The cost of solar power

[Bubu]

Solar power is free but certainly not the batteries which last for a number of years only.
Does anyone has experience and computation as to the cost of power per KWhr in the context of battery cost? ie cost of battery divided by the total power it delivered in its entire lifetime.

As size does not matter in off grid home installation will homemade batteries make a big difference?

http://www.survival-manual.com/homemade-battery.php

http://www.fuellesspower.com/12_Homade_battery.htm

[wolf_rt]

no idea on total cost ect.... but you can recondition old car batteries that have a bit of life left and use them since space isn't an issue, i'm sure they would be superior to 'homemade' batteries.

The 'cost' here is more time spent monitoring your packs.

The homemade batteries you posted would be next to useless i'm afraid, not enough surface area...

[Bubu]

I think you have a very good point. So what we need to do is to stock some spare plates.

[Strat]

Posted by wolf_rt (here)
no idea on total cost ect.... but you can recondition old car batteries that have a bit of life left and use them since space isn't an issue, i'm sure they would be superior to 'homemade' batteries.

People do this all the time (especially with marine batteries) but DO NOT do this. Car batteries are not meant to fully charge and discharge. They will literally explode sending shrapnel and battery acid. Batteries do this anyway, it's kind of a calculated risk so a lot of people build a box to contain said explosion. From what I've read, 6v golf cart batteries work best because of their thick plates they're designed for the constant discharge/charge.

I mean, if it's already hit the fan and there's nothing else at hand then yeah, grab the car battery. But never connect it like "it's no big deal" because that's the day you lose your vision.

There are auto shops across the US that are completely oblivious to this fact and they hook up sound systems. It's nuts. One of my friends' batteries exploded because the shop he went to put the wrong fuse in his car; it didn't blow so the battery did. He just went to his car, turned the key and bam!

EDIT: As a random note, solar power IS NOT free energy. This is a giant misconception in the free energy world. The technology has been slow to progress, the cells are expensive and they wear out over the years.

[Lifebringer]

Took it up in school and yes, the batteries they use now cost and last for a couple years, however the nickel and lithium can last longer but the thing is the big batteries have to be made here to save and that is the manufacturing boost WE need. JOBS to keep check on the technology and keep it humming like a top.
Just 3 panels on your home can save up to 35% on your electric bill per month and will pay for itself within 10 years. How long do homeowners live in their homes 20 50 years? Well after the first ten your electricity will be virtually free, if you do the whole two sides of the roof and have the sides you want heat on facing the south west for maximum at sunset. Covering the whole roof, or installing a 20 panel set with lines underground leading to the conversion and auto shut off, if power from grid goes out or batteries are charged to the max. you can shut off the power of the panels by tilt, and use the battery until the lines are back up. If the power goes off on the grid, it's wise to just use the battery storage, or you'll fry a lineman. The best is electromagnetic power generation which once started, will never stop until you shut it off. They can be used to power homes in cul de sacs. Ca't wait for that, but me, I'll go free solar and wind anytime. Most of the wide propeller windmills are for the highway areas of wind(off highway high windy areas like OK. But the cylinders turned up/down, can catch wind and turn silently with just a light whiring sound if you put graphite in the moving parts or joints.

A real thinking homeowner will have a selfsustaining home to leave for their children, which is better than cash they'll have to spend on the same utility companies that ream US and the world. WE need to get them and US off the Fossil Fuel enslavement of prices gone wild on a finite source. They'll only keep going up, up, up, and so will the deposits to secure a account after "a credit check."

FREE THE PEOPLE WITH WHAT GOD GAVE US AND LET'S THINK SMARTER THIS MILLENIUM.

[Lifebringer]

The ones the ptw allowed in US to ream us on outdated slower technology to drain our last dollars, before upgrades syndrome hits the commercials. Listen you have to know, IF NASA HAS IT FOR ALL THOSE SPACE PROBES/EYES, we have it.

Don't believe the hype. Americans deserve this technology now, and it's already available. Look how long they've been launched and the subzero temps in space, and you know how far we've come. They want' to get paid for the R&R to develop it, they don't want to take any corporate losses. They counted it in the future's ream.

