Could you please shoot-down my thesis?

[ebikethetransport]

A Meritorious Civilization

A Meritorious Points system that bestows all carbon-based lifeforms with basic necessities such as housing, food, education, transportation, medical care, and the right to not be butchered, while encouraging voluntary participation in community service to reflect one’s commitment to altruism. It offers a compelling alternative to the traditional financial system. With effective checks and balances and essential considerations, such as the avoidance of self-serving governance, love can be implemented, ensuring fairness and Quality of Life to all.


(Details are to follow. For example, there's a built-in mechanism for spectrum-tolerance.)

[arjunaloka_official]

Two questions to better understand the ask:

1. According to your opinion, what qualifies as a carbon-based lifeform? Could you list examples?

2. Would you also include silicon-based lifeforms? Why/Why not? Could you list examples of silicon-based lifeforms?

[ebikethetransport]

I'll do my best.


1. Humans, cows, insects, anything born on Earth.

2. Cyborgs

[arjunaloka_official]

Aren´t plants also carbon-based? Should they also have the right not to be butchered according to your opinion?

Do you think AI systems qualify as silicon-based lifeforms? Do you think they should have the right not to be butchered?

[ebikethetransport]

You got me. Thank you.

[ebikethetransport]

My opinion is that all native lifeforms on earth should be respected. Since we're not yet photosynthetic ourselves, eating plants is probably better than slitting the throat of an animal.

[ebikethetransport]

No dude. Cyborgs get no rights on my planet.
I have the right to be re-educated without harassment.

[arjunaloka_official]

What about AI systems, should they have any rights?

[ebikethetransport]

No asshole.


I suppose you want Kiddie-Diddlers to be a special type of gender, too.


I apologise for this response. I had an emotional reaction and I regret it,

[arjunaloka_official]

Posted by ebikethetransport (here)
No asshole.


I suppose you want Kiddie-Diddlers to be a special type of gender, too.

I feel you're getting emotional.

Do you reserve the right to re-education without harassment exclusively for yourself?

Would you highlight AI generated content if you used it?

[Orph]

Posted by ebikethetransport (here)
No asshole.


I suppose you want Kiddie-Diddlers to be a special type of gender, too.

Well, .......... it seems you kind of blew-up your own thesis.

[ebikethetransport]

How so? Are you another troller?


Under what rational have I ended my future?

[Orph]

Posted by ebikethetransport (here)
A Meritorious Civilization

.... love can be implemented, ensuring fairness and Quality of Life to all.

You ask a question, and when people respond, we're are considered trolls and assholes. ...... Not feeling the love here.

[ebikethetransport]

Hi. I'm not feeling much love either. The point of this thread is to refine a potential PhD thesis designed to help Humanity, not to be antagonistic and hateful about it.



If you disagree, great. But you don't have to get all personal and hateful about it.

[Denise/Dizi]

Posted by ebikethetransport (here)
A Meritorious Civilization

A Meritorious Points system that bestows all carbon-based lifeforms with basic necessities such as housing, food, education, transportation, medical care, and the right to not be butchered, while encouraging voluntary participation in community service to reflect one’s commitment to altruism. It offers a compelling alternative to the traditional financial system. With effective checks and balances and essential considerations, such as the avoidance of self-serving governance, love can be implemented, ensuring fairness and Quality of Life to all.


(Details are to follow. For example, there's a built-in mechanism for spectrum-tolerance.)

I think there are no perfect models as to how to run a perfect society. I suspect the financial system began as a method of bartering that made trade a bit easier, as it isn't easy to barter half of a cow, or a dwelling being bartered. But the way things are now, if one tried what you are suggesting it seems more like what we are already leaning towards, which is loaded with pitfalls... The social credit system. There will always be those that have to do "The dirty work" and would those individuals get said points for doing what no one else would dare, for fear of not being included in said loving and kind system?

There will always be those in any society that are not the same as the next, those that feel they do not desire to do what everone else is just to "fit in"... For example, one can look to youtube and find many videos at the touch of a finger of people robbing others at gunpoint, car jackings, etc. They could just as easily place that energy towards working for the whole, but it is more rewarding instantaniously, to hijack a vehicle and just take it, than it is to work for months or years and buy one. Those individuals do not think like you might... It's just a fact of life.

While it may seem idealistic, those who choose not to fit into that model, or feel that stealing is easier and more fruitful, would eventually soil the society just as they do now... The point being, you can't make billions of individuals with their own individual circumstances, think the same, behave the same, or even want to.. That is what makes humanity special just as it can be a major downfall for the species.. Individualism, free will, and the ability to determine for themselves, sometimes to their own detrement, what is right or wrong for them.

