Should Christians support Israeli military action?

[ExomatrixTV]

There are maybe many Christians who are visiting our P.A. forum from all over the world who are not forum-members nor "in to conspiracies" nor in to "controversial thinking" and are surrounded by loved ones believing the status quo talking points narratives not questioning nor challenging it by default.

• I wonder if they're starting to feel the need to challenge these mass hypnoses tactics after reading our efforts here or not ... In my view, True Christians do not fear "what others might think" to do the right thing! ... and I personally met many of them in the last 33 years of me being very proactive in the alternative media scene, organizing big conferences, giving 80+ lectures, being co-founder of 2 magazines.
• When I meet these True Christians personally face to face, I really genuinely appreciate their efforts to stand out to be brave and walk the talk ... The same goes for any other religious people! ... Even if I see myself being beyond religion & religious dogma ... The same goes for Atheists belief-systems with their priests and hierarchical thinking.
• No matter who you are, if you have the courage to stand out and questioning the mass hypnoses, we all can find a mutual goal: ... "A New Kind of Unity Against Top-down Tyranny!" (aka against their Transhumanist Dystopian Authoritarian Technocracy demanding blind obedience from the masses conditioned 24/7 to be willful slaves serving the unchallenged* WEF Agenda2030 & NetZero2050 unelected "Global Governance").

* unchallenged by most people working for mainstream media (who are because of that fact complicit in organized crime against humanity!).

cheers,
John Kuhles 🦜🦋🌳

[Kryztian]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I received a well-written and most intelligent message yesterday from a good friend, whom I very much respect, explaining that they felt obliged to support Israel in their current military campaign, come what may, because they were a Christian.

Bill:

Do you think you could persuade your friend to give us a longer explanation about why Christians (and Kryztians) should support Israeli military action? I think it would benefit many to understand this line of thought better.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I don't mind stating it is me Bill is referring to in the quote above.

You can see my arguments in the posts on this thread.


For more clarity I can add that I don't hold this position in a vacuum. I deal with all types from every nation on earth as a tradesman in Canada. I always find the ones open to friendly conversation. I have a good sense of the 'on-the-ground' sentiment from various places around the globe. For instance I knew about the Niger genocide years ago from a coworker who liked me and warned me of what was to come.

From the Israelis I have learnt of their struggles, not the leadership, but those who suffer their betters' precepts.
From Ukrainians and Russians I learnt of the meaninglessness of that war, as all are Slavs. They all know this is the work of the US and the EU.

Muslims are a harder nut to crack, much harder. Recently I found an inroad and I am learning about their beliefs and customs from an unlikely source - a displaced Punjabi who grew up as a Muslim in Pakistan. This one is true believer, not a radical. What I have so far learned is that it is the rabble who adopt the laws of Islam without thoughtful consideration that can become radicalized. Unlike Christians with their dogmatic belief structure, the Koran advocates no one as the ultimate authority but instead warns to keep authority within oneself. If the third eye is cultivated it will allow the true believer to recognize when the truth is spoken.


The radicals, like the Palestinians and Hamas and many others believe that Islam is the 'final religion'. Meaning that the followers of Islam will conquer the world and rid it of all unbelievers.
This radical group sees the opportunity in today's world to make allegiances with the Globalists and the Marxists to further their plans towards a one world Islamic state.

All the signs are there. The Palestinian sympathizers are rallying in our streets, disrupting our Christian ceremonies at this most holy time of the year - on purpose. Churches are being burned to the ground at a prodigious rate. Catholics are persecuted in their home towns. Bethlehem cancelled its Nativity Scene. Christians in Nigeria are being slaughtered. All in the name of the radical Islamic Jihad - Intifada.


I see all this leading to calls to prayers six times a day in a city or town near you. I can see it resulting in the imposition of Sharia Law. I can foresee violence against Christians in the Christian countries of the west.
Secularism is a threat to the existential nature of the human experience. After the dust settles, and many Christians and Muslims lay dead in the streets, the globalists will impose their one world religion - and it will not be Islamic or Christian at all.
Both sides played against the middle, again.

That is what I fear.

