Is Charles Material correct or incorrect? Could that affect credibility Avalon forum?

[qbeac]

Please, before voting in the poll, it is recommended to read this post (#1) which contains instructions and clarifications about the poll and its questions. Thanks!

Hi everyone,

This poll is to get a general view of the opinion of Avalon users about the Charles Material (CM) and how that opinion may evolve in time, because as more data comes to light, that opinion may or may not change in any direction.

This poll is placed in the “General Discussion” section of the Avalon forum because it transcends the Charles Material and could affect the Avalon forum in general.

The poll only has 10 options (5 questions with two parts each) because that’s the maximum number allowed by the forum system. It would have been good to include more questions, but I don’t know if it is technically possible to increase that number.

If it is not, in order to obtain more data (more questions about different subjects) it would be necessary to open other polls. Anybody is welcome to do so to gather the data of their own choosing and to ask the questions of their own choosing.

The poll has 5 questions divided in two parts (a and b) because the system does not allow to ask an individual question with a yes/no answer. So, you can choose “a” or “b” for each one of the 5 questions, since it is a multiple choice poll. That is, each person can answer the 5 questions (a or b) if they wish to do so, or only some of them. It’s up to you.

The questions are short (few words) because the system only allows a maximum number of characters per sentence (see below for clarifications of some questions).

There is no expiration date for the poll. It will run as long as this thread is opened or the subjects of the poll clarified.

You are welcome to post your comments in this thread.

The more people that vote in the poll, the more statistically significant its results will be.

Therefore, please, spread the word so that everybody in the Avalon forum knows about it and has the chance to vote.

Thanks.


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Additional clarifications about the questions of the poll

Question 1. For more details, see post:

Post #119, pag. 6. Will Charles honour his word of telling us the full details of his plan (option 3 of the poll)? If not, why did he include option 3 in the poll in the first place?
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post142244

Question 2. For more details, see post:

Post #84, pag. 5. Analogy of “donkey versus zebra”: Is the Charles Material true or false, correct or incorrect?
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post137296

In summary, what the “donkey versus zebra analogy” says is that, sometimes, if we only have a limited amount of key info about a specific subject, that subject could be true or false, but unless they provide additional and sufficient key info about it, it will be impossible to discern whether it is true or false. In these cases all we can say is “we don’t know if it is true or false”.


Knowledge is power, and the elite know it too well.

That’s why the elite have lied to us in just about every important thing we should already know. And that’s why they have hidden from us vast amounts of key info.

When somebody withholds information, there could be several different reasons for doing so, although quite frequently the reason is because releasing info means loosing power, and that’s what the elite didn’t want to do during the last 13 Millennia.

That’s why it is important trying to discern the real intentions and motivations of the party that withholds the info: is it due to “Service To Self” or “Service To Others” motivations (STS vs. STO)?

When there is an important lack of key info, an assessment of the risk of accepting that info at face value should be done: Is it worth it accepting this info knowing there is an important lack of key info about it? Could it cause any damage to me or to others if it turns out to be false? Which are the “pros and cons” (“opportunities” and “risks”) of trusting this info without having solid guarantees of its validity?


Minimum level of reliability of the info.

When can a specific info be considered reliable enough, or not reliable enough?

Sometimes it’s hard to know with 100% certainty if a specific info-witness-whistleblower is correct or incorrect, true or false.

Sometimes, reasonable doubts about its validity may arise in any stage of the process: from the time the info is first detected until further clarifications about it are provided by the witness-whistleblower.

For example, serious doubts about the reliability of Dan Burisch were raised when in the Amsterdam Conference (Awake & Aware, 2009) he said vaccinations where safe to take after many people in the audience had already learnt that Jane Burgermeister had denounced the fraud of the H1N1 flu vaccine. That was a serious blow to Dan Burisch’s credibility.

So, in case serious doubts about the validity of a certain info-witness come up, it would be good to reach a common agreement on the acceptable “level of reliability” of such info, and to set a “minimum level of reliability” under which a specific info cannot be considered reliable enough by the standards of quality of Project Avalon and Project Camelot.

The idea is that only info that comply the “minimum level of reliability” according to the Avalon and Camelot standards of quality can be considered worth it of becoming a part of its generally accepted body of info.

In some cases it may be impossible to discern if a specific info is correct or incorrect, o true or false, because there is insufficient data available about it.

In such cases, that info may have to be put “permanently on hold” or be “temporarily discarded” until new data comes to light that can unbalance its current state of uncertainty.