Tough for them, because all the how to's will eventurally have everyone with full informational pieces to the pieces they've shown us and will bring the best of the best that will last for centuries, not just 100 years. Sensors that detect weaknesses for repair, before breakdown.
Ever see Jordi, and Data on Star Trek, tracking weaknesses? Well, we have the data for it and preventative sensors to do it. Look at the cars that can detect, park and arrive at destinations, breathalize, and shut off in decoys for theft. Just saying until the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is "in our media" don't believe the hype. I've seen it, Canada's has whole cities that are self reliant on each buildings waste and use condensation filtration water for flushing toilets, and captured rainfall drains that are naturally filtered and maintenance of changing filters brings jobs. It's totally self Sustaining. It's in Canada in Victoria. I don't have my books right now, but I can give you some hard facts about capitalism. Just look up Tesla, and that will tell you how ruthlessly greedy and controlling they can become on new ideas/toys they want to own forever.

[Anchor]

Cost of solar power depends on lots of things. First off grid, or grid connected?

Off grid:

1) Panels, mounting hardware
2) Charge controllers
3) Batteries
4) Inverter (to provide AC power for your house)
5) Generator for when the sun isnt shining and the batteries need charging

Grid connected

1) Panels
2) Grid tied inverter

I left out details, costs of cabling, fuses, switches, metering, inspections for code compliance etc.

Here is an interesting graph I saw which shows one of the costs of solar power over time from 1977-2013



(It isn't clear to me if this is inflation adjusted)

Source (THe Economist): http://www.economist.com/news/215664...-sunny-uplands

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Posted by nature (here)
Solar power is free but certainly not the batteries which last for a number of years only.
Does anyone has experience and computation as to the cost of power per KWhr in the context of battery cost? ie cost of battery divided by the total power it delivered in its entire lifetime.

Now that is an interesting question. I've put together 2 solar systems, one each for my current and previous home, but never looked at the cost per unit of energy. To make things easy, let's look at only battery cost and the energy delivered over the battery lifespan.

To make things simple, let's assume that the battery is fully charged each day, and discharged 50% each day.

Cost of one 6 volt Trojan T105 deep cycle golf cart battery is $153.

Energy stored in one Trojan T105 battery is 6 volts multiplied by 220 amp hours, or 1320 watt hours, or 1.32 kwh.

Energy consumed from the one battery is limited to 50% of capacity, or 0.66 kwh, to preserve battery lifespan.

The battery lifespan is 7 years for a well maintained battery, or 2,548 discharges of 0.66 kwh for a total of 1,682 kwh.

Therefore, the cost per kwh is cost of the battery divided by kwh ($153/1682 kwh), or $0.09/kwh.

Can't find my electric bill at the moment, but that is in the ball park of what I pay for commercial power.

The most important reason I have solar electric power available is because I want power when the grid goes down.

Many others have solar electric power because it is not available at their location. Sometimes it is very costly to run power lines to remotely located homes.

[Lazlo]

Nice work Ron.

$0.09 is about the cost of grid power in many locations. Solar works, heck it is what I do for a living....

But, calculations on payback are not as straightforward as they seem. No one ever mentions the cost of inverter replacement. Count on around $1,500 to $4,500 every ten years for replacement (depends on the size of your system).

Also, make sure there is NO shading of your modules. Even a small amount of shading like that from a chimney or septic vent can make your payback time grow from 10-20 years.

And make absolutely sure you know what you are doing when installing PV. DC current is no joke. Fires can and do happen.

Make sure your battery area is well ventilated, hydrogen explosions are also possible.

Now that the scary stuff is out of the way, Happy Sun Farming to you!

[Billy]

I stay in a caravan and I went to the scrap yard and bought my Batteries for my solar panels £5 each. My main cost was the solar panels. The batteries lasted for 2yrs. Acid batteries do not have a long life span when discharging and recharging. Leisure Batteries are better and now the new Gel Batteries i would say is the way foreword for solar energy.

