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Thread: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Having said all that, I've watched the 20 min video above 5 or more time now and I think i can see signs that the video maker has done a bit of fakery of his own in it.
    Yes, I watched the first few minutes then stopped. Clear fakery is all over the place. The side-by-side at 2.01 for example. These are two completely different pieces of footage. The one on the left is the feed from Chopper 4 on the NBC broadcast; on the right, FOX, from a static shot on the Empire State Building. And the plane has been digitally removed from the NBC shot, as it has in many other sequences.

    As I've illustrated in several other 9/11 threads, matching a CGI composite and inserting it into a dynamic, moving scene involves a huge amount of technical complexity even today; it requires multiple shots and passes and substantial post-processing to achieve. If you know anything about how CGI works (and I do), it is unconditionally impossible to pull off in a LIVE broadcast, x50 as well (that's how many cameras recorded the second strike), from all those different angles. Actually that's impossible to do today, in 2024, to say nothing of 2001. It's the equivalent of broadcasting, live, a hand-drawn animated scene (no artist can draw that fast!). The 'no planes' theory is absurd: it holds as much water as a bucket of dry sand. And you can take that to the bank!
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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Grenfell Tower (24 storeys) burned intensely for 60 hours yet did not collapse.

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    There's actually a fair amount of video in this directory. One or two 'classics' like 'September Clues' aren't there as although I do have them I didn't find the content especially helpful. Providing this can be accessed of course the directory is here
    Any chance you could add September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor Tintin? It is still, in my opinion, the GOAT of all 9/11 documentaries. Covers just about every single angle of the whole filthy mess, inside and out. Absolute fire, and compulsory viewing for anyone interested in the events of that day. And the most effective red pill for sceptics.
    Probably the best five hours you'll ever spend on the subject of 9/11

    Looks like the original upload has been taken down, but a copy exists here:
    4hr 52min
    September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor
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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    There's actually a fair amount of video in this directory. One or two 'classics' like 'September Clues' aren't there as although I do have them I didn't find the content especially helpful. Providing this can be accessed of course the directory is here
    Any chance you could add September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor Tintin? It is still, in my opinion, the GOAT of all 9/11 documentaries. Covers just about every single angle of the whole filthy mess, inside and out. Absolute fire, and compulsory viewing for anyone interested in the events of that day. And the most effective red pill for sceptics.
    Probably the best five hours you'll ever spend on the subject of 9/11

    Looks like the original upload has been taken down, but a copy exists here:
    4hr 52min
    September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor
    Actually, yes, why not And I think I have seen that too - pretty certain of that.

    I'll need to amend my indexing, but that said there are one or two other little interesting pieces I have found in the last year or so, so a geeky librarian piece of work to do there; no biggie.

    I should also include Daniel Liszt's interview with Jim Marrs there too actually.

    Mazzucco now downloaded, and I'll move it over pretty soon today
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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Thanks

    It's time they updated that doc to be honest, or re-released it at 1080p. Nonetheless, it's still an excellent addition to the Library!
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Thanks

    It's time they updated that doc to be honest, or re-released it at 1080p. Nonetheless, it's still an excellent addition to the Library!
    ...and now residing there:

    September 11: The New Pearl Harbor and the link is here: https://avalonlibrary.net/911/Septem...%282013%29.mp4
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)

    snip ....

    As I've illustrated in several other 9/11 threads, matching a CGI composite and inserting it into a dynamic, moving scene involves a huge amount of technical complexity even today; it requires multiple shots and passes and substantial post-processing to achieve. If you know anything about how CGI works (and I do), it is unconditionally impossible to pull off in a LIVE broadcast, x50 as well (that's how many cameras recorded the second strike), from all those different angles. Actually that's impossible to do today, in 2024, to say nothing of 2001. It's the equivalent of broadcasting, live, a hand-drawn animated scene (no artist can draw that fast!). The 'no planes' theory is absurd: it holds as much water as a bucket of dry sand. And you can take that to the bank!
    But they did say back in January of 2000 that they could do it and had!