Question 3. For more details, see post:

Post #105, pag. 6. Does it matter if the Charles Material is true or false, correct or incorrect? What are the potential risks? Could the credibility of Bill-Avalon be deteriorated if serious incorrect data is not detected?
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post139301

Question 3 (3a and 3b) had to be shortened because the original sentence was two long, but it should have read like this:

3a- If the CM turns out to be incorrect and no action about it is taken by Bill, the credibility of Bill, Project Avalon and/or Project Camelot could be deteriorated.

3b- Even if the CM turns out to be incorrect and no action about it is taken by Bill, the credibility of Bill, Project Avalon and/or Project Camelot couldn’t be deteriorated.

The reason why the credibility of Bill-Avalon-Camelot could be negatively affected (or even deteriorated) is because some people may think:

“If the Charles Material turns out to be incorrect (or not reliable enough), how many other Avalon or Camelot material could also be incorrect?”

In other words, a single fly could spoil the whole honey bottle. That’s the risk.


Question 4. For more details, see posts:

Post #782, pag. 40. Important question for Bill about the Q&A sessions. Is Charles cherry picking the questions? Why? Potential risk of the manipulation of info
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post129060

Post #94, pag. 5. Gedankenexperiment (thought experiment). Debunkers, Desinformation Campaigns, infiltration tactics and methods to control/manipulate information (Internet forums included)
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post138320

Post #98, pag. 5. Methods and tactics to infiltrate and manipulate society, including Internet forums. The “Cass Sunstein” case.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post138763

Post #23454, pag. 59. Nine steps to infiltrate and manipulate an Internet forum
http://camelotforum.com/index.php?op...emid=147#23454

Question 5. For more details, see posts:

Post #1, pag. 1 (points 8 and 9). Is the Charles Material correct or incorrect? Some yellow and red flags. Is Bill willing to debate in public with other experts (knowledgeable and honourable people) the validity of the CM?
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-Bill-or-Kerry

Post #76, pag. 4. Daniel Goleman and the advantages of the team effort approach to discern correct from incorrect info
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ll=1#post93738

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Why do many of us appreciate the info in Project Avalon and Project Camelot?

Many people are followers and supporters of Project Avalon and Project Camelot (me included) because of the following reasons:

a) They trust the integrity and honesty of Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy, and even though neither Bill nor Kerry are perfect (nobody is) and each has their own personal style, virtues and defects (who doesn’t?), they believe both Bill and Kerry are real truth seekers.

b) They trust the sincere willingness of Bill and Kerry to try to discern correct from incorrect info (witnesses and whistleblowers).

c) They think the overall quality of the info presented so far both by Bill and Kerry is high, and it provides a very deep, profound, and enhanced view of the Big Picture as compared to the tremendous limitations, censorship, and distortions of MSM (Mainstream Media).

d) Most people would expect that Bill and Kerry do their best to thoroughly vet the info, witnesses, and whistleblowers, and to submit them to the best possible due diligence process, seeking assistance from other experts when necessary.

e) Most people understand that nobody is perfect, and that some of the information of Project Avalon or Project Camelot could be incorrect, especially considering that the elite is probably be very much interested in planting false information and false witnesses and whistleblowers.

f) Point “e” is a real risk most people are aware of, and that’s why discernment, critical thinking, and positive criticism should be encouraged and should be welcome both by Bill and Kerry.

g) However, most people would also expect that in case some info turns out to be incorrect (or if it is or falls under the minimum level of reliability according to the Avalon and Camelot standards), a public correction would be made asap.

“An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.”
(John F. Kennedy)

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Some good quotes:

• "A time comes when silence is betrayal."
  (Martin Luther King)

• “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
  (Edmund Burke)

• “The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.”
  (Albert Einstein)

• "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."
  (Martin Luther King)

• “The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."
  (Noam Chomsky)

• “The truth without love is a lie”
  (Fransciscan priest. St. Francis of Assisi Order)

• “The truth shall set you free”
  (Jesus Christ)

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Feb-21-2011

Important update and potential WARNING

In the Project Camelot forum, in pages 70 to 73, people are talking about “the possibility” of performing the following stuff in Internet forums. I do not know if these possibilities could be correct or incorrect in this case, but let’s try to discern it. As an example of the conversation going on at Camelot, I quote several sentences from different posts:

Project Camelot forum. Several quotes from pages 70 to 73
http://camelotforum.com/index.php?op...690&Itemid=147

… the creation of a 'coven' and the opening of a channel that can be utilized by the negative side for their purposes with or without those 'linked up' being aware of it.