[Rizotto]

While Isreal is trying to grab lands in Palestine, Syria, and Lebannon, I would be a lot more worried about the "Greater Isreal" plan than about any notion of 'Islam taking the world over'. Even in Palestine, where Christians have conducted multiple crusades against Muslims over the centuries, it's a fact that now many Palestinians are Christians, and have lived in peace with their fellow Muslim Palestinians, and even Orthodox Jewish Palestinians. They've supported each other as Palestinians.

Here's just one example of this:

Palestinian Christian Pastor Slams Western Silence on Genocide in Gaza

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=F96OmajymIQ

[Rizotto]

I've highlighted portions in the article below that seem to really hit the nail.

https://www.vtforeignpolicy.com/2023...with-satanism/

Christian Zionism’s Alliance with Satanism
Once a system metaphysically and categorically rejects logic and reason and historical documentation, that system will eventually embrace Satanism, in one way or another.

By Jonas E. Alexis, VT Senior Editor

Former CIA officer Philip Giraldi made an interesting observation in 2014 that bears repeating. He wrote then,

“The connection between America’s wars in the Middle East—and its wars more generally—with the more fundamentalist forms of Christianity in the United States is striking. Opinion polls suggest that the more religiously conservative one is, the more one will support overseas wars or even what many might describe as war crimes.

“Fully 60 percent of self-described evangelicals supported torturing suspected terrorists in 2009, for example. That is somewhat puzzling, as Christianity is, if anything, a religion of peace that only reluctantly embraced a ‘just war’ concept that was deliberately and cautiously evolved to permit Christians—under very limited circumstances of imminent threat—to fight to defend themselves.

“To be sure, some Christian conservatives who might be described as Armageddonists regard America’s Asian wars as part and parcel of the precursor events that will lead to the Second Coming of Christ, which they eagerly look forward to.

“Also, a non-interventionist friend of mine who comes from a religiously conservative background explained to me how the contradiction partly derives from the fact that many evangelical Christians hardly relate to the New Testament at all.

“While they can recite scripture and verse coming from the Old Testament, they are frequently only marginally conversant with the numerous episodes in the New Testament that attest to Jesus’s extolling the virtues of peacemaking and loving one’s neighbor.

“If true, that means that many evangelicals are much more imbued with the values of an eye-for-an-eye or smiting Philistines than they are with the Sermon on the Mount.”

Giraldi should have read Will Durant’s account of Judaizing movements, in which he declared that whenever a party began judaizing, “the Old Testament overshadowed the New.” Giraldi also should have read Heinrich Graetz’s assessment on Judaizing movements. Graetz, the father of modern Jewish historiography, noted that

“Whenever a party in Christendom opposes itself to the ruling church, it assumes a tinge of the Old Testament, not to say Jewish spirit.” Later, Protestant scholars themselves implicitly admitted that this was the case. For example, Protestant historian Donald M. Lewis points out that

The evangelicals’ sense of Britishness was being redefined with Philo-Semitism and Christian Zionism being added as the new layers of British identity. Britain as ‘Protestant Israel’ was to protect and defend ‘Israel according to the flesh’ from its ancient persecuting enemy, Roman Catholicism.

“This novel emphasis upon evangelical connectedness to ‘God’s ancient people’ was thus an idea whose time had come in that it vindicated evangelical claims to be authentic ‘apostolic Christianity….both Philo-Semitism and Christian Zionism became key aspects of the identity construction of British evangelicalism by the 1830s.”[3]

We have argued in the past that Christian Zionism is another subversive movement that has nothing to do with the tenets of Christianity but has everything to do with Jewish revolutionary ideology. It was inevitable that Britain and America began to protect Israel, no matter what the moral and political cost. As Lewis would later recount,

“Britain as ‘Protestant Israel’ was to protect and defend ‘Israel according to the flesh’ from the ancient persecuting enemy, Roman Catholicism.”

[Bill Ryan]

To all Christians reading this: listen to what this Rabbi has to say about Jesus Christ.

