The Raw Primal Diet vs Vegetarianism

[Rayne T.]

Hi everyone, I had been reading the post by Bill about Wade Frazier's website - which I think is awesome, but I had one bone to pick, and made the following post.

After this post, I was pm'd about the diet, so I thought it would be a good idea to post a new thread about it for questions. I will do the best I can to answer from my own personal experience Here is the post I made....

"I have been reading through Wade's website, and like much of what I read. However there is one idea that I disagree with.

This particular idea, I feel, is being pushed by many all over and it is extremely dangerous to the health of humanity. This idea is that we should all become vegetarian.

Vegetarianism, is exactly what "they" want for us. Grains are the most harmful food a human can eat - contrary to popular belief, and we all need meat for re-building and renewing our bodies. Please don't just disagree and stop reading because of what you have read in magazines, heard on tv, or even experienced for yourself about the benefits of going vegetarian. Or, because of the nonsense you have read about how we get all of the protein we need from plants. We are NOT cattle. We do NOT have more than one stomach.

I could write everything I know about why we are not meant to eat grain here, but if you really want to know, then please read Aajonus Vonderplanitz book, "We Want To Live". He can describe this to you much better than I can.

I have saved my own life, and cured myself of over 15 symptoms ranging in severity by eating what is called he has called the Raw Primal Diet. Whatever you have heard on the internet about what is wrong with it, please don't believe it until you have done some investigation.

In 1998 at the age of 35, my health began to rapidly deteriorate. My list of symptoms included - restless legs, bleeding gums, weight gain alternating with severe weight loss, severe 3 day long headaches that occurred several time per month, Hep C, edema, anemia, severe anxiety and paranoia, food allergies, insomnia, blurring and deteriorating vision, ear infections, ADD, confusion, and social isolation.

I moved 40 miles from the nearest town, off grid, in the AZ high desert to try to begin to heal myself. I was completely disabled, and thought I would probably die. Doctors couldn't figure out my problem, and any medications only made me feel worse. The closest thing to a diagnosis was "you have some kind of autoimmune thing going on", and "the Hep C might explain some of it".

I began to study and read everything I could get my hands on about diet and health. Over the next 5 years, I tried raw vegetarianism, the macrobiotic diet, hundreds of dollars of supplements, and superfoods. Everything I tried made me sicker and sicker. And, no - I was not simply detoxifying because of my new "healthy" diet. I was dying.

In 2007, I gave up and moved home with my family in WV. This did not go well because of my mental problems, and I ended up fleeing to live in the basement of a friend's home. I was a mess.

The first thing I came to realize was that my problems had a spiritual basis. The spiritual manifests in the physical. "As above, so below". I began getting all of the spiritual healing I could afford, or have given to me for free.

A powerful shaman/healer gave me Reiki healing, and all of the attunments up to Reiki master teacher for practically free. A hypnotherapist friend of his gave me several very helpful session of hypnotherapy for only a painting - that I hadn't even painted yet. I received the rites of the Munay Ki, and learned E.F.T. This was only part of it. However, my physical self didn't recover.

When you have a spiritual problem long enough, it goes physical, and because of this, it takes physical action to heal the body sometimes - like dietary changes, and exercise, detoxification, removing exposure to toxins, etc. Well, another friend of mine spent over $1000 on a food allergy/sensitivity test for me, and I began to eat accordingly to the results. It was an ALCAT test.

I had improvement, and got my hopes up, but after almost a year, I ran back into my same old wall of not being able to eat more than one or two foods without experiencing horrible weight loss and the worst of the symptoms I listed above.

I was vegetarian, and I did it raw, I did it cooked, and a combination of both, and I was still dying.

Finally, I discovered Aajonus Vonderplanitz raw Primal diet online, which consists of raw meat, raw dairy, raw veggie juices, raw fruit, raw honey, etc.. I have been on this diet ever since, and have almost eliminated every single symptom I had except occasional bleeding gums, occasional restless legs - if I eat something I shouldn't like potato chips, lol, and I still get one of those three day long headaches about once every 3 months or so.

