Dealing with power outages

[Bill Ryan]

Dear Friends, I was inspired to start this thread after reading Ewan's experience here (no power for 4 days), and Wade Frazier's here (no power for 5 days). And some after Hurricane Helene, maybe longer.

Here in Ecuador, as I shared on several threads, we're just pulling out of a record 150-day drought, which hugely compromised the hydro-dependent power grid and caused scheduled blackouts which for a brief few weeks were as much as 14 hours a day.

Fortunately, my life at home was almost completely unaffected, internet outages notwithstanding. I feel quietly pleased with how well my system here all worked, and I thought it might be helpful to share it.

Much will be very well-known (or just plain obvious!), but there are one or two little things which might be useful for others to consider when creating their own power outage safety nets.


1. A generator

I have a little Briggs & Stratton 1700 watt gasoline generator, this one.



I bought it years ago in a Black Friday sale, 60% reduced to just $150. I never used it until a couple months ago, and just started it for 5 minutes every now and then to keep it all working fine. It's now done about 200 hours and is perfect for the job. (Like any engine, it needs oil changes and clean filters to keep it all in good shape, but these are extremely simple things anyone can do in minutes.)

It's not big enough to power heavy appliances, and so when it's running I unplug my fridge/freezer and don't use my electric kettle or coffee machine.

But it's ideal for lights, charging batteries, small low-power things, and my laptop. (I actually could use my electric kettle or coffee machine, but it puts a big load on the generator which slows down and works very hard like a car going up a steep hill. For that reason I go easy and never overload it.)

For fresh coffee, I fill a jug when the power grid is on, and then store it in the fridge. I use gas for cooking, so it's easy to heat it up again in a pan on the stove. And re the fridge/freezer, I have it turned a little cooler than normal when the power is on, so that even if it's unplugged for 7 or 8 hours nothing thaws or spoils. This has worked perfectly.


2) An inverter

Some may not know about this. It's a cheap and clever little device that you attach to your car battery (directly, or via the cigarette lighter socket) and which then converts the 12 volts from your car to 300 or 400 watts and 110 volts (or 240). That's plenty enough to charge batteries, flashlights, or a laptop, any time you like.

If you connect it without the engine running, it'll drain the battery super-fast (like leaving the headlights on). But with the engine running, you have your own little generator right there.

Here's one of many on Amazon, and it costs just $33. Never let a rechargeable flashlight fail on you again!




3) Washing clothes

I have a little Avalon Bay (that's its name ) hand-cranked washing machine and spin dryer. It costs about $50.



The hand crank has a gear which makes it spin super-fast. It won't take a heavy load, but works great (and quickly!) for washing socks, underwear, or T-shirts. All you need is hot water, but cold water will do fine much of the time. There's a fun video review which shows it in action here.


4) Rechargeable LED light bulbs

Some may not know about these either. They're wonderful inventions. They're 'normal' bulbs that fit into any standard light socket. They look exactly the same.

But they have a little battery built-in, so that when they're on (powered by the grid), they're also recharging like a flashlight. Then when the grid is down, they work in exactly the same way, lasting for maybe 5-6 hours at a time. They can stay in the lamp (and switch on in exactly the same way), or you can unscrew them and hang them anywhere with little hooks.

There are zillions available, and here's just one.




4) Rechargeable batteries

Like everyone reading this, I have lots of little things that need AA or AAA batteries. I use rechargeable batteries that are a small investment to start with, but the ones I have I've had for 10 years and they still work fine.

I have a little bank of battery chargers, like this:



But I also have a solar battery charger, that looks like this:



It's slower than a grid-powered one, but it works perfectly and it's a great backup.

I've NOT got one of these, but they look cool and fun: This is a pedal-powered generator that will produce 20 watts. That's plenty enough to charge any batteries in an emergency.




