Pardon me, but - - - Ukraine isn't NAZI

[ozmirage]

https://jewishunpacked.com/can-ukrai...ish-president/

Russian media has repeatedly sought to portray Ukraine as being aligned with Nazism. A claim that the rest of the world categorically rejects.

“The Ukraine on your news and Ukraine in real life are two completely different countries — and the main difference between them is: Ours is real. You are told we are Nazis. But could a people who lost more than 8 million lives in the battle against Nazism support Nazism?” Zelensky asked, addressing the charges directly in Russian.

On May 2nd, in an interview on the Ukrainian president, the Russian Foreign Minister said: “Zelensky is a Jew? Hitler also had Jewish origins. The greatest antisemites are precisely the Jews.”
Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, went on to say that “the fact that [Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky] is a Jew does not negate the Nazi elements in his country.”
“I believe that Adolf Hitler also had Jewish blood,” Lavrov added.

- - - - -
IMHO, denigrating Jews as NAZIs is -ahem- not logical.
If you wish to believe anti-semitic nonsense as "good intelligence" that's your prerogative.
I will bow to the wisdom of the forum, and cease posting on this topic.

[Franny]

Where were you when Ukraine Nazis and Neo-Nazis were bombing in eastern Ukraine fourteen years before Russia moved in to, in their words, de-Nazify and de-militarize Ukraine? The killing, in violation of their agreement, was responsible for over 14,000 deaths. Where were you when Putin offered many times to meet for peace talks and the US instructed Zelenski to refuse as it's a proxy war by the US against Russia? Where were you looking when NATO planted over 60 missile sites around Russia over the decades while telling them they would go no further, but continued to advance? One missile site in Cuba in the 1950s and the US had a meltdown, Russia seems to be made of sterner stuff, they waited and hoped the US would come to its senses, then moved when it crossed one of those famous redlines.

This is not even the tip of the Ukraine Nazi iceberg, merely the slick of water on the top. Nazis have been Ukraine since the 1930 and are well established. We have several threads where you can read the history, such as this one, Ukraine is a Nazi state, don't fall for the lie Posted, no less, by one who was there.

[norman]

NAZI, is a deep rabbit hole in itself.

Is it really a German acronym for a 'socialist workers party' or is it an inside joke among the AshkeNAZI Khazarians who once occupied the land that's now currently identifying itself as Ukraine ?





It all depends how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go.

[Isserley]

Often, during the war, some nasty things happen that would not have happened otherwise or that were not considered important until then.
During the war in Croatia in the 1990s, the so-called Ustaše extremists appeared out of nowhere (stronger than ever) who ideologically identified themselves as far right with nazi ideology.
I believe that a special type of people always find themselves in such ideologies and just wait and wait for war to break out so they can do **** - they love violence and revenge for stuf that happened 200 years ago.

Although the atmosphere in Croatia is definitely not Nazi-like, we all know that such groups exist.
Usualy they are marginalised and their actions are always condemned by the media and authorities. These are mostly kids whose parents had to emigrate to Canada, Australia.. in the 70s under the pressure of communism and they have no realistic picture of history or the present, but live their aggressive ideology somewhere far from Croatia and of course -> they are "bigger Croats than us here" (If war happened again, I'm sure they would be the first on the defense line)

To return to Ukraine - I am not sure if there is a similar case there and whether their Nazis are marginalised the same way or the part of the ruling structure?
It is hard to be sure because they are in the middle of the war and war brings out the worst in people.
I find it problematic that the ruling structures do not condemn Azov and have incorporated them into the official army... perhaps due to the lack of men willing to fight?
Anyway the statement that Ukraine is a Nazi state is too strong for me due to above.

[Spiral]

You have got to be joking or brain dead , seriously, this has been going on since 2014

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/RealAlexRubi/sta...61658646241281

https://twitter.com/ashermoses/statu...15395148845057

By Lev Golinkin January 27, 2021

This list is part of an ongoing investigative project the Forward first published in January 2021 documenting hundreds of monuments around the world to people involved in the Holocaust. We are continuing to update each country’s list; if you know of any not included here, or of statues that have been removed or streets renamed, please email editorial@forward.com, subject line: Nazi monument project.