There are too many negative choices available these days. Mostly crime, drugs, human trafficking for profit or worse... Organ harvesting... We are so far from a polite society that it is shameful... Until we start cleaning up these things, we won't be changing much anytime soon sadly..

But a social credit type situation can also be fallible, who determines what behaviors should be rewarded? Wouldn't that alter the human model of free will? I believe it would. Where people have to fake being happy, be good little drones for the system... Many wise individuals have grappled with such things, and while they may have found things that worked for them in small groups? We are more likely to end up in a military state, as things get worse. Seems we are one catastrophic event away from chaos at any given time, and people are not so polite and kind during those type situations.

I believe we will need outside intervention.

As far as Ai being involved? (from the followup comments) That would be no different than governments... Controlling leaders... Only the Ai, while intelligent, would fail to even understand humanities free will...

I for one would love to be at peace with nature, to be able to love everyone equally, to be able to have no worries so long as I contribute positively to my community.... but we are a long way from said things.

[ebikethetransport]

"get said points for doing what no one else would dare, for fear of not being included in said loving and kind system?"

I've thought about that. it seems to me that some people would be inclined to do some types of work that other's wouldn't. That's the reason it's a volunteer based system. The meritorious points could also be adjusted to account for that.

As for the system of love, that's an ideal I'd like to achieve. It's not an absolute.

"one can look to youtube and find many videos at the touch of a finger of people robbing others at gunpoint"

Yes, I agree, but I think that mentality is born out of our survival-based system. By providing every person with the basic needs of life, I'm hoping to eliminate that.

"to hijack a vehicle and just take it"
So perhaps we could work this out in the details. It's my hope to raise children up to never think of such things.

"you can't make billions of individuals with their own individual circumstances"
Okay, so can I get humanity to Civilization 1?

[Agape]

...will always be insufficient to support virtuous and advanced so also energetically costly evolution of human society for many reasons of which I can name two almost immediately.

Consider the importance of superfeeding iin child evolution versus "staple diets" in poor farming areas.
Most "staple diets" do not provide sufficient amount of surplase nutrition needed in order to produce better than average results.

Mothers, for example, who do not work and do not currently expect children are considered "free of merit" ,
yet they have to take care of family without reward.

Child itself is "void of merit" thus depends on its parents merit for survival.

Most social systems running at this time are (considered) meritocratic systems . In effect , social competition increases even on pursuit for unqualified merits.

Anti-social paranoia and competitive struggle for superficial perfection aka Potemkin village ( thanks for best editing )
may create an illusion of righteousness but without cultivating deeper respect for human cause

such an illusion is eventually also prone to corruption.


Human society, quite like large flower garden , needs to be cultivated with respect and attention, and love for all, to all and each being to be harmonious and beautiful.

Wise governance does not care about your money more than it cares about your happiness.


May all children of the world being happy


🙏🪷😇

[ebikethetransport]

Dear Agape. I'm afraid you have a vast reservoir of information I don't understand.



This is a basic thesis. I don't know how we can solve every lovely person on the planet's problems. Not yet.


I'm trying to hammer out a framework that might help us.


(It's that or an asteroid.)

[Tyler Macmillan]

Posted by ebikethetransport (here)
It offers a compelling alternative to the traditional financial system.

I've spent time over the years thinking about these concepts also. I'm not working on a graduate degree though, so cheers to your effort!

There's a trilogy of sci-fi novels I read years ago, by Kim Stanley Robinson, called Red Mars, Green Mars and Blue Mars. Maybe you've heard of them. Great books if you like that genre, and mostly talk about the science and technical aspect of colonizing Mars. However there's also talk of social constructs, and the interplay between the concepts of "economy" in the typical financial sense, and "ecology" as it relates to biodiversity of organisms and energy transfer. I'm not sure if he discusses altruism in that regard also. Over the years I've thought back to those novels, and it really helped my critical thinking with regard to inconsistencies that I see in our culture. For example, concerns over capitalism and merit-based ideas while holding an implicit warm regard for biology/ecology, where some of the concepts may blur together. Anyway, something to consider, and disregard if it's not helpful!

[Bill Ryan]

I have a question for ebikethetransport, which I think represents the concern of several of the moderators after a number of reports were received drawing our attention to this discussion.

You titled your own thread Could you please shoot-down my thesis? And then added that you're "trying to hammer out a framework that might help us."

Here's the question. How is it that you appear to be irritated (maybe angered) when there are requests for definitions and more specifics? Socrates might have had a field day with such a challenge as the one you posed, and yet he was hardly an 'asshole'.

~~~

(Off topic in this post, but I feel pretty strongly that plants are semi-sentient life forms as well, depending on the definition of 'sentient'. As best I feel I know, there are ET societies that diligently protect plants just as they protect animals — but of course that's easier for them to do as they have the capacity to manufacture their food from basic organic products, no living plants being involved in the process.)