The Raw Primal Diet vs Vegetarianism

[Rayne T.]

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist.

error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

Taking supplements and pills is not the answer, as I already pointed out. Your reaction to meat was a reaction to cooked meat. I wasn't able to eat cooked meats either, but raw is incredibly nourishing to my body. Common sense tells us that nature provided a healthy diet for humans. We just have to find it. Taking pills is ridiculous.

Love and Light, Rayne

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
I work with animals in spirit. Totems. Or rather they have chosen me to work with. They've chosen to sacrifice their life to give me a greater wisdom to share with my fellow kin. The owl that flew into me virtually committing suicide on my chest, my brother hawk that dive bombed my car until he threw himself to his death so I would acknowledge his wisdom. So I would wake up and be aware of their teachings. My sister deer, my grandfather eagle. Why did they give me this wisdom. Because I didn't have it. That's all. Not because I was special just because I needed it and the time came when I could accept it without making it greater or lesser than what it was.

It just was, it just is. I didn't need to understand it I only needed to accept it and honor it. That's all that is required of me.

They don't understand why you'd yearn for their wisdom in spirit, but deny their flesh as filthy. How dare you when they are possessed of so much more than you. I honor the filthy death you put in your mouth more than I honor you because you have contempt for those who would honor you. Unconditionally.

All of them have willingly given to me their wisdom through the path of death and left a token of their former physicality to remind me of it. Did I cringe from these teachings because they were death, did I disparage them because they were not of my understanding? Would you?

Oh but you are.

That they sang a song to me simply because they wanted to sing and not because there was some greater understanding in it. There wasn't. Not that a human could understand . They just wanted to share the gift of their song. Yet we demand and expect an understanding of that song, demand some meaning, when all is given without conditions. Or meanings.

All given to me by their willing choice to go into death to give it to me. .It wasn't given by consumption or denial. Would I dishonor a sacrifice that was made unconditionally in order to share with my brothers in sisters. No but my brothers and sisters would dishonor their gift even as they disparaged the vessel that held that wisdom.

I didn't ask it from them. I didn't take it from them. It was not even inkling in my mind when these events occurred to think I deserved such honor.

Their died by their own volition to do this. Did I kill these animals these brothers and sisters of mine to gain their wisdom? What they had to offer. I didn't need to. Did I ask or require a sacrifice of the? . No. They made the decision and they gave it to me, even giving their life to give because they understand their purpose in order to sustain my spirit to learn and to grow into myself as authentically as they conducted their lives they gave up for the greater good. Because they know their purpose and try so very hard to help us to know ours.

But those whom they'd reach out to sneer at the flesh. Are they surprised when their spirit is not acknowledged or heard because we are so fixated on the flesh. If you hate their flesh so badly you expect they'd offer their soft voice to be heard?

Am I their murderer? Did I commit a wrong doing when they died without my interference to give themselves to me. Did I consume their death? Would they judge me if I did? Or would you? Or would they be honored when I made ritual of their flesh a reflection of accepting their wisdom.

When I look through my medicines and see the feathers, skulls, bones, tails and hides the remains of all that was offered to me, and I listen to how people judge and dishonor those who teach us by making them idols.....they gave me the flesh of their back so I could drum and sing their song. And people revile it.

I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

9eagle9,i thought wehther to react to any of your posts on this subject.i dont say it often,but i find a lot of unsensitivness in them and an inability to put yourself in other creatures shues.you are more than welcom to get back at me if you wish.i have nothing against you or other people with similar thinking but i will prefer Carmody's reaction as someone who consumes meat and yet stop and thinks about the meaning of it all, to the very convenient theory that animals were given to us as tools for our own use (how noble of them) i do not agree.please be kind enough to explain it to them while watching this: http://vimeo.com/11518271.

i can only hope that you take your wonderfull signature seriously:"i dont believe everything i think". but even if not, let me give you a hint,whatever senses wrong and feels wrong and is done in hidden places and not in the open (slaughter houses) while creatures are mooooing and crying in agony is wrong! of course if anyone quietly and calmly watchs this and reflects how they were volunteering for this...well,against this i have no answer.i will give-up.
the gap is too big between our perceptions and feelings.

lets agree not agree.unfortunetly not you nor me will pay the price of this Difference in perceptions.

be blessed dear sister

[Rayne T.]

