An important announcement following the closure of the WORM TONGUE thread

[Adaiahsshadow]

Posted by ace (here)

Posted by Adaiahsshadow (here)

Posted by ace (here)
Abolish The PM service. Have it all up front. Were it should be.

Transparency = Truth, Understanding and Peace of mind.

PM= Paranoia.

Ace

I'd have to disagree with you on this one Ace. The reason being is that I never discuss someone else in PM, however I have many times worked with people concerning what they feel are personal issues. Seeing as you are one of my friends does that mean that if I came to you with a personal issue, you would have no problem discussing it publicly without my consent? I sincerely hope not.

Namaste.

Have i ever.

Ace

No. Although I have not brought an issue to you. I'm simply making a point. I understand your reasoning and I agree if you can't say something in front of someone, then you definately shouldn't be saying it behind their back. Though there is a lot of good work that is done around here in private with those we have grown to trust and respect. Abolishing that would cut off that avenue of healing for several members.

namaste

[Icecold]

Posted by John (here)
vbBulletin out of the box, does not provide the ability for admins to read peoples PM's - and if such a dishonourable thing were to be done, real effort needs to be expended.

However, one can add extensions to the software that makes it possible - if this has happened it is easy to verify, and concealment of this requires collusion in a manner that is difficult to maintain. Independent audit can reveal the signs.

And DevilPigeon explained the SQL approach.

That fact that either of these things are possible - does not mean it actually happened it just means that it may have.

I would be amazed if any of the current administrators with back end access would had abused their position in this manner.

The SQL approach is quite simple to implement.

[jorr lundstrom]

Bill. Im all in.

We are humans.

[Anchor]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
This is now a little like that scene in A FEW GOOD MEN with Jack Nicholson.

You're damned right we read Private Messages!!

This is totally not funny, of course. That part of me that habitually makes references to movie moments had to make the link. I guess humor is a form of attempted denial. I really did not want this to be true.

Oh FFS - When I was administrator (previous Avalon forum), it was not true. Which admin would do such a thing?

Would whichever admins are left please step forward and state the facts - because, much as I admire what Celine is trying to do she has danced around the subject and not stated exactly what was said - and this is potentially a CRISIS of confidence in the forum and it needs to STOP NOW.

John..

[Hughe]

One mistake and be gone? This is what the corporate and pyramid power structure to control people.
If I'm wrong about it, correct me.

Making one mistake and be killed or fired is real non-human thing. Period.
Whoever has this mind is to think about what kind of being will oneself become.

We are all part of this mess, and I hope the management team of PA should learn something from this turmoil.

[Jendayi]

Posted by Celine (here)

Posted by Hawkwind (here)
I said more or less this before in another post, but it seems worth repeating here. If Charles is being straight with us, then there are very powerful people, (including some of the planet's best psychics with access to technologies far ahead of anything in the public sector), who would have a vested interest in stopping what's going on here. If Charles isn't being straight with us then his most likely reason for his being here would be to take Bill down and tear Avalon apart. Bill has already mentioned that Charles was able to plant a specific thought in his mind (go to the Swiss Air desk and ask for a standby ticket) and Charles later confirmed this. Is it so difficult to believe then that feelings of uncontrolled rage or deep betrayal could also be sent someone's way? One way or another I'm sure Avalon and her members are the focus of powerful forces aimed at causing unrest here. I'd like to ask everyone to be mindful of this at least as a possibility, and the need to stay as centered as possible when participating in discussions here. The best way I've found to deal with agent provocateurs, for example, is to remain in good humor and laugh at their attempts. If I can't do that, I've found that walking away from the situation for a bit and listening to music or working in my garden helps. Yes, I know all of that may strike some people as a bit paranoid, but as the saying goes- just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
I'm very sad at what has happened, so I can only imagine how Bill, Richard and Celine are feeling. Much love to you all.

Ok this is the last post i make on this thread...


Richard has been an essential part of everything here.

This is a very big issue,.,and richard should never go..

Bill..

I will go...never come back...i will keep my word and never talk about all the things you are worried i will talk about.

Richard belongs on this trip with you.