5) A solar flashlight

And to solve the rechargeable flashlight problem once and for all, you can get solar-re-chargeable flashlights too. I keep mine outside on the windowsill where it's sheltered from any rain but permanently charged by the morning sun.



~~~

Those are just a few things that have kept my life 99% normal even with 14 hours of blackout per day. I know that many others have been through very similar things, of course, and so I felt this thread might be useful for sharing experiences, hot tips, learning, never-again-mistakes , and anything else that we might all benefit from.

[SilentFeathers]

I recently built a 48vt solar/battery system for my tiny home I live in (a 34ft travel trailer). I'm good to go and can run everything in here for about 5 days with no sun if I'm careful. I can usually top these batteries off daily if they are not drained down a lot on a good sunny day, so basically this camper is 100% off the grid.

I've got 2400 watts of solar panels to charge five 48vt 100amp service rack batteries. I'm probably going to add another row of solar panels next spring which will bring the charging wattage up to 3600 watts.

I've got the system hooked up to a 5000 watt single phase controller unit. This system will run an electric heater when needed (I also have propane heat) and can easily run a small air conditioner in the summer.

I have this camper permanently set up on my property here where I have my business, which that is on the grid. The camper is tied into the septic and water here but I have a large utility room in the back of the shop on the grid with a bathroom, washer/dryer, and a large walk in shower. If power goes out for a long period of time I may have to rough it when it comes to showers and washing cloths unless I get a split phase controller for this solar system and those extra panels! A split phase and hooking all that other stuff into the system is on my to do list.

This is similar to the system I have, same batteries but the single phase 5000 watt controller instead of the one pictured, and 12 of the 200 watt panels. I should of done this 5 years ago when I first moved into this camper!



ADDED: It's been cloudy and rainy for the last few days and the system hasn't hardly charged at all and I'm still at 67% of power remaining in the batteries. I've been running my refrigerator, computer, monitor, computer speaker system, phone, router/internet, security system with its own monitor, several LED lights, my electric blanket at nights, toaster a few times, microwave a couple of times, electric hot plate a couple of times, charged my phone a couple of times and some camera batteries and tablet. Hell of a system!

[wondering]

Bill, I did order the Avalon Bay washer/dryer. I looked at a different one but everything had to be hand wrung after washing, which would make drying more of an issue. The ratings weren't great, but I thought I would take a chance. It is now about $100 on Amazon, but appears to have a good return policy.

[norman]

If your lifestyle includes a lot of car driving/commuting, you can get large capacity power banks ( I think the market has a different name for them ) that have a range of power output formats including 3 pin 240V ( in Britain ), usb 5v, old school 12v cigarette lighter socket and some have more. They have options for charging them including standard solar panel connection and the main one being charge from car alternator.

I've been watching a lot of YT videos by van-life and car camping people in the last 12 months and those power packs are popular and integral to living a comfortable (ish) life on the road and backwoods. "If you are running the engine and driving anyway, why not have a fully charged massive power pack to use when you get somewhere".

My own normal car usage doesn't apply because I do such a low mileage in normal times. Even so, those power packs can stay at home and be charged from the grid power. Such things as phone charging and light computer use and a string of led lights will hardly dent their capacity and they will last for many days or a week or two. A small travel fridge might drain one in 2 or 3 days.

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by norman (here)
If your lifestyle includes a lot of car driving/commuting, you can get large capacity power banks ( I think the market has a different name for them ) that have a range of power output formats including 3 pin 240V ( in Britain ), usb 5v, old school 12v cigarette lighter socket and some have more. They have options for charging them including standard solar panel connection and the main one being charge from car alternator.

I've been watching a lot of YT videos by van-life and car camping people in the last 12 months and those power packs are popular and integral to living a comfortable (ish) life on the road and backwoods. "If you are running the engine and driving anyway, why not have a fully charged massive power pack to use when you get somewhere".

