The Raw Primal Diet vs Vegetarianism

[Sowelu]

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Sowelu (here)

Posted by nearing (here)

Posted by Sowelu (here)

Cats and dogs could eat raw meat as their stomachs contain harsh acids that ours don't.

I agree with all you said there Sowelu and I LOVE your avatar!

But I must disagree with the statement above.

Humans have Hydrochloric acid (HCL) in their stomachs. You can't get a more potent while still biologically-compatible acid. It's a VERY VERY strong acid.

pardon my misquote , but what i meant to say was that their systems are designed to be more resilient than ours. Their saliva contains antibacterial agents such as lysozyme and their shorter digestive tracts make it harder for bacteria to colonize... they have digestive ENZYMES that we don't not acids

Hi Sowelu,

I would highly recommend that you read "We Want To Live". Just because a straight carnivore is MORE geared toward eating meat, doesn't mean that we aren't supposed to eat any. We are quite able to digest quite a bit. My digestive system was nearly destroyed when I began the raw primal diet - consisting of raw meat - and ironically I was able to digest raw meat better than anything else, and this is what lead to my recovery.

As for bacteria....YOU WANT MORE, not less in your body. Bacteria consume dead and diseased tissues, not healthy ones. Bacteria cleanse out toxins. Our bodies use bacteria for cleansing and healing. Please everyone read the book I keep ranting about

Love and Light, Rayne

Beneficial bacteria yes... imbalances can cause a variety of disorders. If u saw my original post I was merely saying cats and dogs can safely eat raw, and suggesting
If a human wants to, make sure its organic to be on the safe side. Personally, I say eat whatever makes u feel good.
Weather that's raw meat or crunchy beans, go crazy!

If ur feeling tired or ill, try something else. Just make
Sure u get some sun

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by Rayne T. (here)
...The raw primal diet is far more sustainable than the vegetarian diet. Here are some of the benefits...

#Encourages eating locally and in season - eat mostly plants during growing season, and eat mostly meats in winter. Flow with nature.
# Easy to digest and supplies all of our nutritional needs
# Requires no processing and minimal packaging
# Supports local, organic, and free range farms
# Doesn't require excessive amounts of labor to supply food
# Doesn't require the use of supplements and expensive exotic superfoods
# Doesn't involve GMO's, harmful chemicals, and dangerous industrial chemicals
#Doesn't require that we waste land that could be grazing and free space for wild animals, for farming beans and grains that are harmful to us anyway.

A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. Not one person yet has been able to tell me what we can eat as a vegan, that doesn't require that we eat expensive exotic superfoods, cooked foods, grains, rice, beans, nuts and seeds. This list is indigestible, unhealthy, and/or ridiculously expensive.

Rather than argue anymore about the moral issues of whether to kill or not, first I would like to hear someone give me a list of foods that is vegan and will provide all of our dietary needs.

Honestly Dennis, the way I see it...you think you are higher than God, or higher than Nature. This has been man's problem from the beginning. You can't do it better than nature, and the key to "going back to the garden" is to learn to flow with, and harmonize with nature.

There is no such thing as a bacterial, or viral attack on our bodies, period. Please read the damn book, lol. Our bodies use bacteria and virus to cleanse toxins - toxins that our modern "civilized" trying to be better than God lives have created. It is the toxins that are attacking us.

Dennis, I know how to live for more than 300 years with "superhuman" health and powers. Ha ha, and I don't need to drink the blood of any human virgin children.

Love and Light, Rayne

"The raw primal diet is far more sustainable than the vegetarian diet."
The list of benefits you show could only (possibly) be true for a minute percentage of the population at best.

The Earth is (mostly) not grazing land. The Earth is a diverse set of ecological niches. If you multiply 7 billion people times the number of animals that would be required to feed them a Raw Primal diet, times the number of fractional acres of land each animal needs to graze/range/roam, you'll see that what you are proposing is impossible on a planetary scale - especially if natural habitats are protected and restored for other endemic creatures and plants to thrive. When animals are given an area to graze, they dominate the ecosystem, to the detriment of all or most other species that would have (naturally) used that space. Humans are already habitat hogs and resource hogs; you're proposal aims us further down that road. Honestly, what you're proposing, on a planetary scale, also sounds like a garish nightmare to me.