    The link for that is gone but it is still on Archive Org here:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20080420...en-728236.html

    The full text of the article is this:

    Quote When TV brings you the news as it didn't happen

    Broadcasters are using virtual imaging technology to alter live broadcasts - and not even the news is safe from tampering

    Monday, 24 January 2000

    Viewers tuning into American broadcaster CBS's recent news coverage of the millennium celebrations in New York witnessed a televisual sleight of hand which enabled CBS to alter the reality of what they saw. Using "virtual imaging" technology, the broadcaster seamlessly adjusted live video images to include an apparently real promotion for itself in Times Square. The move has sparked debate about the ethics of using advances in broadcast technology to alter reality without telling viewers that what they are seeing isn't really there.

    While it's little surprise that advances in TV technology enable broadcasters to better manipulate existing images and create new ones, what is surprising is that this was done during a live broadcast and in a news programme. The CBS evening news coverage involved replacing the logo of rival network NBC with the CBS logo on a large video screen in Times Square. NBC was "outraged" by the use of the technology, and even CBS's evening news presenter, Dan Rather, admitted it was a "mistake".

    The technology to do this comes from the defence industry where, following the end of the Cold War, a number of companies have developed new ways of commercially exploiting their military navigation and tracking expertise.

    The system CBS used was developed by a United States company called Princeton Video Images (PVI). Other players in this field include Symah Vision - part of French defence to media group Lagadere; Israel-based Orad Hi Tech Systems, and SciDex, another Israeli firm with offices in Europe and the US. Each system, while similar, has its differences. None of the companies will publicly discuss how their's works. But the principle is common: each alters the live video image in the split second before it is broadcast.

    "The prime use of our system is to insert promotional images into live coverage, or as a post-production application for pre-recorded (TV) shows - for example, to insert branded goods into the action that weren't really there, for product placement," Denny Wilkinson, PVI's chief executive officer, explains. "Advertising, however, has by far and away the biggest potential for this. It's where the money is."

    The use of this technology is already becoming familiar in sports coverage. A number of international sports organisers have recognised the potential to generate more advertising revenue by - in effect - re-selling the same perimeter advertising billboards at their stadia. Through virtual imaging, different advertisers' brands can be seen in different countries that take the live broadcast feed.

    A number of European broadcasters including Sky TV have already run "virtual advertising" trials. Mexican broadcasters, meanwhile, have fully embraced virtual imaging systems. And different sports - notably Formula 1 - now acknowledge the potential to deal with restrictions on tobacco advertising in certain countries by replacing cigarette branding in some territories with other images.

    The use of this technology for editorial purposes however is more contentious. Already, other media owners - notably newspapers - have had to deal with concerns about digitally manipulating photographic images used in news pages. The Mirror's doctoring of photographs of the Princess of Wales and Dodi Fayed holidaying together was perhaps the highest profile example.

    Now concern is being voiced over TV viewers believing they can see something which is not actually there. Which is why it is hard to find anyone in UK broadcasting ready to admit that they - like CBS - are considering the potential of this technology beyond advertising. Sky, however, sees the technology's use as a way of enhancing "the look" of its sports coverage. "We use the ORAD system for a combination of editorial and promotional use," explains Phil Madge, Sky TV studio graphics supervisor "We are using it now to build virtual screens which hang down from the roof of various football stadia to highlight upcoming events, pre-recorded footage and Sky Sports promotions."

    Sky purchased the system at the start of the current football season, although it had run a number of trials previously, Madge adds. It has been used less for virtual advertising due to a combination of Independent Television Commission restriction and Football Association concerns. However, it was also used by Sky News to create a virtual studio for the channel's millennium coverage.

    "There is great potential to use virtual imaging in other ways but it remains a tool whose biggest advantage is for live broadcasting," Madge says. "There are obvious advantages in virtual studios as you don't need a physical set, just a blue screen against which the presenter is shot and a three-D computer model. You can change it over very quickly - there's no need to shift scenery. The downside is it can look quite computer `graphicsy', and a bit naff."

    CBS's problems arise from the fact that its use of the PVI system went one step further than "enhancing" the look of its presentation: it tampered with the reality of an actual event it was depicting in a news show, raising the spectre of TV news reporters reporting "live" from around the world when they're actually far closer to home. The broadcaster - which has also used virtual imaging to modify the New York cityscape - defended itself by insisting: "CBS News' internal standards prohibit digital manipulation or other faking of news footage."