My muscles have filled back out. I gained weight, but not like someone in their 40's, I'm am shaping up even better than in my 20's. Hep C is gone. My energy is getting awesome. My eyesight is better. My mind is clear.

Please don't think I am selling anything here. I am not. I am not connected to A.Vonderplanitz in any way. I am just spreading information that I feel is needed here. This guy actually has a 95% cure rate for cancer.

Charles, if you have an incurable disease, contact Aajonus Vonderplantiz.

Now, what I want to say about vegetarianism.....It works for most, pretty much healthy, people at first. Sometimes they experience health for many years, but it doesn't work forever. The body and digestive system begins to break down, and everything falls apart.

Raw meat, and lots of raw animal fats are the healthiest, most cleansing things a person can eat. ALL of the info out there that tells us that meat and fat are bad for us are ALL based on cooked meat and fat.

How many nervous, high strung, scrawny vegans have we seen? I have seen LOTS.
I have also seen the few others - with the well developed muscular body and glowing health. They are mostly males under 50, and it won't last.

Believe me, I tried ALL of the raw oils, and superfoods, and everything else under the sun. In my studies, and experience I have learned that humans do not digest beans, nuts, and seeds well at all. They may for awhile appear to, that is all. These are not good sources of protein. We are not grazing animals. We aren't pure carnivores either. The raw Primal Diet, and perhaps the Paleo diet as well - i am still researching- are perfect for humans.

Please read the book, "We Want To Live". When you read it, you will recognize the truth of it.

Now, about the subject of animal abuse in the food industry. This is the real problem as well as all of the pollution created by factory farms. This must stop.

Professional hunting needs to replace this abusive destructive situation. Hunting should once again become the respected occupation it once was. And I don't mean by rediculously terrifying things like chasing down animals with helicopters.

Besides for the animal abuse, and pollution, the fact remains "we are what we eat". When we eat abused, enslaved, tortured animals who never see the light of day or get to play and run, then we take on that energy. The Native Americans knew this. The elite know this. Why do you think they spend huge sums of money to go somewhere and eat Tiger, or some other powerful wild animals?

We are part of this Earth. We are part of the food chain. Killing to eat is not wrong, it's being what we are. It is allowing ourselves to be, and live. People think that they have to be vegetarians to be spiritual. NONSENSE! Eating COOKED meats and fats WILL dull your mind and make you unhealthy, while eating them raw is just amazingly healthy. Please do not believe all of what you hear about food poisoning, or e-coli, or salmonella either. Aajonus explains the truth about that too. I have been on this diet for 1 1/2 years now, and have never gotten food poisoning. That is a scam created by Big Food corps.

Believe me, "they" want you to go vegan and not experience the renewal, and health that people like me are experiencing. Yes, raw veganism has healed some of "incurable" diseases because, yes of course, it is a clean diet compared to what the person was eating previously. But, I guarantee they will run into future problems with it. The Primal diet is curing EVERY "incurable" disease with nothing but improvement from then on!"

Love and Light,
Rayne

[9eagle9]

You've made fabulous points. My health didn't get completely better till I eliminated ALL grains from my diet. I had onset MS and melanoma. Even after that I had to eliminate all grains in order to just feel good. Mind you I love bread and things like that but eating a peice of bread is like asking for week long hangover. Literally thats what I feel like, I've drank a fifth of rot gut the next day. Followed by sugar. I'm not sure that un hybrid grains are any better. I noticed no difference when I tried spelt.

There's a lot fruits that don't serve me very well either, and a few veggies like potatoes and other starchy types. I can do a potato now and again but the grain...lethal. Pity, I love beer...lol.

. Vegetarianism was out of the question due to severely limited food choice and as a holistic practitioner I've seen lots of them. I've never seen one who looked healthy mostly because they deny essential fats and amino acids from their diet. Your trials probably had a lot to do with improper amino acidization. .

Most vegetarians I've see at the very least looking way old before their time, dry hair and dry unhealthy looking skin.

thanks for the info, and especially for sharing the experience.

stashing that away for future reference.