… there might be something "satanic" going on over there [at the Avalon forum]…

… to inject some satanic-like references…

… "creating a coven" with government "Persona Management Software" ( creating fake online personalities)…

… "Charles" did mention Lucifer in connection to the 33, as an immensely powerful "parasitical" being…

… A coven is defined on wikipedia as "A coven or covan is a name used to describe a gathering of witches or in some cases vampires. Due to the word's association with witches, a gathering of Wiccans, followers of the witchcraft-based neopagan religion of Wicca, is also described as a coven." And therefore not necessarily satanic. However, as in all things... such as this, I wouldn't rule that out....

… You will note that Charles is choosing 18 people (…) You will note the number 18 comes from the name Adolf Hitler (A and H being the first and the eighth letters of the Latin alphabet...

… I would think the best antidote to these manipulating and dichotomising tactics would be acts and statements of Unity from Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy as it would only confound the miserable efforts of these disruptive forces…

Some important questions for everybody:

1) Is there any expert in these matters around here (at Avalon) that understands well enough this type of stuff and could explain it better?

(Note: I mean an expert from the light side, not the dark side)

2) Is there any possibility whatsoever that those types of things could be performed or attempted in an Internet forum (including Avalon)?

3) What are the real and true intentions of the “33” when they decided to give the green light to do the Charles Interview? Are those intentions from the light side or from the dark side? Does anybody (Bill included) know it with total certainty? What are the risks of not being totally sure about it?

In any case, all of this should be properly and fully clarified.

Thanks.


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Feb-22-2011

Update about software technology to infiltrate Internet forums

This update is about certain type of software technology designed by the US government (or the elite) to create false “personas” (or fake personalities, cyber presences) to infiltrate Internet forums and manipulate the info.

On top of that we also need to consider some of the things Charles and others (Ex: Benjamin Fulford) have explained about the incredible capacity of current state of the art Artificial Intelligence Machines (AI, Super Computers) at the disposal of the elite, AI which has almost science fiction characteristics and could even simulate to a certain extent the behaviour of a human being.

The questions are:

1) Is that type of software technology already working?

2) Could they have used that type of technology to infiltrate this forum or other ones?

This is a link with info about this type of technology:

More HBGary Federal Fallout: The Government Wants To Buy Software To Fake Online Grassroots Social Media Campaigns
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...shtml#comments

The latest in the long line of revelations from the HBGary Federal email leak, is that HBGary Federal wanted to create software that could make it easy for staffers to create and maintain a massive number of fake online social network personas, allowing them to control virtual armies of totally fake people, whose only mission is to spy on others and spew paid-for propaganda.

But, what's even more amazing is that not only did the emails reveal HBGary Federal employees talking about building a platform for letting people more easily manage an army of fake personas, but that the US government put out a request for exactly that kind of software last June, with its request for "Persona Management Software."

“Software will allow 10 personas per user, replete with background, history, supporting details, and cyber presences that are technically, culturally and geographically consistent. Individual applications will enable an operator to exercise a number of different online persons from the same workstation and without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries.”

“Personas must be able to appear to originate in nearly any part of the world and can interact through conventional online services and social media platforms. The service includes a user friendly application environment to maximize the user's situational awareness by displaying real-time local information.”

The following are some comments about this topic posted in the Project Camelot forum with speculations about how many new members joined the Avalon forum at the beginning of January-2011 and right after the Charles Interview was announced by Bill Ryan, and whether or not some of those new members could be or not “software personas”:

Project Camelot forum
CHARLES AND THE ADVENT OF "V" ON THE PEOPLE
http://camelotforum.com/index.php?op...465&Itemid=147

… So somewhere in the neighbourhood of 800 -1000 new members [joined the Avalon forum right after January-1-11 due to the Charles Interview]?

… Just going by how many times Charles is "thanked" for his posts I'd say roughly around 60-70 followers. That sound about right? I wonder how many of those are actual live people... it could actually only be 6 or 7. I think that was pretty much alluded to on the Heather ect. thread.

….It's my understanding there is a group of IT techs who have sold their souls to TPTB and they are in the business of busting up alternative/truth/conspiracy websites and forums. It's what they do to keep the truth from getting out. Too bad...they're losing!

