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Thread: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by s7e6e (here)
    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)

    So Nibiru is, very simply, The Earth (the place or planet of origin) of Enlil, the famous sky-god.

    Sirius, which is the place of origin of the Enlil-Satan-Marduk-Baal evil types.
    Very interesting but a bit confusing.
    Thanks for your comment. Yes, I agree. It is intricately woven and there are a great many parts to the puzzle that I have not had the chance to show yet. The story is complicated but important, and we need to know the truth so that we can respond properly when the time comes for us to decide which side we will support.
    But it can be made much simpler - There are two basic groups. One is small, and controls most of the world, and the other is large and works for the others. The smaller group worships nothing but power - with material goods as a flag for that power, and if they had to claim any "god" at all it would be some form of Sun or Serpent god.
    In the early period of man, these two groups lived together in Europe and the Middle East. When a great flood came, due to a comet strike, they were brought from Anatolia down into the Levant/Mesopotamia on the one side, and Eastern Europe on the other.
    The group led by what many call Cain, settled in the Sinai and Egypt, after conquering Sumeria and establishing the Babylonian empire. The group led by Abraham in the East and Job in the West, eventually moved down into Canaan.
    The aliens took slaves of the Sumerians, and their complaints about this are in their tablets - very clearly we were, and perhaps are, to some extent, Slaves for the Stars. The hidden part of the Old Testament tells nearly exactly the same story, but adds a few details that the Sumerian version does not contain. Both suffered - indeed, all of humanity suffered.

    The Cain group won the battles, and the distant relatives of the original alien "sky-gods" lords it over the rest of us to this date. That's why they are sociopaths - they really believe that they are part "gods" and thus our welfare, truly, is not a concern of theirs.

    I was not able to reply yesterday because I was searching for written evidence and hard proof that, as the story in the Bible tells me, the Cain group left for the Sinai region. I found it, thankfully. So that ties the final portion of my work together, and now I will begin writing up my outlines and publishing. It also places them in Egypt, in 1800 BC, and confirms some of Genesis.
    But more importantly, it proves that the Hebrews did not have to "remember" the Biblical books for 8000 years, which nobody could seriously believe in any event, not with such detail, it proves that they wrote them first in stone, in the proto version of Sumerian, then later in papyrus etc. But this writing was contemporary with the events - no millennium memory needed.


    To give you an idea of how brutally insane the academic world of today is, in the main (with some exceptions), in a desperate attempt to find some record of writing earlier than 900 BC among the Hebrews, they take the finds at Wadi el Hol in Sinai and claim them as proto-Canaanite or proto-Hebrew. They should be ashamed. Of the twelve characters on one example, which I happened to recognize very quickly as early Sumerian, they claim "this scribe apparently made a few errors, and left out some of the key symbols". So of the twelve - they had to add three to get any meaning at all from it! If my translations are not 90% or better I simply discard them as rubbish and look elsewhere.

    I translated all twelve, yesterday, and it's a message, complete, with no added or changed characters needed, and no "scribal errors" evident. It says "My son, a child, both sweet and precious, supports the songs and music of the priesthood; he is responsible to his land and tribes." Their forced meaning, which actually is mainly manufactured, as I mentioned, supposedly gives them "the King is anointed." Which king, why, and what's the big deal about that? Who would go out of their way to scratch that in rock on a mountain side?

    So yes, there is a lot of crap to sift through to reach what we deserve to know about our origins.

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)
    Quote Posted by TrumanCash (here)

    post snipped see #14 above...

    thanks I enjoyed that interview with Mike Bara....

    and the shocker quote from the transcript, that is smack bang on topic...

    Quote 28:41.... fascinating to me was that if you look at sitchin's book The Lost book
    of enki he calls it historical fiction but I don't know - I'm sure you know Jordan Maxwell or knew of Jordan before he passed away the late Jordan Maxwell - but Jordan told me one time - he said Mike... Sitchin told me that that book is is not channeled and it's not fiction he said that Sitchin told him that enki is still alive and dictated it to him that it's basically like Interview with a Vampire only it's interview with an anunnaki...



    and another jaw dropping quote from the interview...Bob is Bob Dean...

    Quote 31:07....Bob believed that there was a very specific officer in the US space command who was in fact Enki

    I realize that what Mike Bara says is against the general thrust of this thread...but...?

    the whole section that begins around 26 mins helps to put the above two quotes more in context... I have never heard those things stated before...

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    edit to add the description of the video with Salla and Mike Bara...

    Quote 12 Oct 2023
    Ancient aliens visited Earth many millennia ago and genetically modified primitive hominids, according to former aeronautical engineer Mike Bara. In his first interview on Exopolitics Today, Bara discusses how he became interested in the UFO issue and ancient aliens due to his collaboration with veteran researcher Richard Hoagland in the 1990s, which culminated in their jointly authored 2007 book, Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA.

    In their book, Hoagland and Bara expose the three main groups running NASA from behind the scenes: Magicians, Freemasons, and Nazis. Bara and Dr. Michael Salla discuss the respective influence of these groups on NASA and how NASA is a front for a secret space program using far more advanced aerospace technologies than rockets. Bara and Dr. Salla next discuss the President Kennedy assassination and how it arose from JFK’s desire to share UFO secrets with the Soviet Union in an effort to shake them loose from CIA control. Finally, Bara expresses his views on David Grusch and what lies ahead with the UAP Disclosure Act for 2023. While he believes UFO disclosure over the next six months to a year is going to be a muddled affair, Bara is optimistic that transformative changes are about to hit our planet.

    Going back to the quotes I lifted from the video about Enki being alive...I have always suspected that the Masons or similar type group either have the Ark of the Covenant or have made an exact functioning replica.... so I'm speculating that if it's too hard to swallow that Enki could still be around in flesh and blood form...perhaps he can appear in a kind of holographic form in a direct live transmission using the Ark - appearing in-between the cherubim in the Old Testament way...

    or using another way to transmit - - - in the Book of Enki at the beginning - he appears in light form to dictate the book to the scribe...
    I would prefer not to comment on Bara and Hoagland. It would take a while and it's more my crap detector than anything else. Again, some of what they say has some bits of truth. And it may be just my own attitude shaping my opinion.