(Or cover your ears, and flinch at reading the English subtitles.)

https://t.me/myLordBebo/17862

[Isserley]

Re above, one Swallow Does Not Make a Summer (or Spring).. that's one abnormal person, not worth of pointing out because it creates more division and hatred.

check out this chanel

https://youtube.com/@jewsforjesus?si=ANYQ4Lkl-PVniWjk

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Isserley (here)
Re above, one Swallow Does Not Make a Summer (or Spring).. that's one abnormal person, not worth of pointing out because it creates more division and hatred.

check out this channel

https://youtube.com/@jewsforjesus?si=ANYQ4Lkl-PVniWjk

Many thanks, I took a good look, and this short video below was interesting. The title of the video is: More Jews are for Jesus than ever.

"19% of American Jews believe in Jesus." (0:20) But only 19%??

I confess there's much here that I don't understand, and I may have much to learn about Judaism. I'd always thought that Jesus had been persecuted because he was "King of the Jews". But it seems that 80% of Jews ignore him, and and a few even revile him.

The Koran honors Jesus more than that.

As best as my understanding does permit: Judaism is primarily an Old Testament belief system, and they ignore the New Testament to a very large extent. See my earlier post #7, much earlier on this thread, about how Marcion was the first to point out that the Old Testament God and the New Testament God are really entirely different beings.

Here's a very interesting Wkipedia page:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_Jesus

Extracted: (these are exact quotes)

• Jews believe Jesus did not fulfill messianic prophecies that establish the criteria for the coming of the messiah.
• Judaism does not accept Jesus as a divine being, an intermediary between humans and God, a messiah, or holy.
• Belief in the Trinity is also held to be incompatible with Judaism.
• Historically, some Jewish writers and scholars have considered Jesus as the most damaging "false prophet".

A question for Ernie: Why do you feel that as a Christian you're obliged to support Israel? From what I understand, their faith is fundamentally opposed to and in denial of yours.

Your dislike and distrust of Islam and Islamic people, which you've expressed clearly, doesn't seem to me to explain your taking a pro-Israeli position — unless you feel that the Palestinians, so to speak, are "the greater of the two evils".

(But again, even Islamic Palestinians honor Jesus as a great prophet.)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VBG2bfCTs9c

[Matthew]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
To all Christians reading this: listen to what this Rabbi has to say about Jesus Christ.

(Or cover your ears, and flinch at reading the English subtitles.)

https://t.me/myLordBebo/17862

It's easy to see how the Bible prophesy will play out. Some are so hungry for a false Messiah right? They'll get the wrong one before seeking Yeshua by its own words. This is a testimony of God's love and patient for us; if He is this faithful and forgiving here then he will also be that faithful to you and forgiving of your sin. The true loving character of God is seriously misrepresented. God gave us freedom and asks for us to love and let hate go. It comes to us as a conviction of the heart, which drives our actions. As a Christian I'm thankful I'm not on the front line for God's movement the Jewish people are. But as we've been taught: rules and traditions, or a proud historical identity are not going to get anyone out of the traps and snares laid for us. To all Christians reading this: the only way out of the trap is to surrender to His worthiness and follow His voice.

[avid]

https://rss.com/podcasts/libertytactics/1255753/
Horrendous sacrificial global harvesting. Absolutely truthfully shocking. An absolutely truth read. Celebrities entrapped. Beyond vile!!!
All interlinked.
OMG, Hide and Seek hunting parties, little children. Beyond the pale, Top echelons, celebrities involved globally.

[avid]

Adrenochrome - a very precious thing atm, the vile folk will do anything to get it. https://rss.com/podcasts/libertytactics/1255753/

[Ernie Nemeth]

I don't see Jews rioting in the streets. I don't see Jews blocking traffic on highways, harassing Christmas shoppers, setting up Satanic displays as Nativity Scenes. I don't see Jews brainwashing our youth into wearing scarfs the enemy wears. I don't see an entire group of Jews so fixated on the next life that they commit suicide with bombs strapped to their chests.

I am okay with Jews. For the most part they fit in society and are part of our culture.

How do you even do a comparison? Muslims stay separate. They do not conform to our way of life. They have their own schools, mosques, food, stores, and businesses. They believe that theirs is the final religion that will conquer all the rest. Does that sound like a group that wants to fit in?