Note: In the years since the Maidan uprising brought a new government to Ukraine in 2014, numerous monuments to Nazi collaborators and Holocaust perpetrators have been erected, at times as frequently as a new one each week.


L’viv and Ivano-Frankivsk — 1.5 million Jews, a quarter of all Jews murdered in the Holocaust, came from Ukraine. Over the past six years, the country has been institutionalizing worship of the paramilitary Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, which collaborated with the Nazis and aided in the slaughter of Jews, and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), which massacred thousands of Jews and 70,000-100,000 Poles. A major figure venerated in today’s Ukraine is Stepan Bandera (1909–1959), the Nazi collaborator who led a faction of OUN (called OUN-B); above are his statues in L’viv (left) and Ivano-Frankivsk (right). Many thanks to Per Anders Rudling, Tarik Cyril Amar and Jared McBride for their guidance on Ukrainian collaborators.

The rest is here,

https://forward.com/news/462916/nazi...ts-in-ukraine/

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/AniaKoniec/statu...56298953621504

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/AniaKoniec/statu...09764978601984

https://twitter.com/AniaKoniec/statu...13279692308480

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://twitter.com/TullipsMona/stat...01913720905729

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/RothLindberg/sta...49532646481920

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraini...-kids-to-kill/

Inside a Ukrainian nationalist camp training kids to kill
November 12, 2018 / 4:20 PM

KIEV, Ukraine -- The campers, some clad in combat fatigues, carefully aim their assault rifles. Their instructor offers advice: Don't think of your target as a human being.

So when these boys and girls shoot, they will shoot to kill.

Most are in their teens, but some are as young as 8 years old. They are at a summer camp created by one of Ukraine's radical nationalist groups, hidden in a forest in the west of the country, that was visited by The Associated Press. The camp has two purposes: to train children to defend their country from Russians and their sympathizers - and to spread nationalist ideology.

"We never aim guns at people," instructor Yuri "Chornota" Cherkashin tells them. "But we don't count separatists, little green men, occupiers from Moscow, as people. So we can and should aim at them."

The nationalists have been accused of violence and racism, but they have played a central, volunteer role in Ukraine's conflict with Russia - and they have maintained links with the government. Earlier this year, the Ministry of Youth and Sports earmarked 4 million hryvnias (about $150,000) to fund some of the youth camps among the dozens built by the nationalists. The purpose, according to the ministry, is "national patriotic education."

Ministry spokeswoman Natalia Vernigora said the money is distributed by a panel which looks for "signs of xenophobia and discrimination, it doesn't analyze activities of specific groups."

In this July 28, 2018 photo, a young participant of the "Temper of will" summer camp, organized by the nationalist Svoboda party, grabs his AK-47 during a tactical exercise in a village near Ternopil, Ukraine. "We never aim guns at people," instructor Yuri "Chornota" Cherkashin tells campers. "But we don't count separatists, little green men, occupiers from Moscow as people, so we can and should aim at them." Felipe Dana / AP
Cherkashin is a veteran of the fight against pro-Russia separatists in eastern Ukraine; he was wounded in combat and later came to lead Sokil, or Falcon, the youth wing of the Svoboda party. It is important, he says, to inculcate the nation's youth with nationalist thought, so they can battle Vladimir Putin's Russia as well as "challenges that could completely destroy" European civilization.

Among those challenges: LGBT rights, which lecturers denounce as a sign of Western decadence.

"You need to be aware of all that," said instructor Ruslan Andreiko. "All those gender things, all those perversions of modern Bolsheviks who have come to power in Europe and now try to make all those LGBT things like gay pride parades part of the education system."

While some youths dozed off during lectures, others paid attention. Clearly, some were receptive.

During a break in training, a teenager played a nationalist march on his guitar. It was decorated with a sticker showing white bombs hitting a mosque, under the motto, "White Europe is Our Goal."

Aside from the lectures - and songs around the campfire - life for the several dozen youths at the Svoboda camp was hard.