    I will mention the Masons. They have been privy, probably from back to the times of the Templars, of some or much of what I have found. Their tracks are all over the scene. But they have misinterpreted portions of it - but perhaps not. Because what they print and what they tell the lower masons are not what the top ones know. So it's hard to tell.
    But there is this that I will share.

    There will be not one but two main Anti-Christs, one in London the other in New York. And their symbols have been planted more than a hundred years ago in preparation. I call them the Anti-Christ twins in a book that I have half-written.
    Both groups are associated with the Masons and others who are of the Cain tribes, included the top of the Papal business machine, the bankers, the lawyers and politicians, etc.
    Those are you Gog-Magog for the end times.

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Two posts of mine which seem relevant. @Jim, this thread might be interesting to you:
    My first post below is from that thread:

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by halcyon026 (here)
    I'm familiar with Zecharia Sitchin but Im not sure his work can be trusted. See Bill Ryan's comments here.
    Right, Sitchin's work can't be trusted. I heard personally from Jordan Maxwell, who knew Sitchin well, that he often sought 'telepathic guidance' when he was unsure how to translate something.

    That was how come Sitchin drove Sumerian academic Michael Heiser crazy, because Heiser was right.... the translations Sitchin came up with weren't always direct translations: they were often Sitchin's interpretations and assumptions, seemingly guided by non-physical contact with something.
    And also this, from a thread called Nibiru's return:

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    No way have the Anunnaki been hanging around on some icy planetoid way out near the orbit of Pluto (or beyond!) waiting patiently for it to gradually get closer. Sitchin was way off base on that.

    The Anunnaki, who are an ancient race, have advanced spacefaring technology already, and can get here any time they like — and may well be here now. We have no idea what star system they may be from.

    See this thread:
    Thank you Bill! I will certainly look over those today. Sorry I didn't respond yesterday - I found one key piece tying a passage in the Hidden Biblical text to a recorded, written, historical event and my ego forces me to follow it much like a hound follows the scent. When I get in that "mode" I literally drop everything and my wife has to force me to take time to eat.

    I remembered that you had written that key piece of evidence about Sitchin - from Maxwell personally, in an early post. That's the important part - that you are the link in that chain. I was truthfully astonished when you wrote that - I had my suspicions because the NSA is a nasty friend of his. I was offered a position by the NSA when I left the Navy as a Cryptographer - I declined. I was then offered an Officers rank in Army intelligence - which I also declined. They like to get their hooks into you if they can. They they offered me a four year tour in the American Embassy in London, wearing plain clothes - I think you get the picture - I declined that as well.

    I'll post back after digesting - today is a day of contemplation and rest for me - I work seven on one off, normally.

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)
    Quote I'm sure you know Jordan Maxwell or knew of Jordan before he passed away the late Jordan Maxwell - but Jordan told me one time - he said Mike... Sitchin told me that that book is is not channeled and it's not fiction he said that Sitchin told him that enki is still alive and dictated it to him that it's basically like Interview with a Vampire only it's interview with an anunnaki...
    Yes, Jordan Maxwell told me something very similar back in 2010. (He'd known Sitchin very well as a close friend.)

    Mike Bara goes a little further here, but Jordan was adamant with me that Sitchin took huge 'inspirational' liberties with his translation, seeking some kind of 'channeled' input or clarification when he came across something that was ambiguous or unclear — which of course was fairly often.

    In short, Sitchin just wasn't any kind of true scholar at all. That's why (as in my post quoted above) Michael Heiser became so exasperated when he failed to verify Sitchin's translations. Quite a lot of what he wrote wasn't really 'translated' at all... it was often far more of a creative, channel-inspired, speculative, interpretation.

    I just added a bit of speculation at the end of my post above - which may or may not be relevant... ... but either way it's kind of fun to think about the possibility...and could THAT be considered a somewhat direct 'live stream' method of channelling -

    If Sitchin didn't translate the Sumerian Tablets in a traditionally scholarly way ...perhaps he was 'chosen' to bring the general story to us Earthlings....

    By some group or someone...

    ??
    I believe that you are correct - he was certainly chosen - by his friends in the CIA and NSA. Chosen to deceive millions of minds that deserve to know the truth, chosen to push an agenda that will help to push us as sheep onto the alien vessels, chosen to betray his fellow humans - and all for fame and money - and, of course, the furthering of their deceitful agenda.
    Heiser is more of an Akkadian and Biblical scholar as well - he's not known in the Sumerian translation arena. But he is super smart, determined, and you have to give him credit for his efforts at reaching some truth.

    Maxwell knew a great deal. And he shared a great deal - he was, in my opinion, one who cared. And perhaps chose not to share everything - but that's because the entire story is so sad, and so bizarre, and so hateful, that it would lead to worldwide depression just by revealing it. I know that I have been in a similar position, and believe me, knowing even some of the whole story is not what I thought it would be before I began. If I had known I probably would have gone a different route.

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by John Hilton (here)
    This video might be relevant as Sitchin is mentioned several times:

    Joseph Farrell Tesla Great Pyramid Mystery

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYUhvzn8-6Y
    I hope so!
    That's a funny coincidence - before I read your post I had downloaded the video for tonight - I'm on the DJ mailing list.

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Bill and others. I have had a chance to read the posts that Bill suggested. Yes, very appropriate and interesting indeed. I made a few comments:

    [Two posts of mine which seem relevant. @Jim, this thread might be interesting to you:
    Cuneiform Sumerian translations ]
    Yes, thanks -for reminding me - that was the post that I read a few years ago that astounded me. I suspected, but had no evidence, that he was full of crap. And by that I am not meaning to denegrate the fine people who truly do have gifts of telepathic guidance, but rather I consider his mention of it as a slap in the face to those that are trutly gifted. I'm not sure that I am not. I was sure for many years that I had no gift, but then I began considering the many times that I have awoken with breakthroughs clear in my mind - so perhaps someone is whispering the answers to me while I sleep.