[Rayne T.]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
You've made fabulous points. My health didn't get completely better till I eliminated ALL grains from my diet. I had onset MS and melanoma. Even after that I had to eliminate all grains in order to just feel good. Mind you I love bread and things like that but eating a peice of bread is like asking for week long hangover. Literally thats what I feel like, I've drank a fifth of rot gut the next day. Followed by sugar. I'm not sure that un hybrid grains are any better. I noticed no difference when I tried spelt.

There's a lot fruits that don't serve me very well either, and a few veggies like potatoes and other starchy types. I can do a potato now and again but the grain...lethal. Pity, I love beer...lol.

. Vegetarianism was out of the question due to severely limited food choice and as a holistic practitioner I've seen lots of them. I've never seen one who looked healthy mostly because they deny essential fats and amino acids from their diet. Your trials probably had a lot to do with improper amino acidization. .

Most vegetarians I've see at the very least looking way old before their time, dry hair and dry unhealthy looking skin.

thanks for the info, and especially for sharing the experience.

stashing that away for future reference.

Thanks for your post!

I'm the same way with fruits. See, most people don't realize that food, in it's natural raw organic form is very potent. That includes fruits. This is why Hyppocrates said to make your food your medicine. It's very powerful.

We are so used to being able to go to the store and buy all kinds of foods out of season and from every part of the world. This is unnatural and unhealthy. I used to drink a tropical raw smoothie every day because I thought it would heal me. Instead, my stomach would explode, lol.

You are certainly riight about the lack of healthy raw fat in the vegetarian diet. Avocados, and raw coconut butter are good sources, but many have trouble digesting avacados, and raw coconut butter is hard to make/find. People think oil can be substituted for other fats, but this isn't true. Oils are solvents, and work differently. We actually need raw animal fat. Raw eggs are good for this.

Love and Light,
Rayne

[Jayke]

Interesting thread, I've read that eating a raw meat diet is great to reverse tooth decay as it provides the right nutrients you need to rebuild the dentin in your teeth, I've been eating a vegetarian diet for the past year but am always open to experimenting to optimise my health
got a couple questions for you
eating raw meat sounds a bit gross lol what kinds of raw meat do you find the most palatable?
where do you source the meat from, is organic from the supermarket ok or do you go direct from the farmers?
how much meat do you eat a day? is it an expensive diet to go on compared to when you were a vegetarian?
thanks
J

[Arrowwind]

I agree with much of what you say... I have done the Atkins diet and found it quite incredible for me... I was vegetarian and at one point a raw fooder, for 13 years and all it did was make me weak. I needed high quality dense protien.

Its the grains that are killing us and now with the introduction of soy and fructose sugars to everyting its speeding the agenda.

You do not have to eat fully raw meat to benefit from the diet. Cook your steaks on the outside and quite rare on the inside. Stay away from raw hamburger and chicken of course.. that could kill you unless you raise and butcher your own meat.

Veggies should be frequent and mostly raw. Coconut oil, raw and virgin is not hard to get via mail order. I eat it by the spoonful every day

[Rayne T.]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
I agree with much of what you say... I have done the Atkins diet and found it quite incredible for me... I was vegetarian and at one point a raw fooder, for 13 years and all it did was make me weak. I needed high quality dense protien.

Its the grains that are killing us and now with the introduction of soy and fructose sugars to everyting its speeding the agenda.

You do not have to eat fully raw meat to benefit from the diet. Cook your steaks on the outside and quite rare on the inside. Stay away from raw hamburger and chicken of course.. that could kill you unless you raise and butcher your own meat.

Veggies should be frequent and mostly raw. Coconut oil, raw and virgin is not hard to get via mail order. I eat it by the spoonful every day

Hi Arrowwind,

You've got it right about the grains and sugars. Yes, you can lightly cook the steaks on the outside, but I don't because that adds carcinogens to the meal. I eat this diet for it's healing and re-building effects and don't want to add any unnecessary toxins for my body to have to process. This reduces the amount of nutrition that is available for rebuilding and healing. I have heard that this is a good way to slowly get used to eating meat raw though.

