A major key to a long and healthy life: fasting or a ketogenic diet

[Olaf]

I also started my BBBE diet last saturday. On sunday I was very hungry and missing my carbohydrates. After applying 8 minutes of magnet field therapy to my liver (old Bemer 3000 device), my body seems to adopt faster to the new regime.

Dr. Sten Ekberg reports, that his body needed three days to start producing ketone bodies as new energy source.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ctDyQDIWAc

Nevertheless I would also listen to my body and stop, when I am not feeling well with this. Perhaps you may have a small infect, Bill?

[Harmony]

Bill, you have recently been on a fast before you started this new BBBE diet. I hope you will really nourish yourself today with foods like your raw cocoa hot chocolate with a little coconut oil and some carob molasses. Some vegetable juice or mineral rich liquids and some watermelon or fruits with minerals. Try and just take it easy but keep having some of those goodies often to balance your system until you feel back to normal

[Czarek]

... long and healthy life (if considering food intake) consists of eating little to no dairy, eggs, fish, spices. Bison, lamb, beef, turkey, rice, beans, sourdough bread, some apples, bananas, some elemental pure salt and with that, the garbage out will be greater than garbage in. Particularly pay attention to compounds that turn into alcohol. Avoid at all cost. This is what ages you.

[Agape]

Hello Bill, I've just happened to read here recently because I'm not feeling well either. But read your last post so kindly don't think that I "don't care".

There may be fluid reason why "keto diets" and protein loads work better for some than others, I do know from friends who have tested it in long profile .
The most succesful metabolic catalyst for carnivore based diets seems to be alcohol ( take it or leave it) as it breaks down lipids, proteins and complicated sugars and provides venal drainage , clears excess amounts of lipids and other build up accumulated in liver, digestive tract etc

For sure: alcohol abuse leads to direct opposite but so does any other substance abuse.

People who are succesful do not always mention "how they did it".

As known non-alcoholic who you are , I'm not surprised of your symptoms .
IF you were able to drink some beers or red wine on the top ( red wine is far better in my opinion) it could serve you well and bring you back to the strength required.

I'm also non alcoholic and especially do not tolerate beer and the smell off but if I had a glass a wine times to times it did me rather well.

I'm 99% vegetarian otherwise and have pancreatic insufficiency since childhood thats mostly manageable by diet, in peaceful setting does not require even much dieting but hits me at times of overheat , extreme cold, stress and fatigue . And of course not having the right choice or amount of feed does not help so I can not eat "whatever wherever" and feeding self by bits serves ne the best

In either case , as alcohol is out of option, I suggest some fizzy drinks if you can find those.


Sounds paradoxical and bad advice for self affirmed dietologists but everyone is different and you are completely right on "follow your own body intelligence and advice".

Since India is rather hot country even here 2000 m/sea level and since the global overheat is running, I'd have never survived here without Cola, Sprite and Soda.

I'm complete exception among people "on diets" because "bubbles" are said to be bad for you but they do me well ,

while drinking still water literarily draines me of both water and energy .

Other than fizzy water plus hot drinks like lemon tea or milk coffee I could probably live on ice cream, even in cold winters.

Ate ( responsibly) 4 bread toasts the other day , it knocked me out of function since I was already unwell.

I do abstain from most grains , no rice or lentils or breads and wheats, no oats work for me, it just upsets my digestion and once so , diary too stops working.

I completely can eat butter 🧈 and egg 🥚, the later time to times.

Can eat oil marinated olives and other pickles but not fried foods and well, no hot spice .

That's in brief . Hope you have good luck and can help yourself by any means available.

🪷

[Ravenlocke]

I’m pressed for time so have to make this short.

Im sorry you feel so bad Bill, wish you a speedy recovery.

Also Im still researching, but apparently some folks experience “keto flu” at first, symptoms include tiredness, nausea, and feeling under the weather. Also I read that some folks take electrolyte drink which eases the symptoms.

Later, take care,

Ravenlocke

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I embarked on the BBBE diet the last two days. I'm not doing well.

So this is the start of Day 3, and I'm considering abandoning it entirely.
[ ... ]
I promise to report back later..!!

Dear Friends, many thanks for your posts (and concern!), and here's the update.

I did listen to my body, and had an avocado for breakfast. I instantly felt infused with energy. (I have no idea why! It was just as effective as hot chocolate. )

Just one avocado fixed everything, and it was instant. Right after that, my dog Mara and I went out on our hike (two hours in the high mountains) and it was all 100% fine and normal.