    [ So we have some of their DNA mixed with that of some animals indigenous to Earth.
    If they were black or white or whatever, they could manipulate DNA to virtually anything they wanted.
    We need to be prepared for anything. Lets say they happen to be cannibalistic as some Reptilians are said to be. ] If I was asked for a list of the biggest lies we have been "sold", the idea that the aliens created us, mixed us with their DNA, or otherwise produced us, is in first place. They did transport us, from our planets of origin (6 or possibly 7 planets - still tying down this part), and took Neanderthals back with them to even other locations. And the second is the reptilian idea - this is simply a confusion over their dry, scaly skin, which perhaps resulted from the Sun that they lived under. AND it only occurs in the Enlil group from near Sirius - the ones aligned to Enki, who tried to help mankind in its early stages, are not reported to have this condition (and they are from another star group entirely - much closer to humaniites planets of origin). Enlil, in the Sumerian tablets, was the Commander of the expedition, and Enki his second in command. That's not my idea, it's what the translations tell me.

    Another interesting connection. When I translated the fast burst transmissions from space, they strangly mention God, several times. They explain that they are religious, to the extent that they acknowledge a creator God for all human-resembling entities on a great many worlds. That's why the Wow Signal from Ohio University translates as "Have Faith". They did not know Jesus, or one like him, but perhaps he was not needed on their planets as yet. They are very candid when they explain that the Creator, created, and then moved on. His role was to create, to ensure that the creations had a chance, and then to push further into the void to repeat this indefinitely. They believe that he is still at work, somewhere out there.

    [The Niburuians (I coined that my self) are sure to land in some remote place like Africa where they were before. ] Sitchin dreamed up the part about Africa as well. Any astronomer will tell you that gold is one of the most common elements in the universe. Any good old meteor will contain chunks of it - simple to mine, close at hand. But what Sitchin did not tell us, is that along with gold comes some very precious, universally rare, minerals and isotopes. What we call the rare-earth types. Now those they might have gone for.

    [ Re: Nibiru's return.... There is no way to prepare for this if it takes place.
    Except to hope that we make great pets. ] Well, I beg to differ. There are several things that we can do, and will do, to prepare ourselves. They are very advanced, and very smart, but they also have very clear flaws in their character and personality, and that will be their ending. I have three ideas at play - one of which involves the same type of microwave radar that brought down the crafts at Roswell and was borrowed by England to bring down the craft (intentionally and as a form of underhanded dealing on our part) in northern England in 1953. So we know it works.

    FROM Bill: [Re: Nibiru's return....
    No way have the Anunnaki been hanging around on some icy planetoid way out near the orbit of Pluto (or beyond!) waiting patiently for it to gradually get closer. Sitchin was way off base on that.

    The Anunnaki, who are an ancient race, have advanced spacefaring technology already, and can get here any time they like — and may well be here now. We have no idea what star system they may be from.] Agreed, fully. Except that we are told by the Sumerians where they are from, exactly.
    I'd like to comment on their transportation as well. If any still believe that the human-imposed "speed-limit" of the speed of light applies to anyone except Earthlings, he only needs to study Tesla. In his reports, on two occasions when he spoke to the press, he gave figures for the time that it took certain of his radio signals to circumnavigate the globe. And if any of the reporters had simply "done the math" as I have, they would learn that they were propogated at a speed of 1.43 times that of light. And my second point is that anything moving faster than light would, using common sense, not be visible to human eyes. Faster than the light can reach our eyes is another way of putting it. So when they "appear" out of seemingly nowhere, and our scientists tell us that this might indicate another dimension, the truth is that they simply stopped their FTL movement, and thus became visible to us. The same thing when they leave and seem to blink out of existence. Hello - faster than the light can reach our eyes. So yes, obviously they can do FTL.
    However, in the Sumerian texts and in the Bible, they mention taking slaves of humans and cooling them down - freezing them. Now, how is it that a desert people five thousand years ago even knew of cooling things down? And yet both languages have a word for it, so it must have been known to them. Cryogenic transport. Simple.

    BTW - here are not one but four words in Sumerian for that concept:
    bar šed "to cool down"
    ni ten "to cool off"
    sed "(to be) cold; to cool, soothe; winter"
    ten "(to be) cool, become cool; (to make) cool, calm; to extinguish; (to be) appeased"

    Yes, the first three might indicate snow or ice on the top of the mountains near Sumeria.
    But the fourth one, ten, means "to make cool", indicating the action of making something cool, and when combined with other terms they sused such as "shiny, metal, boat or ship, load lke animals" I think we get the picture.


    [Much of what Sitchin wrote about the Annunaki cannot be precisely corroborated but his translations indicated that those who were on Earth for extended periods developed problems with aging and could not return to Niburu. ] One reason that the good group had to hide their messages inside of other texts, both in the Sumerian and Biblical texts, is explained as Enki's group needing to use the service of the cloning machines that manufactured the needed body parts as they wore out - and those were in the control of the Captain - Enlil. Had what I call the good group been other than somewhat "good" in relation to humanity, is that they could have used human body parts if they were not friendly to us. We were sent as slaves to the stars, for fresher DNA that was not damaged by space travel, for body parts, and for sexual slavery as well. What will perhaps make you throw up, as it did me, is that both the Sumerians and the Bible authors tells us that it was children and women that they were mostly interested in exporting. And their distant relatives live among us today, thinking themselves above us as part gods, and they also like to trafic in children and have islands dedicated to the delights of the rich and powerful - who can understand that and not understand that they are still here today?