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March-9-2011

Update about two hypothesis

The two hypothesis can be read at link:

Post #28068, pag. 114. Two hypothesis about the risks of the infiltration of forums and manipulation of info and people
http://camelotforum.com/index.php?op...emid=147#28068

Edit: The previous link changed, the current one is this one:

Post #28068, pag. 117. Two hypothesis about the risks of the infiltration of forums and manipulation of info and people
http://camelotforum.com/index.php?op...emid=164#28068

[Shankari]

This is getting nuts
in my mind he can do whatever he wants

[anikohu]

Dear Qbeac! This is awsome!!- what a great work you have down! Thank You!!

[Lee-B]

Qbeac, thanks for your tireless efforts in attempting to seek the truth. Or at least confirmation of it.

[Sentience]

Again a truly detailed and outstanding post, Why you are constantly ignored by Charles and Bill as well for that matter is a complete red flag to my eyes.

I do hope that this thread is a catalyst to gain a response for the pertinent questions you have been asking on the Poll thread in the "Charles" forum.

Somehow I don't think i will be holding my breath though

[ScubaMonkey]

Way I see it, it's up to Charles what he does and its no skin off my nose either way. So I voted for 1b.
Has to answer 'a' for the other questions though.

[jorr lundstrom]

Oh my God. A new way trying to construct a parachute in a matter where no parachutes works or are in any way

needed.

[trenairio]

[edit][edit][edit]

[Anchor]

Qualifier: I voted without reading the first post. I still have not read the first post and do not plan to

The poll was well set out and the options were easy enough to understand.

[Jean-Luc]

Thank you for your critical look.

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proofs. Despite many signs of something genuine going on with this Charles material, there are still to date a number of strangest items that definitely require to be substantiated.

To me the most extraordinary ones are:

• The claim about the Reptiles who would have left the place eons ago, whereas a small group of pure (pure from what?) bloodlines would have kept interbreeding and withholding knowledge (and power) for all that time. How “impure” is the rest of humanity?
• The extremely bizarre longevity of Charles’ master (even though some currently documented things are also very bizarre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Bahadur_Bomjon). So I would say, lets’ leave that aside, be both highly skeptical and open minded. Wait and see.
• The extremely bizarre split during this last month of a coalition that would have been going on for 17.000 years. Mostly improbable, plus what signs do we have of this happening? What external signs of something really weird going on on planet Earth as a consequence of this very unique event?
• The very existence of this group of 33 as distinct from the known rich and wealthy. Difficult to hide to such an extent, isn’t it?
  

Added to that the strange 6 years span of time left to try and find some sort of creative solution. Why 6 years? Why not 2? Why not 20?

Well, clearly, we are left in the mist here with all this.

It’s a pity the second predicted interview seems to be postponed for another couple of weeks, as Bill will be in the US.

Could it be that neither Bill nor Charles really knows how to move from here and just sort of let things roll? What is the plan? Is there a plan?

This being said, I personally tend not to consider all this as some diabolic plan of the “elite” to divide and conquer. But it certainly leaves me with a taste of too little

Jean-Luc

PS. I’ve read your personal story with the priest. Interesting, but a quarter of an hour hoax can absolutely not compare with an 8 months relationship under the scrutiny of both Bill and a bunch of smart people here around.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post142950

[Jean-Luc]

(Deleted message)

[New Dawn]

Not to offend anyone, but lets just move on to other topics until the man himself or Bill have something to say. The Charles material has totally changed the forums attitude, from my perspective as I look in - that isn't Charlie's fault, it's ours. Besides, one of the most important questions asked to Charles was never answered, or was asnwered with another question, and I've lost interest in having a carrot dangled in my face which results in little. If I want to see the Riddler, I'll watch Batman.

Again, no offense to anyone - but a lot of people have had a lot of weird experiences, none of them led to anything. Now was that Charles related? Again, I don't care anymore, but all I do know is we need to remember why we came here, and that reason is not only Charles. I could go on, but what's the point, you get what I'm saying.

Peace to everyone!

[Icecold]

Well, Charles has listened to the members for a considerable time and has decided to leave the forum. The debate to a large extent should be over. Those who wanted him to go are getting their voices heard. Those who didn't want him to go are able to visit another forum to further discuss the material.

I would think this suits both camps. Demands can't be made on members unless they have operated outside forum rules.

I agree with New Dawn. Time to resume normal programming. Avalon is on the air. Taking callers.

Yes, Qbeac has done an outstanding analytical job which covers a wide range of concerns.