I eat raw hamburger and raw chicken all the time. I mentioned in the above post that in the book, "We Want To Live", Aajonus talks all about food poisoning and parasites. You always want to get your meat from local, organic, free range farms - preferably ones you can see for yourself, or are known to practice what they preach. If money is a problem, like it was for me for a long time, you can eat raw meat from the supermarket and get good results. What you want to avoid are the organ meats, and chicken, as you mentioned. I ate lots of raw hamburger with no problems from the supermarkets. I don't advise doing this if you can afford not too because of the abuse that factory farm animals suffer, not to mention all of the pollution they are creating.

Coconut oil is not the same thing as coconut butter. As I mentioned above, oils shouldn't be substituted for raw fats. Oils are solvents. I wouldn't consume more than 1 to 2 tblsp of coconut oil per day. Too much oil will dry out the skin.

Veggies like carrots and celery are best for us if they are juiced raw and fresh. Some veggies put too much strain on the system to digest. Foods like raw tomatoes, raw corn, broccoli, cauliflower, squash, and cucumbers can be eaten whole with no problems for most people. When we eat raw meat, we don't need nearly the amount of fruit and veggies for vitamins as before . Meat has an abundance of vitamins and minerals - if it isn't cooked.

Love and Light,
Rayne

[Arrowwind]

I think you take great risk eating raw meat these days. Perhaps not 40 years ago, unless it comes from a good clean organic farm. Did you see Katie Couric's report (cbs news) on her investigation to the Iowa and Illinois cattle ranches? The feed lots are loaded with MRSA, as well as many of the workers there. They will never be able to clean them out in my opinion, they need to be shut down.

Having delt with MRSA in many a patient I am extremely cautious. It is now an epidemic in the USA and most of it is coming from the community, and meat is a source... It is why the packing industry has taken to irradiating meat... another reason to say away from factory meat...

Get yourself a freezer. Arrange for a local farmer to raise a head for you antibiotic and vaccine free fed on grass only. Find someone to split it with. Choose a reputable and clean butcher. It is the best that anyone can do these days and it gives a powerful message to the farmer.

Be careful. I wish you well

[Rayne T.]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
I think you take great risk eating raw meat these days. Perhaps not 40 years ago, unless it comes from a good clean organic farm. Did you see Katie Couric's report (cbs news) on her investigation to the Iowa and Illinois cattle ranches? The feed lots are loaded with MRSA, as well as many of the workers there. They will never be able to clean them out in my opinion, they need to be shut down.

Having delt with MRSA in many a patient I am extremely cautious. It is now an epidemic in the USA and most of it is coming from the community, and meat is a source... It is why the packing industry has taken to irradiating meat... another reason to say away from factory meat...



Get yourself a freezer. Arrange for a local farmer to raise a head for you antibiotic and vaccine free fed on grass only. Find someone to split it with. Choose a reputable and clean butcher. It is the best that anyone can do these days and it gives a powerful message to the farmer.

Be careful. I wish you well

Well, you may want to read the book. As far as a freezer, all but 25% of the proteins are destroyed in frozen meat. Something else you might not know - bacteria mutates and grows out of safe ranges only on cooked, frozen, and processed meats. Bacteria only feed on dead and diseased tissues and never on live tissue, and are not the problem. The problem is caused by the toxins that create dead and diseased tissues.

Love and Light,
Rayne

[Rayne T.]

Posted by Jayke (here)
Interesting thread, I've read that eating a raw meat diet is great to reverse tooth decay as it provides the right nutrients you need to rebuild the dentin in your teeth, I've been eating a vegetarian diet for the past year but am always open to experimenting to optimise my health
got a couple questions for you
eating raw meat sounds a bit gross lol what kinds of raw meat do you find the most palatable?
where do you source the meat from, is organic from the supermarket ok or do you go direct from the farmers?
how much meat do you eat a day? is it an expensive diet to go on compared to when you were a vegetarian?
thanks
J

Hi Jayke,

My favorite is steak or hamburger from grass fed, free range, organic cattle or buffalo. It is delicious. Make sure it has never been frozen or 75% of the proteins will be useless. I eat about one pound per day, but a large man may want up to 3 lbs per day. I can't really say which is more expensive. When you are buying exotic vegetarian superfoods, that is expensive, but if you are buying quality raw seafood - yum! that is expensive too.

