Posted by Artemesia
(here)
Posted by Bill Ryan
(here)
Posted by DNA
(here)
Hi Bill
My question is this.
I understand you knew Cathy Obrien?
I don't know if this is true.
My question is along the lines of how much you believe her story.
Thank you
No, I never actually knew Cathy O'Brien. I never met her, or had any communication with her.
I don't doubt that her story is true. The only question I have is that there's so much reconstructed dialog in her book, which as best I understand she presents as being an on-record account of events and interactions, that it strains one's belief that she could possibly be recalling it all so accurately and completely. (And not only conversations, but day-to-day events and many many incidents sometimes presented in the finest detail.)
I sometimes think back on significant events in my own life, as we all do. And with literally just two or maybe three exceptions, I can't remember the words that were said in any conversations at all, let alone exactly what I did every day. I could easily invent a lot of dialog for dramatic effect — but what was
actually said is all evaporated, lost and gone many years ago.
It is possible that she may have recalled it all in hypnotic regression, and had it all recorded. Maybe that was her source of all the detail... but if so, I'm not aware of that. (Maybe others know more?)
I sat on this for a bit and feel I am ready for my attempt at a cogent response.
I have not read Cathy's book but recently saw her film and also had some very poignant personal contact over email with her as I had shared news of my own efforts to 'go public' as a survivor of mind control.
So to be clear, I live with Dissociative Identity Disorder as I beleive does Cathy although I am not sure she states it like this, but this is what the structured personality systems coming out of government mind control projects are... we live with DID, and depending on where one is at in healing, it is on a spectrum of integration or continued dissociation.
So the short answer to your conundrum about how she would be able to remember a conversation from decades ago verbatim, by trying to compare it to your own experience of memory is... not going to get you anywhere useful. To use the Spock phrase from Star Trek, "its life Jim, but not as we know it."
Memory in a structured personality system that has been subjected to trauma since the youngest age when all neural pathways were first forming is a different thing than your experience of the world. All the pleasure/pain principles were hijacked and reversed, and purposeful miscuing from adults has been hardwired. So understanding that going in is important. Its not just apples and oranges. Its like hummus versus a Dorito chip. One is a recipe that is itself a complex creation (tahini alone is its own recipe) but in the end the idea is to have something nourishing for the body. A dorito was created with artificial ingredients whose only purpose was to be intensely craved and yet not only offer no nurtritional content, but be actively harmful to the body. So... there is just no comparison. One is food, one is not.
Your brain may store memory one way, but a government mind controlled mind that is in healing is working on processing on more than one level at once, on a spectrum between hummus (the healing path) and the Dorito life it was tortured to accept. That is overly simplified but hopefully descriptive.
Another big point to grasp... trauma memory is stored as PRESENT TENSE. For a survivor with multiple self aspects, there may be some parts that still do not know the trauma is over and they are still 'in' the scene where their first split/coming into existence was created. So its like living in a house (your mind/consciousness) where there are some rooms that are still active concentration camps with parts that are in current states of trauma.
To make it all more complicated, in more intense projects there were multiple parts created to each hold different aspects of the trauma memories. So a pain holding part, an emotional content holding part, a veridical memory part (facts like names, dates, places, etc), plus depending on how one was used there are going to be RECORDER parts whose job it was to memorize conversations exactly exact, for recall later. Remember Cathy was probably first generation Monarch, long before body recording devices were easily available. And plus that can be discovered. And she was working at high levels like Pentagon. Of course she would have spent hours and hours (mostly in psychic driving) or intense do or die scenarios where one HAD to remember the instruction sets given AND the correct sequences in order to survive..... this was how the recorder parts got really excellent at the memory storing. So yes, you may not remember a conversation last week in a restauraunt with friends, especially if you had a beer or two.
But for someone who has been forced to remember things or die, or not be fed, or not be allowed to use the toilet.... all while ALSO maybe having been given insulin to drop the blood sugar and make you foggy minded, or given psychedelics, or what have you ... and you STILL have to remember it all perfectly or you will be electrocuted, or raped, or left alone in a cold room with no clothes for days..... believe me, you are going to have that skill no matter how long its been.
Sometimes I have the opposite experience of you, and I am baffled by how people close to me can't remember intricate details from things fairly recently (like last week, or five years ago, makes no difference to the recorder parts, they are sort of timeless) and likewise they don't understand how I can remember that stuff. Its a matter of how deep into the memory work to retrieve those parts one has gone.
Also, this points out why it is so hard to fully clear all the trauma. Because one scene alone may have say 8 different parts, all squirrelled away inside the mind, none of them wanting to come together/work in a team to share what they know, because they are trying to keep the whole system safe and remembering can be really destabilizing all around. So it may have taken 2 weeks of 4 hours a day flashbacks and you think you have cleared the scene but then years later you wake up and feel like you have been drugged, you have stuff you'd like to do and nope, you are going to sit on the couch and be sedated all day with no drugs on board whatsoever because whoops, that part that was drugged is still 'in' the memory, and that is what it remembers, right down to the body equivalent that is 'up' for you 30 years later...
Until you can work together internally as a team, commit to healing, and then figure out largely by trial and error how to wake that part up, get it to realize it is not happening now, that it is over, (which will make it realize it is not actually currently sedated, and you can have your day back), well, its a big fat mess. I mean grocery shopping can get really complicated when there are 5 you's 'up' and one of them is a traumatized 4 year old who now sees ice cream and candies and the more health conscious adult part is like 'look, let's get green beans' and the four year old has put all kinds of other stuff in the cart. And then has a panic attack when she sees a yellow label and starts crying and you have to just walk out because its the only option. Anyways..... that is what the rough moments of integration amidst trying to go on living is like.
So yeah, I have no doubt Cathy could remember a conversation verbatim decades later. Don't even get me started on trying to describe what getting body memories back is like. Its awful.
Anyways, hope that helps. No hypnotic regression is needed. Mind control projects survivors lived in a suspended animation state of hypnosis for much of our lives. Its coming OUT of that that is the doozy, waking yourself up to realize its over. In fact 'hypnosis' sessions are a really bad idea for MK survivors, but I won't go into that here.
If you want more info on this kind of memory from a more ''scientific" source, I would encourage people to look at the free sample of the Alison Miller book "Healing the Unimaginable" that is available on Amazon. Her other book "Becoming yourself, Healing from Mind Control" will also offer helpful insights into what is required in the ongoing and by necessity slow going self rescue process that is healing. there is only a narrow 'window of tolerance' for getting the memories back that any one can take, so this means if you are dealing with thousands of trauma scenes, all of them fractured into multiple parts that are each holding part of the memory, it can take a long, long time to get through.
And in the meantime, its messy and weird and inexplicably strange and no one believes you and calls you a freak and oh, how are you supposed to work to make money to survive? Because the government offers no "disability" insurance for survivors of its own experiments that leave you barely able to make the sink work on a morning after the heavy duty recall work.
Hope that is vaguely useful.
Sorry if I sound moody. Its just sometimes frustrating because I have an entirely different 'processor' in my head and my software is mostly non-translatable for normal people's software codes, but I still have to try and fit in with yours because that is the standard issue. I am not mad and I just want to explain what life after mind control is really like, but doritos in hummus taste really funky. My apologies if the flavor of my words is off for you too. ..... the heartfelt aspect probably got lost in translation, but know that I took the effort to share this with the intent for mutual understanding...... and to answer a question that most people will never find someone willing or able to answer.
Re: Bill Ryan's personal Question-and-Answer thread. Pile it on. :)
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