    However, a CBS spokeswoman admitted that virtual insertion technology is yet to be covered by the broadcaster's guidelines. But Dan Rather, for one, thinks it should be. "At the very least we should have pointed out to viewers we were doing it,'' he told the New York Times. "I did not grasp the possible ethical implications of this and that was wrong on my part.''

    CBS is not the only broadcaster to use this technology in news broadcasts. Rival ABC recently included a report on Congress by a reporter wearing an overcoat in front of what to viewers seemed to be the US Capitol. The entire report was taped in a studio.

    UK programme makers, however, doubt virtual imaging technology requires guidelines any different to the ones they already have relating to editorial balance, accuracy and fairness. "Any form of factual programme-making involves some form of editing of events. It's not hard to present the same situation in a number of different ways," one documentary maker explains. "But it is up to the integrity of the programme-maker to do so with integrity in a way that is both responsible and accurate. The same approach must apply to any production method."

    It is a view which seems to be shared by the ITC, whose guidelines relate to the use of virtual imaging by advertisers - none specifically relate to editorial use. "It is an issue that crosses a number of regulatory areas - it could be a matter of inaccuracy, or undue prominence, or fairness. If it arose, we would have to consider each case on its own merits," a spokeswoman says.

    Trouble is, for the time being at least, the onus is on the viewer to draw any example of tampering with reality to the attention of the regulator which then would investigate retrospectively. Assuming, that is, that they realise what they are seeing isn't real.
    So before the year 2000, live television could be altered in real time and additions/changes made.
    Normal..!

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Having said all that, I've watched the 20 min video above 5 or more time now and I think i can see signs that the video maker has done a bit of fakery of his own in it.
    Yes, I watched the first few minutes then stopped. Clear fakery is all over the place. The side-by-side at 2.01 for example. These are two completely different pieces of footage. The one on the left is the feed from Chopper 4 on the NBC broadcast; on the right, FOX, from a static shot on the Empire State Building. And the plane has been digitally removed from the NBC shot, as it has in many other sequences.

    As I've illustrated in several other 9/11 threads, matching a CGI composite and inserting it into a dynamic, moving scene involves a huge amount of technical complexity even today; it requires multiple shots and passes and substantial post-processing to achieve. If you know anything about how CGI works (and I do), it is unconditionally impossible to pull off in a LIVE broadcast, x50 as well (that's how many cameras recorded the second strike), from all those different angles. Actually that's impossible to do today, in 2024, to say nothing of 2001. It's the equivalent of broadcasting, live, a hand-drawn animated scene (no artist can draw that fast!). The 'no planes' theory is absurd: it holds as much water as a bucket of dry sand. And you can take that to the bank!


    I could be persuaded that the no planes verdict is insanity but for one very troublesome fact that just will not go away.

    It was completely impossible for the planes that hit the towers in New York to have sliced through the buildings as they claim they did.

    It's not completely impossible to believe the MSM fooled us, somehow.

    That's where I stand on it right now.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote When TV brings you the news as it didn't happen

    So before the year 2000, live television could be altered in real time and additions/changes made.
    ...and a related story that I'd caught about 10 years ago and saved that appeared in the New York Times, about 11 days before the Independent on Sunday story:

    Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/13/b...roadcasts.html

    CBS Is Divided Over the Use Of False Images In Broadcasts

    By BILL CARTER
    Published: January 13, 2000


    Text:
    Dan Rather, the CBS News anchor, called the decision to superimpose a digitally created CBS logo to block out an NBC-sponsored sign in Times Square during CBS's news coverage of New Year's Eve celebrations ''a mistake'' that he regrets.

    ''There is no excuse for it,'' Mr. Rather said in a telephone interview today. ''I did not grasp the possible ethical implications of this and that was wrong on my part.''
    While he questioned whether CBS should have acted at all to alter the reality of a scene in this way, he said, ''At the very least we should have pointed out to viewers that we were doing it.''

