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Thread: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

  1. Link to Post #6681
    Canada Avalon Member Johnnycomelately's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Hi shaberon. Wasn’t sure who you were spanking until I got down to the Putin quote.

    Not sure what you mean by those kick-outs. How would you characterize the Ugandan asians all getting kicked out of there by Idi, and Jews getting kicked out of anywhere?

    Just for the record, I don’t recall Mashika and FA’s referenced convo, but in my experience, when she’s in warrior mode she does not do diplomacy. Hi Mashika! - ♥️

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    My goodness, Mashika, you certainly have a knack for shutting down any attempts at real dialogue.
    Brian, you don't want 'real dialogue'. You're just grandstanding for the US-intel-controlled mainstream media.


    Are we there yet?

    This is the thing that native English speakers need to get. The "collective west" has not entered the world Dialogue/Diplomacy table yet.

    This is in light of at least thirteen centuries of its attempt to assert an identity.

    You need to understand that the others just give you ear service, while highly disparate groups of "minor players" actually have had a civilized way of working on this the whole time.

    Just think of the Jesuits being kicked out of every country, and the Ming Empire kicking Europeans out altogether. Nothing is any different now, in terms of a two-way channel.

    In the words of Putin to his experiences, "I'm fed up with it".

    We should get back to around page one, with a criterion of being taken seriously at all. Or, here, page three hundred and something, the German Chinese article about the Emperor of Man owning everything with his Mind, having replaced the physical world with Words. No lack of examples about this, but that one was cutting edge.

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  3. Link to Post #6682
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)
    • CNN Banned From Ukraine After Showing N@zi Salute:

    "I am a 71 year old canadian. My father, Steve Elniski, fought the nazis for 6 years in WWII as an RCAF pilot seconded to the RAF. I am horribly disgusted with the canadian cbc broadcaster for turning a blind eye to ukrainian nazis while "covering" the war. I sm particularly disgusted and outraged that the canadian deputy prime minister, chrystia freeland has done photo ops with nazis. She speaks ukrainian and knowingly supports the murderous nazis and is indignant when people like me call her out. She has zero chance of getting re-elected here in alberta canada".
    Whilst in London on Monday I was walking through Lincoln's Inn Fields and saw on one building a Ukraine flag flying. So, being curious, sought to see what the building was home to.

    It was the home of the Royal Canadian Airforce Overseas HQ.

    Why aren't they flying the Canadian flag? (rhetorical question )
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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  5. Link to Post #6683
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    A small sample of reality, for those who support sending more arms and money to Ukraine in a fake "unjustified" war the west keeps pushing because they are making lots of money out of it

    Who cares about nameless soldiers, right? Only their families know who they were, the news of their deaths will never reach the western world, so they can be disposed at will as long as the money keeps flowing

    That's what truly happens out there



    But like i always say:

    "It happened very far away, and didn't happen to my family or anyone i know, so it doesn't matter, life is life"

    Ukrainians are disposable, there are lots of them and they are very valuable (in dollars) so let's keep sending them to the grinder and then lie and say that it's the Russian the ones turning into dead meat, it keeps western people going with their approval and donations

    The truth is that the global western corrupt powers would like to see the entire Ukraine and Russian/Belorussian land as a wasteland, then they could occupy it and live of it for centuries to come. We all know that's true

    And here's another truth: We all know the Nazi are well and alive in the west, working hard at the top level positions of power in all the 'collective west' or 'international community' governments. That's why they hate Russia and even Ukraine so much, because that's the enemy to defeat, they want them gone so bad they can barely hide it.

    But "Putin's war", right?
    Last edited by Mashika; 17th November 2022 at 10:59.
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  7. Link to Post #6684
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    I could do without the sad music, the entirety of the visuals is more than enough, and to know that there's a family behind every single one of those flags and tombs

    It's ridiculous, but it's true, that we here feel more pain watching this, than the people who are 'supposedly' in full support of the Ukrainian people

    Here's something to ponder about:

    Entire families have by now gone forever, stopped by the death of the last one that carried their name and died for an idiotic push for money just so that the western governments could survive a few more decades and not lose their control of the world.

