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Thread: The Electric Car Scam

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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Electric Car Scam

    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    Default Re: The Electric Car Scam

    I heard once that they had to close down a major freeway in Los Angeles because one of these vehicles caught fire... It also doesn't take into account the toxic effects it has on the environment... The lithium mining is really sad... Really someone who has some time, should show what is happening in these mines...

    I am sure there is a better way to get cheap and effecient, and clean energy for the world, but this isn't it... It is just another way to damage the world and give us the illusion we are helping our own cause, while someone else makes a killing in profits...

    What ever happened to hydrogen vehicles, or free energy?

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Electric Car Scam

    An excoriating article from Epoch Times, reposted on Zero Hedge. I'll copy the whole thing, as (if I dare say!) it's rather fun to read. It's about electric cars in general, not only about Hertz's terrible market decision.
    The Hertz Meltdown Reveals Scale of the EV Debacle

    The Biden administration’s Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has revealed its ambition: to phase out gas-powered cars in favor of electric vehicles (EVs). Incredibly, this announcement comes as we are flooded with overwhelming evidence that EVs are a market loser.

    Indeed, the artificial boom and then meltdown of the EV market is a modern industrial calamity. It was created by government, social media, wild disease frenzy, far-flung thinking, and the irrational chasing of utopia, followed by a rude awakening by facts and reality.

    CEO of Hertz Stephen Scherr has been booted out due to a vast purchase of an EV fleet that consumers didn’t even want to rent. The company has now been forced to sell them at a deep discount and in a market where consumers are not particularly interested.

    Looking back, however, Scherr’s decision to bet everything on an EV boom was a disaster that was highly praised at the time. Only last year, the company bragged: “This morning, [Hertz] was recognized by The White House for our efforts to expand access to electric vehicles across the country. Demand for EV rentals is growing and we’re here to help our customers electrify their travels.”

    Pleasing the Biden administration is not the same as pleasing consumers. The demand turned south fast in a real-world test of drivers. But that’s not all. Hertz could not make their investment pay no matter what they did.

    The key issues with EVs are as follows.
    • The cost upfront is much higher.
    • Financing charges are higher.
    • They depreciate at a higher rate than internal combustion cars.
    • The insurance is more expensive, by at least 25 percent.
    • Repairs are much more expensive, if you can get them done at all, and take longer.
    • Tires are more expensive and don’t last as long because the car is so heavy.
    • Refueling is not easy and missteps here can have nightmarish consequences.
    • They are more likely to catch fire.
    Any motor vehicle accident that impacts the battery can lead to repairs higher than the value of the car, that is totaled with so much as a scratch.

    To top it all over, there is no longer any financial advantage to the driver. It now costs slightly more to charge under many conditions than to refuel with gasoline.

    The novelty of driving one for a day wears off after the first day. At first they seem like the greatest thing that ever happened, like an iPhone with wheels. That’s great but then the problems crop up and people start to realize that they are fine for urban commutes with home chargers and not much else.

    They make truly terrible rentals. Obviously, under rental conditions, people have to use charging stations rather than a charger in the garage. That means spending part of your vacation figuring out where to find one.

    Not all are superchargers, and if it is a regular charger, you are looking at an overnight wait. If you do find a station with fast chargers, you might have to wait in line. They might not work. You waste hours doing this. And you likely have to reroute your trip even to find a station without any certainty that you will get a spot with a functioning charger.

    No one wants to do this. When you rent a car, all you want is a car that goes the distance. And typically car rentals are for going some distance else you would just take a taxi or a Lyft from the airport. You might need to drive several hours. And god forbid that this takes place in cold weather because that can reduce your mileage by half. Your whole trip will be ruined.

    Why in the world would anyone want to rent one of these things rather than a gas-powered car? You might be better off with a horse and carriage.

    Did Hertz think of any of this before they spent $250M on a fleet? Nope. They were just doing the fashionable thing.

    Again, I’m not knocking some uses for EVs. If you think of them as enclosed and souped up golf carts, you get the idea. They can be wonderful for certain urban environments so long as you don’t overuse them and have to get them repaired. You also have to be in a financial position to afford the higher costs all around, from financing to insurance to repairs and tires. And you have to be prepared to take a big loss on resale, if you can even manage to find a buyer.