Campers were awakened in the middle of the night with a blast from a stun grenade. Stumbling out of their tents, soldiers in training struggled to hold AK-47s that were, in some cases, almost as tall as they were. They were required to carry the heavy rifles all day, and one of the girls broke down in tears from exhaustion.

At 18, Mykhailo was the oldest of the campers. The training, he said, was necessary.

"Every moment things can go wrong in our country. And one has to be ready for it," he said. "That's why I came to this camp. To study how to protect myself and my loved ones"

[RatRodRob...RRR]

Posted by Franny (here)
Where were you when Ukraine Nazis and Neo-Nazis were bombing in eastern Ukraine fourteen years before Russia moved in to, in their words, de-Nazify and de-militarize Ukraine? The killing, in violation of their agreement, was responsible for over 14,000 deaths. Where were you when Putin offered many times to meet for peace talks and the US instructed Zelenski to refuse as it's a proxy war by the US against Russia? Where were you looking when NATO planted over 60 missile sites around Russia over the decades while telling them they would go no further, but continued to advance? One missile site in Cuba in the 1950s and the US had a meltdown, Russia seems to be made of sterner stuff, they waited and hoped the US would come to its senses, then moved when it crossed one of those famous redlines.

This is not even the tip of the Ukraine Nazi iceberg, merely the slick of water on the top. Nazis have been Ukraine since the 1930 and are well established. We have several threads where you can read the history, such as this one, Ukraine is a Nazi state, don't fall for the lie Posted, no less, by one who was there.

And remembering before this "war" that Ukraine Elites and Those high in Gov were/are the worst child molesters/traffickers in the world, Putin knows this.

[s7e6e]

There was an exodus of nazi extremists and high ranking officials from Germany after the end of ww2. Some went to North America, even more went to South America. Most went to Ukraine. 3rd generations by now, ruling the country.

[DNA]

Posted by s7e6e (here)
There was an exodus of nazi extremists and high ranking officials from Germany after the end of ww2. Some went to North America, even more went to South America. Most went to Ukraine. 3rd generations by now, ruling the country.

I'm a less is better kind of guy. This was my favorite reply. Along with Franny the moderator. Great stuff.

[Mashika]

Posted by ozmirage (here)
[
IMHO, denigrating Jews as NAZIs is -ahem- not logical.
If you wish to believe anti-semitic nonsense as "good intelligence" that's your prerogative.
I will bow to the wisdom of the forum, and cease posting on this topic.

Elensky is a Jew by somehow being born or having a family who used to be Jews

That doesn't mean anything. stop trying to use that as an argument or talking point. It just tells us that you are ignorant of the reality of this world

There were Jews working under the German government who killed and organized the massive destruction of their entire race and religion. Go read a real history book for once

This kind of stupid argument that Elensky comes from a Jew family therefore there can't be a situation that Ukraine is a Nazi state is brain dead

And your derailment of threads with very little smarts or any kind of understanding of what happened or why or when, and your obvious 'I live in a bubble' position in which you show that you clearly have not looked at anything beyond what your compromised media tells you to think is unbearable. Stop embarrassing yourself.

You don't understand that you don't understand

I will bow to the wisdom of the forum, and cease posting on this topic.

No one said you couldn't, but you should go read and learn, then come back once an 'honest' research attempt has been made

Start by understanding that the 14,000+ people who died in Donbass between 2013 and 2021 were Ukrainian citizens, and that they were killed by the Ukrainian illegal government imposed through a coup orchestrated by the US government in the first place. And that it's already well documented by exactly who did it and how and their names, and how they can be traced back to Nazi officials in WW2, and there are recordings of their calls to choose who will take and control Ukraine's "Democratic government"

The US put them in place. IT is an illegal goberment

I'm giving you a bone since you clearly came to post this to cause this kind of reply. You wanted agitation, to cause a response, division is the tool of the lower serfs, and hate and so on, all that derives from it.

Your strategy is poor and lame. I'm sorry but it is.

