Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

[Harmony]

Your post #100 above Bill got me thinking of the many stories my old friend has told me over the years. She can swear so beautifully, just at the right time with the right stress where no other words would work half as well.


Then that got me thinking, how sometimes with all the most exasperating news lately, and I don’t usually find a need to swear that much at all, but the F’off seems to roll off my minds voice more often as I can not think of anything else to say now sometimes with all the talk of mandating the most outrageous things ever imaginable not so long ago.


Then I was thinking with all the folk about now that are fed up, if we ever end up in an old folks home or have a stroke, god forbid, and we need to use cards with words on them to communicate, we will just need a few cards with words like “off”, “yes,” “no” or “it” to go along with one big F card.

[Mari]

Posted by Harmony (here)
Your post #100 above Bill got me thinking of the many stories my old friend has told me over the years. She can swear so beautifully, just at the right time with the right stress where no other words would work half as well.


Then that got me thinking, how sometimes with all the most exasperating news lately, and I don’t usually find a need to swear that much at all, but the F’off seems to roll off my minds voice more often as I can not think of anything else to say now sometimes with all the talk of mandating the most outrageous things ever imaginable not so long ago.


Then I was thinking with all the folk about now that are fed up, if we ever end up in an old folks home or have a stroke, god forbid, and we need to use cards with words on them to communicate, we will just need a few cards with words like “off”, “yes,” “no” or “it” to go along with one big F card.

I'll make my own version of card, letters writ large, if I ever get in that situation...it's one of my current favourite expletives and It was recently explosively employed upon seeing yet another cretinous tabloid headline here in the UK, about how ordinary everyday things 'can give you a heart attack'. (covering up for the countless vaccine injuries and deaths in healthy adults and children which are getting embarrassingly numerous) .
In this particular case it was 'Gardening can give you a heart attack' (trying to divorce those pesky green-fingered die-hards from the land) I had no trouble whatsoever in coming out with hearty 'Piss-Off!' and then some, and it will be my go-to Card whenever they try to interfere with me, either on my doorstep or in a nursing home.

[Johnnycomelately]

Hey what about this, does it qualify? Anybody else agree that heroic deeds might merit some slack about garbage etc.? I think this story, as written, is a sad example of deluded perfectionist idealist prescriptionist dumbass hopium, a steaming pile of stinky sentiment, all four corners’ debris field of the crash of what was, once, our plane of excellence. Oof.

Edit to say, I very much appreciate and laud the man Nirmal Purja, ostensibly the spokesman/impetus for this story. Please read of his exploits to the various tops of this world, he is warp-drive compared to us normies.

https://www.climbing.com/news/k2-tra...ste-sickening/

“K2, the second-highest peak in the world, has remained relatively free of the commercial circus common on Mount Everest, but this year the number of climbers ballooned. Thus far in 2022, some 200 people reached the 28,251-foot summit, including a record-setting 145 people on a single day. Prior to this year, only about 300 people had summited the mountain, ever. This week we saw reports of another Everest-like occurrence on the mountain: heaps of trash.
A few days ago Nirmal Purja’s Nimsdai Foundation posted a video of the colorful carnage at camp two (21,980’). As dramatic strings play in the background, the camera pans across the steep snow slope to reveal dozens of flattened and shredded tents, ropes, pickets, and oxygen canisters. Nirmal Purja, who famously set the speed record for the world’s 14 highest peaks, led a team on the mountain this season and reported that he almost threw up from the smell. Among the refuse left behind is human waste, which doesn’t decompose at altitude and creates serious health risks, since climbers need to melt snow for drinking water.”

“The issue of trash on the world’s highest peaks isn’t new. Everest often gets referred to as the world’s highest landfill, and Outside has reported on the trash (and bodies) piling up every year. But the issue has historically been associated more strongly with Everest, in large part because of the huge crowds. The recent video was particularly jarring because K2 is climbed by far fewer people, because it is more technical and dangerous. Prior to this year, for every four climbers attempting the peak, one would die.
In response to the uproar following his by-then viral trash video, Purja added that the litter shouldn’t necessarily be perceived as malice. “If a climber is ill or struggling, they need to get down the mountains [sic] asap—they may die if they stay to pick up their gear,” he wrote. “Obviously, those climbers that can bring down rubbish, 100 percent should.””