"A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. Not one person yet has been able to tell me what we can eat as a vegan, that doesn't require that we eat expensive exotic superfoods, cooked foods, grains, rice, beans, nuts and seeds. This list is indigestible, unhealthy, and/or ridiculously expensive. "
For those not convinced that cooking is bad, here's a link: Grain-free Living dot com Recipe Pages to a few recipes. Add in most vegetables and fruits (subtract the known bad guys like soy), add in some nuts. Prepare shaken, not stirred.

If you believe that all food must be eaten uncooked, the dinner bowl contents get more restrictive and less interesting in terms of variety, but again, most vegetables (minus the ones like potatoes and legumes that need to be cooked to change some biochemical component that is harmful/poisonous), most fruits, nuts. Vegan Raw dot com

If everyone on the planet was given as much of the above as they require, ate moderately, exercised, drank pure water, and got some sunshine, breathed some clean air, laughed and dance and sang, we would have a planet full of vibrant, healthy people.

It is easy to find fault in any diet, and you may say, "they included chickpeas which I believe are unhealthy", or nuts, or whatever.

I fully expect that you're going to reject the above diet general components as providing complete health. You've already stated what you believe is the ideal, and since I excluded meat, you believe I'm wrong. You have stated that when you tried the above vegetarian/vegan solutions, you were still actively dying. I don't believe you, but I do believe that you believe you. So, I believe I'm in an "argument" I cannot win. I think I jumped into the conversation because you made sweeping statements that vegetarians and vegans are wrong, unhealthy, and falling apart and that you had found the only solution to health.


"Honestly Dennis, the way I see it...you think you are higher than God, or higher than Nature."
Well, I know you're trying to steer the conversation away from spiritual and or moral grounds for vegetarianism/veganism, but this comment is interesting to me on a spiritual level. "I" am a subset of God, a teeny-tiny blob of God, just like (I believe) we all are. "Higher than God" is like saying "bigger than the Universe."

If it is true that one man, Vonderplanitz, who wrote a book is the first person to ever properly interpret human diet as evolved by Nature and/or as designed by God, then wow, that's pretty amazing. If you want to follow that guy's book, I say go for it, bless your food, and let it sustain you. But that's a far cry from believing that the entire planet could live like that, or especially must live like that to be healthy.

But, I also stated:

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
If Vonderplanitz is correct, and it is universally true for all humans, then I'd say in my spiritual path that I have made a decision to incarnate into a body that might thrive by eating some raw flesh of other animals, or that can survive in relative health without eating any flesh of other animals, that I choose to survive in relative health while here on Earth.

So, it doesn't matter to me if Vonderplanitz is "correct", I still see it as selfish, unsustainable, and violent. Me. I see it that way. That's my perspective. (I know it's not yours.)


There is no such thing as a bacterial, or viral attack on our bodies, period.
We live in symbiosis with many, many bacteria (and probably virus too, though I don't really know that.) We have gut bacteria without which we would immediately die, and skin bacteria without which we would be subject to massive attack and would die quickly. So, I am in agreement that bacteria on the whole is not a pathogenic enemy. But of the (probably) billions of kinds of bacteria on Earth, many are harmful and/or deadly to humans. Take utmost care in your eating of raw meat, so you'll not have to find out the hard way that this is true.

Dennis

[Mike]

no disrespect intended chelmostaf. just a bit of fun while we wait for the 18 messiahs its become impossible to leave a serious remark on this thread at this point.

best,
Mike

[nearing]

Okay, I need to chime in.

I have seen people in this thread say that they tried to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet and got sicker and sicker and didn't get healthy until they ate meat.

I have seen the opposite on this thread as well. Vegans who say they are healthy and happy and, dammit, no one should be eating meat.

This makes the medical professional in me very curious.

OBVIOUSLY, we are not all the same.

Maybe there really is something to this Eat for Your Blood Type Diet thing. I sort of poo-pooed that without looking at it before but, hey, only 15% of us are Rhesus negative, right? So perhaps those are the 15% of the human population that would die without eating meat! (Or vice versa as I have not read the book yet)

So, wouldn't this whole judgmentalism about what is and isn't right for us to eat be a moot point if there are a certain percentage that require meat to be healthy?