Posted by chelmostef (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
I work with animals in spirit. Totems. Or rather they have chosen me to work with. They've chosen to sacrifice their life to give me a greater wisdom to share with my fellow kin. The owl that flew into me virtually committing suicide on my chest, my brother hawk that dive bombed my car until he threw himself to his death so I would acknowledge his wisdom. So I would wake up and be aware of their teachings. My sister deer, my grandfather eagle. Why did they give me this wisdom. Because I didn't have it. That's all. Not because I was special just because I needed it and the time came when I could accept it without making it greater or lesser than what it was.

It just was, it just is. I didn't need to understand it I only needed to accept it and honor it. That's all that is required of me.

They don't understand why you'd yearn for their wisdom in spirit, but deny their flesh as filthy. How dare you when they are possessed of so much more than you. I honor the filthy death you put in your mouth more than I honor you because you have contempt for those who would honor you. Unconditionally.

All of them have willingly given to me their wisdom through the path of death and left a token of their former physicality to remind me of it. Did I cringe from these teachings because they were death, did I disparage them because they were not of my understanding? Would you?

Oh but you are.

That they sang a song to me simply because they wanted to sing and not because there was some greater understanding in it. There wasn't. Not that a human could understand . They just wanted to share the gift of their song. Yet we demand and expect an understanding of that song, demand some meaning, when all is given without conditions. Or meanings.

All given to me by their willing choice to go into death to give it to me. .It wasn't given by consumption or denial. Would I dishonor a sacrifice that was made unconditionally in order to share with my brothers in sisters. No but my brothers and sisters would dishonor their gift even as they disparaged the vessel that held that wisdom.

I didn't ask it from them. I didn't take it from them. It was not even inkling in my mind when these events occurred to think I deserved such honor.

Their died by their own volition to do this. Did I kill these animals these brothers and sisters of mine to gain their wisdom? What they had to offer. I didn't need to. Did I ask or require a sacrifice of the? . No. They made the decision and they gave it to me, even giving their life to give because they understand their purpose in order to sustain my spirit to learn and to grow into myself as authentically as they conducted their lives they gave up for the greater good. Because they know their purpose and try so very hard to help us to know ours.

But those whom they'd reach out to sneer at the flesh. Are they surprised when their spirit is not acknowledged or heard because we are so fixated on the flesh. If you hate their flesh so badly you expect they'd offer their soft voice to be heard?

Am I their murderer? Did I commit a wrong doing when they died without my interference to give themselves to me. Did I consume their death? Would they judge me if I did? Or would you? Or would they be honored when I made ritual of their flesh a reflection of accepting their wisdom.

When I look through my medicines and see the feathers, skulls, bones, tails and hides the remains of all that was offered to me, and I listen to how people judge and dishonor those who teach us by making them idols.....they gave me the flesh of their back so I could drum and sing their song. And people revile it.

I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

What you describe is how it is when we live in balance. We Do not live in balance at this point at time on earth.

When a wild animal is wondering many thousands of miles of free space its his soles decision to bring himself to you to sacrifice himself though death to nourish you and share knowledge.

When an animal is penned in or is not able to freely roam about on earth then it has not free will, he cannot choose his destiny to be one thing or another. When an animal is brought to the brink of extinction he is not bringing himself to us to nourish one person. That is not balance, we do not live in balance. That is why I am like I am, I am a product of the system, do not judge me.

You make powerful points and I wish more people were like you to understand things more deeply, I wholeheartedly respect you for being this way. I wish we could all live in balance in this manner.

We must return to this balance. There is no other way. To go forward, we must go back. Some may die, some may starve. There are too many people on this planet if a healthy natural diet is not "sustainable". Humans are not meant to depend on a "they" to supply their food. Survival of the fittest is a good thing. Humanity is trying to destroy survival of the fittest, and reduce everything to weak, sickly shadows of what they should be. Everyone should be doing something to produce at least some of their own healthy organic food.