    So now, families that existed for centuries, see their last one die on some field and the name and family stops existing, there will be no kid following the steps of his dad or mom, they are dead now. Multiply that by the thousands and you see what's happening for real

    Only grandmothers remain around, waiting to die and then that's it, everything is gone
    Last edited by Mashika; 17th November 2022 at 11:08.
    Tired

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  9. Link to Post #6685
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Full Front Update | Kherson | Zaporizhzhia | Donbass | Ukrainian Concentration of Forces

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0WLfhCsXAs
    Tired

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  11. Link to Post #6686
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    This really should be front page news, but of course the Nazi collaborators (and their apologists) in 'western' governments simply won't encourage their lackeys in their media to even go there.

    The data is in:

    Blowback: Italian police bust Azov-tied Nazi cell planning terror attacks
    By Alexander Rubinstein
    November 15th, 2022

    Source: The Grayzone

    The arrest of Italian neo-Nazis affiliated with the Ukrainian Azov Battalion highlights the terrifying potential for blowback from the Ukraine proxy war

    Italian police announced a series of raids against the neo-Nazi Order of Hagal organization. Accused of stockpiling weapons and planning terror attacks, the group has established operational ties to the Ukrainian Azov Battalion.

    Five members of an Italian neo-Nazi organization known as the “Order of Hagal” were arrested on November 15th while an additional member remains wanted by authorities. He happened to be in Ukraine, fighting Russian forces alongside the Azov Battalion, which has been formally integrated into the Ukrainian military.

    The “Hagal” members are accused of plotting terrorist attacks on civilian and police targets. A sixth member of the Hagal group, now considered a fugitive, is in Ukraine and embedded with the Azov Battalion, a neo-Nazi paramilitary group that has been incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard.

    Members of the Order of Hagal reportedly maintained “direct and frequent” contacts over Telegram with not just the Azov Battalion, but also the neo-Nazi Ukrainian military formations Right Sector and Centuria, “probably in the view of possible recruitment into the ranks of these fighting groups,” according to Italian media.

    The police investigation was launched in 2019 and has included extensive computer searches and wiretapping; tactics which have revealed members of the group’s intent on carrying out violent acts in Italy.

    One of the arrested members, Giampiero Testa, was reportedly “dangerously close to far-right Ukrainian Nationalist groups” and was planning an attack on a police station in Marigliano in Naples, according to wiretaps. The fugitive Azov fighter, Anton Radomsky, is a Ukrainian citizen who has lived in Italy but is currently fighting on behalf of the Ukrainian armed forces. Authorities say Radomsky planned to attack the “Volcano Buono” shopping mall in Naples.

    In a January 2021 wiretap, Testa said he “would make a massacre like the one in New Zealand, but I wouldn’t go to the blacks, I would go to the barracks in Marigliano.” He was referring to the New Zealand mosque shooter who claimed to have visited Ukraine and wore a Nazi Sonnenrad, or “black sun” patch on his flak jacket as he slew 51 worshippers. The symbol, as the New York Times noted in 2019, is “commonly used by the Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian neo-Nazi paramilitary organization.”

    In February 2021, Testa ranted over the phone, stating “Like [racist Christchurch mass shooter] Tarrant… tututututu. In the Marigliano barracks. Boom boom, I killed them all.”

    Around the same time, police monitoring the Order of Hagal organization seized ”soft air weapons” that could be “easily modified to fire authentic bullets,” ammunition, tactical gear, and even a grenade launcher. The group is also accused of conducting paramilitary trainings in Naples and Caserta as well as seminars promoting white supremacy and Holocaust denial.

    Footage of the arrests broadcast by the news channel Sky Tg24 shows long knives, a Nordic-style axe, a bat emblazoned with the words “Leader Mussolini,” a swastika flag, a gas mask, an Azov Battalion t-shirt and “Valhalla Express,” a memoir by an Azov fighter.

    The TG24 report is below.



    But Ukraine is not the only country to have been visited by members of the Order of Hagal; “some members” also traveled to Israel to train in Krav Maga and the use of long and short weapons,” according to police officials. In fact, they were even given diplomas for completing the training.

    The police operation spanned thirteen provinces in Italy and has included “26 personal, home and computer searches,” according to the police press release announcing the arrests.

    Among those arrested for “the crime of association with the purpose of terrorism or subversion of the democratic order” are Maurizio Ammendola, the founder of the group, its vice president Michele Rinaldi, and members Giampiero Testa and Massimiliano Mariano.