My own normal car usage doesn't apply because I do such a low mileage in normal times. Even so, those power packs can stay at home and be charged from the grid power. Such things as phone charging and light computer use and a string of led lights will hardly dent their capacity and they will last for many days or a week or two. A small travel fridge might drain one in 2 or 3 days.

I have a Jackery Explorer 1000 in my work van that runs a small fridge, some lights, and a battery charger so I can charge some of my Milwaukee tool batteries when needed. I can also charge my phone, tablet, or anything else with it. It charges back up while I'm driving or I can charge it running a power cord to it. It can charge with a solar panel too but I never use that method. It'll run my mini fridge for about 5 days before completely being drained.

It's been hooked up in my van for about 4 years now and still works perfectly.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by wondering (here)
Bill, I did order the Avalon Bay washer/dryer. I looked at a different one but everything had to be hand wrung after washing, which would make drying more of an issue. The ratings weren't great, but I thought I would take a chance. It is now about $100 on Amazon, but appears to have a good return policy.

What I've found is that it's most useful as a hand-cranked spin dryer (and it can spin very fast!), for delicate things like fleeces and woolens that can't go in a hot tumble dryer. They're pretty much dry in a few minutes, while on a washing line on a cold or damp day they might take hours.

It does work for washing, but when it comes to dirty socks (of which I tend to have plenty ) washing those in a simple bucket does the job easily if needed. Then I can rinse and spin them dry in 5 minutes flat using the EcoSpin.

[mojo]

I have acquired the components to build an 48 volt solar system summer but the local solar installers wanted to charge big bucks for consulting me. So, I still havent built the system. Thanks Bill for this thread because now I see Silent Feathers has built a system for 48 volts but I'm hoping when the time comes to start the build help from members on the forum can get me over the hurdles.

[Mike Gorman]

Here in Australia we are being increasingly faced with the failure of our domestic power grid, this is due to successive WEF/Davos compromised government insisting on implementing NET-Zero policies and closing down natural Gas/Coal fired power generation plants, replacing these with windmill farms and acres of solar panels - so called renewable energy measures = inefficient and unreliable electricity supplies. As you can probably gather I am a full blooded climate alarmism sceptic, to me this is such a blatantly unscientific and wrong headed belief system that I should never be invited to speak about it, I am liable to go off like a volcano.
Anyway, thanks Bill, your petrol generator looks like a beauty!
I have a gas-bottle cooker, you know those Asian aerosol gas jobs, these work very well and the gas is very cheap. I will definitely look into a generator!
Excellent ideas, and something most of us will have to contend with going forward, we don't need natural disasters to disrupt the power supplies, America/New Zealand/Britain/Australia/Canada all these countries are going to be faced with insane and dreadful Net Zero politics - best be prepared!!!

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by mojo (here)
I have acquired the components to build an 48 volt solar system summer but the local solar installers wanted to charge big bucks for consulting me. So, I still havent built the system. Thanks Bill for this thread because now I see Silent Feathers has built a system for 48 volts but I'm hoping when the time comes to start the build help from members on the forum can get me over the hurdles.

I did my system completely by myself, it wasn't that difficult at all. The hardest part was building my solar panel racks and getting the panels all mounted as they are installed on top of a shipping container on my property. I did have my daughters boyfriend help me with that but I did all the electrical work/installation myself.

Buying the all in one controller/charger unit did simplify things for sure. (and watching several YouTube video's).

[Anchor]

I'm in Rural NSW and everyone in their right mind out here has generator, petrol usually or less commonly diesel and even some on lpg (aka propane) ! Some farmers have generators that can attach to tractors.

If you have not got one, and you want to get one, here is a list of somethings you might want to consider:

a) If you think you need to store petrol, remember it is dangerous obviously. Less obviously you should know it doesn't last for ever (especially the "eco" varieties) and this needs to be thought through carefully (get correct grades and add suitable fuel-preservatives). Use steel Jerry cans and regularly replace the seals to keep them airtight and replace the stored and preserved fuel every two years max. If its not preserved, every year.