[Mu2143]

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist.

error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

Taking supplements and pills is not the answer, as I already pointed out. Your reaction to meat was a reaction to cooked meat. I wasn't able to eat cooked meats either, but raw is incredibly nourishing to my body. Common sense tells us that nature provided a healthy diet for humans. We just have to find it. Taking pills is ridiculous.

Love and Light, Rayne

It simple we where never meat eaters , that's a belief system. Where heavily genetically altered. If people where not mind controlled in this world we would not have any supermarkets and real food with be available everywhere for nothing. It does not matter in what form it comes, it is how you got it in the first place. (Simple rule did you got it ,by destroying or co-creating!)

You know what is ridiculous believing you need to kill for food that is.

[Rayne T.]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
I would have to add is there not anyone here who would break the law to save someone's life?

The 'laws' we are creating? Are they more important than someone's life, quality life, and well being? And if someone broke a law to bring themselves back to a quality of living why besmirch it with your laws? Is it because your quality of life in spite of your laws is not quite what you want it to be. Thus you create laws in the hope that it improves your quality of life? i see people here who have broken the laws in order to have their quality of living but don't seem to think others should be able to break the laws that kept them down.

I can see a future when the vegan "spiritual" elitists outlaw meat eating. They will be living on spirulina and hemp seeds while the less fortunate will be forced to buy beans and rice because it's all they can afford.

[Rayne T.]

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist.

error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

Taking supplements and pills is not the answer, as I already pointed out. Your reaction to meat was a reaction to cooked meat. I wasn't able to eat cooked meats either, but raw is incredibly nourishing to my body. Common sense tells us that nature provided a healthy diet for humans. We just have to find it. Taking pills is ridiculous.

Love and Light, Rayne

It simple we where never meat eaters , that's a belief system. Where heavily genetically altered. If people where not mind controlled in this world we would not have any supermarkets and real food with be available everywhere for nothing. It does not matter in what form it comes, it is how you got it in the first place. (Simple rule did you got it ,by destroying or co-creating!)

You know what is ridiculous believing you need to kill for food that is.

Then why don't you get out there and tell all those wild carnivores that they are being ridiculous by feeding themselves. Better yet, why not just kill them all, then there will be no more killing. If you had been listening to me you would know I am not for supermarkets. Real food is available naturally everywhere, and it includes meat.

[Alan]

FYI here are some extracts from Aajonus' book:

http://www.wewant2live.com/site/811618/page/45031

[Mu2143]

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist.

error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

Taking supplements and pills is not the answer, as I already pointed out. Your reaction to meat was a reaction to cooked meat. I wasn't able to eat cooked meats either, but raw is incredibly nourishing to my body. Common sense tells us that nature provided a healthy diet for humans. We just have to find it. Taking pills is ridiculous.

Love and Light, Rayne

It simple we where never meat eaters , that's a belief system. Where heavily genetically altered. If people where not mind controlled in this world we would not have any supermarkets and real food with be available everywhere for nothing. It does not matter in what form it comes, it is how you got it in the first place. (Simple rule did you got it ,by destroying or co-creating!)

You know what is ridiculous believing you need to kill for food that is.

Then why don't you get out there and tell all those wild carnivores that they are being ridiculous by feeding themselves. Better yet, why not just kill them all, then there will be no more killing. If you had been listening to me you would know I am not for supermarkets. Real food is available naturally everywhere, and it includes meat.

Your problem not mine, your responsible for your self.
If you don't like the truth don't read it and stop responding to it!!!

You don't realize it yet ,but this civilization is build on a BIG lie keep on dreaming!

[Rayne T.]

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)

A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist.

error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

Taking supplements and pills is not the answer, as I already pointed out. Your reaction to meat was a reaction to cooked meat. I wasn't able to eat cooked meats either, but raw is incredibly nourishing to my body. Common sense tells us that nature provided a healthy diet for humans. We just have to find it. Taking pills is ridiculous.