    The CBS decision to use a new form of technology that allows electronically created images to replace actual structures had stirred a debate inside CBS News and today -- at news conference attended by Andrew Heyward, the president of CBS News, and Leslie Moonves, the president of CBS Television -- it was clear the debate was not over.

    Mr. Heyward, responding to questions about an article on the topic in The New York Times on Wednesday, defended CBS's use of the technology, developed by a firm called Princeton Video Image. The network has regularly used it on its morning news program, ''The Early Show,'' to display a CBS promotion on everything from the back of horse carriages to a side of the General Motors building, where the program originates.

    Mr. Heyward said he believed the transmission of the digital images during the morning program was ''a whimsical and creative way to display our logo in various and unlikely places.'' The use during Mr. Rather's coverage in Times Square was, he said, ''a closer call,'' which was made based on his conviction that ''on New Year's Eve with confetti in Dan's hair, I saw this as an extension of our graphics, a change in this very festive, in effect, set.''

    He added that Mr. Rather had not been part of the ''internal discussion'' about using the technique and that ''reasonable people could disagree on whether this was an appropriate use of digital technology.''

    Mr. Moonves supported Mr. Heyward. ''Anytime there's an NBC logo up on our network we'll block it again,'' he said.

    But Mr. Rather, in the phone interview, was steadfast. ''This is a new tool, and we're responsible for how we use it,'' he said. ''I'm not satisfied with how we met our ethical responsibility to viewers.''

    He added, ''I'm troubled that this was done.''

    Mr. Heyward said there had been ''vigorous debate'' on the use of the technology inside CBS News.

    ''I'm certain we're not going to make blanket use of this technology,'' he said, but added that the network would definitely continue to use it on its morning news program.

    CBS recently poured more than $30 million into remaking that program, but it still lags badly behind in ratings. Mr. Heyward is also dealing with a ratings falloff for Mr. Rather's newscast.

    Neither of the other network morning news programs use the Princeton Video Image technology. Jeff Zucker, the executive producer of the ''Today'' program on NBC, said, ''We were offered the same technology and we passed because we didn't think it was appropriate.'' Eileen Murphy, a spokeswoman for ABC News said: ''It's been discussed at length. We wouldn't use it here.''

    Still, Mr. Heyward said that on ''The Early Show,'' the anchor Bryant Gumbel had on occasions noted on the air that the digital logo was being superimposed when he thought it was being done in a particularly creative spot.

    ''If somebody comes to New York and is surprised that it doesn't say 'The Early Show' in the middle of Fifth Avenue, I don't think we've committed a journalism sin,'' Mr. Heyward said. ''I don't want to apologize for being aggressive in exploiting this.''

    He said that he understood the argument against the use of the technology -- which is widely employed in sports and some entertainment shows -- on news programs. The danger is ''that it looks too real and therefore it's wrong or potentially wrong,'' he said. ''I certainly agree it's potentially subject to abuse.''

    He noted that advances in computer-generated techniques had made things like missiles hitting Baghdad and airplanes crashing look so real that it was incumbent on networks to underscore that these were not real images.

    ''We're not sitting here rubbing our hands, saying how can we use this again,'' Mr. Heyward said. ''We are not in the deception business, We're in the reality business; we're in the accuracy business. To the extent that this technology interferes with that core belief we're not going to do it. We will absolutely take seriously the use of this tool.''
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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by lake (here)
    So before the year 2000, live television could be altered in real time and additions/changes made.
    Not to this degree. A graphical overlay is a very very far cry from CGI planes on 9/11. One is a simple rotoscope effect, the other involves computer-generated 3D models, that are both moving, have textured surfaces, cast shadows, and specular lighting effects (reflections), are dynamic along all three axes, and, let's not forget, emit (in several clips) the roar of plane engines. These are two completely different technologies, sitting a million miles apart.

    If we were talking about one or two or three suspicious clips, broadcast from three separate positions on the ground, coordinated to depict the same moving object, travelling at the same speed, coming in from the same angle, at the same altitude, with identical matching flightpaths, to crash at the same time, at the same spot, then I say categorically NO, they cannot do that with computer-generated models, in a live broadcast in 2001. AT ALL.

    But we're not talking two or three clips, we're talking upwards of fifty to sixty.