b) Generators are noisy so if you need to use it, everyone will know you are doing so. Plan accordingly. There are exceptions that are quiet but they are expensive.

c) Manufacturers lie about the power output - especially at the cheaper end of the market. Assume they are only 75%-85% of the claimed power.

d) Some generators can vary the engine speed based on load, this making more economical use of your fuel supply. These are equipped with inverters that manage this process. If you can get these they are a good option and the quality of the electricity they generate is superior to generators that use automatic voltage regulators to manage the generation (i.e. the cheaper kind).

e) If you are buying a bigger generator (say over 4000Watts ) and plan to use them a lot, consider ensuring the generator (the bit that makes the electricity that is attached to the engine) is of a brushless design - and consider splashing out for a diesel engine version. Diesel is substantially safer to store, longer lived when preserved properly and more energy dense than petrol.

Anchor..

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Anchor (here)
I'm in Rural NSW and everyone in their right mind out here has generator, petrol usually or less commonly diesel and even some on lpg (aka propane) ! Some farmers have generators that can attach to tractors.

If you have not got one, and you want to get one, here is a list of somethings you might want to consider:

a) If you think you need to store petrol, remember it is dangerous obviously. Less obviously you should know it doesn't last for ever (especially the "eco" varieties) and this needs to be thought through carefully (get correct grades and add suitable fuel-preservatives). Use steel Jerry cans and regularly replace the seals to keep them airtight and replace the stored and preserved fuel every two years max. If its not preserved, every year.

b) Generators are noisy so if you need to use it, everyone will know you are doing so. Plan accordingly. There are exceptions that are quiet but they are expensive.

c) Manufacturers lie about the power output - especially at the cheaper end of the market. Assume they are only 75%-85% of the claimed power.

d) Some generators can vary the engine speed based on load, this making more economical use of your fuel supply. These are equipped with inverters that manage this process. If you can get these they are a good option and the quality of the electricity they generate is superior to generators that use automatic voltage regulators to manage the generation (i.e. the cheaper kind).

e) If you are buying a bigger generator (say over 4000Watts ) and plan to use them a lot, consider ensuring the generator (the bit that makes the electricity that is attached to the engine) is of a brushless design - and consider splashing out for a diesel engine version. Diesel is substantially safer to store, longer lived when preserved properly and more energy dense than petrol.

Anchor..

With this solar system I built I almost don't have a need for a generator. (For what I run and for my personal and specific needs).

If I upgrade my system to split phase (which I'm going to) I'll be able to run my well pump. If my well pump was 120vt I could actually run it with the system I have now. I'm trying to see if I can get someone to swap my well pump over to 120vt.

The only real reason I have a generator right now is to actually run my well pump in a total grid down situation and to also charge my battery bank storage rack in a total grid down situation if they become critically low due to a week or so with absolutely no sunshine.

I suppose everyone's situation is different and unique when it comes to a grid down situation, but, I know fuel would eventually run out fast for me so I'm trying to set up so I can rely only on solar power. (I'm almost there!)

Right now I'm trying to find a decent radio so I can find out whats going on in a grid down situation. The radio I did have recently croaked and ended up in the trash.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Anchor (here)
I'm in Rural NSW and everyone in their right mind out here has generator, petrol usually or less commonly diesel and even some on lpg (aka propane) ! Some farmers have generators that can attach to tractors.

If you have not got one, and you want to get one, here is a list of somethings you might want to consider:

a) If you think you need to store petrol, remember it is dangerous obviously. Less obviously you should know it doesn't last for ever (especially the "eco" varieties) and this needs to be thought through carefully (get correct grades and add suitable fuel-preservatives). Use steel Jerry cans and regularly replace the seals to keep them airtight and replace the stored and preserved fuel every two years max. If its not preserved, every year.

