing if it will escalate or not.

Putin’s government has, in recent weeks, threatened Finland, Sweden, Poland and the Baltic States. Putin knows that NATO is weak and has been subverted. He knows that America is weak and unready for war. Also, Putin has China as an ally. Why should he fear anyone? He can threaten and bluster, yes. But he can also carry out those threats. He is powerful now. He has built his military and brags of “deploying weapons on combat duty without parallel in the world.”

Ukraine has called up her reserves, finally, at the eleventh hour. If Russia strikes quickly, the mobilization will be too late. The ground is not frozen, but muddy. The sky is overcast with rain forecast for Kiev today. The Russian armor will be slowed. But how much will it be slowed? Ukraine is being abandoned because America and her allies did not prepare, did not take the threat from Russian seriously. And now we are feeding the crocodile in the hope that he will eat us last.

Today the Russian forces have reportedly commenced “radio silence.” Some sources say that a major war will being within two weeks. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has been told that a full Russian invasion, involving air and missile strikes, might begin in the next 48 hours. Ukraine’s foreign minister, grasping at straws, said that Russia is ready to attack and there is but a short time left for deterrence (i.e., for the West to declare its willingness to defend Ukraine).

The Russian leaders may cynically claim that Ukraine has provoked them and NATO cheated them, but Russia’s leaders are the real cheaters. They cheated on the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Agreement. They cheated on the Conventional Forces in Europe Agreement. Even as NATO got rid of thousands of tactical nuclear weapons the Russians have kept 20,000 such weapons. The proof is now in the pudding. Watch Ukraine.

~~~

Nyquist also posted this video on 21 February, three [long!] days ago:

Jeff Nyquist - Russian War Machine - China - The Alien Connection - Future Predictions and More

https://rumble.com/vvj2pw-jeff-nyqui...-predicti.html

Source: https://www.rumble.com/video/vswwno

[Michel Leclerc]

Posted by Malisa (here)
(...)
No amount of tender spiritual wishes will fix that. (...)

That's why we are the way we are, it's hard, is not easy to express at all, ever

Amen.
While we are here, we will have to drink the chalice to the full.

We have not ascended yet.

From time to time, grace comes and we grow into our "higher Self", our "double", Divinity etc.

A second later, he "real" confronts us with a real-life koan, and we descend back to the "hard" (as you say, Malisa) core of our incarnation.

Not only do we have joy and joy with and because of other beings’ joy – we also suffer and suffer other beings’ suffering and because of it.
There is some dignity in just being human.

[holcaul]

Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
...

... Putin Conquers Ukraine: Clinton Mercenary State Crumbles As War At Home Builds 11:30

Stew Peters Show
Published February 24, 2022

Rumble — Is Russia fully justified in invading Ukraine, and is China flying under the radar to invade Taiwan while the media is focused on blasting Vladimir Putin? How much longer will it take until American’s realize they’re being pawned by the leftist media who are panicking that one of their biggest global income investments is now crumbling to the floor?

Source: https://www.rumble.com/video/vt6av0

... gives a good summary of Ukraine history.

Terrific! Thanks, Gwin Ru.

[holcaul]

Russia Today is down and has been down for at least a couple of hours.


https://www.rt.com/

[ExomatrixTV]

• Hannity: This Is Madness

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=YRtZld1m7kY

• Tucker: This Is What We Should Be Worried About:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=SnKez4bL0po

[justntime2learn]

Posted by holcaul (here)
Russia Today is down and has been down for at least a couple of hours.


https://www.rt.com/

I haven't been experiencing that problem and have been getting alerts all day. I clicked on your link and it's up and working. I received this alert a little more than an hour ago:


Reports of explosions in Kiev — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union
https://www.rt.com/russia/550553-kie...eos-operation/

Picture of link I just clicked on:



Good luck my friend

[Strat]

Posted by holcaul (here)
Russia Today is down and has been down for at least a couple of hours.


https://www.rt.com/

Server is probably getting overloaded with traffic.

EDIT: It's working fine for me. I clicked on it and found this interesting article, Anonymous is declaring cyber war on the Russian government. In the article it does say RT will be targeted.
https://www.rt.com/russia/550548-ano...er-war-russia/

RT is being DDoS'ed

[ExomatrixTV]

• What Does Russia Want?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=kYK4UGS-C0I

[Mashika]

This is depressing, he trusted the wrong people and now the realisation that he was played and used has come

We were left alone. No one wants to fight for us. They don't want to take us to NATO, they are afraid to give security guarantees — Zelensky

This is very unlike him, he looks unkempt, wearing that shirt instead of the usual suit he likes, several days beard. I think he's feeling betrayed and very down. He really considered things would go different, but now he has just realised he was just a tool and Ukraine a sacrifice for the west goals


He has announced talks with Russia very soon, Ukraine will accept and sign off an agreement to be neutral, lots of things will change now if this happens