A group of Muslims at work refuse to ever pass on the niceties we are all familiar with. The polite thing to do is to say good morning when you see a fellow worker. This group never does - looking right through us as if we weren't even there. A few times I have called them on it and they quickly acknowledge me - as though they might be found out to be racist. If you speak their language, even if you are not Muslim, they will recognize you. But never in English, never to Canadians.
It is rude and racist. By the way, this group is a plumbing business strictly for Muslims - which is against Canadian rights and privileges. It is against the law to hire based on race or religion or foreign language but they get away with it I don't know how.

Canada is changing rapidly because of the horrible immigration policies of the Canadian Liberal Party and the infamous globalist, Pierre Elliot Trudeau, er Justine Pierre James Trudeau.

[xeon]

I think regardless of where you stand, we mustn't lose sight of the ultimate enemy of Humanity, which has already launched a full scale War against humanity in 2020 (although it has always been raging on long before that), and from all the looks of it, appears to be Communism married with Technology (so called 4th Industrial Revolution). I'm pretty sure if this world comes about, humans will be depopulated in a nightmarish world of plandemics and vaccines (The WHO has said enough - Decade of Pandemics).

And from all the looks of it, those minions of this evil are using China to be the hammer that brings down this control system right under your nose. Things like Digital ID, CBDC, Social Credit, 15 minute city prisons, and 24/7 surveillance (including controlling your mind). While the world is preoccupied with the imperialist war mongers USA, Israel, and the West, and evil Hillary, Obama, Bush, Gates, etc.

The Globalists are ALL in collusion with the CCP; for example, YouTube will delete all videos that raise serious questions against China. There is an anti China channel (China Uncensored) where the guy Chris Chappel has said in a matter of fact way that YouTube will demonetize any channel that I guess "crosses the line". But of course they have to allow some leeway, lest it arouses too much suspicion....

That's why all the videos showing people dropping dead during the initial Covid outbreak were all removed from YouTube when the plandemic went international (by design), having served it's initial purpose of fearmongering. If YouTube kept the videos on, people would start questioning why people in their countries were not dropping dead like in China. This was one of the strangest anomalies that I noticed back in 2020.....shortly after the virus spread out of China, the China videos were all taken down

There is a surprisingly honest interview with a high ranked CCP guy in YouTube that is probably the last copy left (which is really damning to China's image), but I don't think it's safe to share it here as YouTube will detect and then take down the video. It is probably overlooked due to very few views, but I have saved a copy of it. I fear if the video gets views/attention, YouTube will delete the video - so that's how bad it is.....[He basically extolls the virtues of their Social Credit System and "hopes" it gets used by Capitalist countries, not just in China].

I don't quite understand why millions would get so worked up over the Palestine issue to go on marches and protests, while oblivious to the HUGE elephant in the room - the implementation of global Communism, with the WEF taking care of the West, while China takes care of the East. Definitely some "mind control" going on whichever way you slice it.

Both WEF and China/Russia have stated Transhumanism is coming, the NWO is coming, robots are coming, and we will be governed by AI, with NO MORE FREE WILL and I suppose the AI also has a religion in the works that "actually works" (according to Yuval Noah Harari).

https://www.therobotreport.com/china...noids-by-2025/

Here is a clip where he explicitly states that the era of human free will is over. It's surprising that the most truthful videos get so few views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV0CtZga7qM

This seems to be the ultimate goal of the Satanic Globalists. Eliminating the human soul, and the whole concept of Free Will. Very Satanic in its motivation.

Regarding the CCP's attitude towards Muslims, Christians, and basically all religions, let's just say it hates them all, particularly Christianity. But Muslims are not spared either. They have destroyed mosques and churches and committed a very grave sin in the Bible - rewriting it.

Wait a minute, if I was a "hateful Jew" like the one shared in the video above by Bill, aren't Muslims and Christians my enemies? I would be rejoicing wouldn't I. Well thank god, the Communist Chinese hates them too.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-values.html

In recent times, they have stepped up their persecution of Christians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcZrKTiXqsk

There are many "rumors" of China doing mind control experimentation on Uyghurs, and all kinds of atrocities on them, but this is largely ignored by the world. Why is that so?