b) Generators are noisy so if you need to use it, everyone will know you are doing so. Plan accordingly. There are exceptions that are quiet but they are expensive.

c) Manufacturers lie about the power output - especially at the cheaper end of the market. Assume they are only 75%-85% of the claimed power.

d) Some generators can vary the engine speed based on load, this making more economical use of your fuel supply. These are equipped with inverters that manage this process. If you can get these they are a good option and the quality of the electricity they generate is superior to generators that use automatic voltage regulators to manage the generation (i.e. the cheaper kind).

e) If you are buying a bigger generator (say over 4000Watts ) and plan to use them a lot, consider ensuring the generator (the bit that makes the electricity that is attached to the engine) is of a brushless design - and consider splashing out for a diesel engine version. Diesel is substantially safer to store, longer lived when preserved properly and more energy dense than petrol.

Anchor..

Yes, all excellent advice, and I endorse every word.

Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
Anyway, thanks Bill, your petrol generator looks like a beauty!

Yes, I'm delighted with it. It's very small (1700 watts) as generators go, but I don't need a more powerful one.

If there was an extended period of blackout (several days or more) I'd just connect and cycle my fridge-freezer at the warmest setting for short periods, with everything else turned off. My modest little machine could happily cope with that.

Generators, like cars with different size engines, consume fuel at different rates. Mine uses 0.9 liters/hour when it's working at max capacity, and because I rarely stress it it's more economical than that. A 4000 watt generator (e.g.) would be far more thirsty.

[meat suit]

I am looking at the Hyundai 8000 series diesel generators.
6kw/1 litre diesel per hour. £1500 approx
It would run probably run on heating oil with a splash of engine oil added at a push.
And its also possible to simply make your own diesel by distilling plastic... Have a look youtube for videos😁

[Abondance]

I have already been without a refrigerator for several weeks. As it was winter, I took the option of putting fragile foods in a simple cooler, which I kept outside.
But here is a technique of fridge without electricity, made very simply with large terracotta pots and sand that we soak in water. Natural evaporation will create a refreshing effect that at least allows to preserve vegetables.

A cool room like a cellar can keep many other things. My grandparents did not always have a refrigerator, and yet they kept cheese without problem. It is more problematic for meat, obviously, than it would have to be salted, dried or smoked. But you can do without a refrigerator even for an extended period. It would be more annoying to have to do all my laundry by hand! I have good old oil lamps for light, gas in quantity for the kitchen, wood for heating, it is especially missing a system to charge the computer, because I already charge the phone on the car cigarette lighter if needed...


https://www.mieux-vivre-autrement.co...fabriquer.html

[Anchor]

Posted by meat suit (here)
I am looking at the Hyundai 8000 series diesel generators.
6kw/1 litre diesel per hour.

I forgot something, and this just reminded me.

Diesel engines for generators are designed such that they need to run at quite a high a minimum load[*] (usually 60% of total capacity depending on model) otherwise the cylinders get a thing called glazing leading to premature engine failure. If you want the engine to last, then you should take this into account when sizing up your choices.

The way I solved this in my situation, is I only run the Diesel generator at high load for a single purpose: it is a 4kw single cylinder Yanmar diesel that I only use if there is and has been no sun for over a day and I need to refill my batteries, so it is run at 80-100% load until I get to the target state of charge, then a few minutes short no load cool down before turning off as mine is air-cooled and that is what the instructions said to do

For less demanding generation needs I use a little super-quiet "suitcase" petrol generator I have had for 12 years and I service it every year. The carburetor has needed work on one occasion.


--
[*] example reference: https://www.criticalpowersupplies.co...ad-or-no-load/

[meat suit]

Posted by Anchor (here)

Posted by meat suit (here)
I am looking at the Hyundai 8000 series diesel generators.
6kw/1 litre diesel per hour.

I forgot something, and this just reminded me.