So I'm not going to do this again. BBBE has almost zero carbs at all, maybe merely 5 grams/day. Clearly, for me that's just not enough, especially as I was fast approaching my minimum healthy weight, and despite not being hungry at all I was losing weight rapidly.

I shared this completely different story in some detail on the Water Fasting thread a couple of weeks back, and that'll be my own go-to protocol from here on out if ever needed.

Reminder to self: (and everyone!)

1. Everybody is different.
2. Every body is different.

[Flash]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Just thinking aloud here, I'm contemplating trying out his

Beef, butter, bacon, eggs,
Beef, butter, bacon, eggs

diet for maybe just a week. (Not 90 days!! I don't need to do that.)

But a week could do no harm and it might be an interesting experience. No olive oil, no milk, nuts or cheese, nothing else at all. I'd be curious to see what happens to my desire for other things to augment that, and also what might happen to my energy.

An interim update, that some here might find interesting.

I embarked on the BBBE diet the last two days. I'm not doing well.

So this is the start of Day 3, and I'm considering abandoning it entirely. I'm tired but not sleeping well, my legs are leaden and I have no energy, I'm not hungry (and have no desire this morning for any more bacon and eggs), and last night in bed I was so cold I had to get up at midnight and put on hiking socks and a fleece jacket. (OMG!)

Readers of my posts here (and on the Water Fasting thread) will have seen me often offering the advice; Always listen to your body. My body is begging me to stop this. How anyone can maintain this for 90 days is beyond my imagination.

I was doing far, far better on my recent non-strict water fast a few weeks ago, which I reported in some detail here. I was bouncing with energy and felt great, nibbling on celery, with sips of raw milk, kefir, and some small bites of fruit, going on hour-long high mountain hikes every couple of days which all felt easy and fun.

I'd promised myself (and my dog Mara!) I'd go for a hike today, my first since starting the BBBE — and I'm not sure I can do it.

I promise to report back later..!!

That keto diet was excellent for me, I felt energized and lost 40 pounds 4 years ago first time around. You remember how fat I was, it felt sooooo good. I gained back 15 pounds and I am actually going back on Keto.

And no, it cannot be for a lifetime, tough to follow. But.... with the keto, I had a super vitaminized bio protein formulae for breakfast, plus 3 glasses of bio cranberry juice mixed with water (1 cranberry 3 water) plus with 3 tbs of lemon juice and 3 tbs of cider vinegar in the juice, 3 times per day, it cleans the kidneys and liver you would not believe.

In my high vitamins regular protein no sugar bio shake I add fish oil (omega 3 and vitamin D), almond milk, water and vanilla for taste, plus half a banana. I also add Dr Stamet formulae of lion mane in powder form, and a mix of mushrooms (cannot get the microdoses of magic mushrooms in Canada, as suggested, it is illegal, looking for it though). Next month I will add niacin as soon as I can get psilocybin in micro dosage. It seems that the combination of magic shrooms, niacin and lion mane repairs the nervous system, and helps new neurons birthing and neuronal connections. I will see if it works when I complete the whole thing. Being diabetic, the nervous system is under duress, demyelination occurs, I may need it to be helped. I always give it a 3 months trial before rejecting a therapy (which I did with different treatments for my daughter and it made wonders/miracles).

The trick with keto is not being hungry, supplementing with vitamins found in veggies and fruits, at least for a while, and take a break from it every 6 months (3 months break). And mostly adding salt to the diet because it makes you lose lots of salt.

The first 5 days on keto you are sneezing as if you have an allergy. It goes away after 5 days not to come back. This is a sign that you are into keto for the first time.

Good luck everyone, it did work for me and it will again.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Flash (here)
That keto diet was excellent for me, I felt energized and lost 40 pounds 4 years ago first time around. You remember how fat I was, it felt sooooo good. I gained back 15 pounds and I am actually going back on Keto.

Dear Flash, that's so very interesting and inspiring to read. It underscores for me that a keto diet has to be (a) intelligent and (b) very well thought-out, with (c) full awareness engaged.