    The fifth arrested member, Fabio Colarossi, is accused of spreading neo-Nazi propaganda.

    While Nazism has found a safe space in the Ukrainian armed forces, the arrests and warrants against the members of the Order of Hagal that planned terror attacks suggests the potential for blowback from NATO’s Ukraine proxy war, as battle-hardened, ideologically extreme veterans encouraged by Western governments and supported with US and EU aid return home to cities across Europe.

    “The high availability of weapons during the current conflict will result in the proliferation in illicit arms in the post-conflict phase,” Interpol Secretary General Juergen Stock has warned.

    As The Grayzone has reported, a 2022 Department of Homeland Security document acknowledged that “Ukrainian nationalist groups including the Azov Movement are actively recruiting racially or ethnically motivated violent extremist white supremacists to join various neo-Nazi volunteer battalions in the war against Russia” but noted a key intelligence gap: “What kind of training are foreign fighters receiving in Ukraine that they could possibly proliferate in US based militia and white nationalist groups?”
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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  13. Link to Post #6687
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    My goodness, Mashika, you certainly have a knack for shutting down any attempts at real dialogue.
    Brian, you don't want 'real dialogue'. You're just grandstanding for the US-intel-controlled mainstream media.

    When I suggested quite a solid list of reliable sources of accurate information, this was your reply:
    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    Thanks Bill. I shall do some research on the merits of these. I've not heard of most of them, but I suspect that they are not part of the fabric of my world view.
    B
    I feel I have to say that I'd bet quite a lot you never 'researched' anything. And your 'world view', on which your sense of self may be deeply dependent, is equally deeply flawed. I can state that with some certainty.

    It reminds me of something i often saw happen on ATS, i remember at least one instance that truly made me laugh hard. But even more i enjoyed calling that person on his BS


    Remember when some senator or similar US politician claimed Russia had already placed nuclear weapons in Venezuela? And then he got called on it and he had to go out and tell the press that he was wrong and he had no evidence of it?


    The ATS conversation went like this:


    ATS member: Russia placed nuclear weapons in Venezuela!
    Me: No it is not true, the politician that said that came out to clarify and said he was wrong, here's a video link to him saying so!
    ATS member: Oh i did not see that, i'll have to watch that, "very interesting"...


    Next day:
    ATS member: The Russians are even now placing nuclear weapons in Venezuela!
    Me: What? You again with that? Just yesterday i told you it was wrong, i even shared a video of the very same guy that claimed that retracting his claim because he invented it all! What's wrong with you?
    ATS member: "Radio silence..."



    I tend to think the "research" and the "Food for thought" and even the "i have to think about it and will come back to you" are just ways to escape the situation, and then the 'research' is just basically looking at other videos with self-confirmation and then throwing away any actual facts that refute the imaginary world to the garbage bin while spitting out insults and making lame excuses for why things are not how they wish they were


    But it's fine, they can just eat another cookie and then everything is better next day



    LOL
    Tired

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    When i was arrested in Shanghai the US





    Everything they accuse others, they do themselves

    Tired

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...30247834845187




    https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...53725212405761



    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    https://twitter.com/ReadovkaWorld/st...49783849705472




    https://twitter.com/ReadovkaWorld/st...57015924531200



    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    https://twitter.com/ReadovkaWorld/st...51429388472322

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...69679371341824

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...33378370670596




    https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...33534319067136




    https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...32348497469441



    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...23547144765440




    https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...23553700474882

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/RealAlexRubi/sta...66619230457858



    https://twitter.com/TheGrayzoneNews/...66520509120515




    https://thegrayzone.com/2022/11/15/b...d-nazi-terror/


    Blowback: Italian police bust Azov-tied Nazi cell planning terror attacks

    The arrest of Italian neo-Nazis affiliated with the Ukrainian Azov Battalion highlights the terrifying potential for blowback from the Ukraine proxy war


    Italian police announced a series of raids against the neo-Nazi Order of Hagal organization. Accused of stockpiling weapons and planning terror attacks, the group has established operational ties to the Ukrainian Azov Battalion.

    Five members of an Italian neo-Nazi organization known as the “Order of Hagal” were arrested on November 15th while an additional member remains wanted by authorities. He happened to be in Ukraine, fighting Russian forces alongside the Azov Battalion, which has been formally integrated into the Ukrainian military.