[thewebkid]

I have a very high nutrition/mostly raw diet, but I would never give the full details, because I think the only diet that works for EVERYONE is the following:

• Intend well being for yourself and others
• Intend deeply to connect to your deepest truth - especially the needs of your body
• Follow this intention into nutritional studies/practices that flow well personally for you - knowing that changes will be awkward or uncomfortable at first

You may not gain access to certain nutritional clubs, but you will come away with a profound sense of self love, trust, confidence, INTUITION, and a happy springy body because you developed a relationship with IT and not a vicarious relationship with trusting someone else to provide the dietary semantics. I cull my food intake regime from a number of sources coupled with my own inner guidance.

Plus your body's needs will shift over time and you will have the sense of how to adjust diet according to your own circumstances.

[karelia]

I'm glad you found a diet that works in an optimal way for you. That said, I believe that there is no diet that falls into the 'one-size-fits-all' category. Years ago, I read 'Eat Right for Your Type.' It explained to me why I cannot eat meat and why hubby loves meat and could never be a vegetarian. I disliked meat all my life and stopped eating it the moment parental coercion stopped by me moving away. I still don't eat meat, and even if an expert convinced me that I'll die an early death because of it, I'll prefer death over meat. For me it's a spiritual thing. I'm not able to take the responsibility for a killing.

I have, however, over the years become an informed buyer. I would have to be on the brink of utter exhaustion before I eat anything ready made, and even then it better be organically grown, or I'll just forget about eating. I do not ever buy anything that may have GM ingredients. I have cut out sugar completely; it's been at least a decade since I last bought sugar, and even then it wasn't the refined stuff, which is highly poisonous. I use raw, local honey. I've cut out grains; I do occasionally eat a slice of fresh bread (home-made) or a dish of pasta (also home-made), but that's a fairly rare occasion because I don't like feeling all sluggish as a side-effect. The only fats I use are virgin olive oil, virgin coconut oil, and butter. Milk I only drink when I find it raw, though I love making cheese out of it. The meat I buy for hubby and son is ALWAYS from a local source and organically raised (no ABs, no vaccines, though the latter is not always entirely avoidable) and if it's beef or lamb, it's pastured, if chicken, truly free-ranged. I grow my own herbs, on the window sill if necessary, and during the produce season, I buy exclusively at farmers' markets and usually more than needed to preserve for the winter months (dehydrating, canning, freezing). My preferred proteins are local eggs and wild mushrooms. Next month, I'll be wild-crafting dandelion for my daily dose of greens. What I learned, over the years, is that the biggest impact diet has on my health is the fact that I switched to locally produced food. My energy levels went up, and we all started to eat less.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that as long as we are aware and continue the learning path, we all find the diet that suits us best.

[Rayne T.]

Posted by thewebkid (here)
I have a very high nutrition/mostly raw diet, but I would never give the full details, because I think the only diet that works for EVERYONE is the following:

• Intend well being for yourself and others
• Intend deeply to connect to your deepest truth - especially the needs of your body
• Follow this intention into nutritional studies/practices that flow well personally for you - knowing that changes will be awkward or uncomfortable at first

You may not gain access to certain nutritional clubs, but you will come away with a profound sense of self love, trust, confidence, INTUITION, and a happy springy body because you developed a relationship with IT and not a vicarious relationship with trusting someone else to provide the dietary semantics. I cull my food intake regime from a number of sources coupled with my own inner guidance.

Plus your body's needs will shift over time and you will have the sense of how to adjust diet according to your own circumstances.

I agree with you completely, however I think when you are hearing the word, "primal diet", you are thinking that it is like other "diets" that give you a list of food you can eat, and a list you cannot. The primal diet does not exclude any food that nature provides. All foods are available to choose from and you are encouraged to choose the foods your body desires. The only things that the Primal diet does not include, are things that are called food that either aren't, or were at one time food, but have been changed into a non food form through processing or the addition of harmful chemicals. By definition, food is that which nourishes the body. Processed and cooked "foods" have been proven to cause disease and do not provide nourishment, therefore they are not food.