The bomb threat...if i know my husband.... was his way of getting you to respond, he knew one f the mods would tell you.

His thought process is always about Avalon... your behavior was indicating to him that you had 0 intentions of dealing with the problems at hand...he felt like a parent without choices... you put him in positions time and time again, where he felt he had no choice..

These are volunteers....giving more then any i have ever seen on line...please tell me what you offerd as support?

They went above and beyond the call of duty many times.. Richard was asking you to do the same...and you failed him

So...as i said above...i will go..

one word here..or in pvt will be enough.."ok"<--just say that...and you wont need 24 hours..

Sit and talk ..WITH richard not at him... and i promise it will work out..

Richard and i both had one card to play ...and we lost.

But its just one hand...

This is the 11th hour...

Please take more time to think this thru... Richard is much more important here then i am...

with love...and deep sadness... i am sorry for any pain or trouble i have caused anyone...it was never my intent. All i wanted to do was be with my husband... and to help Avalon...this is all i truly wanted you to understand bill...please, in respect to the time and heart we both gave you and the forum...

i ask for forgiveness..

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Celine (here)
Admins can read pm's/// stop lying to ppl

If the Avalon admins can read Private Messages, this is the first I've ever heard of it. I appreciate the confirmation. This may now explain a great deal to quite a few people.

The thought of deliberately looking into members' PMs had never occurred to me, and I did not think it was possible. You are correct: we are learning.

Bill you were at the table..at the coffee shop..and Richard told you

self reflection is an important step towards healing.... Bill and others that feel desillusioned.... for the sake of your own soul's growth... there is still time for all involved to rise from the ashes as a beautiful phoenix... i have read the worm tongue thread and this one... my heart cried by seeing all the nastyness... my soul smiled at seeing the potential for inner growth... my mind became still when i realised i was detached enough to let it run it's course...and my inner child laughed when reading the comic relief and wisdom displayed in some avalonians' posts.. we will be tested over and over.. and the agents of change have entered our backyard... people we have trusted for years become antagonists for a reason... to show us one more time what our fears are... we fear being open and vulnerable... we condemn most who are open in a way that it borders on naivety... the eyes of a child are what is needed now... please.... forgive oneself and others.. we are in this together... move on... free hugs anyone?

[Icecold]

Posted by John (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
This is now a little like that scene in A FEW GOOD MEN with Jack Nicholson.

You're damned right we read Private Messages!!

This is totally not funny, of course. That part of me that habitually makes references to movie moments had to make the link. I guess humor is a form of attempted denial. I really did not want this to be true.

Oh FFS - When I was administrator (previous Avalon forum), it was not true. Which admin would do such a thing?

Would whichever admins are left please step forward and state the facts - because, much as I admire what Celine is trying to do she has danced around the subject and not stated exactly what was said - and this is potentially a CRISIS of confidence in the forum and it needs to STOP NOW.

John..

John, I believe you.

Still its simple enough.

Creating taboo speech on the subject is not constructive.

[TigerLilly]

Well put Céline, please let him stay Bill.

We need Richard here.

[Ammit]

Wow, what ever happened here, while I was unable to log on obviously hit Explosion point.

I have no need or want to critisise any member here but do have a request.

Lets all look out side for a moment, see the trees and flowers prepairing for spring bloom.
Lets look at the struggling people in struggling countries.
Lets realise that the world needs calmness and friendship to survive.
We should all be in a mind of peace to one another on this forum,
After all, we are seeking truth, the world needs no more anger...

Blessings

Ammit

[Icecold]

I believe Bill will consider any thoughts here with an impartial mind.

I'm confident in both his ability as a leader and in his virtues which include compassion and forgiveness.

[ace]

No. Although I have not brought an issue to you. I'm simply making a point. I understand your reasoning and I agree if you can't say something in front of someone, then you definately shouldn't be saying it behind their back. Though there is a lot of good work that is done around here in private with those we have grown to trust and respect. Abolishing that would cut off that avenue of healing for several members.

namaste

It's how little groups are formed, it's were us and them is created. It's human nature.
The last 24hrs you are witnessing the effects of "talking in private" Healing takes place just as effective
if not more effective out in the open (More people benefit)

I do see your point.