Carmody says she/he feels the suffering of death when eating meat - maybe her/his blood type is the kind that would be poisoned by meat.

Rayne says she/he was dying trying to live a vegan lifestyle and has come back from brink of death on raw meat. Maybe her/his blood type requires meat!

Can we all stop with the judging of others? We are supposed to be a little higher spiritually here than most other places on the net. Can we start acting it?

Okay, I feel better now.

*off to the bookstore to find that book*

[9eagle9]

I work with animals in spirit. Totems. Or rather they have chosen me to work with. They've chosen to sacrifice their life to give me a greater wisdom to share with my fellow kin. The owl that flew into me virtually committing suicide on my chest, my brother hawk that dive bombed my car until he threw himself to his death so I would acknowledge his wisdom. So I would wake up and be aware of their teachings. My sister deer, my grandfather eagle. Why did they give me this wisdom. Because I didn't have it. That's all. Not because I was special just because I needed it and the time came when I could accept it without making it greater or lesser than what it was.

It just was, it just is. I didn't need to understand it I only needed to accept it and honor it. That's all that is required of me.

They don't understand why you'd yearn for their wisdom in spirit, but deny their flesh as filthy. How dare you when they are possessed of so much more than you. I honor the filthy death you put in your mouth more than I honor you because you have contempt for those who would honor you. Unconditionally.

All of them have willingly given to me their wisdom through the path of death and left a token of their former physicality to remind me of it. Did I cringe from these teachings because they were death, did I disparage them because they were not of my understanding? Would you?

Oh but you are.

That they sang a song to me simply because they wanted to sing and not because there was some greater understanding in it. There wasn't. Not that a human could understand . They just wanted to share the gift of their song. Yet we demand and expect an understanding of that song, demand some meaning, when all is given without conditions. Or meanings.

All given to me by their willing choice to go into death to give it to me. .It wasn't given by consumption or denial. Would I dishonor a sacrifice that was made unconditionally in order to share with my brothers in sisters. No but my brothers and sisters would dishonor their gift even as they disparaged the vessel that held that wisdom.

I didn't ask it from them. I didn't take it from them. It was not even inkling in my mind when these events occurred to think I deserved such honor.

Their died by their own volition to do this. Did I kill these animals these brothers and sisters of mine to gain their wisdom? What they had to offer. I didn't need to. Did I ask or require a sacrifice of the? . No. They made the decision and they gave it to me, even giving their life to give because they understand their purpose in order to sustain my spirit to learn and to grow into myself as authentically as they conducted their lives they gave up for the greater good. Because they know their purpose and try so very hard to help us to know ours.

But those whom they'd reach out to sneer at the flesh. Are they surprised when their spirit is not acknowledged or heard because we are so fixated on the flesh. If you hate their flesh so badly you expect they'd offer their soft voice to be heard?

Am I their murderer? Did I commit a wrong doing when they died without my interference to give themselves to me. Did I consume their death? Would they judge me if I did? Or would you? Or would they be honored when I made ritual of their flesh a reflection of accepting their wisdom.

When I look through my medicines and see the feathers, skulls, bones, tails and hides the remains of all that was offered to me, and I listen to how people judge and dishonor those who teach us by making them idols.....they gave me the flesh of their back so I could drum and sing their song. And people revile it.

I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

[Carmody]

I'm attempting to make a very powerful point here.

Please stay with it. thank you.

Read on:

Posted by Carmody (here)

Posted by Rayne T. (here)
Now, about the subject of animal abuse in the food industry. This is the real problem as well as all of the pollution created by factory farms. This must stop.

Professional hunting needs to replace this abusive destructive situation. Hunting should once again become the respected occupation it once was. And I don't mean by ridiculously terrifying things like chasing down animals with helicopters.

Besides for the animal abuse, and pollution, the fact remains "we are what we eat". When we eat abused, enslaved, tortured animals who never see the light of day or get to play and run, then we take on that energy. The Native Americans knew this. The elite know this. Why do you think they spend huge sums of money to go somewhere and eat Tiger, or some other powerful wild animals?