Love and Light, Rayne

It simple we where never meat eaters , that's a belief system. Where heavily genetically altered. If people where not mind controlled in this world we would not have any supermarkets and real food with be available everywhere for nothing. It does not matter in what form it comes, it is how you got it in the first place. (Simple rule did you got it ,by destroying or co-creating!)

You know what is ridiculous believing you need to kill for food that is.

Then why don't you get out there and tell all those wild carnivores that they are being ridiculous by feeding themselves. Better yet, why not just kill them all, then there will be no more killing. If you had been listening to me you would know I am not for supermarkets. Real food is available naturally everywhere, and it includes meat.

Your problem not mine, your responsible for your self.
If you don't like the truth don't read it and stop responding to it!!!

You don't realize it yet ,but this civilization is build on a BIG lie keep on dreaming!

The truth??? What truth? You are not even making sense. I think you are balling up the nightmare of humanity as being one and the same as real life on earth where animals eat other animals. You are trying to say it's all part of the matrix, aren't you? That creation is a mistake, and we have to go back to the light, is that what you are saying? This is why I didn't like church and all those religions who condemn the flesh and being alive. Personally I enjoy living in a physical body.

[Rayne T.]

All this makes me want to go running through the forest, leap out of a tree onto some unsuspecting juicy herbivore, and rip into it. Yeahhhhhhhhhh! Hell with sitting on a futon and eating soy and rice, feeling holier than thou, and getting fat, gray, and disease ridden. Bleckk!!!

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by Rayne T. (here)
I can see a future when the vegan "spiritual" elitists outlaw meat eating. They will be living on spirulina and hemp seeds while the less fortunate will be forced to buy beans and rice because it's all they can afford.

A pound of ranch (not wild) produced meat really does cost (in resources consumed) immensely more than a pound of carrots.

If John Robbins was correct in his calculation, if the US government did not subsidize the cattle ranching industry (I think mostly due to massive amounts of nearly free water for ranchers), hamburger would be $80US/pound. And, that figure (if my memory is serving me), was from about 20 years ago.

So, (if that is correct), to reduce meat consumption, there is no need to outlaw meat, just let the price rise to reflect reality, and voila, lots more vegetarians - or at least meat would become an occasional "treat" for omnivores, rather than a daily, or even thrice daily, prime component of an entree. This would be an elitist crime if there was a need in human nutrition for meat, but my understanding is that there is no need in human nutrition for the flesh of animals or the milk from any animal other than mother's breast milk for infants.

Does the raw primal diet insist on frequent/daily meat intake? Or, is this something that raw primal adherents could occasionally eat (the way vegans often periodically outsource B12)? If it could be infrequent and small amounts of flesh, then it moves closer to a sustainable practice.

Actually, I suspect that even if every nutritionist on the planet sang in chorus about a need to eat raw flesh, there would still be very few that would do it. I just can't believe this is something that is going to catch-on, so the point about the misuse or over-consumption of resources for raw meat production is moot. But, it's not moot for meat production in general.

I'm not arguing against meat eaters eating meat. Bless it, let it nurture you. But if the assertion that meat is not required for human nutrition is correct, then it is a luxury item, and meat eaters should not expect society to subsidize the production costs to make it more affordable.

We do need to decriminalize hemp, because it is a 'miracle' plant providing oil, food, fiber for cloth and paper, medicine.

If (shoving aside the profit/greed-driven food corporations and agribiz corporate agenda) we find specific plants are really unhealthy for human consumption (such as soy), then lets be smart enough to demand only nutritious and digestible crops.

7 billion people is a lot of mouths to feed. I would hope that based on compassion for all of humanity, we realistically and honestly take a look at what needs to be done, to produce food to feed all 7 billion. "May All Be Fed" - another of John Robbins books worth reading.