    The “Hagal” members are accused of plotting terrorist attacks on civilian and police targets. A sixth member of the Hagal group, now considered a fugitive, is in Ukraine and embedded with the Azov Battalion, a neo-Nazi paramilitary group that has been incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard.

    Members of the Order of Hagal reportedly maintained “direct and frequent” contacts over Telegram with not just the Azov Battalion, but also the neo-Nazi Ukrainian military formations Right Sector and Centuria, “probably in the view of possible recruitment into the ranks of these fighting groups,” according to Italian media.

    The police investigation was launched in 2019 and has included extensive computer searches and wiretapping; tactics which have revealed members of the group’s intent on carrying out violent acts in Italy.



    One of the arrested members, Giampiero Testa, was reportedly “dangerously close to far-right Ukrainian Nationalist groups” and was planning an attack on a police station in Marigliano in Naples, according to wiretaps. The fugitive Azov fighter, Anton Radomsky, is a Ukrainian citizen who has lived in Italy but is currently fighting on behalf of the Ukrainian armed forces. Authorities say Radomsky planned to attack the “Volcano Buono” shopping mall in Naples.

    In a January 2021 wiretap, Testa said he “would make a massacre like the one in New Zealand, but I wouldn’t go to the blacks, I would go to the barracks in Marigliano.” He was referring to the New Zealand mosque shooter who claimed to have visited Ukraine and wore a Nazi Sonnenrad, or “black sun” patch on his flak jacket as he slew 51 worshippers. The symbol, as the New York Times noted in 2019, is “commonly used by the Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian neo-Nazi paramilitary organization.”

    In February 2021, Testa ranted over the phone, stating “Like [racist Christchurch mass shooter] Tarrant… tututututu. In the Marigliano barracks. Boom boom, I killed them all.”

    Around the same time, police monitoring the Order of Hagal organization seized ”soft air weapons” that could be “easily modified to fire authentic bullets,” ammunition, tactical gear, and even a grenade launcher. The group is also accused of conducting paramilitary trainings in Naples and Caserta as well as seminars promoting white supremacy and Holocaust denial.

    Footage of the arrests broadcast by the news channel Sky Tg24 shows long knives, a Nordic-style axe, a bat emblazoned with the words “Leader Mussolini,” a swastika flag, a gas mask, an Azov Battalion t-shirt and “Valhalla Express,” a memoir by an Azov fighter.

    The TG24 report is below.


    But Ukraine is not the only country to have been visited by members of the Order of Hagal; “some members” also traveled to Israel to train in Krav Maga and the use of long and short weapons,” according to police officials. In fact, they were even given diplomas for completing the training.

    The police operation spanned thirteen provinces in Italy and has included “26 personal, home and computer searches,” according to the police press release announcing the arrests.

    Among those arrested for “the crime of association with the purpose of terrorism or subversion of the democratic order” are Maurizio Ammendola, the founder of the group, its vice president Michele Rinaldi, and members Giampiero Testa and Massimiliano Mariano.

    The fifth arrested member, Fabio Colarossi, is accused of spreading neo-Nazi propaganda.

    While Nazism has found a safe space in the Ukrainian armed forces, the arrests and warrants against the members of the Order of Hagal that planned terror attacks suggests the potential for blowback from NATO’s Ukraine proxy war, as battle-hardened, ideologically extreme veterans encouraged by Western governments and supported with US and EU aid return home to cities across Europe.

    “The high availability of weapons during the current conflict will result in the proliferation in illicit arms in the post-conflict phase,” Interpol Secretary General Juergen Stock has warned.

    As The Grayzone has reported, a 2022 Department of Homeland Security document acknowledged that “Ukrainian nationalist groups including the Azov Movement are actively recruiting racially or ethnically motivated violent extremist white supremacists to join various neo-Nazi volunteer battalions in the war against Russia” but noted a key intelligence gap: “What kind of training are foreign fighters receiving in Ukraine that they could possibly proliferate in US based militia and white nationalist groups?”
    "Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/statu...67494080233472




    Ukrainian propagandists,are refuting the existence of an unspoken agreement between Moscow and Budapest calling it fake news

    Transcarpathia and Chernigov regions are the only regions where critical infrastructure facilities have not been hit since October 10. Local journalists write that against this background, the popularity of the Hungarian leadership, which has open ties with Moscow, is growing in Transcarpathia.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://www.rt.com/news/566682-ukrai...nsky-talks-us/

    Ukraine confirms signals from West on peace talks

    Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky has acknowledged that Kiev’s foreign backers have been speaking to him about the possibility of peace talks with Moscow.