    Click image for larger version

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    What's more, there's no evidence of CGI in these clips. The tools exist for image analysis, and plenty of them these days. Even today's most sophisticated 3D images cast a telltale digital footprint. Something from 23 years ago? There's no chance that's going undetected. Yet no sign or trace of manipulation has been found in any of the 9/11 footage.

    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    He noted that advances in computer-generated techniques had made things like missiles hitting Baghdad and airplanes crashing look so real that it was incumbent on networks to underscore that these were not real images.
    Is he talking about live broadcasts here, or in general, like special effects in a movie? If the former, I'd like to see examples of this and put them under the microscope.

    The only manipulation I'm aware of, and which is clearly in evidence, are the clips where the plane's been removed, which is incredibly easy to do. This I strongly purport is a counter-intelligence tactic, devised to promote a deliberately misleading narrative (they do it all the time).

    In addition to videos there are eye-witnesses. Hundreds and thousands on the ground, who stood and watched it all happen with their naked eyes. One attends this forum - thepainterdoug, from New Jersey. UA175 crossed over his head moments before it struck the south tower -- he saw it. And yes, many did not. That's due to where they were standing. Anyone on, say, the opposite side of the WTC (or otherwise surrounded by skyscrapers) would not have seen the approach.

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    It was completely impossible for the planes that hit the towers in New York to have sliced through the buildings as they claim they did.
    I don't disagree with that, yet they did. We saw it happen, so obviously it can't be impossible. In this post I present I think a reasonable argument to explain what (may have) transpired.

    In summary:
    The speed at which these planes were travelling (upwards of 450mph) is actually impossible at sea-level. Flying this fast in such dense air would tear the engines apart, and possibly rip the wings off. That's just a fact. Ergo, UA175 and AA11 aren't what they appear to be. Either they've been enhanced, with superior engines and reinforced airframes, or they're military-grade lookalikes. I believe, personally, this is the most likely scenario. For more on that theory see Bill Ryan's interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015
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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Quote Posted by lake (here)
    So before the year 2000, live television could be altered in real time and additions/changes made.
    If we were talking about one or two or three suspicious clips, broadcast from three separate positions on the ground, coordinated to depict the same moving object, travelling at the same speed, coming in from the same angle, at the same altitude, with identical matching flightpaths, to crash at the same time, at the same spot, then I say categorically NO, they cannot do that with computer-generated models, in a live broadcast in 2001. AT ALL.

    But we're not talking two or three clips, we're talking upwards of fifty to sixty.
    But we are not talking about 50-60 on the day!

    As far as I know there are only 5 live broadcasts of the 2nd plane coming in to hit (not actually hitting) on the day!

    The images we all saw (over and over) that day of the planes from the TV channels, never showed a plane actually impacting the WTC buildings. The ones replayed all day were of the second plane moving toward the South tower ....



    And only the single video of the first plane hitting which came out after (so was that created after .... as in the addition of a plane for a second)!



    Any other videos/images came later from 'street people' (who made them .... and then who got paid could be a question)?

    We also do not know what tech they actually had back then? But we know that they could (and had) changed "live" broadcasts!
    But I am certain that it was vastly greater than we think (and likely greater than we currently are allowed to know about)!

    Then you have "People" .... well folk will do all the mass formation stuff and the Asch Conformity study shows that humans will repeat what they consider incorrect just to fit in!
    So after being bombarded constantly via the media (that reminds me of the last 4 years) on the day and for weeks/months later should we be surprised that so many consider 'planes' did it all?



    Or maybe peoples memories are not so great, especially having been shocked by what happened (I think you said some such about the Mandala Effect but I may very well just be incorrect in my memory lol ).

    Most folk interviewed (who actually were real folk) did not mention a plane, just big explosions!

    For the record .... I still consider that 2 drones hit WTC 1 & 2 and that the Pentagon was hit by a missile (right in the monies) and Shanksville was a badly constructed bull**** site.
    Normal..!

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by lake (here)
    The images we all saw (over and over) that day of the planes from the TV channels, never showed a plane actually impacting the WTC buildings. The ones replayed all day were of the second plane moving toward the South tower ....
    Not true, I saw segments on the news that very day that showed the second plane (UA175) impacting the south tower. One was the street level clip shot by Evan Fairbanks. It was in fact the first piece of footage I saw that evening when I got in from work (so around lunchtime EST). It was shown on Sky News.