Diesel engines for generators are designed such that they need to run at quite a high a minimum load[*] (usually 60% of total capacity depending on model) otherwise the cylinders get a thing called glazing leading to premature engine failure. If you want the engine to last, then you should take this into account when sizing up your choices.

The way I solved this in my situation, is I only run the Diesel generator at high load for a single purpose: it is a 4kw single cylinder Yanmar diesel that I only use if there is and has been no sun for over a day and I need to refill my batteries, so it is run at 80-100% load until I get to the target state of charge, then a few minutes short no load cool down before turning off as mine is air-cooled and that is what the instructions said to do

For less demanding generation needs I use a little super-quiet "suitcase" petrol generator I have had for 12 years and I service it every year. The carburetor has needed work on one occasion.


--
[*] example reference: https://www.criticalpowersupplies.co...ad-or-no-load/

Wow, thanks, I wasnt aware of that 60% minimum load requiremnt for diesel gennies..

I am going off grid in 3 months and have a 4kw table saw to power as the highest load.
But I will also invest in a solar system with battery storage. Havent decided yet what size and components.

But a definate part of my setup will be a hot water storage tank with one or two 3k immersion elements.
This is a cheap and useful addition to any solar system, as any excess power generated by the solar planels can be stored as heat once the batteries (the expensive part) are full.

So, I should always be able to add load a 6kw diesel generator with the hot water tank.

Thanks for that very good hint😁

[Anchor]

Meat suit,

Sorry to keep on at you, but this pedantry might save you hassle unless my assumption is wrong.

Assumption: That is a large table saw 4kw = 5.3hp.

Did you quote starting/peak load or running load?

If you meant peak or starting load we are done here - sorry to trouble you.

If you meant it really is that big of a saw and it really is rated with 5.3 hp motor, your generator will be under-powered. Starting an induction motor can often require 2-3 times the power as the running load. The larger the generator the more rotational inertia they have which can lower this ratio a bit for smaller motors - but the voltage will still drop and cause issues. If you get this wrong best case you blow a fuse or stall the generator; worst case you can wreck one or both of either the saw motor or the generator.

One possible way out of this is on the solar / batteries side for the inverter select a something around 5kw with a "power assist" function (for example Victron Multiplus) - when the generator is running it supplies the inverter and is passed through to the output of the inverter and drives your loads. If there is difficult load connected to the inverter which goes over the configured limits of the input, it allows the battery power to be temporarily consumed, inverted into AC and combined with the generators to get over the hump. This is actually how my set-up is configured.

Given this and the other constraints around min load, it may be cheaper in the long run to get a much bigger petrol generator.

[ https://calculattor.com/generator-si...ng-calculator/ ]

Anchor..

[meat suit]

Wow, glad to have your advice🙏
4kw is the running load I think, I ll crawl underneath and have a look ..
Diesel generators seem to get really expensive over 6kwh capacity.. so I will explore the inverter/battery help that you mentioned. I intend to have a biggish solar system anyway.

Interesting how one can get cought out buying the wrong stuff not knowing whats what..

I keep having to explain to my queen that she cant run the washing machine or hoover off a single solar panel🤣

[Anchor]

If I can help more I will.

To reiterate: Diesel generators are designed for long running (several hrs at a time), consistent, 60%-100% heavy loads and when you have those conditions, they are unbeatable. When you don't have those, they are a huge hassle and I would not get one.

Everyone sizing their own solar system always underestimates the requirements. Ask me how I know, lol. I got my farm in late 2009 and I have wasted a lot of time and money getting my system working well. I only just got to the point where I can give the utility the middle finger if I need to - and be still be Ok all year round.

Winter on solar is a big challenge unless you are near the equator.

[meat suit]

Thank you Anchor☺️

So maybe I dont want a diesel generator but a petrol one, that I can fire up for a couple hours at a time when running the table saw or washing machine.
It can also top up the solar batteries when required.

My solar system will have to power fridges/freezers on a permanent basis and otherwise just lights and low power stuff.

Hell, maybe I look into putting a petrol engine on my table saw..🤙😁

Anchor, what solar batteries would you recommend?
I hear some people are amorous with old fashioned lead/acid..