It's not a formulaic thing (you can't just copy someone else's to-do list), and what works fine for one person may not work so well for another. (Not at all!)

~~~

With that in mind, here's what I just discovered literally a few minutes ago. I glanced at myself in the mirror (something I actually don't often do) — and I look terrible. Not a joke. I really look quite sick. I'm not even going to share a photo of my whole face.

But here's a close-up of my right eye.... it's developed something that looks like a bruise, but I never hurt myself, and it's not in any way sensitive. I have no idea what this is, or how it happened, but I'm pretty sure it's new as of today. And it can't possibly be a good thing.

[Flash]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Flash (here)
That keto diet was excellent for me, I felt energized and lost 40 pounds 4 years ago first time around. You remember how fat I was, it felt sooooo good. I gained back 15 pounds and I am actually going back on Keto.

Dear Flash, that's so very interesting and inspiring to read. It underscores for me that a keto diet has to be (a) intelligent and (b) very well thought-out, with (c) full awareness engaged.

It's not a formulaic thing (you can't just copy someone else's to-do list), and what works fine for one person may not work so well for another. (Not at all!)

~~~

With that in mind, here's what I just discovered literally a few minutes ago. I glanced at myself in the mirror (something I actually don't often do) — and I look terrible. Not a joke. I really look quite sick. I'm not even going to share a photo of my whole face.

But here's a close-up of my right eye.... it's developed something that looks like a bruise, but I never hurt myself, and it's not in any way sensitive. I have no idea what this is, or how it happened, but I'm pretty sure it's new as of today. And it can't possibly be a good thing.

Not good at all Bill, get a blood test asap. I am thinking of 2 things: a bad mosquito bite or something similar, or a veins/blood disease. But I would not wait too long if it does not get brown within days (a bruise going away). As we age, our veins and arteries system gets weaker and fragile, and we have a greater tendency to bruise. We also have a greater tendency to get stuff like a lack of vital vitamins, leukemia, etc.

As a humorous thinking, I did not know you were married and that she was a rolling pin after your 'walks' in the wilderness (for those literal minds, I made this up)

[Harmony]

Just having a quick look on line, there are quite a few posts about people on a keto diet developing temporary dark circles under their eyes. It is probably a bit of an overload on your organs when things get a bit out of balance with the nutrition they may have lacked temporarily. It is so amazing how everything normally functions energetically with thousands of things happening automatically every second, like a well oiled engine. Nurture yourself with easy to absorb elemental nutrients now and your fresh water too, a little at a time.

[Agape]

It may have lots to do with Sun and computer exposure Bill and as Flash said, venal membranes getting frail due to age and physical strain so definitely better stay home for a while.

It "looks fine" no worries unless your eye was also hurt but definitely requires eye rest. The UV is high up there.

There's only one serious danger and that could be some kind of brain aneurysm in process trying to leak out, due to combination of factors , BP in our heads (due to overwork and light exposure, insufficient oxygen saturation ) is times different than body blood pressure.

You've taken more problems on you in this life than one can carry.

There may be time to take rest "from everyone" including electronics .

You have Admins and Moderators who will take care of the forum for a while , no "Goddy" onboard.

As a responsible mountain climber you know you need to take care of yourself first.

You also know that people on the internet may not be help you immediately in emergency and that self care comes first.

We all love you and respect you and can wait till you get better.

🙏🏼🪷✨

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Agape (here)
It may have lots to do with Sun and computer exposure Bill and as Flash said, venal membranes getting frail due to age and physical strain so definitely better stay home for a while.

It "looks fine" no worries unless your eye was also hurt but definitely requires eye rest. The UV is high up there.

Yes, super-high and off the scale. Here's the chart for today: (I'm in one of the '13' areas, and it's probably 16 or 17 up in the high mountains)



But I wear the best quality UV mountain glasses all the time, plus my wide-brimmed leather hat when it's sunny — though it has to be possible it's some kind of accumulated effect.