If you can buy batteries from the scrap yards that have been used for electric fork lifts or milk floats etc.

Running the Gel batteries low and recharging does not effect their performance. They are a sealed unit therefore safer.

I will wait until they are available in the scrap yards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gel_battery#Gel_battery

[meat suit]

there is some milage in using what you generate directly. for example you can heat water via immersion heater in an insulated hot water tank during the day with your panels,,, store this heat and use for hot water or heating at night...

[Anchor]

Posted by billyji (here)
Gel Batteries i would say is the way foreword for solar energy.

Actually I think that LiFePO4 (LFP for short) will be the way forward. 75% discharge allowed (instead of 20% for most long lived remote power system batteries), flat discharge curve, can sustain a discharge at 10C and can be recharged at high currents with 90+% efficiency on charge/recharge - and with a 10 year or 3000 cycle lifespan.

The problem is that there are only few commercial solutions and the batteries they need complex management systems to maintain the cells properly - the cells are 3.2v - 3.6v.

The recent advances in this area have come from Electronic Vehicles.

In the coming months I am going to put some in my standalone office system as an experiment.

[Bubu]

"Therefore, the cost per kwh is cost of the battery divided by kwh ($153/1682 kwh), or $0.09/kwh.

Can't find my electric bill at the moment, but that is in the ball park of what I pay for commercial power".


Hi Ron,

Confirmed my rough estimate. But if solar panel is grid connected you can do away with batteries, including the maintenance, that would translate to real savings. Just a reminder have an auto cut off in case grid power goes down.

Hi Lifebringer,

"The best is electromagnetic power generation which once started, will never stop until you shut it off."

I agree MEG is the way to go. I believe it is what's in Tesla's pierce arrow black box. There are many free energy device out there but as long as the cabal is there they will never ever allow it because free energy means free humanity. So first is for us to have control of our lives and kick this bastards out for as long as they are there they will be a threat to our freedom.

Let me tell you an experience. I once met a ignorant electronic technician, and I mean it, Because he is dumb all he can think of free energy is to have a battery power a 12 volts DC inverter to 220V ac then on the ac outlet he connected the house loads and a battery charger that charge back the battery. What do you think engineers will say of this? According to him he made around 9 units of this; use by families in the sugar cane plantation another thing that he told me is that the battery runs very hot that it has to be top with water every 3 hours of use. Now back then I simply dismiss him as he is. Around two years later I met another electronic technician this one is better he teaches electronics servicing but still ignorant if you base upon his understanding of electricity but this guy has some common sense. He told me that he has a free energy device at home that powers his computer and when PC is not in use he plug the Ref. As related by him. the device use a 60 amp alternator which is driven by a 12 v dc motor the one which is use to power the squirrel cage evaporator fan of car air conditioner around 65w. The alternator then powers a 1000w inverter which then powers the PC and just as the first dumb he plug a battery charger that charge back the battery. The guy is a no nonsense and honest as to my perception. I related to him what the first ignorant guy told me two years ago and he said " Yes that's the first one I tried but the battery runs very hot. So after some convincing he agreed to take me to his house to see the device. At the house I was disappointed to see that it is boxed with plywood but then there are small holes to allow for cooling and I was able to peep in. It is running at the time powering a ref. According to him when his bills suddenly goes down the power company came snooping and ask him if they can inspect the house for some jumper connections. He told them that he is about to leave for a meeting and that they can comeback some other day. That was when he boxed the device. Some more info: The dc motor has a 4 inch pulley coupled by a belt to a 16 inch pulley that drives the alternator or a 1 to 4 ratio speed reducer. Puzzled by what I have witness I decided to conduct an experiment to understand ones and for all the nature of electricity. With less that $3 I bought some magnetic wire and electronics component. Conclusion. They do not understand what\s happening inside the device but the device is harvesting free electricity. Although not so free at all because the lead acid battery last only more than a year

[norman]

India: The world's largest floating solar farm is destroyed by a bout of bad weather.


https://x.com/wideawake_media/status...07228801405200