    Bill - another that you commented on: [Re: Nibiru's return....
    Quote Posted by Leonard (here)
    The bad ones are hidden in the hollow earth ] I mentioned in another topic the location of the original stone tablets of information guarded by Enosh down to Job and Abraham, and that they are buried in Emar, Syria, in the back of the temple there on the mount. But I also know the location of Kur, the mountain home of the sky-gods, home to Enlil and company while here on Earth, and in those underground hives entered through caves, we will perhaps find some of that alien tech or knowledge. I can put us within 500 feet of it, of that I am sure, based on landmarks provided. That's also one of the three methods of defence that I am working on - finding that knowledge.


    liekeze Has it correct: [Niburu is a ship, not a planet. And the Anunakene look just like us, rather we look just like them, because we ARE them...in a certain sense. ] Niburu is a person, or one of his ancestry, driving a ship. And they do look like us because they placed us here. In all honestly I do not know why - it is never mentioned - at least not in the hundreds of tablets I have worked on. But since there were 6 or 7 planets of origin for us, and all of them centered between our modern constellations of Cygnus and Lyra, I would suppose some type of astronomical event that effected that sector of space. Their intention may have been humanitarian in nature, but was ruined when Enlil decided that he wished to be a god, rather than someone helping us to adjust.

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Pardon me if I missed it but what of the Izizi? Issisi? The ones that stayed in orbit.

    Sitchin also spoke of the Watchers. Any of that come through your translations?
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)
    Quote I'm sure you know Jordan Maxwell or knew of Jordan before he passed away the late Jordan Maxwell - but Jordan told me one time - he said Mike... Sitchin told me that that book is is not channeled and it's not fiction he said that Sitchin told him that enki is still alive and dictated it to him that it's basically like Interview with a Vampire only it's interview with an anunnaki...
    Yes, Jordan Maxwell told me something very similar back in 2010. (He'd known Sitchin very well as a close friend.)

    Mike Bara goes a little further here, but Jordan was adamant with me that Sitchin took huge 'inspirational' liberties with his translation, seeking some kind of 'channeled' input or clarification when he came across something that was ambiguous or unclear — which of course was fairly often.

    In short, Sitchin just wasn't any kind of true scholar at all. That's why (as in my post quoted above) Michael Heiser became so exasperated when he failed to verify Sitchin's translations. Quite a lot of what he wrote wasn't really 'translated' at all... it was often far more of a creative, channel-inspired, speculative, interpretation.

    I just added a bit of speculation at the end of my post above - which may or may not be relevant... ... but either way it's kind of fun to think about the possibility...and could THAT be considered a somewhat direct 'live stream' method of channelling -

    If Sitchin didn't translate the Sumerian Tablets in a traditionally scholarly way ...perhaps he was 'chosen' to bring the general story to us Earthlings....

    By some group or someone...

    ??
    I believe that you are correct - he was certainly chosen - by his friends in the CIA and NSA. Chosen to deceive millions of minds that deserve to know the truth, chosen to push an agenda that will help to push us as sheep onto the alien vessels, chosen to betray his fellow humans - and all for fame and money - and, of course, the furthering of their deceitful agenda.

    those are harsh and judgemental words.....and the bit about 'push us as sheep onto the alien vessels...' is a mysterious thing to say...if Sitchin had friends in the CIA and NSA could they have been some of the 'White Hat' ones that are on 'our' side...? maybe tasked with getting the story out to educate people about our origins... ?


    Quote Heiser is more of an Akkadian and Biblical scholar as well - he's not known in the Sumerian translation arena. But he is super smart, determined, and you have to give him credit for his efforts at reaching some truth.

    Maxwell knew a great deal. And he shared a great deal - he was, in my opinion, one who cared. And perhaps chose not to share everything - but that's because the entire story is so sad, and so bizarre, and so hateful, that it would lead to worldwide depression just by revealing it. I know that I have been in a similar position, and believe me, knowing even some of the whole story is not what I thought it would be before I began. If I had known I probably would have gone a different route.

    depressing or not ... that sounds intriguing - perhaps you can say more about that one day - we are kind of used to sad, bizarre and hateful stuff at the mo... bring it on... I'm sure we can take it.... (fingers crossed)

    anyway - here's Jordan Maxwell interviewing Sitchin....



    Jordan Maxwell - Private Interview with Zecharia Sitchin

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
    [Sitchin] was certainly chosen - by his friends in the CIA and NSA.
    Yes, Jordan told me personally that Sitchin had close ties with the NSA. Most interestingly, he said that Sitchin was periodically invited, along with other 'psychics' (none of them known by or named by Jordan), to attend NSA-led meetings in which the psychics would report and share what they felt they knew, or sensed, about ET and/or non-human activities. Sitchin was apparently included in that group every time.

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Pardon me if I missed it but what of the Izizi? Issisi? The ones that stayed in orbit.

    Sitchin also spoke of the Watchers. Any of that come through your translations?
    My bad Ernie, I forgot to mention them. The Sumerians tell us that they were the ones who, from the sky, watched over everything the humans and others did, down below. And that they sometimes were used to collect humans to bring to Kur, the mountain home of the sky-gods and a place for transport.
    The Biblical authors tell us that the Watchers are the ones that brought them back and forth from Earth to other planets. A sort of transport crew, but they also picked up humans. So perhaps the military or enforcement group.
    Thanks for reminding me.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
    [Sitchin] was certainly chosen - by his friends in the CIA and NSA.
    Yes, Jordan told me personally that Sitchin had close ties with the NSA. Most interestingly, he said that Sitchin was periodically invited, along with other 'psychics' (none of them known by or named by Jordan), to attend NSA-led meetings in which the psychics would report and share what they felt they knew, or sensed, about ET and/or non-human activities. Sitchin was apparently included in that group every time.
    Thank's again Bill, it was your earlier mention that caused me to look deeper into Sitchin, and then I found both NSA and CIA ties.
    Great topic - thanks to all of the posters.

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)
    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)
    Quote I'm sure you know Jordan Maxwell or knew of Jordan before he passed away the late Jordan Maxwell - but Jordan told me one time - he said Mike... Sitchin told me that that book is is not channeled and it's not fiction he said that Sitchin told him that enki is still alive and dictated it to him that it's basically like Interview with a Vampire only it's interview with an anunnaki...
    Yes, Jordan Maxwell told me something very similar back in 2010. (He'd known Sitchin very well as a close friend.)