    “I had received signals from state leaders, who said: ‘We think [Russian President Vladimir] Putin wants direct negotiations.’ And I said: ‘We will offer a public format [for the talks] because Russia is waging a public war against Ukraine,’” Zelensky told journalists on Wednesday.

    “I’m ready to recommend such a format. I’ll discuss with my colleagues how to do it,” he said, adding that he does not want to have any “backstage contact” with Russia.

    Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Thursday that “it’s hard to imagine public negotiations. Such a thing doesn’t exist.”

    “One thing is obvious: the Ukrainian side doesn’t want any talks,” and that’s why Russia’s military operation in the neighboring country will continue until all of its goals are achieved, Peskov said.

    Recent reports indicate that Washington has been privately pushing Kiev to drop its uncompromising rejection of the peace process with Moscow. Last week, the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, suggested that a Ukrainian military victory might be unachievable and that winter could provide an opportunity to begin talks with Russia.

    Zelensky also said he does not believe that the US, which has been among Kiev’s main backers amid the conflict with Moscow, was discussing ways to end the fighting behind Ukraine’s back.

    Kiev’s terms for talks ‘unrealistic’ – Moscow
    Kiev’s terms for talks ‘unrealistic’ – Moscow
    “We have an agreement that they – the US – don’t discuss Ukraine without us… Is it really the case? We trust our partners,” he said.

    The statement follows talks between the head of Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR), Sergey Naryshkin, and CIA Director William Burns, which took place in Türkiye earlier this week. Both the Kremlin and the White House confirmed the meeting, with the US side saying that it was aimed at keeping channels of communication open, and that a Ukrainian settlement was not on the agenda.

    Zelensky has been sending mixed messages about the possibility of peace talks with Moscow throughout the conflict, even signing a decree in October that officially made it impossible for him to negotiate with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin.

    In a video address to the G20 on Tuesday, the Ukrainian leader said he was “convinced now is the time when the Russian destructive war must and can be stopped.” Conflict between Moscow and Kiev should conclude “fairly” and on the basis of the UN Charter, Zelensky insisted, stressing that Ukraine “shouldn’t be offered compromises with its sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence” in exchange for peace. He also claimed that Moscow should not be trusted, warning that Russia could use the cessation of hostilities “to grow its forces and launch a new series of terror and global destabilization.”

    READ MORE: Zelensky rules out return to Minsk peace deals
    Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov reacted to the speech by saying that Russia is ready for talks, unlike Ukraine, which puts forward “invariably unrealistic and inadequate” terms for dialogue. According to Lavrov, Zelensky’s address was full of “militant, Russophobic and aggressive rhetoric.”
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    [url]https://twitter.com/tassagency_en/status/1593270266020380674




    Russia to review Dutch court’s decision in MH17 crash case, MFA official says

    Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur crashed in the Donetsk Region of Ukraine on July 17, 2014, killing 298 people from ten countries

    MOSCOW, November 17. /TASS/. Moscow will scrutinize a Dutch court’s decision in the case of the 2014 Boeing crash in the Donetsk Region of Ukraine, Russian Foreign Ministry Deputy Spokesman Ivan Nechayev said at a briefing on Thursday.

    "We will analyze this decision because as far as all these issues go, every nuance matters," he said. "We will be ready to make a comment after examining this legal document," Nechayev added.

    Earlier on Thursday, a Dutch court began ruling on the MH17 crash case, saying that the Boeing had been downed by a Buk missile fired from near the Pervomayskoye settlement, which was at the time controlled by the Donetsk People’s Republic’s (DPR) militia.

    Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur crashed in the Donetsk Region of Ukraine on July 17, 2014, killing 298 people from ten countries. In June 2019, the Joint Investigative Team (JIT) announced that it had identified a group of four people, suspected of being involved in the incident. They are former militia leader in the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic Igor Girkin, also known as Igor Strelkov, and his subordinates Sergey Dubinsky, Oleg Pulatov and Leonid Kharchenko. The trial against them began in the Netherlands on March 9, 2020. They are accused of delivering a Buk missile system from Russia to Ukraine. The trial is taking place in the absence of the accused, with two Dutch lawyers representing Pulatov’s interests. The prosecution demands life imprisonment for all the defendants. Lawyers also seek material compensation for the relatives of the victims. Russian officials have repeatedly expressed their lack of confidence in the results of the JIT’s work, and pointed out the groundlessness of the accusations, as well as the unwillingness to use Moscow’s conclusions during the investigation.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/SputnikInt/statu...58693436788736



    https://sputniknews.com/20221117/nat...medium=twitter


    NATO Admits Zelensky 'Openly Lied' About Poland Strike as Observers Slam Kiev for Pushing for WW3

    The world held its breath on Tuesday after a missile struck a Polish farm near the Ukrainian border, killing two people. Ukrainian officials immediately accused Moscow, while their Western patrons brought up invoking the NATO Treaty’s article on collective defense. It soon emerged that the missile was Ukrainian.



    Western support for the Zelensky government is showing signs of strain, with Kiev’s stubborn insistence that the S-300 air defense missile which fell on the village of Przewodow, southeastern Poland was Russian despite evidence to the contrary adding insult to injury.
    “This is getting ridiculous. The Ukrainians are destroying confidence in them. Nobody is blaming Ukraine and they are openly lying. This is more destructive than the missile,” an unnamed diplomat from a NATO country told British media after Ukraine’s president reiterated that Moscow was responsible for the incident.
    “I have no doubt from the evening report to me personally – from the commander of the air force to commander-in-chief [Valerii] Zaluzhny – that it was not our missile or our missile strike,” Zelensky said Wednesday night. “It makes no sense for me not to trust them,” he stressed.
    Zelensky also demanded that Poland give Ukrainian investigators access to the crash site, saying he couldn’t simply take Warsaw’s word for its conclusions. “If, God forbid, some debris killed these people, we have to apologize. But, sorry, first an investigation, access, the data you have – we want to have this.”
    Moment of Truth
    Even publicly, top Western officials, perhaps cognizant of the dangers of ramping up tensions with Moscow to DEFCON 2, have shown a surprising amount of skepticism toward Kiev’s version of events.
    “There is preliminary information that contests that,” President Joe Biden told reporters on the sidelines of the G20 Summit in Indonesia on Wednesday after being asked if the missile that struck Przewodow was Russian. “I don’t want to say that until we completely investigate. But it is unlikely in the lines of its trajectory that it was fired from Russia,” Biden added.
    Not bad for a president who has gone along with Kiev on virtually all of its claims, from the false flag Bucha massacre to the terror attack against the Crimean Bridge.
    Even Poland’s president, Andrzej Duda, ordinarily an ardent anti-Russia hawk, challenged Kiev’s version of events on the missile incident after initially pointing the finger at Moscow.
    “Ukraine’s defense was launching their missiles in various directions, and it is highly probable that one of these missiles unfortunately fell on Polish territory,” Duda said Wednesday.

    NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg, another member of the ‘blame Russia first and ask questions later’ crowd, similarly admitted that that the deadly incident at Przewodow was not caused by Russia, but tried to spin the story against Moscow anyway.
    “Our preliminary analysis suggests that the incident was likely caused by a Ukrainian air defense missile fired to defend Ukrainian territory against Russian cruise missile attacks. But let me be clear, this is not Ukraine’s fault. Russia bears ultimate responsibility as it continues its illegal war against Ukraine,” Stoltenberg said.
    Among NATO’s European allies, Germany and Hungary called for calm, and for a serious investigation to be carried out before any fingerpointing. “In such a serious matter, there must not be any hasty conclusions about the course of events before [a] careful investigation,” German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said Wednesday.
    “In the current situation, the most important thing is to remain calm,” Hungarian Defense Minister Kristof Szalay-Bobrovniczky recommended Tuesday after convening his country’s Defense Council. “We are also urging ourselves to be very careful not to draw any far-reaching conclusions from this assessment at this time,” he said.