I'm applying arnica cream to see if that helps. And I'm going back to my regular healthy diet straight away. (I only tried the BBBE thing out of sheer curiosity having heard about it... this is how I learn stuff. In my own case this time, I learned never again. )

[Bill Ryan]

And here's a selfie taken just a moment ago. Last night I looked really quite sick, and I rather shocked myself. This morning, I don't look too bad — though my eyes are both still a little puffy.



~~~
Important footnote! I don't want this thread to become all about me. Flash's great-news personal report yesterday was both important and inspiring, and it may be a MUST-READ for many considering using the keto diet to fix all kinds of things, which I fully believe it can.

My recent posts have all been about the experimental BBBE (beef, butter, bacon, eggs) protocol, which is such a simplified and crude keto diet that (in my current thinking) it surely has limitations and maybe even dangers for some.

[Dennis Leahy]

I sent the following as an email to Bill, and he thought it may be helpful to others, so I'm posting it here:


----------------------


Hi Bill,

I saw your eye picture and will offer my nutritional thoughts:

Nutrients for blood vessels. Vitamin C and especially bioflavonoids for capillary wall strength.

You probably already have your mineral supplements figured out (zinc, magnesium, selenium, iodine,...), but do you supplement copper? Copper is a weird one, in that it competes with zinc. I was told (neurologist) not to supplement copper because copper can get too high and cause problems. He said just eat copper rich food. Another opinion (Naturopath) says to take them both in a ratio of 12:1, zinc to copper. Copper is required for healthy blood vessels.

I don't supplement calcium (after seeing calcium deposits in my arteries on an X-ray, I figure I get plenty, and I also now take K2.) I have read that men shouldn't supplement iron, so I don't. I eat 3 Brazil nuts every day as my selenium "supplement."

I'm also trying to put lotion on my skin frequently, but I usually forget - it just was never a habit for me. But, it's one of the things that is said to plump-up the skin cells and make the skin a bit more resilient. A lotion especially for faces will probably contain hyaluronic acid.

Like you, I rarely look in the mirror, but when I do I'm kinda shocked at how old I look, and it's my skin and not just gray hair. When I do look in the mirror it's a reminder to put on face lotion. (I also need some activated cannabis oil to put on a couple of "pre-cancerous" patches.)

And, I have started taking "Bovine Collagen Peptides Powder" to try to strengthen my skin. (My skin has become thin, "friable", but the bruising from lightly bumping things I suspect is internal - weak capillary walls.)

For vitamins affecting blood vessels, my first thought is B-12. It's hard to take too much B-12. Vitamin K2 takes the calcium out of your blood and deposits it on bone where it belongs, but I doubt that is your issue right now. K2, Vitamin D, and magnesium work in synergy. In the distant past, I thought vitamin D was just for strong bones, the cure for rickets. But so much information has come out on vitamin D in immunity and endocrine functions and skin health. I was taking 5000 IU, but recently doubled that to 10K and will take 20K a day if I'm around known sick people.

I take vitamin E (in the form of tocotrenols) occasionally, not daily. I don't supplement vitamins A or K1, thinking I get enough in food.

Other obvious things: water and sleep. You've been at altitude for a long time, but maybe the long-term effects of altitude are cumulative? The magnetic pole movement allows more particles of every kind coming from space or the sun to hit us, so your radiation level has increased.

I hope some of these thoughts will be helpful and if nothing else, I am commiserating and sending my intention that you get back to vibrant health as soon as possible.

My very best to you, Bill!

Dennis

[Agape]

Ha Bill, yes you look better and younger than 15 years ago and before you moved to Ecuador.

High Sun is a menace of our times. Our UV at 2000 meters above sea level is regularly at 10 or 11 on clear sky days which is a lot and its dangerous for eyes even with dark or Polaroid sunshades because eyes overheat behind them.

The higher you walk here the air gets cleaner and pollution free so also easier to breathe.

Whatever helps . I do not use crams or sunscreens or any kinds of oils , just exceptionally or topically in case of injuries. In which case they seem to work or not but things either heal better without them or get worse "after application".

In risk of sounding ridiculous here but I don't use supplements, not even herbs because I've repeatedly figured out they're "game" and waste of money and the effects are rarely really worth it.

So yes perhaps a key to healthy selves is abstinence from overfeed aka fasting So practising more abstinence than indulgence or experimenting seems to work the best.

I don't miss that part of experience in life since my mum was in the specialised medical field and herself complicated case so we have tried whatever naturopathy on professional level aside of her clinical treatments.

To make you all laugh ( I'm a happy person ) I consider an egg kind of "sacred item". For all its beauty and all it represents.

My feed is so limited But I pick the egg I choose ( by one) and keep it for a bit then decide whether to eat it, actually.