Dennis

[Mu2143]

The truth??? What truth? You are not even making sense. I think you are balling up the nightmare of humanity as being one and the same as real life on earth where animals eat other animals. You are trying to say it's all part of the matrix, aren't you? That creation is a mistake, and we have to go back to the light, is that what you are saying? This is why I didn't like church and all those religions who condemn the flesh and being alive. Personally I enjoy living in a physical body.

I never said creation was a mistake , what I can tell is that this play or experience is a one time only and it will never happen again. (We had a view more civilizations before this one where we did destroyed our self when we had more technology, information etc. people did not listen in Atlantis when it destroyed it self for 3th and last time )

because of free will no body can makes us stop this play unless where confronted with it in some form to stop it (evolve here or die! here that's our choice). Trying to solve that puzzle is the biggest of all and the highest level is here on earth.
You always look in to the past from where you want go forward, So the steps you have experienced to get this far is the best choice you have made and is not to be judged on. But it is how do you move forward from now on. There tons and tons of information the get the full picture ,but everybody has to read from there own book of life to fill in the pieces.

If people don't want to try harder then what to do you want co-create anyway and I am sure your not here to repeat history again.

And yes it all part of the matrix ,because there is a program running and where the one creating it (mind control, belief system) stop that and you stop the program. Did know that there is a reality in the spirit realm that's a reflection of this world only that explains what really is happening here. (Your not always seeing what really going own)

Truth will said your free , but first it will piss you off.
I can assure you there is only one truth because the rest is mind control.
The truth is simple not complex there only 2 ways in this universe 0 or 1

I'm trying to motivate people to try and think harder by challenge there beliefs, but there always feel attacked in some short of way.

[Malcolm Linus]

I think we will see in about ten years who was right, and I think the answer will be everybody. In my opinion, our bodies are not so similar as the mainstream would like it to appear. Some of us are "built" to eat meat, some of us are not. Making this planet a giant melting-pot for all kinds of physical beings is a great and exciting experiment (adventure). I can't wait for the moment when we realize this and stop judging each other. Until that time, I hope the carnivores among us will have a nice and juicy steak, and the herbivores enjoy their plate of delicious vegetables.

[nearing]

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by nearing (here)
Okay, I need to chime in.

I have seen people in this thread say that they tried to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet and got sicker and sicker and didn't get healthy until they ate meat.

I have seen the opposite on this thread as well. Vegans who say they are healthy and happy and, dammit, no one should be eating meat.

This makes the medical professional in me very curious.

OBVIOUSLY, we are not all the same.

Maybe there really is something to this Eat for Your Blood Type Diet thing. I sort of poo-pooed that without looking at it before but, hey, only 15% of us are Rhesus negative, right? So perhaps those are the 15% of the human population that would die without eating meat! (Or vice versa as I have not read the book yet)

So, wouldn't this whole judgmentalism about what is and isn't right for us to eat be a moot point if there are a certain percentage that require meat to be healthy?

Carmody says she/he feels the suffering of death when eating meat - maybe her/his blood type is the kind that would be poisoned by meat.

Rayne says she/he was dying trying to live a vegan lifestyle and has come back from brink of death on raw meat. Maybe her/his blood type requires meat!

Can we all stop with the judging of others? We are supposed to be a little higher spiritually here than most other places on the net. Can we start acting it?

Okay, I feel better now.

*off to the bookstore to find that book*

there is only one problem with this though...All those who say they got better after quiting eat, all quit COOKED meat. Not one person quit raw meat, and felt better.

Love and Light, Rayne

You are right, Rayne (and now I see you are a she!). This thread is a very small sample of the overall population. And it doesn't change what I said, there can be people who are very healthy on a cooked meat diet as well. The point I am trying to make is that due to genetic variations, there isn't going to be just one diet that is right for all.

So this judgment of others for what they choose to eat and thrive on is utter nonsense.

I personally used to be a strict vegetarian and found that even though I was doing it right, I was not healthy (and I am very nutritionally aware)! So, I slowly began to reintroduce meat (only free range grass fed, 'organically' and humanely raised) into my diet and became much healthier for it. Now, I always gives thanks to the soul that left it's body in order for me to sustain my body with it's flesh and I eat rare (not raw, at least not yet). But if there are vegans out there who thrive on being one, that's great for them!