The poll remains highly significant because of the 4a and 4b questions.

[Bollinger]

Qbeac,

Thank you for your detailed clarifications and the poll concerning the Charles material. Right from the very beginning the material left many unanswered questions, anomalies, logical inconsistencies and many other holes that remain unfilled

The problem is that Charles is actually not a very good con artist. There are those who are far better at it than he but then he only needed to persuade one person and knew that the rest would follow. So, after having convinced Bill, he proceeded to steal his reputation and ride on the back of it for as long as it was possible to stay on.

It was only a matter of time before faith in such things begins to wane and rational thought takes over. Some are so innocent and ready to believe that it takes them a little longer to realise how absurd and utterly futile it all is. Disillusionment is a terrible thing when it hits and with any luck it should make one a better person for it.

As for the reputation of Avalon, it is inevitable that some damage will be sustained not only within but without its immediate sphere of followers and watchers. I dare say, Bill is probably facing one of the greatest quandaries of his life in trying to work out which way to go with this and no doubt he will consider his own position as time goes on and nothing useful results from this material.

We have all been conned or tricked in our lives either to believe in some useless fad or idea. There are thousands of people in this world (some in very high places and holding important positions) who have no regard for other people and use every dirty little trick to manipulate, deceive and gain our confidence in the hope that we believe in what they say. That is why it is so important to ask for concrete evidence and proof before embarking on anything of this kind.

Does all of the above mean that the world is wonderful and that there is nothing wrong with it? No, of course it doesn’t because there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. There are those who conduct painstaking research in order to uncover a tiny little truth that may lead to other truths and many in the alternative community (including Bill) have done a great job in bringing to us these revelations.

However, that does not mean that we should believe every Tom, Dick or Harry that comes up with a story that sounds like it could be true. Sometimes, one does have to make a leap of faith just to start the process of discovering truth and then seek to prove the assertion or theory by way of evidence. Since this has been and still is missing from the Charles material, we must grow ever more suspicious of it and if nothing is forthcoming in a short time, which it hasn’t, discard it entirey.

PS: I voted for 5a.

[ace]

Would rather go sit in the sun, on my hill and play with my dog.

Haven't you noticed

things have moved on.

Ace

[qbeac]

Hi everyone, today, Feb-21-2011, I have added an important update at the end of post #1

[Bollinger]

Posted by ace (here)
Would rather go sit in the sun, on my hill and play with my dog.

Haven't you noticed

things have moved on.

Ace

Well of course things have moved on. What other alternative is there BUT to move on? The kind of questions people should be asking themselves are:

Have I learned anything useful from it?
Has it made me a better soul?
Have I managed to drink a little from the cup of wisdom?
Did it bring clarity to my view and thinking?
Has it made me a better or worse person?
Does it have any consequence on how I would treat information of the same kind in the future?
How will I react to the next character that turns up with "information" and no proof?

Simply to say, time to move on, is tantamount to saying: oh well, never mind, it was good while it lasted, can we have some more please. Even if it is proven beyond all doubt that the Charles material was fake and completely without substance, you should still have learned something from it by enquiring of yourself the above questions, otherwise, it truly was a complete waste of time.

[aikya]

Thanks for the poll, qbeac, and for all the effort you make to get your questions answered.

Re Camelot, I've noticed a concerted effort on the part of one or two to try to stir up negativity towards Camelot. Bill has said repeatedly that he and Kerry are still good friends, that they are working on projects together, and all is good. So I can't help wondering whether the 'hate stirring' against Camelot is one more attempt to discredit them both?

[ponda]

Posted by qbeac (here)
Hi everyone, today, Feb-21-2011, I have added an important update at the end of post #1

Interesting update qbeac.

What concerned me the most with the charles saga was the secrecy involved which i thought was suspicious and what was behind the "thirty three".If it is indeed true that charles mentioned lucifer in connection with the thirty three then that would be enough of a warning for me.

qbeac said
"Charles" did mention Lucifer in connection to the 33, as an immensely powerful "parasitical" being…

[Icecold]

I have a question about your update Qbeac.

Could you include a few extra questions on your poll.

Q.6a. Do you have joint membership on the Avalon Forum and the Camelot Forum?

Q.6.b Do you have membership on the Avalon forum and not on the Camelot Forum?

Q.7a. Do you believe in Satanism?

Q. 7b. Do you think Satanism is a Christian notion which is a load of horse****?

I have a few other additions.

But these will do for starters.