But we are talking about "Changing the World"

This has to be done "As a whole group", That's were the power is.

Respect
Ace

[mondaze]

self immolation is a course best served in private. im aghast to see it done so publicly

[Donna O]

Though I have used P.M’s myself on occasion, I would say they have a very bad side to them. They are too convenient to use when one is not thinking clearly. It would be better to gather yourself before reaching for the button to hold a private conversation with anyone, many things are said in haste!

Friendships should be able to be formed out in the open, this is the new way to ‘be’, no secrets. This is a road less traveled, if at all, why don’t we try it, it could be the making of us

P.m’s are the equivalent to whispering in the corner, causing all sorts of paranoia in people, whether justified or not. It can also lead to favoritism, people talking away in private and then reporting back that they have the ear of one whom so many others would like to have – i.e. the ‘Charles’ shenanigans. It causes division. Let’s kick it to the kerb.

There’s nothing to stop people skyping each other etc. Just do it away from Avalon, on your own time.

[chelmostef]

How did this happen? We have to remember why we joined Avalon.

[perfectresonance]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Celine (here)
Admins can read pm's/// stop lying to ppl

I really did not want this to be true.

Bill

It has been apparent to some people here for some time as information that could not possibly be known outside the admins and the two people talking in PM kept surfacing in public threads or in 3rd party PMs to the original two.

In fact, just recently I had to ask someone for a very "secret" personal email address so I could communicate away from the suspected security leaks around here.

Since we are being so painfully honest. I suspect a few more people to fall on their sword very soon before confronted with screen shots, time lines and saved PMs.

This is a systemic problem.

[Ultima Thule]

On a lighter note I hope to make a point: in this forum or any other for that matter, I would have each of us thinking before writing: what if this was my last thread on earth? What will I write, given it will be discussed among many other things beyond the veil. So let´s write as we would to god/oneness - or more down to earth - like we knew our mom is going to read the mail.. will we be able to look god/mom in the eye? Would I say this, if I was looking the other person in the eye?

I am not saying we should suppress our emotions - on the contrary, but after all they are our emotions, for us to feel, not to be tsunamisized on other peoples shores. I´ve never met anyone perfect at this, I definitely have on many occasions lost my cool, lashing out, not here, but you know, with the kids and all..., but ultimately the forum guidelines do try to guide us towards that fine goal.

[chelmostef]

P.M's IMO are a good thing if not used to form gangs or leak information to undermine people. Perhaps all the mods should be able to read all of our P.M's. I personally would be happy with this.

[Tommy]

Just FYI to all reading: Even though we now know that reading PM's is technically possible, we can not simply jump to our own conclusions about this. We are talking about the integrity of real people here, and unless one has concrete examples or suspicions to back this up I think it should remain only for future consideration. Win-win, we learn something either way..

I for one just stated the technical facts about the question.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by perfectresonance (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Celine (here)
Admins can read pm's/// stop lying to ppl

I really did not want this to be true.

Bill

It has been apparent to some people here for some time as information that could not possibly be known outside the admins and the two people talking in PM kept surfacing in public threads or in 3rd party PMs to the original two.

In fact, just recently I had to ask someone for a very "secret" personal email address so I could communicate away from the suspected security leaks around here.

Since we are being so painfully honest. I suspect a few more people to fall on their sword very soon before confronted with screen shots, time lines and saved PMs.

This is a systemic problem.

****, I really think you should send a detailed report to Bill (if you have not already). If this is a fact then it needs to be dealt with now!

[chelmostef]

We can work though this as long as we dont throttle each other. Lets get to the truth

[perfectresonance]

Posted by seeingterra (here)
Just FYI to all reading: Even though we now know that reading PM's is technically possible, we can not simply jump to our own conclusions about this. We are talking about the integrity of real people here, and unless one has concrete examples or suspicions to back this up I think it should remain only for future consideration. Win-win, we learn something either way..

I for one just stated the technical facts about the question.

Tommy, the wife of the Admin concerned admitted it happens.

It's in the open. Now we have to find a way to deal with it.