Does the world need Universal Basic Income ?

[rgray222]

The theory is that AI and automation will displace so many people that they will need an income to live on. The problem is accepting money without anything expected in return shatters your self-regard, destroys your sense of self-worth and crushes your dignity. Everything is then perfectly aligned to manipulate the masses in any direction that our money masters see fit.

Finland experimented with universal income for two years and ended the program.

[xidaijena]

Posted by Isserley (here)

Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
...many will choose the work they want

This sounds like utopia. Who would do the less desirable work that no one wants - like cleaning the streets or public toilets, for example? AI robots?

If all the people have to do the jobs like cleaning the streets or public toilets, then everyone would do it. Like the jobs in New Oasis for Life, all chanyuan members need to work in the field. I also did the jobs like cleaning the toilets when I was living in the third branch.
Jobs are only jobs, it is due to wrong values from people who treat jobs into different levels.
I am working on line every day but I do really miss the job in the field.

[xidaijena]

Universal Basic Income? There is family, country, there is unfairness.
This is human world, not heaven.
Satan has his mission to set up programmes in human world and Hell. He needs to lead most people to low level world. It is also the principle of unity of opposites.
Lifechanyuan built New Oasis for Life which is only for small population of people. According Lifechanyuan values, the new Era which people can live happly can only last one thousand year.
Pray for the better world and do my own job well.
Study and cultivate myself every day.

[palehorse]

of course not, UBI is just another bull**** from the ****ing globalists that want to strip your freedom in the most "sensual" way as possible, they are having fun (can you see that?).. and you are considering to be part of the bondage? c'mon friend!

I didn't vote the poll, but it is a big NO, this is not right.

John said everything above, there is so many good threads about it here on Avalon, i thought it was very clear for the community what UBI is and is NOT.

If you care about your freedom/privacy NEVER join such a scheme.

[michaelofwessex]

Does the world need Universal Basic Income ?

No it bl**dy well doesn't!!!

[onawah]

There is well documented evidence about very peaceful matriarchal cultures of old where everyone was provided with the basic needs for survival.
( See the work of Marija Gimbutus: https://www.opusarchives.org/marija-...as-collection/ )
So it's evident at least that humanity has been capable of doing that, and some indigenous cultures have proven to be capable of that fairly recently, as well.

But I think the current predominant paradigm is far too dysfunctional, and governments far too corrupt to be capable of creating such a harmonious and just system today.

I expect the new post-cataclysm paradigm that will arise out of the ashes of this old one will be comprised of small, cooperative, sustainable communities which will have to learn all over again, by necessity, how to live in harmony with Nature, just as the indigenous peoples did before their cultures were destroyed by the current predominant one.(See SuspiciousObservers youtube channel.)

I imagine the surviving human race will be the happier for it, once they've figured out how to manage it all, and if they prepare for it well enough, they shouldn't have to go completely back to square one.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Advanced civilizations most likely don't earn a wage. Instead they earn prestige and privilege by the work they do. Intead of debt people earn credit.

[TomKat]

Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
When it comes to Universal Basic Income even those who want to fight for the good side, becomes divided in two opposite groups. There are those who believe that time has come to try new powerful measure to end poverty and those who believe that this measure will bring less workers and promote laziness.

I think that people should live their life with basic needs fulfilled, in that way we will have a better quality of life, more productive workers, many will choose the work they want, there will be more free time to understand the meaning of life, less criminality (in my opinion), less stress and anxiety and more stability.

I vote in favour of Universal Basic Income, but only with the limitation of age, I would say 25 and up, because they need to be more aware and more responsible for their action, before they get that income.

Do the world's corporations need taxpayer subsidy of their low-paid workers? That's the real question.

[T Smith]

Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
First we need to be clear that if this concept is for the good of people and then we can fight their evil plan behind it. I think the concept is in favour of humanity.

How do we make that clear? And even if we succeed in making that clear, how do make sure the clarity we "understand", in our minds, is the program those in control execute? (I ask these questions in all sincerity)

The road to hell is ALWAYS paved with good intentions... the honorable intentions undergirding the idea of universal income isn't the issue with why universal income may--or imho--may not favor humanity.

[iota]

Posted by Mark (here)
It's going to be a great determinant of who will be included within the coming global system 2.0 after global system 1.0 folds. It's the last step that will be taken to actually implement the social and economic control system fully and will require cards and chips to consolidate full system control.

For those within the system, they will be monitored, much as we are now, but probably at an even deeper level, biometrics and continuous health monitoring. Medical, economic and social systems will be consolidated and databases containing linked information on everyone within the system will be easily accessible by administrators from every sector of the system. Every sci-fi movie we've seen showing this kind of world has given us all a very clear idea of what it will look like. Just as we know what the opposition is supposed to look like.