Next time, as a "sleeper", please try to be more natural, you went directly for the hate and kill, but you have no arms or direction, or are capable of articulating in any way any kind of smartness about the entire thing

[Mashika]

And also, you follow a very well defined pattern in your writing, other people before you have done the same

It's almost like it was imprinted into you and you just reacted to something or "got triggered" by it. How odd

Sentence by sentence, you mimic other people before you, in ideas and approaches and that not very invisible hate you carry in your words

You should think about that

[Mashika]

And excuse for being this direct, but no, you are not pardoned. As an adult, you must take responsibility for your dumbness, all that time you had to grow up and you end up not doing it?

But i want you to understand that the kind of stupidity that leads to this kind of thread is the kind of stupidity that has allowed for the rape, killing and mass plain murder of thousands of people across the years

There is plenty of proof that you clearly have ignored, either on purpose (which makes you an accomplish) or plain ignorance, which says you are not well educated enough to go read all about what's going on.

Either way you are just messing up your own person by your own hands. Deal with it

Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah

See? I can also fill posts with none sense, just like you. In that way, we are very much equal

[Mashika]

Here's a small but fun anecdote for you:

There once was this guy born, he was named 'Pepe'

Pepe was always a fool, he constantly made dumb mistakes, like trying to put a knife in the electric wall socket, or give the dog Clorox or running to the street and almost getting hit by cars because regardless of how many times he was told to not do and why, he would still run with his tongue out like a dog in a car enjoying the wind on a nice car ride

After years, their family got tired of he constantly messing up and they sent him to a 'special kids' school. He told them "one day you'll see i'll be way more than you thought i could ever be, i'll show you how smart i am!"

15 years later, He was finally and adult, and he got a job at the best hospital in town

Once day, his father became ill, and he was placed on a hospital bed in the best room they had, since he had a lot of money and connections

He got worse and nothing could save him, until one day the fine young doctor who had just recently been hired came and figured out the problem

The doctor said "No worry sir, i will get you better in no time!"
Father said: "Oh God thank you so much young man, you remind me of my son, he would be just the same age as you right now, i wonder why he didn't come to see me"
Doctor said: No, don't worry sr, he's always very close to you, i assure you that

Then a sudden burst happened and the machine keeping the father alive went off, he fast went a critical comma and emergency team had to come to try and save his life

Upon reviewing what happened, they noticed Pepe had taken out the plug from the wall to connect the Vacuum Cleaner! He had just started working at the hospital a couple weeks before, he was a fool still

Stupid Pepe

P.S: This post and anecdote has as little relevance as your entire thread does, regarding the reality of the situation or core issue in Ukraine, deal with it

Relevance is none, you posted this out of butt hurting, it does *nothing* either way

This was a 'reductive' thread. Figure that out on your own

[Ewan]

I don't know if you are still reading these responses ozmirage but that was a quite stunning opening to lead with.

I know were I to have done such a thing I would be devastated by the uniformity of reponses and certainly pause for thought. Next I would go digging and research a few topics that I might find extremely uncomfortable if I clung too hard to that which I believed to be true.

That is the thing about beliefs. What we believe is true for us. Unfortunatly all too often, as I discovered, what we believe can turn out to be utter nonsense. That can be a painful, disorientating experience, one that can take some time to process and adjust to. It was nearly 20 years ago now I went throught that very situation myself.

We all have blind spots, some will persist till death and we never learn. Many people who believe themselves awoken, (not woke), can still have these blind spots about certain subjects/beliefs despite their broadening perspectives elsewhere.

I wish you a great deal of luck in processing what you may uncover if you start to look. Introspection is your friend but it can also be a fairly uncomfortable bedfellow.

[Jamie]

OK... so the United Nations keep trying to pass a UN Resolution banning the glorification of Nazism.
From the UN website about the Resolution... "Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance".

The resolution keeps failing.
The USA being one of the main countries repeatedly voting against it (them having a veto vote which cancels it out... is that true Democracy?... Really?).

The last vote for this was last year on the 16th of December 2021.
130 Countries voted for the Resolution (to ban the idolization of Nazism) ... yet just 2 Countries on this entire planet voted AGAINST banning the love of Nazism.
Those two Countries were the USA... and the second Country... the only Country in all of Europe... was Ukraine! (130:2 ... but at the UN those two win the vote. Ridiculous).
Why??
Someone answer that with truth...Why does Ukraine vote against banning Nazism?