Love and Light,
Rayne

[thewebkid]

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by thewebkid (here)
I have a very high nutrition/mostly raw diet, but I would never give the full details, because I think the only diet that works for EVERYONE is the following:

• Intend well being for yourself and others
• Intend deeply to connect to your deepest truth - especially the needs of your body
• Follow this intention into nutritional studies/practices that flow well personally for you - knowing that changes will be awkward or uncomfortable at first

You may not gain access to certain nutritional clubs, but you will come away with a profound sense of self love, trust, confidence, INTUITION, and a happy springy body because you developed a relationship with IT and not a vicarious relationship with trusting someone else to provide the dietary semantics. I cull my food intake regime from a number of sources coupled with my own inner guidance.

Plus your body's needs will shift over time and you will have the sense of how to adjust diet according to your own circumstances.

I agree with you completely, however I think when you are hearing the word, "primal diet", you are thinking that it is like other "diets" that give you a list of food you can eat, and a list you cannot. The primal diet does not exclude any food that nature provides. All foods are available to choose from and you are encouraged to choose the foods your body desires. The only things that the Primal diet does not include, are things that are called food that either aren't, or were at one time food, but have been changed into a non food form through processing or the addition of harmful chemicals. By definition, food is that which nourishes the body. Processed and cooked "foods" have been proven to cause disease and do not provide nourishment, therefore they are not food.

Love and Light,
Rayne

'cept when my diet is fueled by a savage self love and a yearning for well being, sometimes I am in a situation that calls for an enchilada which psychologically provides connection and a host of other benefits not necessarily linked to what toxins are embedded in the mexican missive.

I am not religious about anything and my nutritional foray is iterative/incremental, not sudden.

That's what works for me. The improvements in my vitality/well being by acting in accordance with that have been VAST.

Ron

[modwiz]

I believe we humans always have the opportunity to turn any activity into a sacred one and that our five senses provide five easy sensual paths.

I like what the teacher Jesus( I'll use that name knowing there are other variations) said about diet, (paraphrasing) "It is more important what comes out of a person (words, actions) than what goes in"(diet).

I like to think the Creator knows what is best for a form. Wanting to know more about my proper diet is as easy as looking in my mouth at the kind of teeth that are in there. Dentition, in a word.

If confused I can look into the mouths or at the skulls of other creatures of known dietary types, (carnivores, omnivores, herbivores, insectivores and primates.)

My relatively flat molars are different from the grass eaters. They are very different from the scissors-like ones of carnivore/omnivores. Almost any mouth can deal with insects.

My molars excel at turning nuts into butter and fruit into sauces. Nice big leafy greens with their stalks are well chewed with our ability to move our jaws side to side.

Like Karelia, I would be very hard pressed to make flesh a part of my diet. Hunted or harvested, (netted fish, no trawlers) wild meats could find their way into my diet but, I might not thrive and choose her 'cast off the body' mindset.

Having said that I will end by referring back to what Jesus said.

[Ilie Pandia]

People think that they have to be vegetarians to be spiritual. NONSENSE! Eating COOKED meats and fats WILL dull your mind and make you unhealthy, while eating them raw is just amazingly healthy.

I like meat in my diet, but I find it more and more difficult to eat it. It's not because I think that I will become more spiritual if I remove meat from my food, but I am starting to have big problems with something being killed so that I can eat it...

I am still at the hypocrite level since I really enjoy a stake now and then... but as I've said it's becoming more and more difficult.

[Mu2143]

First thing first people forget that we live in a holographic universe which means everything always has been there for us!
Second where genetically altered to make belief things we see with our own eyes and made extra weak as well (They change the design so its difficult to go off meat and they have most people mind controlled with there falls knowledge). There people on the planet who do not eat meat for generations and there healthy
.
We normally do not kill for food and because that's a belief system(Darwin primate diet BS ) If you do not think this true "Not my problem".
There two types of diets .. your ether have spiritual diet or Draconian Diet! (Co Creator vs Destroyer)

---->The problem is not that you are eating meat it is that you belief you need it!!!, why because you co create the lie. <-----

Another thing I picked out the foods my self which I found good to consume not that I follow a preset diet, because its for every one different and I mean NOT including the draconian belief diet.
And if you miss something in your diet you will get sick and this is not because your where not eating meat that's a make belief!!!