They make it look like a hardscrabble life, with people barely finding food in Mad Max environments. I doubt it would look like that everywhere, though. People will get together and make lives and create new systems as well, but they will be the enemy of global system 2.0 and find themselves attacked and their children as prizes to be won within the system by families desirous of such. Hunger games, Divergent series, you name the post-apocalyptic scenario. They can all co-exist simultaneously. Transhumanism, bioengineering. A global, paganistic religion. Or maybe a faux-Christian one. Chinese culture become global culture, American and Western European culture subsumed to a level of parity with other African and Mesoamerican cultures.

I'm sure we could all go on and on about what it will look like. Good for some, not so good for others.

PRECISELY very well put

i thank you for taking the time to piece together a cohesive picture

i've drawn the very same conclusions as to the planned agenda!

MY deal is ...

i look to see what "they've" planned?

and ACTIVELY deny it

neutralize it

dissolve it

render it powerless

i said elsewhere:

i'd strongly advice against taking on what belongs to ANOTHER

as we ALL have enough to contend with the carrying of our OWN burdens i think

and the new thing, in fact, learned HERE from dealing with what i dealt with?

that i am putting in overtime to introduce to the COLLECTIVE:

the EFFECTS of the CHOICES made by others?

those belong to THEM

SINGULARLY

EXCLUSIVELY

IRREVERSIBLY

and ETERNALLY

THEIRS

until they CHOOSE never, ever to intend negative for another ~ AGAIN

we did NOT make those CHOICES, did we?

WHY are we taking on the effects then?

ALLOWANCE IS one of the PRIMARY reasons the parasites ARE in power today

WE ALLOWED it

WE tolerated it

and WE are not only experiencing the consequences OF this ALLOWANCE and TOLERANCE

we bear RESPONSIBILITY for that

because we ARE response-ABLE

BY "allowing" and "tolerating" not only are we ACQUIESCING?

we are giving IMPLIED consent

we don’t' get to complain about conditions WE ARE FOSTERING

AND ENABLING

if experiencing the effects of negative CHOICES were a certainty?

how long do you think those type of choices would continue?


i believe this to be a universal truth

[Agape]

Yes I believe it would improve something in this world. But it won’t be implemented in current era run by wars because it would prolong lives of the poorest and possibly, some of them would opt out of slave labor ( menial type of work that isn’t in fact necessary anymore).

Universal basic income would not reduce wages of professionals and other civil employees anyhow, in my opinion.
If you do high quality work that is demanding on your life also your income needs to be appropriate.

Under most current social schemes there are millions of people on verge of their ability/disability to work for money in every country, those are not “lazy people” or mentally disabled people , they may be elderly or in various vulnerable life situations, they may be alone and there is no common understanding or law that would entitle those unpayed millions to any kind of regular support.
Mothers used to fall in to that category in many countries and cultures if not most before the recent era of technical revolution,
still in many parts of world women are so occupied with children rearing and house chores that only the fittest ones can take a job while maternal fees apply for a year or two after birth of a baby.

In turn the economical responsibility for family hangs on income of one bread earner in many types of society leaving the other dependant , the same is true for elderly people who did not grow up under “pension schemes”.

Young people searching for job and life opportunities are in similar situations and if your opportunity does not come up clearly, it turns to be responsibility of parents to support the adult child almost indefinitely.

If that’s ever implemented it would probably affect only the poorest of the poor you really don’t know or care about because you never come in contact with any of those people: that’s the truth but there is billion of them worldwide for certain.

And it would be so meagre that it would enable some of them to survive little longer - not more than that.


In truth I don’t think there’s any Avalonian who would benefit from it or needed it.

If you still have a computer or a car or a bike to sell in case of emergency and have to “subsidise” on food brand choices and calling it crisis you really don’t know the people whom it may concern, sorry to say that.


🙏

[Agape]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
Advanced civilizations most likely don't earn a wage. Instead they earn prestige and privilege by the work they do. Intead of debt people earn credit.

The whole monetary system is live gaming system in my opinion.

Advanced civilisations indeed do not consider Life and Life values a Game to be played. Likewise work is not a contest as best working results come from harmonious team work.

The monetary game being played is off stage of planetary evolution , off set perhaps where number of players and predictable possibilities keeps growing exponentially faster than expected or perhaps than the original game was set for.

It’s the wheel of fortune and the carrousel as portrayed in 1976 sci-fi Logan’s Run

Our bodies and their health, our minds and abilities , our very lives are being run and sacrificed on this money wheel.

For sure, humanly speaking we are one of the most self destructive species in the Universe ..





Also, I’ve not seen “lazy people” oftenly in my life time, to be honest . But I’ve seen lots of ailing people and very tired people who kept working till their last breath,
that’s for sure.

[Baby Steps]

I read the WEF article that John shared where it’s discussed. The article emphasises a number of very persuasive points that need consideration whatever one’s biases are because they will be used to drive this issue.