    Mike Bara goes a little further here, but Jordan was adamant with me that Sitchin took huge 'inspirational' liberties with his translation, seeking some kind of 'channeled' input or clarification when he came across something that was ambiguous or unclear — which of course was fairly often.

    In short, Sitchin just wasn't any kind of true scholar at all. That's why (as in my post quoted above) Michael Heiser became so exasperated when he failed to verify Sitchin's translations. Quite a lot of what he wrote wasn't really 'translated' at all... it was often far more of a creative, channel-inspired, speculative, interpretation.

    I just added a bit of speculation at the end of my post above - which may or may not be relevant... ... but either way it's kind of fun to think about the possibility...and could THAT be considered a somewhat direct 'live stream' method of channelling -

    If Sitchin didn't translate the Sumerian Tablets in a traditionally scholarly way ...perhaps he was 'chosen' to bring the general story to us Earthlings....

    By some group or someone...

    ??
    I believe that you are correct - he was certainly chosen - by his friends in the CIA and NSA. Chosen to deceive millions of minds that deserve to know the truth, chosen to push an agenda that will help to push us as sheep onto the alien vessels, chosen to betray his fellow humans - and all for fame and money - and, of course, the furthering of their deceitful agenda.

    those are harsh and judgemental words.....and the bit about 'push us as sheep onto the alien vessels...' is a mysterious thing to say...if Sitchin had friends in the CIA and NSA could they have been some of the 'White Hat' ones that are on 'our' side...? maybe tasked with getting the story out to educate people about our origins... ?


    Quote Heiser is more of an Akkadian and Biblical scholar as well - he's not known in the Sumerian translation arena. But he is super smart, determined, and you have to give him credit for his efforts at reaching some truth.

    Maxwell knew a great deal. And he shared a great deal - he was, in my opinion, one who cared. And perhaps chose not to share everything - but that's because the entire story is so sad, and so bizarre, and so hateful, that it would lead to worldwide depression just by revealing it. I know that I have been in a similar position, and believe me, knowing even some of the whole story is not what I thought it would be before I began. If I had known I probably would have gone a different route.

    depressing or not ... that sounds intriguing - perhaps you can say more about that one day - we are kind of used to sad, bizarre and hateful stuff at the mo... bring it on... I'm sure we can take it.... (fingers crossed)

    anyway - here's Jordan Maxwell interviewing Sitchin....



    Jordan Maxwell - Private Interview with Zecharia Sitchin
    Well, White Hat CIA, NSA. Hmmm. Perhaps those exist, but if so we will never learn anything from them that has not been approved for publication - Top Secret doesn't work any other way. Yes, I get angry about Sitchin, but it's not personal - I didn't know him, never knew him, never read any of his books either. When I saw his work in Akkadian, which he called Sumerian, and realized that he was blowing smoke and corrupting the minds of young readers - I steered clear.
    Harsh terms perhaps, but what can you call someone who is supposedly a "scholar" who relates information that he knows to be less than the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
    His books were popular, I will agree. But that is not always an indication of historical value, just popular value.

    I'll try to publish some of the sad parts here. I could offer truly sad tales from the Sumerians, the Biblical authors, and even from the Anglo-Saxons, Norse, and that group - in the early middle ages (500s AD). All had them. Not all were about aliens.
    Every time that one group were weaker, and got shafted by the stronger or larger group, they wrote sad tales about it.
    Weaker doesn't always mean numbers - so we should keep this in mind going forward.
    The saddest to me involves the abduction of infants. I can't stand that thought.

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
    My research tells me it was 468,000 years ago that one group entered - no mention of any connection with Enlil or Marduk, so perhaps an even earlier group.
    Scratching my head a little trying to, in a sense, tessellate this ancient origin-story with that which was provided by Cayce, being the Atlantean experience that ended some 12,000 years ago.

    According to his account, what emerged as humanity began in Lemuria in the etheric domain [in which human intelligence was previously contained], condensing eventually into the physical somewhere in the region of 10 million years ago.

    But that's at strong variance to this far later 'Annunaki' story, and I can't seem to find a common thread that would link them together. Do you have any further insight on this?
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    From what we are told the name Anunnaki means, by anthropological secular scientism . . . . "Princely Seed" and others have said "Those who came from the sky", it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say "Those who fell to earth and set up the principality under the (fallen) Prince of Darkness".

    I know I don't buy the idea that they created us. I think they are/were a menace around here.

    I also suspect they are part of the Nephilim phenomena, maybe the progenitors of them.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
    My research tells me it was 468,000 years ago that one group entered - no mention of any connection with Enlil or Marduk, so perhaps an even earlier group.
    Scratching my head a little trying to, in a sense, tessellate this ancient origin-story with that which was provided by Cayce, being the Atlantean experience that ended some 12,000 years ago.

    According to his account, what emerged as humanity began in Lemuria in the etheric domain [in which human intelligence was previously contained], condensing eventually into the physical somewhere in the region of 10 million years ago.

    But that's at strong variance to this far later 'Annunaki' story, and I can't seem to find a common thread that would link them together. Do you have any further insight on this?
    Thank you Mark (Star Mariner)
    I don't believe that Cayce and my own research are that far apart. About 12,000 years ago is when mankind was subjected to yet another wave of interruptions in his historical record on Earth. When Cayce speaks of millions of years ago on Earth, he is speaking of the humans that lived here prior to the introduction of the dominant race of today - us - that arrived roughly some 70,000 years ago.

    In other words, when the Sumerians mention that we were brought and that some Neanderthal (and Denisovians and others of that type as well) were taken back (with no indication of where back indicates, but probably back to the home planetary group of Enlil, which would be somewhere in the triangle of Sirius and Beetlegeuse), so his ideas do match what the Sumerians tell us.
    We might wish to keep in mind that the Sumerians were not Persian, not Arabic, not Hebrews. Their origin can be placed quite safely in northern Anatolia (modern Turkey) into the Caucasus Mountain region, and before 12000 BC. I mention that because one comment I received (not on here of course) is "why believe the Sumerians - they're just a bunch of Islamic Arabs. This was from a professed Christian who did not like my contradiction of one part of the Biblical texts. The translation that yields "black-headed" is also in error, but that's for another day.