“But that explanation can’t account for the entirety of the problem. Eric Gilbertson, an independent climber who summited without using supplemental oxygen, compared the situation to nearby Broad Peak in a post on an online forum: “I was surprised how much trash was in this camp given that the camps on Broad were generally clean. Both peaks had a similar number of climbers registered for permits and [camp one and camp two] on Broad were also small. The only difference I can think of is K2 has almost exclusively guided groups while Broad had a high percentage of independent groups. Perhaps independent groups clean up after themselves better and don’t leave old tents on the mountain? I’m not sure.”
Gilbertson might be onto something with that analysis. Adrian Ballinger, a professional climber, IFMGA guide, and owner of Alpenglow Expeditions, which leads trips on peaks from Everest to Aconcagua, weighed in: “I think the problem is inexperienced people led by inexperienced high-altitude workers led by inexperienced or unethical expedition leaders.”
In order to offer expedition climbs to clients at a lower price, some operators will opt not to Sherpa or high-altitude workers to pack out trash and gear. “Companies have told me that the reason they don’t bring things like tents down, is they can buy new tents from China that are cheaper than paying Sherpa to go up and do extra rotations and bring their equipment down,” Ballinger says.
Once that trash is on the mountain for a season of melt-freeze cycles, it becomes embedded into the ice and is incredibly difficult to chop out and remove.
As the waste problems have increased, so too have removal efforts. In 2019, cleanup crews hauled some 24,000 pounds of trash off of Mount Everest. Purja is currently raising money to pay for a team of Sherpa to deep clean both Everest and K2 by removing trash and old, dangerous ropes.”

“But while cleanup expeditions are productive, the culture of climbing these peaks has to shift in order to effect meaningful change. Ballinger ran a clean-up on Ama Dablam in 2010, but felt that it actually gave companies permission to do less. “Until we change the culture, a cleanup expedition just encourages poor behavior,” says Ballinger. Two years after the big clean, the trash problem on Ama Dablam was worse than it had ever been before.
Ballinger believes that the movement toward a better mountain experience has to come from the operators, and that clients have to demand it. Many companies, both local and Western operators, pay their support staff to clean up their expedition’s trash. By choosing to climb with these outfitters, prospective clients can support these ethical practices with their wallets.
“If you’re leaving an 8,000-meter peak as a client feeling a little dirty inside about what might have happened on your trip, whether that’s frostbite on your Sherpa or the fact that you left all your poop at camp two—who wants that?” says Ballinger. “None of us are going to be proud of climbing these peaks anymore.””

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Johnnycomelately (here)
Hey what about this, does it qualify? Anybody else agree that heroic deeds might merit some slack about garbage etc.? I think this story, as written, is a sad example of deluded perfectionist idealist prescriptionist dumbass hopium, a steaming pile of stinky sentiment, all four corners’ debris field of the crash of what was, once, our plane of excellence. Oof.

No, it doesn't qualify at all, and trashing a beautiful and majestic natural mountain environment (which is what this is all about) is nothing to do with people's personal behavior with one another. That's the topic of this thread.

BUT, littering and disrespecting the Himalayas is something I care about and do know something about, so for sure it'd be a justifiable new thread topic in another forum section.

[DeeMetrios]

Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise ...
100% agree .

[TEOTWAIKI]

Not trying to make this a mountaineering thread but Purja was mentioned and I just finished watching his documentary called, "14 Peaks: Nothing Is Impossible" and would recommend it to anyone that likes mountain climbing documentaries. It is excellent!

Sorry if this needs to be on another thread...

[ExomatrixTV]

• Living in brutal self-honesty does not mean you think you are "flawless", but at least you are willing to learn & improve yourself no matter what!

As someone who is Dutch (born & raised) most who are real people from The Netherlands are KNOWN to be unfiltered, coming across "arrogant" and-or "rude", blunt, super frank, outspoken, straightforward, highly pragmatic but NOT claiming to be "all knowing", there is always room for improvement! ... If you are surrounded by people who do the same, you can sense if someone has "evil intent" or allows everybody to have their own personal growth dealing with controversial issues ... It is all "trial & error" learning from mistakes and move on!

When you get a genuine, honest feedback that is 100% truthful from the perspective of someone, it does not mean that person is not willing to learn new insights it may have overlooked. If you are surrounded by people NOT giving truthful "feedback" >>> How on earth should you improve yourself if they think you can not handle the truth?

There are 100s of very good YT videos explaining WHY the Dutch are like that and how it is often seen as very liberating for many foreigners living for a couple of months here. They see the practical benefits of being "brutally honest" and actually mean what you say .... not "playing nice" all the time ... If a Dutch person is nice it is mostly 100% genuine without "hidden agendas" without being conditional and so many outside The Netherlands do not get that (sadly enough!).

• There is so much more I can say about the psychology behind all this, but I leave that for a different time.

What I notice with many (not all) people living in the USA but much more with people living in UK that their 3 most used common phrases I personally will NEVER use or have to use ever!

• 01. "To be frank ..." (then saying something that is more truthful).
• 02. "To be honest ..." (then saying something that is more honest).
• 03. "To be fair ..." (then saying something that is more balanced & fair).

Every time when I hear someone using 01. and or 02. and or 03. I always say: "WHAT (THE F) IS WRONG BEING ALWAYS FRANK, HONEST & FAIR?"

The world would be really better place if people STOP lying to themselves and to others "to fit in" and call it being "social".