Even Muslims themselves ignore this genocide against their own brethen. I've asked ordinary Muslims about this and they don't really have an answer for me, but they get worked up over Palestine. You can ask many Chinese themselves about Falun Gong or Tibet and they will likewise give you the same kind of response (or non response more like it). If they are Pro China, they will condemn the Falun Gong as a CIA created cult.....

And yet, the Muslim world is firmly allied with China. Think about that.....

When Elon Musk and 1000 other scientists submitted an "open letter" to halt the development of AI for 6 months, I couldn't help but notice that NOBODY mentioned let alone thought of China. And I don't think any of those 1000 signatures were Chinese scientists. Remember, China is busy developing AI and Robotics. So what exactly were people hoping for if the Chinese do not participate in this temporary "moratorium"? Of course it wouldn't work!

Just what kind of a world is rapidly taking shape right in front of us today?

[Ravenlocke]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
I don't see Jews rioting in the streets. I don't see Jews blocking traffic on highways, harassing Christmas shoppers, setting up Satanic displays as Nativity Scenes. I don't see Jews brainwashing our youth into wearing scarfs the enemy wears. I don't see an entire group of Jews so fixated on the next life that they commit suicide with bombs strapped to their chests.

I am okay with Jews. For the most part they fit in society and are part of our culture.

How do you even do a comparison? Muslims stay separate. They do not conform to our way of life. They have their own schools, mosques, food, stores, and businesses. They believe that theirs is the final religion that will conquer all the rest. Does that sound like a group that wants to fit in?

A group of Muslims at work refuse to ever pass on the niceties we are all familiar with. The polite thing to do is to say good morning when you see a fellow worker. This group never does - looking right through us as if we weren't even there. A few times I have called them on it and they quickly acknowledge me - as though they might be found out to be racist. If you speak their language, even if you are not Muslim, they will recognize you. But never in English, never to Canadians.
It is rude and racist. By the way, this group is a plumbing business strictly for Muslims - which is against Canadian rights and privileges. It is against the law to hire based on race or religion or foreign language but they get away with it I don't know how.

Canada is changing rapidly because of the horrible immigration policies of the Canadian Liberal Party and the infamous globalist, Pierre Elliot Trudeau, er Justine Pierre James Trudeau.

There’s a difference between Muslims and Palestinians. Muslims encompass all those that adhere to the Islamic religion and can be found all around the world. Palestinians are mostly found in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and though most follow the religion of Islam there are also those that follow the Christian and or Catholic religion.

In Canada according to Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Canada)

“National and ethnic origins
edit
According to the 2011 National Household Survey, there were 424,925 Muslims living in the Greater Toronto Area equalling 7.7% of the total metropolitan population, of which the Muslim community consists of persons of Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian, Iranian, African, Egyptian/Arab, Caucasian, Southeast Asian, and Latin descent.[27] Greater Montreal's Muslim community was 221,040[28] in 2011 or nearly 6% of the total metropolitan population which includes a highly diverse Muslim population from Western/Southern Europe, Caribbean, North Africa, the Middle East, and the Indian subcontinent. Canada's national capital Ottawa hosts many Lebanese, South Asian and Somali Muslims, where the Muslim community numbered approximately 65,880 or 5.5% in 2011.[29] In addition to Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal, nearly every major Canadian metropolitan area has a Muslim community, including Vancouver (73,215), where more than a third are of Iranian descent, Calgary (58,310), Edmonton (46,125), Windsor (15,575), Winnipeg (11,265), and Halifax (7,540). In recent years, there has been rapid population growth in Calgary and Edmonton because of the booming economy.[30]”


And according to Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cana...tine_relations ) there are about approximately 30,000 Palestinians living in Canada.

The distinction between Muslims and Palestinians especially referring to Canada is important here since the topic here is concerning Palestinians and mostly the Palestinians refugees living in Gaza and West Bank.

You are lumping all Muslims as Palestinians and referring to all Muslims in Canada as being Palestinian when that is not the case.