Conclusion get all the knowledge you can get from raw nutritional foods and get detoxed!! (Detox alone is not enough)
(And don't think if purchased something that it contains the active working substance, because you fooled again). A lot of people have purchased a thing they needed but never where consuming what they had.

Example there is a miss understanding that Raw Cacao is not good for you and the people who report this, are reporting that they have the same effects when drinking coffee. Conclusion you have purchased a raw product that was not RAW. (This is because of corruption and its very high). Also I check if the raw seeds sprout I have purchased !!!

[Professor]

I thought that perhaps I should share my personal experiences along this line of thought. I grew up n a very small rural family farm setting. Fresh meat was always a focus of each meal, whether from hunted wildlife or butchered domesticated animals. From the first moment that I can recall I felt it was wrong to kill other animals to eat. But, of course, I went along with the family pressure.

I'm not a religious or spiritual person in the traditional sense of those, though I have survived many attempts to convert me into one! However, I do believe that I have an inner sense of right and wrong. When I reached 13 years of age I had a very strong deep feeling inside that it was time to end my hypocracy and publically stated my intent to follow a vegetarian diet henceforth. My family thought I was pretty weird, but went along with my decision. I've never eaten meat of any sort since that time and now I am into my 6th decade. I have not followed any extreme diet - far from it. I believe that vegetarians can eat as unhealthily as carnivores and I have often done so. (Hopefully doing better now.) But I have always been quite healthy and happy.

I believe that the problems people have with diet are completely caused by the quality of the food and not the type of foods. GMOs, processing, etc. all contribute to poor health and food allergies. I have known many people with food allergies - I believe that most go unrecognized as such and diets and treatments change but rarely reach to the core issue of healthy problems. I sense that most of us here agree these are problems, but I believe they are THE PROBLEM.

I chose vegetarianism because I have a strong personal conviction that it would be wrong for me to take the life of another animal merely to continue mine when it is an unnecessary act. In the instance of a violent threat from another animal, I might see it the right path to react in order to protect my life or that of my family - but even then I would be troubled by that decision and might decide against it. I really find it difficult to accept that my life is any more important than the life of any other animal. I eat plants to survive and in return will one day feed them. This seems to be the natural way to me.

I found it interesting to read comments on this thread about the health of vegetarians. My experience has been completely at odds with many of the mentions above. In my life I have known many vegetarians and vegans and almost without exception they have been healthier than the carnivores I know. Admittedly, most of the carnivores I know and have known have not followed a very good diet - falling prey to the things we all seem to agree are bad in our diets - food additives, unnatural processing, GMOs, etc.

I choose vegetarianism and have found it works for me in all aspects of my life and development as an individual. Sometimes I wonder whether this choice might enhance the curbing of some of the uncontrolled aggressive tendencies we humans seem to exhibit.

Just my life, my experience, my thoughts. We all have those...

Peace

[9eagle9]

The human alimentary tract most resembles that of a rat or pig. Scavengers. At that is what we were early in our history before we learned agriculture. Not very flattering I know.....

As far as the Saintly diet vs the Draconian diet...if this is a holographic universe and illusionary in nature, then the concept of one diet being more godly and the other being more reptilian is another illusionary concept probably ego-mind based to give those who are scrambling for an identity a sense of superiority over those who realize that its not food that is the issue, its our belief systems attached to it. We are projecting our belief systems to create reality. With the ego mind. Our ego mind can praise or punish us. I hardly think altering ones diet is going to alter their Higher Self. It basically percieves such things as being meaningless.