We are part of this Earth. We are part of the food chain. Killing to eat is not wrong, it's being what we are. It is allowing ourselves to be, and live. People think that they have to be vegetarians to be spiritual. NONSENSE! Eating COOKED meats and fats WILL dull your mind and make you unhealthy, while eating them raw is just amazingly healthy. Please do not believe all of what you hear about food poisoning, or e-coli, or salmonella either. Aajonus explains the truth about that too. I have been on this diet for 1 1/2 years now, and have never gotten food poisoning. That is a scam created by Big Food corps.

Believe me, "they" want you to go vegan and not experience the renewal, and health that people like me are experiencing. Yes, raw veganism has healed some of "incurable" diseases because, yes of course, it is a clean diet compared to what the person was eating previously. But, I guarantee they will run into future problems with it. The Primal diet is curing EVERY "incurable" disease with nothing but improvement from then on!"

Love and Light,
Rayne

When I eat the flesh of animals that have been killed in factory farms, I live their deaths.

All the emotional helplessness, the pain, the fear, the rage, the sense of loss, the horror, all of it. Each separate meat eating experience is different. Each is a reflection of the horror of the death of the given animal in question. The loss of everything they know and understand....steps inside of me. I have to go through absorbing their vibrations and it takes a few hours.

I'm not happy about it and I experience it every time I forget and eat something like a fast food hamburger.

The question is..I know what it is doing to them...... what is it doing to me?

I can go as far as fish and chicken, for the most part. My body wants that nice ribeye 12oz steak, medium rare....mmmmmmm.... When I eat it I go through about 2-3 hours of absolute horror.

when I am at my (so far) most tuned, I even see, visualize within the death, not just the emotions.

Think about that...... the next time you sit down in front of a steak.

So..when someone asks me, 'how was your steak?', My answer could be....'mmmnn, not so bad. Pretty OK.'

Most people just eat the steak, and don't understand the trade off. I'm living within the trade-off.

Every second of it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Credo Mutwa

Now, there is another thing, sir: It is that one of the things that the Chitauli like to do in their underground caves, where many fires are always kept ablaze, we are told, is that when a Chitauli gets sick and starts to lose a large area of skin on his body, it is said that there is a disease that the Chitauli suffer from which causes them to lose large areas of their skin, leaving only raw flesh.

When the Chitauli gets sick this way, a young girl, a virgin, is usually kidnapped by the servant of the Chitauli and is brought to the underground place. There the girl is bound, hand and foot, and wrapped in a golden blanket, and is forced to lie next to the Chitauli, the sick Chitauli, week after week, being well fed and well cared for, but kept bound hand and foot, and only released at certain times to relieve herself. It is said that after the sick Chitauli shows signs of getting better, then the human girl is manipulated into trying to escape. She is given a chance to escape, a chance which is really not a chance. Then, when the girl escapes, she runs, but she is pursued over a long distance underground by flying creatures which are made of metal, and she is recaptured when she reaches the height of fear and exhaustion.

Then she is laid on an altar, usually a rough rock, flat on top. Then, she is cruelly sacrificed, sir, and her blood is drunk by the sick Chitauli, which then recovers. But, the girl must not be sacrificed until she is very, very, very frightened, because if she is not frightened, it is said that her blood will not save the sick Chitauli. It must be the blood of a very frightened human being, indeed.

Now, this habit of chasing a victim was also practiced by ordinary African cannibals, sir. In Zulu-land, in the last century, there were cannibals who used to eat people, and their descendants, even today, will tell you, if they trust you, that the flesh of the human being who has been frightened and made to run over a great distance, while trying to escape, tastes far better than the flesh of someone who was simply killed.

Credo Mutwa interviewed 9/30/99 by Rick Martin
http://www.whale.to/b/mutwa.html

alchemy is about the reduction of specific elements to their basic components, ie, as close to single atoms as is possible. Herbals, dilution. what happens in the DNA, in the chemical stew of the meats we consume?

From the dreambus thread.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...he-Documentary

SEE THE DREAMBUS documentary. Then you will understand what I say here:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The inner world of the ego reflection on/in the given relevant astral plane..... is surprisingly similar to the film Inception.

Consensus reality in small groups, around their given activities and involvements.

Watching the interactions and the motions, changes. Walking among them is very interesting too.

Some will see you, some will not, some will respond, some will simply interact.

Some will even be aware. The odd one says, 'I see you'. And I smile back. It is a fun game.

....and Don Quixote goes galloping off in all directions.