Also Muslims worship in Mosques and Jews worship in Synagogues, Christians and Catholics in Christian and Catholic Churches.

Your above description of your experience with Muslims is not about Palestinians behaving “anti social” but about Canadian foreigners that have immigrated from different parts of the world and happen to be Muslim.

Muslims having their own markets as you put it, has to do with international food that cannot be found in regular supermarkets and also because some foods particularly meats have to be “halal” just like Jews prefer “kosher” meats, etc.
International grocery stores can be found everywhere and of many different nationalities.
In Canada and the states depending whereabouts you live you can find international grocery stores that carry foods pertaining to the immigrants living in those areas such as Korean, Chinese, Mexican, Italian,Indian etc.

As to Muslims not Palestinians attending their own schools, this article sheds some light on this point,

https://csrs.nd.edu/evaluations/cana...-and-identity/

As to the “riots” you mention above, you didn’t really describe who is exactly rioting or if these so called “riots” were people demonstrating in support of the Palestinians being genocided in Gaza now.


As to your comment about Muslims staying separate and do not conform to “our way of life”, again you are lumping all Muslims, who aren’t even Palestinians, the Muslims living in Canada are immigrants from different parts of the world including, Lebanese, Bosnians, Albanians, Pakistanis, Yemeni, Somali, etc, most of these came to Canada to get away from the civil wars in their countries in search of a better life.

Also the phrase “our way of life” sounds discriminatory, biased, judgmental, sounds like what colonialism tried to do to the native Americans? Immigrants from around the world have their own cultures and traditions, are they to give those up because they no longer live in their own country if those traditions don’t break any law?

And your complaint of the Muslims you say you interact with at work that you say are unfriendly and speak their language not English, that isn’t just Muslims that do that, foreign immigrants that can’t speak English fluently, prefer to speak in their own language among themselves. When I lived in Toronto, Italians spoke Italian, Poles spoke Polish, Hungarians, Portuguese, Asians, etc they all had their neighborhoods and spoke in their language at work, or on the bus etc and only spoke a little English when spoken to in English. Also speaking among themselves in their language gave them privacy so outsiders were not able to understand what they spoke about.

In conclusion your explanation of why you do not support Palestinians is really not about Palestinians but Muslims in general.


And by the way,
“I am okay with Jews. For the most part they fit in society and are part of our culture.”,

In Toronto they the Jews owned most of the sweat shops years ago and treated the workers atrociously as well as underpaying them. I know this from relatives that had to work in these factories to supplement the family income to make ends meet. Suffice to say even the dirty bathroom stalls had no doors for privacy and workers were watched like hawks and had to get permission to use the bathroom and then followed and timed. In sewing factories and jewelry factories they were only paid by piece work and treated real shabby.

[Rizotto]

I would just like to add that the source of conflicts world wide is the globalist cabal. They'll use anything to divide us all, as that fits their ultimate depopulation goal. Religious division is their most useful tool, as this can be used to hype up controversies on 'faith issues' that cannot ever be related to facts. For those with evil intents to manipulate whole populations, it's easy to make up 'faith' issues. In reality, all of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) have at times practised widespread conquests of lands and genocide. This has to stop. That is one reason I will never identify with a specific religion.

How about we just look at all of these religions with greater perspective, and choose only the parts that will uplift and unite us, and help us all to weather the great storm that's being brewed against us by some of the worst anti-human entities that are currently wielding much power on the earth.

As for Canada specifically, we have a huge problem with mass immigration that has caused severe housing crisis all over the country. We have homeless people here dying of cold in the snow. And overwhelmed health care system. That's one more thing DELIBERATELY planned by the globalist cabal, and implemented by their puppet Turdeau.

For example, Bibi Netanyahu has already decided that he'll shipped Palestinians en masse to Canada (those that survive his indiscriminate bombing). Bibi is just another tool of the globalists.

Anyway, the Palestinians would really prefer to stay on their own land, obviously. People of good will should support them for this.

[Rizotto]

Isreali military deliberately killing civilians in Christian churches in Gaza, carpet bombing christian quarters, etc.