I'm too "funny" to be with for most people I dare to say.


Glad you have got back on track ...

When unwell I do not recommend walking. Not even "down the mountain" or anything similar. Perhaps especially not down the mountain. If there's any kind of inflammation the physical heat produced by activity makes it much worse.
It's better to rest and wait till inflammation subsides.


Of course I fear I would not be objective in my sincere advice over the distance so better to leave you safe with people who can assist actually.


Bestest ( the very best wishes for speedy recovery)

🙏🏼

[Bill Ryan]

An update, for anyone following the (very minor! ) mystery about what the heck happened to me after just 2 days of the BBBE diet.

I can't prove this, and I'm not going to invest in a bunch of blood tests, but I'm increasingly suspecting that what I encountered was very mild protein toxicity. That's a real thing, and when it's NOT mild, it can be very serious, developing into dangerous poisoning.

One of the key aspects of any keto diet is including a LOT of fat. I was fully aware of this, but I'm now thinking I might have been short of fat in my BBBE experience.

When talking to my body yesterday and today about what happened, it kept on telling me that it had too much protein to process, couldn't cope, and was knocked way out of balance. (That's why it was "begging me to stop", and it really was.)

Since I stopped the BBBE, I've had almost no protein at all — only sips of milk and some yogurt. No meat, eggs or even nuts. The dark patch under my right eye is rapidly fading, I went on another 2 hour mountain hike today, was energetic throughout, and I feel great again.

Here's an article that might be useful to some:

How Much Protein on Keto: 5 Common Mistakes People Make on a Keto Diet

[Flash]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
An update, for anyone following the (very minor! ) mystery about what the heck happened to me after just 2 days of the BBBE diet.

I can't prove this, and I'm not going to invest in a bunch of blood tests, but I'm increasingly suspecting that what I encountered was very mild protein toxicity. That's a real thing, and when it's NOT mild, it can be very serious, developing into dangerous poisoning.

One of the key aspects of any keto diet is including a LOT of fat. I was fully aware of this, but I'm now thinking I might have been short of fat in my BBBE experience.

When talking to my body yesterday and today about what happened, it kept on telling me that it had too much protein to process, couldn't cope, and was knocked way out of balance. (That's why it was "begging me to stop", and it really was.)

Since I stopped the BBBE, I've had almost no protein at all — only sips of milk and some yogurt. No meat, eggs or even nuts. The dark patch under my right eye is rapidly fading, I went on another 2 hour mountain hike today, was energetic throughout, and I feel great again.

Here's an article that might be useful to some:

How Much Protein on Keto: 5 Common Mistakes People Make on a Keto Diet

you are entirely right, the amount of fat intake has to be larger in caloric count than the amount of proteins. For this, I have fat in coffee, or take a cup of home made bio chicken broth adding salted herbs for taste and electrolytes at night. I am not hyper steady, but steady enough. I also eat lots of berries with cream 35% please. Fat cuts the hunger and also, although counter intuitive, accelerate weight loss.

I am happy your body is back on track. We should always do what is best for our individual needs. And did I need to lose weight (that was gained mainly under extreme stress = cortisol high levels, for more than 15 years).

[leavesoftrees]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
And here's a selfie taken just a moment ago. Last night I looked really quite sick, and I rather shocked myself. This morning, I don't look too bad — though my eyes are both still a little puffy.



~~~

Bags under the eyes can indicate that the kidneys are working overtime - possibly from too much protein. When I first heard of the BBBE diet I wondered how good it would be to eat too much bacon. - the nitrites used as part of the bacon processing - can be carcinogenic

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by leavesoftrees (here)
Bags under the eyes can indicate that the kidneys are working overtime - possibly from too much protein. When I first heard of the BBBE diet I wondered how good it would be to eat too much bacon. - the nitrites used as part of the bacon processing - can be carcinogenic

You're 100% right. I promise everyone I'm not getting self-obsessed about this! But it feels like such important learning to share.

Below (on the right) is another selfie taken 48 hours later, just a few minutes ago. You can see the difference. I've not edited the image at all.

In the last 72 hours I've had almost no protein, no meat, eggs, cheese or nuts — just a little milk and yogurt. (And I don't want any, either.) I feel great, and the bags under my eyes are almost gone.

[Abondance]

I tried the keto diet a few years ago, I didn't last more than a few weeks, too sickening...
And it didn't do me a lot of good, but I know an athlete who followed him for a full year with good results.
The intermittent fasting, on the other hand, that I've been testing for a few days, gives me a lot of energy and is not really restrictive... It's up to everyone to find their balance, take care of yourself Bill