For this 'one'...this is/was the gift of seeing the ego of the consensus reality ...forming itself as a rolling wave both in and out of time, in anticipation of a 'reality' to come, and history to be, to recall. to watch the separateness of the dance of the human form of/in the oneness of all.

1:12 in the video.

~~~~~~~~~~~

To clarify. What I was seeing was the ego function, playing in anticipation of reality, ahead of time. Before it happens in this 3d world. Remember there is cross feed of the different dimensions. this is indirectly stated in the video at 1:12.

We always anticipate, this is a major component of our duality function in consensus reality while in this time based state of 3D space.

Exist as one. Look to the future. Immutable history. Oneness, and all, at the same time. Blocked from knowing this as the source/door is blocked, by the ego. The ego is the body's inner voice function.It is not you. The thing that arose when we were children ---and closed the doorway over. It blocked the source from conscious Avatar presence. See the Dreambus documentary. Dreaming the dream.

We don't have to throw the ego away, as after all... it is the body (Avatar) function. But we do have to gently get it to understand that it is not us, and we are not it.

Now, understand the why of the farming of animals---is it to drive you into fear?... and thus you anticipate fear filled worlds and thus steer that reality into existence?

It isn't the fear of the animal, specifically? It's how it affects your underlying complex duality self?

Seriously.

Look ahead, anticipation.

'oneness' the still of the self in this life, if it can be achieved. (see the documentary)

History, immutable, if it is not erased or altered, that is.

Duality ....and center.

two cranial hemispheres. One creative, the other linear and solid. Imagination..and immutable history. The center. the pineal. The third eye of dimensional oneness.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ffer-to-evolve

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...highlight=jung

It takes a couple of months to build my Kundalini up. Healthy food, healthy life, healthy attitude.

Practice, practice, practice.

Like the virgin girl in constant fear, keep at it.

Except, not fear.

Clarity. Truth. Oneness.

No free rides, you have to work for it? No push-button salvation? Problem is, there are not many manuals about, are there?

Hopefully the above will be of some help.

For the scientifically minded:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...g-Solved/page4

Within Maxwell's original equations is the asymmetrical (single direction) aspects of vortex function. The basis of his math on electrodynamics. The "law" of thermodynamics is a farce. Maxwell states it is also...elastic. oops.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...well-Equations

[Rayne T.]

Posted by nearing (here)
Okay, I need to chime in.

I have seen people in this thread say that they tried to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet and got sicker and sicker and didn't get healthy until they ate meat.

I have seen the opposite on this thread as well. Vegans who say they are healthy and happy and, dammit, no one should be eating meat.

This makes the medical professional in me very curious.

OBVIOUSLY, we are not all the same.

Maybe there really is something to this Eat for Your Blood Type Diet thing. I sort of poo-pooed that without looking at it before but, hey, only 15% of us are Rhesus negative, right? So perhaps those are the 15% of the human population that would die without eating meat! (Or vice versa as I have not read the book yet)

So, wouldn't this whole judgmentalism about what is and isn't right for us to eat be a moot point if there are a certain percentage that require meat to be healthy?

Carmody says she/he feels the suffering of death when eating meat - maybe her/his blood type is the kind that would be poisoned by meat.

Rayne says she/he was dying trying to live a vegan lifestyle and has come back from brink of death on raw meat. Maybe her/his blood type requires meat!

Can we all stop with the judging of others? We are supposed to be a little higher spiritually here than most other places on the net. Can we start acting it?

Okay, I feel better now.

*off to the bookstore to find that book*

there is only one problem with this though...All those who say they got better after quiting eat, all quit COOKED meat. Not one person quit raw meat, and felt better.

Love and Light, Rayne

[Mu2143]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist.

error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Colustrum (animal product) has a plant based alternative. Why aren't YOU using it?

You still did not understand me did you, I do not consume meat which I already explained. BTW there people on this planet using plant based diet and there healthy. They did not live in a mind controlled system we do.

[Mu2143]

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist.

error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

[chelmostef]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