For people here of all places to throw judgment on someone who chooses to eat meat is just wrong-headed. Surely, they can see that no one is eating anything out of pure malice. No one here hasn't thought long and hard about what they put into their bodies. We should be supporting each other's arduous efforts to do the right thing, whatever that may be for one's own being.

[Lettherebelight]

I'm sure if slaughterhouses were made of glass, we would all eat a lot less meat.

In the vedas there are mantras recommended that one should chant at the time of killing an animal for food.
The translation roughly is, 'In this life, I take your life. In the next, you will take mine.'
Maybe that's one of the reasons why millions of people in India have had a largely vegetarian diet for thousands of years!...without supplements
The brotherhood of all life is ingrained in their culture. They find it distasteful to use the term 'meat'; they always describe a carnivorous menu as 'non-veg'.
At the same time, they recognize that certain sections of society will always eat meat.

It's a personal thing. A choice we are lucky enough to be able to make at this point in time.

What we eat affects not only our body, but our consciousness as well.

Everyone should do what they feel is right for themselves.

[Rayne T.]

Posted by nearing (here)

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by nearing (here)
Okay, I need to chime in.

I have seen people in this thread say that they tried to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet and got sicker and sicker and didn't get healthy until they ate meat.

I have seen the opposite on this thread as well. Vegans who say they are healthy and happy and, dammit, no one should be eating meat.

This makes the medical professional in me very curious.

OBVIOUSLY, we are not all the same.

Maybe there really is something to this Eat for Your Blood Type Diet thing. I sort of poo-pooed that without looking at it before but, hey, only 15% of us are Rhesus negative, right? So perhaps those are the 15% of the human population that would die without eating meat! (Or vice versa as I have not read the book yet)

So, wouldn't this whole judgmentalism about what is and isn't right for us to eat be a moot point if there are a certain percentage that require meat to be healthy?

Carmody says she/he feels the suffering of death when eating meat - maybe her/his blood type is the kind that would be poisoned by meat.

Rayne says she/he was dying trying to live a vegan lifestyle and has come back from brink of death on raw meat. Maybe her/his blood type requires meat!

Can we all stop with the judging of others? We are supposed to be a little higher spiritually here than most other places on the net. Can we start acting it?

Okay, I feel better now.

*off to the bookstore to find that book*

there is only one problem with this though...All those who say they got better after quiting eat, all quit COOKED meat. Not one person quit raw meat, and felt better.

Love and Light, Rayne

You are right, Rayne (and now I see you are a she!). This thread is a very small sample of the overall population. And it doesn't change what I said, there can be people who are very healthy on a cooked meat diet as well. The point I am trying to make is that due to genetic variations, there isn't going to be just one diet that is right for all.

So this judgment of others for what they choose to eat and thrive on is utter nonsense.

I personally used to be a strict vegetarian and found that even though I was doing it right, I was not healthy (and I am very nutritionally aware)! So, I slowly began to reintroduce meat (only free range grass fed, 'organically' and humanely raised) into my diet and became much healthier for it. Now, I always gives thanks to the soul that left it's body in order for me to sustain my body with it's flesh and I eat rare (not raw, at least not yet). But if there are vegans out there who thrive on being one, that's great for them!

For people here of all places to throw judgment on someone who chooses to eat meat is just wrong-headed. Surely, they can see that no one is eating anything out of pure malice. No one here hasn't thought long and hard about what they put into their bodies. We should be supporting each other's arduous efforts to do the right thing, whatever that may be for one's own being.

Where have I judged anyone? sorry, don't understand you. As far as cooked meat goes, I can give you a detailed description of what it does in the body, and any cooked food for that matter. You are basically trying to tell me that some people can be healthy eating arsenic, and some can't. No judgment, just a discussion.