At the bottom of the article the key thing appeared - that this proposed dole would have conditions - so NOT UNIVERSAL or UNCONDITIONAL which of course it should be to have a chance of being acceptable .

The condition mentioned was of course that you and your kids accept any jab that they specify

The piece glosses over the issue of ‘how do we afford this?’. It just says that it would not be as hard as you might think. This is correct as what we are talking about is a taxation system that funds state programmes but has a lower band that is a refund together with higher bands that actually charge people.

The important arguments being made are

a) there are at least a billion humans living in extreme poverty , a hand to mouth existence , where any disturbance, such as a pandemic could trigger mass death . It is a huge inequality and is not the fault of those marginalised people .
b) there is an ever increasing problem of the super wealthy and large corporations avoiding tax. They have the power to subvert the authorities at a national level - as they have done- so the burden of supporting the state falls to the less wealthy. There is therefore an urgent need for sone kind of pan national process to capture these profits and share out the tax. It must be addressed somehow .

I see this all as the elites using the carrot and stick. Nation states struggle financially and the elites then propose a secretive unaccountable non democratic solution that will tax corporations etc. This then doles out money and transforms the marginal lives of billions of people . Look at the wonderful outcomes - and not at the authoritarian measures needed to implement this, nor the top down secretive institutions running it .

For a developed country like the uk UBI could be great, and fiscally neutral. It would stop the benefits trap, augment the workforce and improve the quality of life of ordinary people. Systems to administer it , in terms of tax office databases etc are in place.

Now consider somewhere like Sudan . We know that most foreign aid sent is lost or ineffective. Definitely if the resources currently spent such as politicians bribes , arms deliveries masquerading as aid and failed infrastructure projects, would do more good if they were simply paid over to the population . But how ? Chip people ? Build a bank in every village ? Bill gates will tell us, no doubt. Maybe his vaccine database would help.

I want those corporations to pay more tax. I want to be able to place aid directly into the hands of those marginalised people . I want to prevent the elites from using these urgent needs to build their global dictatorship

[Ernie Nemeth]

We come into this world saddled with a massive debt that must be repaid in the form of forced/coerced study and a lifetime of underpaid work, where the enumeration received is itself undermined by monetary slight-of-hand and the rising costs of all goods and services.

It is a world where non-citizens are invited to reap the benefits of the sweat equity built up by its true residents. That is like starting a board game in the middle enjoying a massive advantage while everyone else starts at the beginning. These non-residents have their slates wiped clean, as their old life in their old country are forgiven, and they begin where the rest work hard for years to get to. And if during that time of struggle to amass a nest egg things go wrong, no one forgives true-residents their trespasses or wipes their slates clean. Their entire history follows them throughout life while they are held accountable for every transgression.

This world has gone astray. The pursuit of happiness has taken a secondary role to the pursuit of money. And earning money does not make one happy. But to make money is reserved for those with questionable scruples. Often, that which makes one happy is free, while earning money is never free.

There was a time when man walked with the animals and was on equal footing with nature. The pressures on its survival were the same as for any animal: food and shelter. Now we rarely have time for a walk in the park.

Humanity has become a slave to its own ingenuity, merely sacrificing their lives to the technological beast that seeks to devour their souls. Humanity is on a slow march to becoming mechanical robots, devoid of flesh and bereft of a questing heart.

Science, the proof there is no god, has become the religion of the world. Its dogmatic approach to reason has paved the way forward and allowed postulates and possibilities to substitute for the laws and axioms its priests cannot or will not deduce from first principles. In so doing science has become the single greatest threat to humanity's soul, and therefore its very existence.

UBI just solidifies this stance of scientific dogmatism. Those suckling at the governmental teat will internalize all the secular teachings by willful intent or by coerced consent, no matter.

The will of the beast shall prevail.

[syrwong]

One concept that is missing in this discussion is class and class struggle. It is the elimination of classes that is essential to human rights and economical justice, not an upper class giving the lower class money to survive as an act of charity. The world has evolved quite deliberately by upgrading technology to one consisting of two classes, the master class quite hidden and the slave class. If the classes do not exist, or the ones making planning and decision must receive the same mandates they enact, say they must be innoculated with the same vaccines and wear masks and take remdesivir when ill with covid, the masses may be happier to go along. But no, it is this social structure that makes any social welfare meaningless. That's why if the future is socialism as described by some future humans or aliens, it is the elimination of classes that is the single criterion of human advancement.

[Baby Steps]

I agree with this and any moves to help the poorest cannot be a substitute for fixing the economic reasons behind those peoples suffering.

In the case of most third world countries the roots of the poverty it the elites policy of exploiting those nations , preventing them from controlling their own resources or developing industries to add value. The west practises predatory debt, unfair trade terms and it props up its corrupt minion leaders there. If that tyranny was removed, many would escape their current poverty.