    I don't disagree with him in respect to Lemuria either - but they were a branch of the original Atlantis peoples who occupied a position quite near the north pole region. Europeans (and by extension Americans) have 1/3rd of their native DNA from this group. But you have to look deep into the science journals to find that tidbit. The other third were native to Europe and the final third from the plains of southern Russia area (and the Caucasus as well).

    What's interesting is that we have people that indicate the Ashkenazi as being an input to the Jews of Europe. And they usually associate this with some type of slur, as in - the Jews are not actually all from Palestine but some from there. Well, they were, but if you connect the dots (wine drunk by Noah, first produced in Georgia - Caucasus) and the SH syllable groups that are popular with the Hebrews, plus the association of the Hurrians and Hatti, from that region, with Job and Abraham, and the fact is that the origin of one important part of what we call Jews today is from the Ashkenazi region, if you go back to 7500 BC or so.

    I am pro-Palestinian in the current conflict, but not ever anti-Semitic, just to give you an idea of why my research is balanced. If you look closely, the Jews of Israel have a large portion of Syrian, Iranian, Iraqi, Arabic, Egyptian and
    Hittite-Hatti-Hurrian blood, so they are something like the original Heinz 57 mix. Nothing wrong with that - many of us do.

    The Annunaki did not just subjugate, enslave, and brutally control the early Sumerians, Akkadians, Syrians, Babylonians, Amorites, Egyptians and others - it's just that we have uncovered the most written evidence from those groups.
    I spend time trying to figure out what happened back then - because, and in the not too distant future, we may face that same type of denigration of our races on Earth. And there may be (are) some clues on how our ancestors lived through it.

    I'm a firm believer in the two groups - one angry, with little concern for humanity, the other less-powerful, helpful to the extent that they can, helped humanity in the past and based on the fast burst radio transmissions seem willing to do so in the present - but in reality, at the end it will really be up to us. And to add to that level of concern, we will have to root out and deal with the quislings who have been aiding the evil group all along. They're easy to identify - powerful, connected, few in number, psychopathic personalities, and deviant sexual behavior, often associated with children. We can all think of a half-dozen right off the bat.

    To go back to your comment and finish this (because I am back to work today, ha ha) Cayce may be correct that humans were first placed on Earth in Lemuria. My research ties the early group on Easter Island with the mummies on the shores of north Chile and Southern Peru, and to the green blood observed, along with enlarged skulls, on some of them.
    When they dug up the bottom half of the standing stones on Easter Island - finally, one of the symbols on the back of them can also be found in the Mayan ball courts, for example. So yes, that and the fact that the Tiwanaku people call their temple the "navel" of the world, tells us that probably the center of the Pacific was of importance early on. But more to the Central and South Americans than to Europeans, who were more connected with the group in the far north.

    I will be publishing, eventually, a book that includes a map that I discovered. The map has been dated by not one but three teams of archaeologists to 2000 BC, but the signs on it show Theban as the north star, so that puts it back to 3700 BC. And the map is of the North Pole, complete with all of the major islands, accurately depicting the ingress and egress from England to Alaska, all of the small inlets in Canada, etc., and it shows a large lake in the center of Greenland - which our scientists tell us does indeed exist under the snow, and was once a viable lake, but way, way back. Think of Piri Reis on steroids.
    They will for sure hate me for that one, because that means the Native Americans and Europeans are cousins at least, if not brothers in fact.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    UPDATE: I'm back working to complete a chapter on the Wadi el Hol symbols, as I mentioned, and I need to correct an error in my statement. I was using the dates put forth by the archaeologists - why? No idea, because I know they are often wrong.
    I have finished that translation, and will finish the complete alphabet this week, and it is indeed proto-Sumerian, but NOT from the 1900-1700 BC that they told me, but from 3500 BC. And I am sure of that dating +- 200 years. And ENLIL is mentioned in the translation. It seems one of the Cainite group from Elam journeyed by boat to Egypt and left those markings. But he was joining a group of Cain tribes that lived there at the time. So not only did they have the language wrong (Sumerian and not proto-Sinitic) the dates and associations as well. Anyway, it confirms what my translations of the Biblical texts say and is even tighter evidence that they were accurate in what they tell us.

    The Cain group of Amorites would become mixed with Arabs and Egyptians and then move into Jerusalem later along with the family of Moses (also Cainites or Kenites) and become blended with the Jews of Israel. And they mixed with the Abrahamic group who had already mixed with the Caanite locals. So, Palestinians vs Jews? How? They're the same people!

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by The Moss Trooper (here)
    Maybe the effects that precede Marduk's arrival, like the waterline dropping excessively before a tsunami reaches the shoreline, maybe the nature of Marduk's arrival itself could be massively damaging in ways we are not aware of......... Bare in mind, these mention nothing of Marduk himself, his form, his intentions or why he has indeed, come back.

    Not long, in the scheme of things, to wait.
    Indeed. Considering the nature of the times and the solar systemic response to the mounting of the galactic current sheet, increased meteoritic and asteroid strikes, the increasing heating of the planets of the solar system all presuage what has been a cyclical journey of becoming for oceanic humanity. I'm curious as to the form especially, as well as the energetic nature of this shift's apex expression. The fall and rise of civilizations, the inevitable clash of contradictory core value systems and the rising intensity of psychological emergencies on the part of a significant proportion of humanity all seem to accompany this shift.

    Velikovsky's work seems more and more salient each day.