    There is money to be made in this market, as there is with any niche good or service. But that is covered with normal market conditions, not massive subsidies, mandates, and frenzies. The Hertz case proves it. It is a perfect clinical trial of these machines. We now know the answer. They cannot work.

    And thank goodness because if the United States truly switched over in a big way from gas to electric, we would face other disasters. The wear and tear on roads is much worse due to the sheer weight of the cars, which is 25 percent higher than gas cars on average. Many parking garages would have to be rebuilt with new reinforcements.

    Then there is the strain on the grid. There is no way the industry could handle the demand. Brownouts and travel restrictions would be essential. All this would pave the way toward 15-minute cities.

    Please remember how this craze began. It was lockdown time and automakers suspended orders for parts and chips. They stopped cranking out cars. When demand intensified, the chip makers had moved on to other things, so delays escalated. By the summer of 2021, there was a general panic about a growing car shortage.

    At that point, consumers were willing to buy anything on the lot, among which EVs. The sales records were completely misinterpreted. The manufacturers made huge investments, and the car rental companies did too. But the product had not really been tested. That test is taking place now, and the EVs are completely failing.

    We keep hearing that this is still too early, that development has a long way to go, that more charging stations are coming, that manufacturers are going to overcome all these problems in time. All of this sounds very similar to what the producers of mRNA shots say: this was just a trial run and they will get better the next time.

    Maybe but doubtful. There is a huge problem in the investment market right now. EVs are massive losers. Consumers, manufacturers, car rental companies, and every other market in which these lemons are made available are running away from them as fast as possible. They had their day in the sun and got fried.

    There is another problem: surveillance. The car can be tracked anywhere and shut off at a moment’s notice. This is obviously a great thing if the government desires a social-credit system of citizens control.

    At this point, it is doubtful that the industry can recover. And yet, even now, the Biden administration is planning more subsidies, more mandates, more restrictions on gas cars, and digging themselves even deeper into this hole.

    “The Biden administration on Wednesday issued one of the most significant climate regulations in the nation’s history, a rule designed to ensure that the majority of new passenger cars and light trucks sold in the United States are all-electric or hybrids by 2032,” reports the New York Times.

    You simply cannot make up nuttier stuff. At some point, we could see manufacturers making the cars just to satisfy the central planners but otherwise preparing to chop them up and throw them out. They would likely be happy to dump them in the ocean but that isn’t allowed either.

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    Default Re: The Electric Car Scam

    The reason that such things happen, I believe, is because (under modern - management led - bureaucratic systems) the managers who "implemented" these changes that damaged Hertz have no interest in the long-term (or even medium term) thriving of the company they work for.

    Those responsible will very likely have already moved on to other corporations - as experienced in managing sustainability, indeed almost certainly promoted for their successful role in transforming Hertz towards UN environmental goals etc.

    I have seen closely analogous situations in medicine, science and academia. Individuals make big changes that save money or make revenue or attract favourable publicity in the short term; then they move up the ladder and away from the problems that emerge a few years later.

    In one instance, such an individual went to the very top of the medical profession advancing every couple of years, big money, high status, knighthood etc - leaving behind a trail of consistent damage and chaos, everywhere he had worked and led. The same kind of thing happens all the way down.

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    Default Re: The Electric Car Scam

    John

    great video. These types of people that are part of panels are such a joke. All dead, all already having a firm stance and position . None of them ever animated, responsive, have any interest or expression of surprise, of learning anything. None ever interacting . They are under orders as to how to be. they remind me of the obstacles on the beaches of normandy trying to hold back the forces.

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    Default Re: The Electric Car Scam

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    An excoriating article from Epoch Times, reposted on Zero Hedge. I'll copy the whole thing, as (if I dare say!) it's rather fun to read. It's about electric cars in general, not only about Hertz's terrible market decision.
    .
    .
    .