Once I stopped attaching guilt to everythign I put in my mouth, my food stopped punishing me and I stopped expecting my ass to expand everytime I ate. So it did. I was creating those conditions based on beliefs imposed on me. I had a lot of artifically imposed negative false values imposed on my southern belle family who were very much into the Gone With the Wind diet: Eating is unfeminine. Don't be seen eating in public, and anything expressed on your plate must be dainty, and don't finish your portions so every one will see how dainty you are.

Those who believe that our food affects us on a core spiritual level have bought into just another matrix game. I can't recall a single philosophy or religion that doesn't state that things of the material world have little importance. That includes food. How we allow us to effect us is a different matter. Yes our food challenges are illusionary but until we reach that threshold they are very real to us. Food does carry energetic values to it. I'd rather consume a deer that has had a happy wild deer life than a cow that has had miserable conditions imposed on it but there that to is an illusion that I hope to rise above some day.

The whole food issue is a matrix game, and I know that once I work more and more on the illusions I've bought, into the less issue food will become.

But in the meantime we can have a comfortable illusion life or we can have a miserable one. Until we reach that threshold I suggest people do what makes them most comfortable. Our spiritual journeys don't have to be made more onerous than they already are by buying into beliefs that have no meaning to the spirit in the first place. No of course spirit doesnt' eat meat. It doesn't eat anything Godly or Draconian or anything in between.

It's much easier to reach that threshold of seeing beyond illusions if the vessel we've projected around ourselves isn't in pain. Maybe we will all be able to reach that place where our bodies are no longer affected by the illusions but until that time its probably better that we focus on what we are dealing with now, rather than creating more beliefs around that which is already a pestersome illusionary reality.

[Muzz]

Hi folks

Any food experts out there? Whats members thoughts on The Paleolithic Diet, Im thinking of giving this a go maybe one day a week to start with.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=vnGNZ6RDjlg

http://www.paleofood.com/

[Mu2143]

As far as the Saintly diet vs the Draconian diet...if this is a holographic universe and illusionary in nature, then the concept of one diet being more godly and the other being more reptilian is another illusionary concept probably ego-mind based to give those who are scrambling for an identity a sense of superiority over those who realize that its not food that is the issue, its our belief systems attached to it. We are projecting our belief systems to create reality. With the ego mind. Our ego mind can praise or punish us. I hardly think altering ones diet is going to alter their Higher Self. It basically percieves such things as being meaningless.

Maybe this article gives you more of a understanding how realilty works.
http://rayelan.com/ACTIVATEDCELLULARMEMORY.htm


Holographic universe does not mean illusionary that is what you belief system tells you when you use the word "holographic". Meaning it is being projected in to reality and if reality is a hologram then its real and not illusionary. It same when you see trans dimensional being you can't touch it but it is real! go define real!

This conflict of what is real and what is not real has do that on this planet we fell below our own spiritual light (Time, not the clock!! we use to glow) that we no longer know what is real and what is not, but then again how do you define real and what does the word really mean anyway? when I talk about spirit then I talk about creational light, not destroying which folding your own energy on to your self. This Holographic reality on earth has trauma which is energy folding on to it self, its junk.(Duality is not real we created it )

What is so hard to understand that when you destroy your destroying a little bit of your self since your are expression of everything you are (Your made in the image of WHAT!! everything that exist in past the present and future what we call GOD). If you think you need to kill, guess what! you killing your self slowly bit by bit if that is the way you think). (If we go for unity you better get it otherwise your simple not here, I'm not kidding!!)

So when you read something you need to understand what the word really means and not what you belief you think it is, so that's why there is a lot of confusion when reading a sentence when you do not understand a word in it. That's why my focus was to understand what person is saying after I found out that he is speaking the truth otherwise you still spreading lies you belief in happens a lot with a lot of people.
Example They(who? for does who know this term->"") talk about "4 density" and never have taken the time what it does mean for us when we go to it and not from any other world! there is lot missing here if you do not research it further to understand things first.

Another example is try to speak a language you do not understand!! you can't till you get it then you can learn to speak it other wise your confusing, but some people try to speak it with out understanding it first.

Oh, where was I. Yeah belief systems!! and reality , What is a Draconian diet its a traumatised diet what is a spiritual diet one that does not do the other.