I'm only pointing out that the Isreali genocide has targeted Christian arabs in Palestine just as much as Muslims. But I do not do this to divide between any religion or ethnicity. Let's keep in mind that it is far too easy to drive people against each other, even to one's own detriment. Let's call on higher awareness to prevail.

"They're targeting Christianity's holiest sites on purpose" | Redacted News

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=j8hv3LVwzTk

[grapevine]

@ Ernie Nemeth

I too have Jewish friends, Ernie, all of whom are warm. kind-hearted people and would give you the shirts off their backs.  I also have the most fantastic Muslim neighbours and, hand on heart, you couldn't meet a more loving family; I consider myself very fortunate.  Having said that, I wouldn't like restrictive Sharia law in the UK..  Does that make me a hypocrite?  I hope not, but feel that generalising on race and religion en masse is irrelevant.

What is going on in Gaza and West Bank right now is atrocious, there's no denying it surely?  Regardless of Israel having the right to defend itself, which of course it does, does not give it the right to murder defenceless, innocent civilians, most of them women and children.   

War changes people, Ernie; it ruins everybody's lives and they're never the same afterwards.  Many veterans in WW2 never spoke of the unspeakable horrors they witnessed; some were shell-shocked and never recovered:  Some deserted and were shot.  They never had social media and civilians never saw what went on.  The same happened in Vietnam; terrible things happened (like Mei Lai) and many Vietnam vets suffer from mental health disorders today still.  And remember how US and UK soldiers reportedly behaved to their prisoners in Iraq.  As of May 2023 (according to Wiki) there were still 30 prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. 
 
What makes this war different is that we're all now witnessing these atrocities in real time, and it's very distressing to see the horror - from both sides, but especially the burned, maimed and lifeless little bodies being pulled from the rubble by distraught parents.  Many of us here on the forum are suffering from PTSD, albeit minor in comparison with the victims.  And the people orchestrating it - on both sides - are well back from the fighting as usual.

As a species we haven't moved on at all, and it's terrifying.

[Rizotto]

Well said Miller, I agree with most of what you say. (removed) In reality, the Isrealis did 1,000 times worse than Hamas ever did before October 7, and 10,000 worse than Hamas since October 7.

We often hear the claim that 'Isreal has the right to defend itself', but what about Palestinians, do they not have the right to defend themselves when settlers steal their land and kill them, and when they get blockaded on a narrow strip of land with no way out?

Looks like Hamas has been the strongest defender of Palestinians. On October 7 it appears that Hamas' main goal was to capture as many Isreali hostages as possible to exchange for the thousands of Palestinians kidnapped by Isreali military and imprisoned without charges FOR YEARS, including women and children, often abused and tortured while in prison. What else could Palestinians do to free their people? Until October 7, the world simply ignored them.

I'll say this again, I have Jewish friends and know many Jewish people speaking out against the crimes committed by Isreal. But now we're seeing what gruesome atrocities Isrealis are capable of. It has reached the point of widespread madness, quite frankly. When a society like Isreal has lived the supremacist lie for decades, it weakens them, and there comes a time when the cracks are so deep and interconnected that it will soon shatter. Sadly, I hope that happens before many more Palestinians get slaughtered.

[grapevine]

Posted by Rizotto (here)
Well said Miller, I agree with most of what you say. Except for the part that "both sides" are equally guilty.

I didn't say that, Rizotto.

[Rizotto]

Posted by Miller (here)

Posted by Rizotto (here)
Well said Miller, I agree with most of what you say. Except for the part that "both sides" are equally guilty.

I didn't say that, Rizotto.

My apologies Miller, you are correct. I just removed that incorrect sentence from my post.

I still feel strongly there's a need to discuss what options were available to Palestinians to defend themselves, given the fact that for decades Isreal has ignored countless UN resolutions trying to solve this conflict, and that Isreal has blockaded for decades, stealing more Palestiniand lands and killing them if they resist. That is the big question. What can Palestinian do to put an end to the hell they've been through since 1948. Seems like the October 7 Hamas operation is the only thing that moved the issue into international spolight. (This thread is probably not the best place to discuss this.)