    You simply cannot make up nuttier stuff. At some point, we could see manufacturers making the cars just to satisfy the central planners but otherwise preparing to chop them up and throw them out. They would likely be happy to dump them in the ocean but that isn’t allowed either.
    According to reports by C-Milk and Serpentza (American Matt and South African Winston, both of whom lived a decade in China and exited with Chinese wives) on their ‘tube chan The China Show (formerly ADVChina), there are huge parking fields in China filled with brand new EVs, registered (licence plates) but never sold. Another show was about electric bicycles, same scam deal where the companies get paid up front, showed drone vid of hills of tossed product (not sure if new or rental failure or what), some piles 20 ft /6+ m high.

    Related, my city Edmonton Canada is suing the manufacturer of their failed trial fleet of EV transit buses. 60+ $m.
    Last edited by Johnnycomelately; 24th March 2024 at 08:16.

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    Default Re: The Electric Car Scam

    The stream of updates from the business world are useful indicators of which way the winds are blowing.

    It seems Berkshire Hathaway have seen the writing on the wall for some time, having sold 60% of their BYD stock, the Chinese electric battery company, with Charlie Munger once referring to BYD as one of his "best ever investments" and Warren Buffet once stating his favorite holding period as "forever."

    They cite not wishing to compete with Elon Musk's Tesla company as a primary reason, which I don't believe for one second. I think it's because not being engineers, they didn't fully appreciate the problems with the batteries (fire protection, hugely expensive to replace/repair), and a whole swathe of other real-world issues as very ably described in the above Zero Hedge article.

    https://markets.businessinsider.com/...munger-2023-11
    Last edited by happyuk; 24th March 2024 at 12:06.

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    Default Re: The Electric Car Scam

    I live close to a electricity distribution company. They had a solar powered EV charging station on their parking lot.
    But they now changed it to charging EV's from the grid. The parking spaces meant for charging EV's are usually empty.

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    Default Re: The Electric Car Scam



    Quote When you hear the phrase “first electric cars,” you might think of a Tesla or a Nissan Leaf. But the first electric cars in the United States were built before 1900, lived on for another three decades, then ceased production in the 1920s. For electric vehicles to succeed today, it's important to consider why they caught on more than a century ago, and why they disappeared.
    Early History

    While battery-powered carriages were invented in 1830s, it took decades for a rechargeable electric battery to be mounted on a horseless carriage.1 In the early 1890s, the technology had reached a level of sophistication that individual inventors were building electric vehicles that were safer and cleaner than coal- or oil-fired steam-engine vehicles (which tended to explode), required less space on the roads than horse-drawn carriages, and left behind no manure.

    America's first gasoline car, the Duryea Machine, was introduced at nearly the same time (1893), but electric vehicles were often judged to be a superior technology. Electric vehicles turned on instantly; gasoline cars required cranking. Electrics were easy to operate, with no need to shift gears; gasoline cars rumbled, stalled, backfired, and broke down more easily.

    In an 1895 “motocycle” race, the Electrobat was awarded a gold medal for its “safety, ease of control, absence of noise, vibration, heat, and odor, cleanliness and general excellence of designs and workmanship”—even though a Duryea Machine won the race.

    Electric vehicles were the first cars to give people a sense of personal autonomy, especially women, who could own and drive a car decades before they could vote.

    Electric vehicles were “a symbol and vehicle of female emancipation,” the original freedom machines, and car manufacturers promoted vehicles like the Detroit Electric (pictured at the top of the page) “to the well-bred woman” as a car where “she can preserve her toilet immaculate, her coiffure intact.” Coiffure intact or not, suffragists drove electric vehicles to their rallies.

    As the EV market grew, manufacturing companies took the place of individual inventors. Among the first were the Riker Electric Motor Company, formed in 1889, and the Electric Carriage & Wagon Company, which introduced a series of electric taxis in New York City in 1896.

    By the end of the century, dozens of well-funded companies had been founded. Electric vehicles could even be purchased from Montgomery Ward catalogs. Companies were producing delivery wagons, taxis, phaetons, broughams, stanhopes, one-, two-, and four-seaters with ranges from 35 to 88 miles and speeds of up to 15 miles per hour.4 (The world record for any vehicle in 1898 was 39 mph.)5
    Why Electric Vehicles Disappeared

    By 1900, the electric vehicle industry was consolidating and growing as it improved the efficiency, power, and range of its vehicles. For some 20 years, the triumph of the gasoline car was by no means inevitable.