The elite prevents this aspect of sovereignty and prevents these nations from using cheap local medicines. They then point at the horrendous conditions they have created and propose a solution that includes mass control over the individual .

Ubi is a tool of those elites and serves their strategy and objectives however it is not in itself evil.(like they are)

[Mark]

Posted by iota (here)
PRECISELY very well put

i thank you for taking the time to piece together a cohesive picture

I've drawn the very same conclusions as to the planned agenda!

We have been subjected to decades now of 'soft' disclosure. The evolution of so-called 'science-fiction' and 'fantasy' genres have very clearly become an exposition on what currently - and in the distant past - exists beyond the mainstream understanding of our present, public technological and spiritual capabilities.

Posted by iota (here)

MY deal is ...

i look to see what "they've" planned?

and ACTIVELY deny it

neutralize it

dissolve it

render it powerless

How do you do that? In envisioning what this could mean, there is a duality of 'planned' futures. One is Global System 2.0, where all social and material engagement is monitored and controlled. There is also the Dysutopian wasteland that is to be inhabited by dissidents. Both of them are 'planned'. Both of them serve the other, even if they seem oppositional. It's like in the Matrix movies, the idea that the Machines kept Zion apart and seemingly sovereign purposefully in order to give people who escaped from the Matrix hope. A release valve, if you will. The dysutopian wasteland will serve the same function, while simultaneously providing continuous, youthful and intellectual fodder for the Global System 2.0 to pick and choose from as they need and will.

In effect, even the opposition is part of the problem.

Posted by iota (here)

i said elsewhere:

i'd strongly advice against taking on what belongs to ANOTHER

as we ALL have enough to contend with the carrying of our OWN burdens i think

and the new thing, in fact, learned HERE from dealing with what i dealt with?

that i am putting in overtime to introduce to the COLLECTIVE:

the EFFECTS of the CHOICES made by others?

those belong to THEM

SINGULARLY

EXCLUSIVELY

IRREVERSIBLY

and ETERNALLY

THEIRS

until they CHOOSE never, ever to intend negative for another ~ AGAIN

we did NOT make those CHOICES, did we?

WHY are we taking on the effects then?

What do you deal with? I am assuming that when you say "The effects of the choices made by others" you are referring to other people currently extant and those in the past who made decisions that led to the coalescence of the systemic mores that we engage today in our variegated and interrelated global cultures?

The evolution and dissemination of cultures around the world have resulted in a hodgepodge of syncretic systems that loosely correspond and bind nations together in economic and cultural production.

A way of thinking and being in the world has evolved, simultaneously. A way of thinking and being that we who have matriculated within these cultures share, to greater and lesser extents.

As it is a continuation of the thought processes and resultant words, actions and behaviors that formulated the current interlocking systems in the first place. There can be no change of local or global systems until the way of thinking that put them in place, stabilized them and continues to substantiate their propagation changes.

Posted by iota (here)
ALLOWANCE IS one of the PRIMARY reasons the parasites ARE in power today

WE ALLOWED it

WE tolerated it

and WE are not only experiencing the consequences OF this ALLOWANCE and TOLERANCE

we bear RESPONSIBILITY for that

because we ARE response-ABLE

BY "allowing" and "tolerating" not only are we ACQUIESCING?

we are giving IMPLIED consent

we don’t' get to complain about conditions WE ARE FOSTERING

AND ENABLING

if experiencing the effects of negative CHOICES were a certainty?

how long do you think those type of choices would continue?


i believe this to be a universal truth

I agree without qualification.

[ExomatrixTV]

Truly understanding what "Self-Determination Rights" are ... is knowing it is the exact opposite of what WEF minions are doing worldwide with their Technocratic Tyrannical Dystopian "Global Governance" aka "Agenda2030" & "NetZero2050"

• Same people pushing for conditional version of U.B.I.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[ExomatrixTV]

Former WEF 'Global Leader for Tomorrow' turned whistleblower, economist Professor Richard Werner, explains how—according to his sources—CBDC will ultimately be held on small microchips implanted under the skin, and Universal Basic Income U.B.I. will be used to bribe people into accepting this gross invasion of their freedom, privacy and bodily autonomy.

• Full Interview:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=acBcLPlsqyA

• Warning from 2009 (15 years ago):

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=oygBg6ETYIM

Nicholas Rockefeller Admitted The Elite's Goal Is A 100% Microchipped And Enslaved World Population! ... Most people assumed it was "far-fetched" to even consider this ever to going to happen.

• America: Freedom to Fascism (2006 film by Aaron Russo)
• Aaron Russo's "MAD AS HELL" Presentation in 1996

Source: https://www.rumble.com/video/v2rt4m2/?pub=ir01b