    Quote Posted by lake (here)
    And only the single video of the first plane hitting which came out after
    Other videos exist. One I've seen was from a camera facing the Hudson (that recorded boating traffic), taking a shot every ten seconds. When stitched together they create a jittery video of the first impact on the north tower and the resulting explosion. And there's this one below, by Pavel Hlava who, while fiddling with his video camera, captured the first impact occurring in the background.



    Quote Posted by lake (here)
    Any other videos/images came later from 'street people' (who made them .... and then who got paid could be a question)?
    That's a lot of people to round up, intimidate, and pay off. And not one has squealed in 23 years. Multi-faceted large-scale conspiracies of this nature, with so many complexities and moving parts cannot, and are not, propped up by members of the public, paid off or otherwise. That's far too much crowd-control to coordinate, with way too many liabilities. It's not how this works.

    At this point there's not much more to say. You either believe this, or you believe that, it's all fine with me.
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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    snip ....
    Not true, I saw segments on the news that very day that showed the second plane (UA175) impacting the south tower.
    But none of what you just posted is a "Live Broadcast" .... which is what we were chatting about Mark ....

    There is the fact that 'They' can and do change what they call a live event/broadcast (and have for atleast 25 years) .... Anything promoted AFTER that "Live" broadcast .... .... .... well may have been changed/altered/adapted the same as the "Live" may have been!

    I consider that drones were used .... but those did NOT bring down the towers.

    ALL which is "broadcast" these days is 90+% a lie .... Was it the same in 2001 and before????

    Na, I think it was still lies (propaganda/mis-information/ half truths) .... It is just so much worst now

    There was .... 5 .... FIVE .... actual "Live Broadcasts" (all potato quality) of a "Plane" coming towards the WTC on the 9th September 2001.

    All the rest of the videos ARE after!

    Edit to add ....

    You state that you viewed it on Sky News .... they got awards for it lol

    Quote the channel’s coverage of the September 11, 2001, terror attacks in the United States won a 2002 British Academy of Film and Television Arts (BAFTA) Award for news coverage.
    Last edited by lake; 7th May 2024 at 17:17.
    Normal..!

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Thanks so much for this ... I have only just watched Dr Judy Woods presentation of evidence and I thought I'd never have my brain challenged again on 911 but .... damn it she's right, but how can she be? ...Does-not-compute!-arrgghh <brain explodes> ... its nuts but its not nuts because of the evidence ... Really struggling. I don't know enough about physics to say but i know enough to see ...

    It is of course possible that initially Thermite (for precision beam breaks) could be used for the 'snuff theatre' presented to us all for mass shock value. But just a controlled demolition could have had catastrophic impact on the value of the real-estate, proximity to the Hudson and risk of cracking the 'bathtub', limitation of damage to anything other than WTC buildings (all of them!).
    tried looking for debunking evidence and apart from a rather pathetic straight edge analysis video, I cant find anything ... so its something ... unknown and a little bit ...erm ... terrifying!

    i am going to have to lie down and let my head stop spinning ... once seen, I can't un-see it

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by Neith (here)
    Thanks so much for this ... I have only just watched Dr Judy Woods presentation of evidence and I thought I'd never have my brain challenged again on 911 but .... damn it she's right, but how can she be? ...Does-not-compute!-arrgghh <brain explodes> ... its nuts but its not nuts because of the evidence ... Really struggling. I don't know enough about physics to say but i know enough to see ...

    It is of course possible that initially Thermite (for precision beam breaks) could be used for the 'snuff theatre' presented to us all for mass shock value. But just a controlled demolition could have had catastrophic impact on the value of the real-estate, proximity to the Hudson and risk of cracking the 'bathtub', limitation of damage to anything other than WTC buildings (all of them!).
    tried looking for debunking evidence and apart from a rather pathetic straight edge analysis video, I cant find anything ... so its something ... unknown and a little bit ...erm ... terrifying!

    i am going to have to lie down and let my head stop spinning ... once seen, I can't un-see it
    Thanks! Made me laugh — and a very warm welcome to the forum.