Love and Light, Rayne

[nearing]

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Where have I judged anyone? sorry, don't understand you. As far as cooked meat goes, I can give you a detailed description of what it does in the body, and any cooked food for that matter. You are basically trying to tell me that some people can be healthy eating arsenic, and some can't. No judgment, just a discussion.

Love and Light, Rayne

You haven't, Rayne, others have. If you read my whole post again, you might see that I have been agreeing with you.

And I know what cooking at high heat and charring do to food and what eating that food does to body. BBQing meat is asking for colon and rectal cancer.

I eat meat rare, even bloody, but so far I haven't been able to go raw. I am kind of like my cat in this manner. He loves the canned food that is just opened, but if it has been in the fridge, he will turn his nose to it until it has warmed up.

[9eagle9]

Oh I don't doubt you find me insensitive. The central hypocrisy here is our belief systems are our sacred cows and occasionally somethign shows up to make the cows stampede.

"Oh I wouldn't eat a cow but I expect others to eat a line of bull (chuckle).

No. I don't think anyone is intentionally shoveling bull. The problem they are not consciously aware of the illogic of the belief systems because they are derived from a sensitive emotional state.

A handful of people present two or more opposing beleif systems as a 'truth'. Not to mention putting words in people's mouths. I don't think any meat eater here has admitted to eating from slaughter houses.

The belief systems that are published all contradict each other even though they came from the same person.

The person who notices these contradictions is therefore rendered insensitive because I didn't pretend there were NOT several different opposing beliefs clashing at each other. You cannot make your beleif systems be in alignment with each other so its my fault because I noticed?

Brilliant. But predictable. The whole basis of why people are here on Avalon is because they woke up to the fact that they were being fed two opposing sets of beliefs.

My only fault is that I notice when someone hands me two or more opposing beliefs that don't even agree with other. Dare I say I'm SENSITIVE to opposing beliefs. If one didn't wall paper the universe and impose them on others as some sort of central truth there would be little for me to notice.

If one is not responsible with their belief systems I should be expected to treat them with tender loving care?

Lol. Now do you see why I laugh? You expect me to do something you are not willing to do yourself.

Posted by LIMOR (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
I work with animals in spirit. Totems. Or rather they have chosen me to work with. They've chosen to sacrifice their life to give me a greater wisdom to share with my fellow kin. The owl that flew into me virtually committing suicide on my chest, my brother hawk that dive bombed my car until he threw himself to his death so I would acknowledge his wisdom. So I would wake up and be aware of their teachings. My sister deer, my grandfather eagle. Why did they give me this wisdom. Because I didn't have it. That's all. Not because I was special just because I needed it and the time came when I could accept it without making it greater or lesser than what it was.

It just was, it just is. I didn't need to understand it I only needed to accept it and honor it. That's all that is required of me.

They don't understand why you'd yearn for their wisdom in spirit, but deny their flesh as filthy. How dare you when they are possessed of so much more than you. I honor the filthy death you put in your mouth more than I honor you because you have contempt for those who would honor you. Unconditionally.

All of them have willingly given to me their wisdom through the path of death and left a token of their former physicality to remind me of it. Did I cringe from these teachings because they were death, did I disparage them because they were not of my understanding? Would you?

Oh but you are.

That they sang a song to me simply because they wanted to sing and not because there was some greater understanding in it. There wasn't. Not that a human could understand . They just wanted to share the gift of their song. Yet we demand and expect an understanding of that song, demand some meaning, when all is given without conditions. Or meanings.

All given to me by their willing choice to go into death to give it to me. .It wasn't given by consumption or denial. Would I dishonor a sacrifice that was made unconditionally in order to share with my brothers in sisters. No but my brothers and sisters would dishonor their gift even as they disparaged the vessel that held that wisdom.

I didn't ask it from them. I didn't take it from them. It was not even inkling in my mind when these events occurred to think I deserved such honor.

Their died by their own volition to do this. Did I kill these animals these brothers and sisters of mine to gain their wisdom? What they had to offer. I didn't need to. Did I ask or require a sacrifice of the? . No. They made the decision and they gave it to me, even giving their life to give because they understand their purpose in order to sustain my spirit to learn and to grow into myself as authentically as they conducted their lives they gave up for the greater good. Because they know their purpose and try so very hard to help us to know ours.