I work with animals in spirit. Totems. Or rather they have chosen me to work with. They've chosen to sacrifice their life to give me a greater wisdom to share with my fellow kin. The owl that flew into me virtually committing suicide on my chest, my brother hawk that dive bombed my car until he threw himself to his death so I would acknowledge his wisdom. So I would wake up and be aware of their teachings. My sister deer, my grandfather eagle. Why did they give me this wisdom. Because I didn't have it. That's all. Not because I was special just because I needed it and the time came when I could accept it without making it greater or lesser than what it was.

It just was, it just is. I didn't need to understand it I only needed to accept it and honor it. That's all that is required of me.

They don't understand why you'd yearn for their wisdom in spirit, but deny their flesh as filthy. How dare you when they are possessed of so much more than you. I honor the filthy death you put in your mouth more than I honor you because you have contempt for those who would honor you. Unconditionally.

All of them have willingly given to me their wisdom through the path of death and left a token of their former physicality to remind me of it. Did I cringe from these teachings because they were death, did I disparage them because they were not of my understanding? Would you?

Oh but you are.

That they sang a song to me simply because they wanted to sing and not because there was some greater understanding in it. There wasn't. Not that a human could understand . They just wanted to share the gift of their song. Yet we demand and expect an understanding of that song, demand some meaning, when all is given without conditions. Or meanings.

All given to me by their willing choice to go into death to give it to me. .It wasn't given by consumption or denial. Would I dishonor a sacrifice that was made unconditionally in order to share with my brothers in sisters. No but my brothers and sisters would dishonor their gift even as they disparaged the vessel that held that wisdom.

I didn't ask it from them. I didn't take it from them. It was not even inkling in my mind when these events occurred to think I deserved such honor.

Their died by their own volition to do this. Did I kill these animals these brothers and sisters of mine to gain their wisdom? What they had to offer. I didn't need to. Did I ask or require a sacrifice of the? . No. They made the decision and they gave it to me, even giving their life to give because they understand their purpose in order to sustain my spirit to learn and to grow into myself as authentically as they conducted their lives they gave up for the greater good. Because they know their purpose and try so very hard to help us to know ours.

But those whom they'd reach out to sneer at the flesh. Are they surprised when their spirit is not acknowledged or heard because we are so fixated on the flesh. If you hate their flesh so badly you expect they'd offer their soft voice to be heard?

Am I their murderer? Did I commit a wrong doing when they died without my interference to give themselves to me. Did I consume their death? Would they judge me if I did? Or would you? Or would they be honored when I made ritual of their flesh a reflection of accepting their wisdom.

When I look through my medicines and see the feathers, skulls, bones, tails and hides the remains of all that was offered to me, and I listen to how people judge and dishonor those who teach us by making them idols.....they gave me the flesh of their back so I could drum and sing their song. And people revile it.

I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

What you describe is how it is when we live in balance. We Do not live in balance at this point at time on earth.

When a wild animal is wondering many thousands of miles of free space its his soles decision to bring himself to you to sacrifice himself though death to nourish you and share knowledge.

When an animal is penned in or is not able to freely roam about on earth then it has not free will, he cannot choose his destiny to be one thing or another. When an animal is brought to the brink of extinction he is not bringing himself to us to nourish one person. That is not balance, we do not live in balance. That is why I am like I am, I am a product of the system, do not judge me.

You make powerful points and I wish more people were like you to understand things more deeply, I wholeheartedly respect you for being this way. I wish we could all live in balance in this manner.

[chelmostef]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

These words are not kind or showing empathy at all, but words of grandeur and of a divine higher status.

[9eagle9]

Yeah the ego usually doesn't like things it doesn't want to hear. The spirit listens though.

Instead I laugh because if I didn't I'd cry at how out of touch people even as their mouths talk about how pure they are.

The whole point is someone cured themselves eating raw meat. That's a miracle. Provided by the natural world.

And then a lot more people had to make it about themselves.... using sacred things to defile others.

Posted by chelmostef (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

These words are not of kind or showing empathy at all, but words of grandeur and of a divine higher status.

[9eagle9]

I would have to add is there not anyone here who would break the law to save someone's life?

The 'laws' we are creating? Are they more important than someone's life, quality life, and well being? And if someone broke a law to bring themselves back to a quality of living why besmirch it with your laws? Is it because your quality of life in spite of your laws is not quite what you want it to be. Thus you create laws in the hope that it improves your quality of life? i see people here who have broken the laws in order to have their quality of living but don't seem to think others should be able to break the laws that kept them down.