    British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and his Canadian counterpart Justin Trudeau echoed Stoltenberg’s ‘Russia’s not to blame…but it is anyway’ approach, calling for a “full investigation” but stressing that “whatever the outcome of that investigation, Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is squarely to blame for the ongoing violence.”
    Lesser allies made similarly provocative claims, with Estonia’s foreign ministry expressing readiness to “defend every inch of NATO territory,” but Prime Minister Kaja Kallas ‘clarifying’ that “obviously, if the missile that hit Poland was Ukrainian, then it’s clear that it was not an attack on Poland.”
    Hawks Attack
    In Washington, Democratic Senate Foreign Relations chairman Bob Menendez led the charge among hawks apparently seeking to drag the US into an open war with Russia, suggesting that the NATO Charter’s article on collective defense could be triggered if the missile strike was a deliberate provocation.
    “I hope that the Russians apologize quickly for the loss of life and express that it wasn’t intentional. Obviously, if it was intentional, that has all kinds of consequences to it,” Menendez said, before even any preliminary probe results could be published. “It’s definitely an enlargement of the conflict and of course it brings into question Article 5,” he said.


    Chris Coons, another top Senate Democrat, demanded that Russia “recognize this was a tragic mistake,” “apologize for it and offer compensation” to the Poles.
    The cooler, calmer and collected response from the White House was appreciated by the Kremlin, with spokesman Dmitry Peskov lauding Biden’s “restrained…professional reaction” compared to the “hysterical, frenzied, Russophobic” responses uttered by others after Tuesday’s incident.
    The Russian Defense Ministry reported Tuesday that none of its strikes that day hit within 35 km of the Ukrainian-Polish border.
    ‘Absolute Maniac’ Zelensky
    Online, reactions were less restrained, with commentators racking up tens of thousands of likes and retweets slamming Zelensky as an “absolute maniac” attempting to pull the West into a world-ending conflagration with Russia.


    “The missile attack killing two innocent people in Poland was likely from Ukrainian Air Defense. We must stop letting Zelensky demand money and weapons from US taxpayers while he is trying to drag us into WW3. No more money to Ukraine. It’s time to end this war and demand peace,” recently reelected MAGA Republican Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene tweeted.
    “Did Ukraine Try to Lie Us Into WWIII?” former Texas Congressman Ron Paul tweeted, linking to his institute’s Rumble story.
    “Remember yesterday when a Ukrainian missile hit Poland and Zelensky immediately blamed Russia and used the incident to try to pull Western governments into a global nuclear war?” commentator Matt Walsh quipped. “Stop supporting this lunatic,” Kim Dotcom chimed in, listing off some of the inflammatory calls to action against Russia by Kiev over the past 48 hours.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Enough of this clown from Ukraine. Not only has he been a wing of the corruption by the D's through laundering OUR money and being a muppet baby, he would do anything to draw all of the World into this war. You don't ever trust someone who uses his Lygma Johnson to bang on piano keys for a few laughs (whoever laughs at this is also a complete buffoon). Now we must seriously worry about any weapons they may have stockpiled (not sold on black market) that can be used in their new reign of terror across the globe. It will never happen, but now is the perfect time with SFX collapse, to expose all the evil that's been bestowed upon us on the pretense of "Stopping Russia" by the muppet baby and his master stringmen. I refuse to believe ALL the people in our govt are evil. We need the Patriots who roam around Washington to stand up and be heroes.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Ravenlocke (here)
    https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...30247834845187
    ~~~

    A reminder to anyone who may be unaware: we have a whole 1350+ post thread about this, here.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://sputniknews.com/20221117/nat...medium=twitter

    NATO Disarming Its Forces as Ukraine Tries to Provoke World War III

    NATO member states are hollowing out their armed forces in their rush to arm Ukraine for a proxy fight with Russia, defence and foreign affairs experts have said after a stray missile incident undermined trust in the Kiev regime.



    The Kiev regime tested the patience of its Western backers on Tuesday night when President Volodymyr Zelensky demanded NATO intervene militarily against Russian forces — after two people were killed by a stray missile falling in neighbouring Poland.
    After several hours of anonymous briefings from Washington and Polish media reports that two Russian missiles had hit the NATO member, it was confirmed that it was fired from a Ukrainian surface-to-air missile (SAM) battery — although Kiev continues to deny this.
    That has prompted calls from many quarters — including some in the US Republican Party — to cut off the tens of billions of dollars in military aid to Ukraine which has strained the ability of western militaries and arms industries to sustain.