But those whom they'd reach out to sneer at the flesh. Are they surprised when their spirit is not acknowledged or heard because we are so fixated on the flesh. If you hate their flesh so badly you expect they'd offer their soft voice to be heard?

Am I their murderer? Did I commit a wrong doing when they died without my interference to give themselves to me. Did I consume their death? Would they judge me if I did? Or would you? Or would they be honored when I made ritual of their flesh a reflection of accepting their wisdom.

When I look through my medicines and see the feathers, skulls, bones, tails and hides the remains of all that was offered to me, and I listen to how people judge and dishonor those who teach us by making them idols.....they gave me the flesh of their back so I could drum and sing their song. And people revile it.

I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

9eagle9,i thought wehther to react to any of your posts on this subject.i dont say it often,but i find a lot of unsensitivness in them and an inability to put yourself in other creatures shues.you are more than welcom to get back at me if you wish.i have nothing against you or other people with similar thinking but i will prefer Carmody's reaction as someone who consumes meat and yet stop and thinks about the meaning of it all, to the very convenient theory that animals were given to us as tools for our own use (how noble of them) i do not agree.please be kind enough to explain it to them while watching this: http://vimeo.com/11518271.

i can only hope that you take your wonderfull signature seriously:"i dont believe everything i think". but even if not, let me give you a hint,whatever senses wrong and feels wrong and is done in hidden places and not in the open (slaughter houses) while creatures are mooooing and crying in agony is wrong! of course if anyone quietly and calmly watchs this and reflects how they were volunteering for this...well,against this i have no answer.i will give-up.
the gap is too big between our perceptions and feelings.

lets agree not agree.unfortunetly not you nor me will pay the price of this Difference in perceptions.

be blessed dear sister

[DeMeeee]

What works for one does not work for all, there is not a diet that is universal.
We each need to find what works for our own body, our own way, and listening to our body.
It will tell you what it needs. We all come from various backgrounds, genetics, and ailments, etc….

Yes it is helpful to research, listen and learn, but most are concluded from studies (which have issues) and most don’t take in varying unique individual considerations. There also so many chemicals in our foods, water, and air that it’s amazing our bodies do so well no matter what one’s eating.

When people make blanket statements, it falls in the line of judgment and a food “religion” status… Find what works for you. It will also change as you age and as toxins dissolve, organs recover. I do feel that we have been meat eaters to some degree in the past. I also believe that our consciousness and DNA structures are shifting and we will become plant based in our future.

[9eagle9]

People will get hungry enough to began hunting and trapping for vegan spiritualists. They'd probably be quite toxic considering all the grain they'd eaten. ..(chuckle) Then we are consuming the energy of their morality and judgements. Poor energy food. Of course they aren't consuming animals for the same reason I wouldn't consume them...lol.

One step removed from the PETA people who release lab animals to give them back life and the animals promptly go out into the free world and die because they don't know how to exist outside in a natural state. That's not taken into consideration though so I have to presume this wasn't about animal welfare at all. The animal died because of the PETA people. They die because the PETA people have free'd the animals only because they themselves feel imprisoned.

Not thinking beyond the implications of their emotional driven state to find the illogic and destruction in their beliefs.

Posted by Rayne T. (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
I would have to add is there not anyone here who would break the law to save someone's life?

The 'laws' we are creating? Are they more important than someone's life, quality life, and well being? And if someone broke a law to bring themselves back to a quality of living why besmirch it with your laws? Is it because your quality of life in spite of your laws is not quite what you want it to be. Thus you create laws in the hope that it improves your quality of life? i see people here who have broken the laws in order to have their quality of living but don't seem to think others should be able to break the laws that kept them down.

I can see a future when the vegan "spiritual" elitists outlaw meat eating. They will be living on spirulina and hemp seeds while the less fortunate will be forced to buy beans and rice because it's all they can afford.