    Still, challenges lay ahead, similar to those that have slowed the adoption of electric vehicles in the United States today. Here are some of the major roadblocks.

    An Inadequate Charging Network

    Electric vehicles were limited to places that had electricity: cities. Thomas Edison opened the first electric power plant in 1880's, but by 1932, only 10% of rural America was electrified—rural electrification efforts would not come until later in the 1930s.6 Electrification was a patchwork of competing systems, voltages, and frequencies, with direct current (DC) in cities and alternating current (AC) in the countryside (where it existed). It was developed by private companies, with little federal planning or oversight until the New Deal.

    Advertising helped create a culture of gasoline cars. Car manufacturers “devised a kind of 'separate spheres' ideology about automobiles: gas cars were for men, electric cars were for women.”

    Women were able to cross gender boundaries and adopt “men's cars,” like racer Dorothy Levitt, who drove a gas-powered De Dion at speeds up to 91 mph.9 But for men, driving an electric vehicle was a sign of weakness. The Argo company might have advertised its 1912 electric vehicle as “a woman's car that any man is proud to drive,” but most men did not want to drive “a woman's car," and the slow-to-die association of electric vehicles with weakness set in.

    Henry Ford's Model T of 1908 may have cost a third less than an electric car, but people still needed to easily fuel it.1 John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil Company gave gas cars a “practically unlimited area of operation, as the gasoline with which it is operated may be bought at any country drug store,” as the New York Times opined in 1900.11

    Once the gas car became more affordable, the electric vehicle was doomed. The nail in the coffin came when gasoline cars adopted the electric ignition in 1912, which made starting the vehicle easy.12 By the late-1920s, electric vehicle manufacturing was a dead industry.
    https://www.treehugger.com/history-o...iumphs-5193009

    Quote 1800: Italian physicist Alessandro Volta develops the voltaic pile, which is able to store electricity chemically. We now call the voltaic pile a battery.

    1821: English chemist Michael Faraday invents an electric motor driven by a voltaic pile.

    1832-39: Scotsman Robert Anderson develops a battery-powered horseless carriage with a non-rechargeable battery.

    1835: Dutch chemist Sibrandus Stratingh develops an “electromagnetic carriage,” one of which is on display in Groningen, the Netherlands—the oldest electric vehicle still in existence.

    1839: Scottish chemist man Robert Davidson creates an electric locomotive that could travel 4 mph, far slower than steam locomotives of the day.

    1859: The lead-acid battery is invented by French physicist Gaston Planté

    1881: French inventor Gustave Trouve exhibits a three-wheeled vehicle with a rechargeable battery at the International Exhibition of Electricity in Paris.

    1882: English professor William Ayrton and Irish professor John Perry invent a three-wheeled electric vehicle that could travel up to 25 miles at 9 mph. In the same year, English financier Paul Bedford Elwell and engineer Thomas Parker begin manufacturing rechargeable batteries.

    1887: Irishman John Boyd Dunlop's pneumatic tires make EVs more comfortable to ride.

    1890: William Morrison of Des Moines, Iowa, introduced a six-passenger electric wagon, capable of achieving a maximum speed of 14 mph, compared to 5 mph speeds by the standard stagecoach.

    1897: The Morris and Salom Electric Carriage and Wagon Company runs a small fleet of electric cabs in New York City, driven by “lightning cabbies.” Electric cab companies also take off in Paris and London.

    1898: Gaston de Chasseloup-Laubat sets the first electric vehicle record for fastest land vehicle in the world at 39.24 mph.

    1899: The Baker Motor Vehicle Company is founded. Thomas Edison was an early customer.


    In the early 20th century, it seemed that electric vehicles would dominate the market, as demand for them continued to rise. However, the mass-produced Model T undercut the price of EVs by more than half.

    The energy density of gasoline was far greater than that of a chemical battery. Once gasoline became cheap and roads began to be paved, the internal combustion engine took over the roads.

    By 1920, there were hardly any horses pulling carriages on roadways, and by 1935, there were no more electric vehicles either.