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
    I will be publishing, eventually, a book that includes a map that I discovered. The map has been dated by not one but three teams of archaeologists to 2000 BC, but the signs on it show Theban as the north star, so that puts it back to 3700 BC. And the map is of the North Pole, complete with all of the major islands, accurately depicting the ingress and egress from England to Alaska, all of the small inlets in Canada, etc., and it shows a large lake in the center of Greenland - which our scientists tell us does indeed exist under the snow, and was once a viable lake, but way, way back.
    Many thanks for the thoughtful reply, that's fascinating. Any possibility of posting the map here? If it does indeed depict Greenland without an ice-sheet, I'd surmise it's far older than 3700 BC.

    Based on many pre-historical snippets of Cayce's readings we can gather that the Earth before the Atlantean cataclysm was indeed very different. There was a pole shift at that time, which likely caused or accelerated the demise of Atlantis. In those ancient days the Sahara was green, and the Nile River flowed not north into the Mediterranean but west into the Atlantic. Antarctica too was green and lush, and much of North America was either covered by ice or under water. Cayce said that many Atlanteans fled (after the disaster) to Europe and Egypt, but others to the Yucatan, and across the waters to a large island grouping that today is Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and to as far north as Ohio (these were the original Mound Builders).

    Interestingly though, we learn also that there were pockets of civilization already existing in other places in the world, and at least one other major, sophisticated civilization. There is very little mention of them anywhere (on this forum or otherwise). This culture has been totally scrubbed from the record, if not the face of the Earth, and almost nothing whatsoever is known about it or its people. And that is the Gobi, those who lived in what is now the barren, empty Gobi Desert in present day Mongolia. Once green and fertile the Gobi was home to an advanced and flourishing people, and post-Atlantis, a group of survivors went to join the Gobi. Allegedly, somewhere under those desert sands, lies a Temple of Gold that once housed the princesses of Poseidia sheltering in exile. Additionally, we hear of another group of Atlantean survivors who settled the Indus Valley to birth a new civilization there, of which only fragments now remain (and tantalizing clues that a terrible destruction befell them, one that had the hallmarks of something potentially nuclear).

    This is all to say, that for a brief period humanity rebooted after Atlantis, and got off to a very promising start. Consider this extract from the Cayce readings (1939):
    “[entity was] in Atlantean land of Poseidian peoples when there was the breaking up of the land, among those who came to Pyranees and then to Egypt, active in preserving records – using powers called in the present natural sources or electrical forces for propelling vehicles, ships, and for conveniences and communications.”
    If in Egypt, in 10,500BC, we had electrical power, communications technology, 'ships that could float on the air' and the moral tenets to guide society in the shape of the Law of One...what the hell went wrong? If we had all that and so long ago we could be, we should be, a Type 2 Civilization by now. But by the Early Dynastic period (~3,000BC) we find the same Egyptians had regressed to a simple people steeped in myth and superstition. All that ancient wisdom gone, all that technology lost.

    In fact, an answer now comes to me that may answer my original question:

    Did this reboot of world civilization post-Atlantis fail due to external interference? Might THIS be where the Anunnaki come in? With the power and glory of the Atlanteans gone, or at least far reduced, was the Earth now ripe to be conquered?
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
    I will be publishing, eventually, a book that includes a map that I discovered. The map has been dated by not one but three teams of archaeologists to 2000 BC, but the signs on it show Theban as the north star, so that puts it back to 3700 BC. And the map is of the North Pole, complete with all of the major islands, accurately depicting the ingress and egress from England to Alaska, all of the small inlets in Canada, etc., and it shows a large lake in the center of Greenland - which our scientists tell us does indeed exist under the snow, and was once a viable lake, but way, way back.
    Many thanks for the thoughtful reply, that's fascinating. Any possibility of posting the map here? If it does indeed depict Greenland without an ice-sheet, I'd surmise it's far older than 3700 BC.

    Based on many pre-historical snippets of Cayce's readings we can gather that the Earth before the Atlantean cataclysm was indeed very different. There was a pole shift at that time, which likely caused or accelerated the demise of Atlantis. In those ancient days the Sahara was green, and the Nile River flowed not north into the Mediterranean but west into the Atlantic. Antarctica too was green and lush, and much of North America was either covered by ice or under water. Cayce said that many Atlanteans fled (after the disaster) to Europe and Egypt, but others to the Yucatan, and across the waters to a large island grouping that today is Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and to as far north as Ohio (these were the original Mound Builders).

    Interestingly though, we learn also that there were pockets of civilization already existing in other places in the world, and at least one other major, sophisticated civilization. There is very little mention of them anywhere (on this forum or otherwise). This culture has been totally scrubbed from the record, if not the face of the Earth, and almost nothing whatsoever is known about it or its people. And that is the Gobi, those who lived in what is now the barren, empty Gobi Desert in present day Mongolia. Once green and fertile the Gobi was home to an advanced and flourishing people, and post-Atlantis, a group of survivors went to join the Gobi. Allegedly, somewhere under those desert sands, lies a Temple of Gold that once housed the princesses of Poseidia sheltering in exile. Additionally, we hear of another group of Atlantean survivors who settled the Indus Valley to birth a new civilization there, of which only fragments now remain (and tantalizing clues that a terrible destruction befell them, one that had the hallmarks of something potentially nuclear).

    This is all to say, that for a brief period humanity rebooted after Atlantis, and got off to a very promising start. Consider this extract from the Cayce readings (1939):
    “[entity was] in Atlantean land of Poseidian peoples when there was the breaking up of the land, among those who came to Pyranees and then to Egypt, active in preserving records – using powers called in the present natural sources or electrical forces for propelling vehicles, ships, and for conveniences and communications.”
    If in Egypt, in 10,500BC, we had electrical power, communications technology, 'ships that could float on the air' and the moral tenets to guide society in the shape of the Law of One...what the hell went wrong? If we had all that and so long ago we could be, we should be, a Type 2 Civilization by now. But by the Early Dynastic period (~3,000BC) we find the same Egyptians had regressed to a simple people steeped in myth and superstition. All that ancient wisdom gone, all that technology lost.