Well if anyone has seen the news these past 8 years.. it'll be because of Western Ukraine's love of Nazi militias, doing the Nazi salute as a citizen of 'Western' Ukraine for those fun parades they have, and in the last 3 weeks weren't a few US News agencies banned from Ukraine for daring to accidentally capture Western Ukrainian citizens doing Nazi salutes!

[JackMcThorn]

Posted by Jambo (here)
OK... so the United Nations keep trying to pass a UN Resolution banning the glorification of Nazism.
From the UN website about the Resolution... "Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance".

The resolution keeps failing.
The USA being one of the main countries repeatedly voting against it (them having a veto vote which cancels it out... is that true Democracy?... Really?).

The last vote for this was last year on the 16th of December 2021.
130 Countries voted for the Resolution (to ban the idolization of Nazism) ... yet just 2 Countries on this entire planet voted AGAINST banning the love of Nazism.
Those two Countries were the USA... and the second Country... the only Country in all of Europe... was Ukraine! (130:2 ... but at the UN those two win the vote. Ridiculous).
Why??
Someone answer that with truth...Why does Ukraine vote against banning Nazism?

Well if anyone has seen the news these past 8 years.. it'll be because of Western Ukraine's love of Nazi militias, doing the Nazi salute as a citizen of 'Western' Ukraine for those fun parades they have, and in the last 3 weeks weren't a few US News agencies banned from Ukraine for daring to accidentally capture Western Ukrainian citizens doing Nazi salutes!

The UN Security Council is a separate entity from the UN General Assembly. So the veto is only used on certain criteria in the Security Council consisting of 5 permanent members with this veto power, all of which are nations armed with nuclear weapons. The veto is intended as a safety, but it is highly criticised as an undemocratic aspect.

The U.S. should vote in a consistent manner with its constitution and in this case it does do that [surprisingly]. Ukraine voting against it, on the other hand, seems a bit darker and peculiar.

I am more interested in the 51 abstaining votes. The abstain feature in a vote is intended to be rarely used as it could be seen as impartial; or better yet: careless. Lacking care and lacking responsibility. Almost all of Europe abstained and I forget whom else. One of the articles I read stated it was more 3rd world and 2nd world countries that voted in favour of this measure.

The thing about ideas is some of them will make your blood boil. An american is supposed to take those ideas with a grain of salt and if he/she has their own idea, be able to present it as a matter of fact, even if it makes someone else's blood boil. This looks good on paper, but looks awful in person and many people do not have the EQ to handle this responsibility. When they say legislation making laws is akin to making sausage, freedom of speech is just as ugly, in my opinion.

This measure did pass, 13o countries in favour, 2 against, and 51 abstentions.

[Bill Ryan]

A brief mods' note. Tintin was right to block ozmirage from Masha's Ukraine is a Nazi state, don't fall for the lie thread. She knows about this from the hardest personal experience, as I think many members are fully aware.

ozmirage's post on that thread, which was close to being racist, was unacceptable and an insult to Masha's integrity. He fell for the lie, and didn't even ask any questions about it, certain that he was right and that everything else was somehow incorrect or based in ignorance.

(It's always wise to ask questions. But not always wise to make definitive statements that may be fatally flawed.)

For quite a while now, Masha's been doing her very best, in her own style, to educate us about some of the realities which many in the west might be fully unaware of. And it seems that a minority of forum members, who should know better, are still buying the propaganda rhetoric from CNN and Reuters 'fact-checkers'. Wake up!!

Avalon has a proud record of sharing, reporting and explaining documented facts, whether comfortable or not, for anyone who's prepared to read, watch and listen. We're not going to shrink from that.

The mods were discussing all this in real time. I suggested that we should leave this new thread to stand, confident that members themselves would be quick to reply to counter the silly statements made by ozmirage — a highly intelligent and well-educated man who up till now has always shown high principle, and who therefore is one of those who should have known better.

That's why the mods have been fairly silent on this thread — tempting though it was to offer a mountain of countering information. It's sometimes far better for us to let the community do its own 'policing', and we're very grateful to those who've stepped in here with their own responses.