    The truth does matter. Very few people are talking about 9/11 these days. And when you look at the videos (for the first time, or the 20th time) — it seems self-evident, at least to me, that all is VERY VERY far from what it superficially seems and what we've all been urged to believe.

    (And how about the undamaged Pentagon lawn, the absence of any plane of any kind, and the tiny hole in the wall???? OMG. )

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Quote Posted by lake (here)
    The images we all saw (over and over) that day of the planes from the TV channels, never showed a plane actually impacting the WTC buildings. The ones replayed all day were of the second plane moving toward the South tower ....
    Not true, I saw segments on the news that very day that showed the second plane (UA175) impacting the south tower. One was the street level clip shot by Evan Fairbanks. It was in fact the first piece of footage I saw that evening when I got in from work (so around lunchtime EST). It was shown on Sky News.
    There is a video explaining in detail how the live feed could have had a composite layers added for the 2nd plane, the one we would all 'see' even with the technology of the day. It required helicopters holding as steadily as they could without panning or zooming (I believe one of the helicopter occupants has since been ... er ... suicided, the other aggressively wont talk to anyone(?))

    There are also some clips of very insistent emergency workers saying but 'there was no plane why do you keep saying so' other eye witnesses in the confusion could easily be led by a reporter into mentioning the plane please. Then of course you would have to have planted 'actors' in the crowds with the plane script to echo out.

    With a truly shocking and graphic and traumatic event like this, the mind is vulnerable as it tries to make sense of what is happening... if the story of a plane is jammed into us early on it is easy for a memory to imprint actually seeing an aeroplane into that memory. To make sense of what was happening.

    Plane or no plane the result is the same, its not an argument to get hung up on or we are doing their job for them. A horrific crime was committed and we were stunned enough to have some serious freedoms stolen before we could shake ourselves out of it.

    I cannot trust anything i see via a tv or device anymore, technology for fakery has got so much better. If something is going on, its the very first initial eyewitness or reactionary comments that need to be listened to because once the MSM have got their stories together and take control of the narrative.

    With utmost respect to you, i mean this with an understanding of how hard it is to change ones mind once its reached its consensus on events.
    Peace

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote hanks! Made me laugh — and a very warm welcome to the forum.

    The truth does matter. Very few people are talking about 9/11 these days. And when you look at the videos (for the first time, or the 20th time) — it seems self-evident, at least to me, that all is VERY VERY far from what it superficially seems and what we've all been urged to believe.

    (And how about the undamaged Pentagon lawn, the absence of any plane of any kind, and the tiny hole in the wall????
    Ha! yes, a little humour stops the crying and the gnashing of teeth and screaming into the wind with fury! Thank you for the welcome ... this is an amazing resource/community of minds and hearts you've built up . Really glad to be here.

    I agree - its an unprecedented event of shocking proportions and has set in motion so many tentacles ! Its hard to even know where to begin when I meet someone who still accepts the original narrative and seems oblivious to what impact this is having AND going to have moving forward. I can usually find a chink if i go really gently though
    Been re-watching some of the first documentaries and, seeing more than i did before. I had the same spinning head when I stumbled onto 'Loose Change' climbing over that wall of cognitive dissonance in my mind ... because to be frank it was obvious when pointed out and a an unacknowledged gut nagging doubt that something was wrong

    Ah yes!! As soon as I posted I thought oh i didn't mention the pentagon.

    Pentagon could only have been drone/missile, based on the air traffic controllers seeing the manoeuvre and assuming it was military due to .... er ... that plane couldn't do that because of ... physics! If they hadn't followed it on radar, id be tempted to say strategically placed explosives because the hole in the inner wall is so damn round. and there was 'something' in the two frames we were shown ... But could not have been a plane ... wreckage, bodies, engines, wing span etc.