    In fact, an answer now comes to me that may answer my original question:

    Did this reboot of world civilization post-Atlantis fail due to external interference? Might THIS be where the Anunnaki come in? With the power and glory of the Atlanteans gone, or at least far reduced, was the Earth now ripe to be conquered?
    Wow. Your ability to connect the dots is truly amazing. I believe that outsiders did indeed cause this loss, and further that they knew about, or steered, a comet or other body that resulted in the lowering of mankind's intelligence over the millennium. In fact we know that the Neanderthal had 1900 CC brains, the Boskop man in South Africa 2100 CC, and when we first started out as Cro-Magnons we had 1650 - but we are now down below 1300, (and even lower for some groups).
    I have to finish the one I am on and then I will publish the map and put it on here as well for discussion.

    BTW - my conclusions, after too many years of research is that this group does not want us to know. The symbols in Egypt that they call proto-Canaanite and date to 1500 BC? Anyone, and I mean any competent Sumerian translator who knows proto-Sumerian symbol languages would recognize them instantly as belonging to that group. Yes, there are only about 70 in the world now that are competent in those symbols, but all 70 (except myself) are in positions of authority at Universities or working for the NSA. So, it is intention that they are throwing us in the wrong direction. And, the markings that the police Sargent found in Socorro were intentionally changed by the military or intelligence to create a new message. By changing the symbols that said "we adventure and learn" to "war is our passion" they both muddy the waters and plant an agenda that all aliens will be evil. When they intentionally bring down at least two craft, and probably more, and then fail to mention this, it makes the evidence stronger.

    I did not want to publish my book on the Corona remedy. Because I realized that two things were happening - it was a perfect match for the same type of symbol alphabet that I mentioned only 70 know about (or fewer). And the same one that is used by the Sumerians and the Biblical authors to warn us. So I knew that either this was a government plant to throw me off - since I was approached personally by the whistle blower - or it was an actual communication from those that wish to try to help us. And history has shown that everything, every part of the remedy and every association between the USA and China working together to poison the Earth is not only true but was given to me prior to the major spread.

    So yes, we do have allies, and yes they seem to have contacted me in an oblique fashion - probably due to my other posts on the net.

    I had finished (yes, actually finished and edited, ready to publish) a book on the discs (Dropa) found in China and reported on in a few magazines. The ones that speak of aliens crashing 10,000 years ago. And where they crashed, and the trail that leads direct to that spot, is from a location in the Gobi desert, where teams of Nazi archaeologists as well as American and British and Japanese and French spies gathered to search for it.
    I will try to get that out right away. It's done after all, and I was holding it because I was advised to publish three or so at a time so that the interest would help each of them to rise.

    I'm no longer furnishing the titles and will not publish under my own name, because there is a group of Russian (probably more likely Eastern block) types that are stalking me whenever I write anything, and they will steal and sell my work. I know this because they keep approaching me asking for my next book, and they put the Corona book up as a pirated copy right after I submitted it to Amazon. They also seem to join every forum that I do. Now I communicate only on this one - I quit all the others.

    But I will let you all know after it has sold a few, and share what I can of course. Jim

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)

    So, Palestinians vs Jews? How? They're the same people!
    I reached a similar conclusion by coming at it from a different direction.

    If a group/race of converted/impostor "jews", with no direct line of decent from the ancient people of the Levant, intend to complete a process of stealing the identity and inheritance of the originals, what would they do to the remaining original genetic living legacy even if it is by now diluted somewhat with other local genetics.

    They'd set about eliminating all traces of the original genetics. Perhaps that would first look like crushing them into a ghetto to dehumanise and radicalise them into a 'legitimate' threat worthy of heavy handed slaughter tactics disguised as self defence. They'd want to do that before anyone else joined enough dots to do a serious genetic study of the locals.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Nibiru: What Sitchin did not tell us

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)

    So, Palestinians vs Jews? How? They're the same people!
    I reached a similar conclusion by coming at it from a different direction.

    If a group/race of converted/impostor "jews", with no direct line of decent from the ancient people of the Levant, intend to complete a process of stealing the identity and inheritance of the originals, what would they do to the remaining original genetic living legacy even if it is by now diluted somewhat with other local genetics.

    They'd set about eliminating all traces of the original genetics. Perhaps that would first look like crushing them into a ghetto to dehumanise and radicalise them into a 'legitimate' threat worthy of heavy handed slaughter tactics disguised as self defence. They'd want to do that before anyone else joined enough dots to do a serious genetic study of the locals.
    Yes. But we might wish to keep in mind that this was with the assistance of the British - politically, and the Americans, monetarily and politically, and it is on-going. Anyone who looks at a map from 1949, with a few small dots representing Israel held territory and then compares it with today's map, would have to agree that the expansion is real and it came at a cost - to their neighbors. Whether provoked or not, they seem to have come out on top. And provoking is easily manufactured - just ask those responsible for the false flags beginning in Vietnam.

    I try to avoid making statements that might be seen as Anti-Semitic, and especially because I have Jewish friends that I grew up with since pre-school and I most definitely am not anti Jewish. That's why I only post facts, evidence that has been double-checked, and if those facts paint a negative picture of some, and again, the lower ranks are in not much better position than our own lower ranks are in comparison to the ones now calling the shots, the few who are deserving of answering for those facts, then so be it. And I feel that I must post that data because we have a few, again a few, from our Christian ranks, who will go to any lengths to hide or shape the truth if it lends support to the narrative that we have been taught.

    Lutheran Ministers, for example, discovered the name Abraham in the Sumerian texts, published it as a Yale book but then restricted the sale to only academics - all so that the truth that he was a scribe in Sumeria in 2000 BC would not come out. They feared that this would bolster claims that Abraham copied the Sumerian tales for the Bible. Nothing could be further from the truth, but lacking the skills and integrity to dig deeper they instead chose to add to our suffering due to lack of knowledge. So yes, I step on toes sometimes to get there.

    And this is one of those occasions. They are all the same people if you go back to the time of Abraham and run forward. That's not a slander, it's documented fact.
    Last edited by Jim_Duyer; 14th November 2023 at 16:30.

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