No wonder the world is a big mess, there are also "social" types in The Netherlands "acting nice & empathic" but they can easily change in collectivist tyrants imposing stuff and "demanding" stuff and become "authoritarians" claiming to be "inclusive" and "tolerant" but are obviously NOT ... They lie to or deceive themselves, beLIEving they "are" what they claim ... This self-deception rhetoric often happens in a "hive mind" aka "group think", collectivist setting, not really take any responsibility of their own quality of thinking (acting accordingly). They rather hide behind the mainstream pushed narratives (whatever that is) and we have seen that happening in 2020 onward with countless examples!

I personally met & experienced all kinds of non-Dutch people who totally get it what I am saying ... and they have severe issues to practice above insights & wisdom in their own country because they are in a small minority ... Thus, have less experience how to live your life to the fullest! ... If you are surrounded by people lying to themselves, it can be highly depressing dealing with that day in day out ...

• Just do a YouTube search "Dutch Directness" see: youtube.com/results?search_query=dutch+directness (100s of different non-Dutch people explaining their experiences in The Netherlands 🇳🇱 living here for months!).

cheers,
John Kuhles

• source

[Abondance]

Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)

• Living in brutal self-honesty does not mean you think you are "flawless", but at least you are willing to learn & improve yourself no matter what!

As someone who is Dutch (born & raised) most who are real people from The Netherlands are KNOWN to be unfiltered, coming across "arrogant" and-or "rude", blunt, super frank, outspoken, straightforward, highly pragmatic but NOT claiming to be "all knowing", there is always room for improvement! ... If you are surrounded by people who do the same, you can sense if someone has "evil intent" or allows everybody to have their own personal growth dealing with controversial issues ... It is all "trial & error" learning from mistakes and move on!

When you get a genuine, honest feedback that is 100% truthful from the perspective of someone, it does not mean that person is not willing to learn new insights it may have overlooked. If you are surrounded by people NOT giving truthful "feedback" >>> How on earth should you improve yourself if they think you can not handle the truth?

There are 100s of very good YT videos explaining WHY the Dutch are like that and how it is often seen as very liberating for many foreigners living for a couple of months here. They see the practical benefits of being "brutally honest" and actually mean what you say .... not "playing nice" all the time ... If a Dutch person is nice it is mostly 100% genuine without "hidden agendas" without being conditional and so many outside The Netherlands do not get that (sadly enough!).

• There is so much more I can say about the psychology behind all this, but I leave that for a different time.

What I notice with many (not all) people living in the USA but much more with people living in UK that their 3 most used common phrases I personally will NEVER use or have to use ever!

• 01. "To be frank ..." (then saying something that is more truthful).
• 02. "To be honest ..." (then saying something that is more honest).
• 03. "To be fair ..." (then saying something that is more balanced & fair).

Every time when I hear someone using 01. and or 02. and or 03. I always say: "WHAT (THE F) IS WRONG BEING ALWAYS FRANK, HONEST & FAIR?"

The world would be really better place if people STOP lying to themselves and to others "to fit in" and call it being "social".

No wonder the world is a big mess, there are also "social" types in The Netherlands "acting nice & empathic" but they can easily change in collectivist tyrants imposing stuff and "demanding" stuff and become "authoritarians" claiming to be "inclusive" and "tolerant" but are obviously NOT ... They lie to or deceive themselves, beLIEving they "are" what they claim ... This self-deception rhetoric often happens in a "hive mind" aka "group think", collectivist setting, not really take any responsibility of their own quality of thinking (acting accordingly). They rather hide behind the mainstream pushed narratives (whatever that is) and we have seen that happening in 2020 onward with countless examples!

I personally met & experienced all kinds of non-Dutch people who totally get it what I am saying ... and they have severe issues to practice above insights & wisdom in their own country because they are in a small minority ... Thus, have less experience how to live your life to the fullest! ... If you are surrounded by people lying to themselves, it can be highly depressing dealing with that day in day out ...

• Just do a YouTube search "Dutch Directness" see: youtube.com/results?search_query=dutch+directness (100s of different non-Dutch people explaining their experiences in The Netherlands 🇳🇱 living here for months!).

cheers,

JohnKuhles

• source

Some years ago I would go to the Netherlands at least once a year for business, our main supplier being in Amersfoort. After shopping, my companion and I used to go to Amersterdam for the evening and I always had great memories there ( except restaurants, very few offer good food, and the most horrible ice cream I’ve ever eaten, apart from good quality fish. And pickpockets but this is part of the usual wildlife in tourist areas of large cities).
The behaviors were sometimes surprising and so fun (a little crazy) and very spontaneous, which is probably in line with what you describe John.
It was the only country where people volunteered to help, while we were trying to find our way back on a map of the city and even the relationship with our supplier was of great quality and friendly. I was pretty upset to see what was happening with the farmers there as well, to see those blows from the government.