    1900: Ferdinand Porsche introduces the Lohner-Porsche Mixte, the world's first petrol-electric hybrid vehicle, followed soon by imitators. At this point, a third of all vehicles on American roads were electric.1

    1901: British Queen Alexandra purchases a Columbia Electric car for driving around the grounds of Sandringham House.

    1902: The Studebaker Brothers Manufacturing Company launches a range of electric cars and trucks. Thomas Edison is his second customer.

    1903: Thomas Edison creates a nickel-iron battery for his electric vehicles, which could be charged twice as fast as the lead-acid battery.

    1906: The Belgian Auto-Mixte hybrid vehicle introduces regenerative braking.

    1908: Henry Ford introduces the Model T. 15,000 orders are placed within the first year.

    1912: Charles Kettering invents the electric starter, making gasoline-powered cars easier to start.

    1913: Studebaker announces the end of its electric vehicle production.

    1914: The Detroit Electric car is introduced, using Thomas Edison's nickel-iron battery, with a claimed range of 80 miles. The vehicle so impresses Henry Ford that he buys one for Thomas Edison and considers developing his own low-cost electric vehicles.

    1920s: Gasoline prices plummet with the discovery of oil in Texas oil. Gasoline stations appear alongside a paved road system, and the development of electric or hybrid vehicles essentially stops.


    The 1901 Columbia Electric car
    Last edited by Ewan; 24th March 2024 at 14:44.

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    Default Re: The Electric Car Scam

    Bumping this thread by copying a very interesting post by Ravenlocke on the Breaking News thread.

    ~~~
    https://x.com/ElectrekCo/status/1868742551479455836



    https://electrek.co/2024/12/16/tesla...side-new-cars/

    Tesla is having major issue with its self-driving computer inside new cars

    Brand-new Tesla vehicles are experiencing self-driving computer failures, which are resulting in significant problems. Inside sources say that the problem is contributing to overwhelming Tesla’s service.

    Over the last few weeks, Electrek has received several reports from new Tesla buyers claiming computer failures on brand-new cars.

    We have been investigating the problem, and based on insider sources and documents that we obtained, we can now explain the issue in more detail.

    The problem is linked to a new version of Tesla’s HW4 (sometimes called AI4) onboard self-driving computer. Internally, some refer to the new version as AI4.1. The computers are short-circuiting. The cause is still being investigated, but one source told Electrek that one of the possible causes is the low-voltage battery short-circuiting the computer during the camera calibration process.

    Tesla drivers are reporting computer failures after driving off with their brand-new cars over just the first few tens to hundreds of miles. Wide-ranging features powered by the computer, like active safety features, cameras, and even GPS, navigation, and range estimations, fail to work.

    Insider sources told Electrek that the problem is quite wide-ranging. It affects vehicles built over the last few months with the new computer.

    Two sources said that Tesla is currently receiving a high number of complaints about this issue, and it has yet to release a service bulletin about it. One source said that Tesla service is being told to play down any safety concerns related to this problem to avoid people believing their brand-new cars are not drivable.

    The issue arose at the end of the year when Tesla is trying to deliver a record number of vehicles to avoid its whole year down in deliveries – a first in a decade.

    It’s unclear if Tesla reported the issue to NHTSA despite the fact that the broken rear-view camera goes against federal safety regulations, which should force a recall.

    At the moment, the main remedy being discussed is a computer replacement, but Tesla is also looking to push a software patch to help temporarily.

    Tesla service is currently being overwhelmed by the issue, and Tesla is pushing service appointments to next year.

    Electrek’s Take

    I am not hating here. This is a significant issue that customers should be aware of. It is significant enough that several inside sources decided to reach out about it, and many customers are complaining about the issue.

    It is worrying that Tesla has not issued a service bulletin about it, and Tesla service is told to downplay the problem at the end of the quarter.

    I would expect NHTSA to issue a recall here, and Tesla could be in trouble for downplaying an issue that has been going on for weeks, but I don’t think that’s going to happen considering what the Trump transition team, in which Tesla CEO Elon Musk is greatly involved, is signaling to the federal agency.

    We are in for an interesting few years regarding auto safety in the US.

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