    The US military has reportedly run so low on ammunition for howitzers it supplied to Ukraine that it is looking to buy 100,000 shells from South Korea. But it is not the only country to overextend itself.
    Spain has this week pledged six of its 36 MIM-23 Hawk SAM systems in response to Kiev's call for more air defences against Russian cruise missiles and kamikaze drones.
    Croatia announced on Tuesday that it will send 14 Soviet-made Mi-8 helicopters from a total inventory of 25, although they were due to be phased out of service in 2026 and the air force will run out of spare parts for them in 2023. As for their replacement, Prime Minister Andrej Plenković only hinted that the government was in discussions with the US on buying UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters.
    The Czech Republic has donated 40 T-72 main battle tanks (MBTs) from its small army, while 90 more mothballed examples are being renovated by a private company — paid for by the US and Netherlands. Neighbouring Slovakia has given up its only squadron of fighter jets, 30 BMP-1 infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) and an S-300 SAM system.
    While the US has been the biggest contributor to arming the Kiev regime in money terms, Ukraine's western neighbour Poland has provided more heavy equipment than any other nation, including more than 230 T-72s, 40 BMP-1s, 72 AHS Krab armoured self-propelled heavy howitzers and various other artillery.
    Milking the Cow
    Political analyst and commentator Adriel Kasonta, a former chairman of the International Affairs Committee at the Bow Group think-tank, called attempts to draw NATO into the conflict a "tragedy," adding that "Many actors who have been hostile over the years and over the course of the special operation in Ukraine conducted by Russia [are] trying to use this tragic incident to their advantage."
    The analyst stressed how the incident showed Poland needed to build up its own military capabilities, rather than pouring its equipment into the black hole
    "If Polish air defence was good, it was meeting a military standard, it should see what happened. Predict what happened and provide the answers," Kasonta said.
    However, the commentator believes the Polish government is "malicious and clever" enough to take advantage of the "sad situation" in the village of Przewodow.
    "They will say that, listen, we need more money," Kasonta said. "We need more equipment to be better prepared for possibility of such incidents in the future. So they will milk the cow and ask the United States to either send more equipment or in order to strengthen the eastern flank, send more American troops."
    But citizens of western European countries are "reluctant to suffer" for Ukraine, which is neither a member of the European Union nor of NATO, he stressed.
    "They are not willing to sacrifice the well-being of their own households at the expense of some war that could have been easily prevented if the West and especially United States would have granted a security guarantees to Russia," Kasonta said.


    David T. Pyne, a former US Department of Defenсe officer and member of the EMP Task Force on National and Homeland Security, told Sputnik that the Polish missile incident showed NATO countries should focus on their own defence, not militarising Ukraine.
    "Even after he was presented with evidence that it was one of their own missiles, Ukrainian President Zelensky continued to claim that it was a Russian terror attack on Poland in the hopes that he could persuade NATO to escalate its proxy war against Russia," Pyne said.
    He pointed out the yawning gap between Russia's extensive network of multi-layered and integrated early waring and SAM systems and NATO's handful of outdated and low-performance air defences — many of which are simply air-to-air missiles mounted on ground vehicles.
    "NATO air and missile defences are much more limited than Russian national missile defences," Pyne said, stressing that "this incident as well as the various Russian military drones that have penetrated deep into NATO airspace underscore the need for NATO to greatly increase its missile defence capabilities."
    But he added that the need to re-vamp the West's defence networks would by "greatly lessened if NATO were to recognize Russia’s legitimate security interests in Ukraine and support an immediate cease fire."
    That should be followed by signing a "Conventional Forces in Europe (CFE) II Treaty in which all western NATO troops and Russian troops were withdrawn from Eastern Europe including Ukraine and Belarus."

    Russia has repeatedly warned NATO and other allies of the US against arming Ukraine since the start of its military operation on February 24, saying shipments of weapons into a warzone are legitimate targets.
    Moscow has also said the flow of arms from the West will only prolong the conflict, which Washington is determine to fight to "the last Ukrainian."
    Weaponry supplied to Ukraine has already turned up for sale on the black market across Europe. In August a US broadcaster pulled a documentary by a pro-Ukrainian filmmaker from its website which revealed that just a third of military aid actually made it to the front line. The Pentagon has now set up a 300-strong auditing task-force led by a three-star general at its Ramstein airbase in Germany to keep track of supplies.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Russia Launches Another Missile Strike, Kiev Doubles Down Polish Missile Strike; Xi Crushes Trudeau



    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...96821048299521

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