    2nd tower could have been drone but I suspect compositing over a drone with an image of a plane would have been difficult; speed match, people might remember a drone or missile so easier to fill in a blanks in peoples minds etc.So explosives to imply an impacted event, creating holes,

    1st tower i would have said no plane or missile not needed as very few would be looking at it, let alone filming it (am I right we hadn't long had camera phones at the time?) Although an interview with a survivor from a meeting that I think he was supposed to die in, said he looked across at the other tower and saw people being 'pulled' out of windows and plane wreckage, he also mentions smelling something like gasoline. He seemed genuine. So I wonder if his memory filled in the blanks after the fact and what he was looking at was a horrifying sight of building wreckage, people screaming yet not moving or desperately trying to hold onto window edges and probably a lot smoke, Or the interviewee was a plant because the picture on his ID from the time was hard to reconcile from the man speaking, even a accounting for age.

    I shan't mention the scratch in the field into which a whole aeroplane apparently burred itself!

    I was satisfied with the thermite, expertly controlled demolition because i did not know the towers were basically built in the river and hadn't thought of the or just how much weight should have hit the ground and WTF is going on with those cars ? Not a pyroclastic cloud as the cloud didn't burn people ... and those cars were a significant distance away ....
    I have no framework for what happened to the building that it wouldn't show significantly on a seismograph and cause beams to curl and to cause damage to far away vehicles like that.
    I'm honestly still in a state of 'what, that's just not pos..but ... but but ...what the hell

    So here i am again with a brain stretched headache

    LOL

    Thanks

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Quote Posted by lake (here)
    (edit to add: post #51)

    For the record .... I still consider that 2 drones hit WTC 1 & 2 and that the Pentagon was hit by a missile (right in the monies) and Shanksville was a badly constructed bull**** site.
    Hi lake. I am curious as to what you mean by “drone”. In common parlance, it means a remotely controlled aircraft, usually the small multi rotor electric ones or the smallish winged guided ones being used in the Ukraine war.

    But F-4 Phantoms and F-16’s have been flown as adversary/target in training exercises, and the kicker is what’s called “Uninterruptable Autopilot”. Iirc. Apparently designed to end-run hijacking attempts.

    The speeds and maneuvering are said by some, to be suspect, but I can see a beefed up airframe and digital control assistance doing it. This assumes swapping airframes, but still evokes “planes”. RIP for any souls on the named planes.

    It’s like trying to understand the second and third rules of Fight Club.

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    Hatzolah (hatzoloh) dispatch release on 9-11

    Picked up on this earlier and am just placing it here as a piece of film that may be important, or not at all. Some commentators claim this hatzolah dispatch footage was recorded before the first incident at WTC1, others claim that it was recorded later on that day. I honestly don't have a clue who may be right there as this is the first time I've seen this and I've watched hundreds of videos around 9/11, and many more than once. I don't really know what to make of it to be honest. Is it important, at all? You be the judge.

    https://video.twimg.com/amplify_vide...C6u.mp4?tag=16

    So, a fair bit of conjecture swirling around this from what I've seen so far with nothing really concrete to run with to date. Anyway I've downloaded it and will link to its X url for now:

    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: 9/11: Truth Still Matters, Over 20 Years Later

    There's not enough time verification in the video to accurately assign the warning as being before the events on 9-11. If the notice came during or after the events, it would not involve any foreknowledge, for which we have troves of evidence.

    There are enough proofs already available, digitally, on video, in the sciences, in metallurgy, aerodynamics, etc., etc., to confirm what we all know about the perpetrators and the profiteers involved. I do appreciate the great sacrifices that those of conscience and service to humanity, thus of their own humane judgement at the moments of departure, have made to expose such a turn into the darkness.

    There are many histories that will be shared once those who have shared their forewarned experiences are gone. There are many, many of us who cannot reveal what we were told by those who were forewarned until after they have died. We honor their anonymity and trust, and by now we see those life saving forewarnings as being almost mute in comparison to what we have seen, and what we know, and also by the trillions of dollars those who carried out the attacks benefitted from, the deaths of innocent civilians and combatants on all sides notwithstanding.

    By then those testimonies will just be further proofs of the preplanning of all aspects of the most recent "Pearl Harbor" attacks, and as such will only be incidental to our understanding, even though every single aspect of the event was carried out entirely by agents of western hedgemonies.

    Dig into the diversion of those flights to the air force base west of Boston.
    Last edited by Hym; 4th June 2024 at 16:02.

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