[chelmostef]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Yeah the ego usually doesn't like things it doesn't want to hear. The spirit listens though.

I sincerely hope it does.

And then a lot more people had to make it about themselves.... using sacred things to defile others.

By me sharing my life and things that are very personal and close to my heart a story which of abstinence, I am taking sacred things and defiling others. It makes me sad you feel this way.


Round and round in cirles we go!

Have a good day I wish you well.

[Alan]

Posted by karelia (here)
Years ago, I read 'Eat Right for Your Type.' It explained to me why I cannot eat meat and why hubby loves meat and could never be a vegetarian.

I've read this book and I found it very interesting, and even started to follow it.

Then I discovered that the author has written a newer book, "The Genotype Diet". Like the blood type diet, it attempts to divide people into categories, and describes which foods are best for each category.

But the results of both books are contradictory, which to me invalidates both. The blood type diet would say I needed to avoid certain foods, and the genotype diet book then said they're OK for me. I feel like my only choice is to ignore both books!

SOOO much contradictory info out there on diets!

[Alan]

Posted by pixel (here)
I like meat in my diet, but I find it more and more difficult to eat it. It's not because I think that I will become more spiritual if I remove meat from my food, but I am starting to have big problems with something being killed so that I can eat it...

But if you eat plants you're still killing the plants, right? Do plants have souls? Do they experience "pain"? I have no idea....

And most veggies are sprayed with pesticides, which kills lots of bugs, snakes, rodents, etc. Grains are usually harvested by large machines which also will bugs/rodents/snakes/etc.

Food for thought...

[9eagle9]

You wouldn't be sad if you .... stopped taking every word that comes from my mouth PERSONALLY because this isn't about YOU or any one individual. It's about US. You are just re emphasizing the point I made. Everytime someone speaks someone has to make it about them. It is and has always been about US collectively. And we can't remove whats on our plates before meddling in others, there is no hope for us to be healthy collectively living species.

If I have the power to make YOU sad then I have been bestowed with a great deal of power indeed...only because you gave it to me.

I am not your abuser and I am not the source of your sadness. Stop blaming your feelings on other people.

If people would stop imposing their crap on other people the world would be a much better place altogether.

[Alan]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
But if you look at the studies of Drs Eades, authors of "Protien Power" you will see that even cooked meat in the right balance with veggies, without carbs leads to a greatly improved health for many.

I have "The Protein Power Life Plan" book. I think the title is somewhat lame but it's a terrific diet/lifestyle book.

Even tho there's so many contradictory books on diet, it's interesting what they have in common -- avoid sugar and processed foods. A good percentage of these books also say to avoid grains.

[Alan]

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
Well, speaking from my experience and a few others close to me… I/we have never been better physically as well as mentally once we stopped consuming death. I sleep a lot less (about 4 to 5 hours daily) and have plenty of energy to do all the average everyday deeds. It’s been over a decade since I’ve killed anything or eating something that clearly shows me it doesn’t want to be eating. IMO, when you live off of the Land/Earth, you are taking what mother Earth has provided for you. Meat is the flesh of animals (like you). It is not a necessity; it’s a con to keep your frequency low. Eating death/animal flesh becomes you…and your environment…due to the mentality cultivated by negative consumption. You might not see this as being wrong simply because of conditioning; you’re use to the craving and taste. You are what you eat…

But unless you are a fruitarian you ARE killing. Plants have a right to live and reproduce, don't they? They have self defense mechanisms -- some are poisonous, some have thorns, most have some kind of antinutrients in them. The only things in nature "designed" to be consumed are milk, fruit and honey, that's it.

You might be right about vegetarianism, I honestly don't know. And I'm glad what you are doing is working for you. But it might be working for you just because you believe in it so strongly.

[Alan]

Posted by Rayne T. (here)
I mean you no disrespect, but I have to speak up here. NOOOOO!!! Science cannot make up for our nutritional deficiencies. This type of thinking is exactly what got us in the nutritional mess we are in now. All of the GMO's and harmful chemicals added to our food, and feeding us a diet that is completely unnatural.

I agree! "Science" is what has given us all of the things which are making us sick -- high fructose corn syrup, MSG, artificial sweeteners, processed food, GMO foods, etc, etc.