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Thread: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

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    Canada Avalon Member CurEus's Avatar
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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Purportedly there is quite a bit of Sasquatch DNA that has been sampled and sequenced, same with Neadenrthals and other hominids and "crypto hominids" but moreover as it is generally accepted that advanced sciences by classified programs are several decades ahead of public research I wonder what has already been "resurrected" and then tweaked and hybridized already?

    I tend to believe that if it can be done it will be done...and HAS been done, where possible. My mind keeps drifting to the incredible uptick in sightings of "Dogman" which is legit terrifying on almost every level. If we even just tweak something like myostatin genes the offspring would literally all look something like the Hulk, Recently scientists are adding speech genes from humans to animals with surprising results....

    I do not believe we can expect any set of morals, ethics or values to impede experimentation and soon many of the monsters of myth like Minotaurs, Centaurs and even Sphinx or mermains may again be common place in a bizarre menagerie of sorts. Isn't this just about the point when God destroyed the world and purged the abominations?

    Virtually all mega flora and fauna were obliterated at the end of the last ice age and the ecosystems adapted. I am not convinced that these plants or animals could function or survive today's environment or climate and if they did they would be radically disruptive but a Neanderthal perhaps could and may even thrive and surpass us as their brain were 20-30% larger than modern humans...if they could actually speak and their brain hemispheres were somewhat bridged. "Superhumans" are now on the menu...

    Interesting and also terrifying times.

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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Responding to post 20, nice one Bill!

    But, since it is inconceivable that such a critter wouldn’t hesitate to protect its giant tasty body, we would have to make friends with it. Maybe if we also created some of it’s predators, like the short faced bear, the local type of Sabre tooth cat, that North American extra big lion, besides this Dire wolf, then arrange some predations and fiercely and obviously defend the big buddies. Might get some love, might get us the most impractical pet ever.

    But fantasies and improbabilitues like this aside, genetic experimentation seems fraught with dangerous possible consequences. The worst tinkering, IMO, would be the disruption or negating of conscience in swaths of the populations.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
    creating creatures that'll hunt and eat us
    The worst thing that could happen when encountering a Giant Sloth is that it might sit on you.





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    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
    creating creatures that'll hunt and eat us
    The worst thing that could happen when encountering a Giant Sloth is that it might sit on you.




    I do think there's something rather worse than that!

    The giant 'slapping sloth' packs one hell of a punch! (look at that arm, and look at those claws!)

    50secs
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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Quote Posted by CurEus (here)

    [snipped]


    Virtually all mega flora and fauna were obliterated at the end of the last ice age and the ecosystems adapted. I am not convinced that these plants or animals could function or survive today's environment or climate and if they did they would be radically disruptive but a Neanderthal perhaps could and may even thrive and surpass us as their brain were 20-30% larger than modern humans...if they could actually speak and their brain hemispheres were somewhat bridged. "Superhumans" are now on the menu...

    Interesting and also terrifying times.

    re the bolded above.... that's a concern that I have - those little guy's (soon to be big guys) packs last lived at the end of the ice age and in an icy, snowy environment...with it's own environmental conditions..

    Perhaps they could have a huge enclosure in Alaska or somewhere like that - but we are so connected to our environment you have wonder if they will be able to survive now, long term... :/

    A more dramatic possible example - from Dinosaur times... THE THICK ATMOSPHERE THEORY that could explain why some dinosaurs could grow so big ....and move around ok.. but if they were brought back now - the present day atmosphere and gravity - would NOT suit them at all...

    Quote It may be hard to imagine that the Earth's air could have been so thick that its density was comparable to water. Nevertheless, there is no reason why a gas cannot be compressed to exhibit properties similar to a liquid—in fact, compressing a gas into a liquid is a common industrial process.

    For air near the Earth's surface to be so dense, there must have been a substantial amount of overlying atmosphere pressing down on it. Thus, high-density air at ground level serves as evidence of an extremely thick Mesozoic atmosphere.
    but I'm digressing a bit and the Dire Wolf isn't any where as far back as Dinosaurs - although they were bigger than we have now so they could have had a thicker atmosphere...?...maybe....

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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Well.. if any more proof is necessary for the possibility of us being recreated by our disk-flying friends a number of times, why not each time after 26 and odd thousand years, so that humans were contemporaneous indeed with the dinosaurs long ago (on a smaller earth of course) and in more gigantic forms...

    I used to ask people who were quite confident of the creational superiority of mankind how many human lives they thought a gorilla life was worth. Slightly idiotic silence was the general reply. It seems to be the same story with the dear dire wolves rebirthed in dire times: do we really think that it is ethically unwarrantable to recreate animals that might represent a danger to us whereas we have no second thoughts about recreating humans many thousandfolds, knowing how ugly we are to Creation, or Nature, to the point of killing off the dire wolves ourselves for good?

    When I think of the crowded beaches on Mr Trump’s Riviera, I hope there may be a herd of giant sloths claiming a spot to tan.
    Last edited by Michel Leclerc; 8th April 2025 at 23:23.

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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    My take on the creatures seen on Skinwalker Ranch is that they're inter-dimensional. I doubt real Dire Wolves are on the loose in Utah (yet!). These things come from elsewhere. That ranch has some kind of portal or dimensional gateway near it or over it, and occasionally things cross over. Exactly where they're coming from, who knows? Maybe another Earth, a different timeline, or a pocket frequency/dimension sitting parallel to our own. I expect a certain category of cryptid has this kind of origin.
    If we are able to build partial, only nuts-and-bolts, copies of inter-dimensional flying saucers, why would we not be able to breed partial, sinews-and-veins, copies of inter-dimensional dire wolves, dogmen and ufonauts?

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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Alright, this is cool, but I'd like to keep it within perspective. Take the time to read the Wikipedia article on Colossal Biosciences and take note of this section in particular:

    Quote In April 2025, it was announced that Colossal used cloning and gene-editing to birth three genetically modified wolf pups, six-month-old males Romulus and Remus and two-month-old female Khaleesi. In-house scientists analyzed the dire wolf genome, extracted from two ancient samples - a 13,000-year-old tooth and a 72,000-year-old ear bone. After comparing the genomes of gray wolves and dire wolves to identify the genetic differences responsible for the dire wolf’s distinctive features, Colossal isolated EPC cells from gray wolf blood samples before rewriting 14 key genes in the cell’s nucleus to express 20 traits claimed to represent the dire wolf phenotype. Overall, the work was less invasive than the typical cloning process. Colossal scientists produced 45 engineered ova, which developed into embryos and inserted into the wombs of two surrogate hound mixes."[56][57][58][59][60] Colossal claims that these minor genetic modifications effectively revive dire wolves as a species, though "no ancient dire wolf DNA was actually spliced into the gray wolf's genome".[56]
    They changed 14 genes to promote 20 key traits. They did not splice any grey wolf DNA into the embryos. Not saying it's not cool, it is. But it's more spectacle than substance IMO.
    Last edited by Dilettante; 9th April 2025 at 00:23.

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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Personally, I think it's quite possible that the dire wolf lineage is still present in northern Canada's grey wolf population. As I've been trekking in the back country for decades, I've encountered incredibly large wolf tracks couple of times. One time as I approached some tracks that I assumed were moose tracks due to their size, as I took a closer look I realized these were very clearly canine type of tracks. As big as my hand with spread out fingers, and deep into the snow, as only a heavy animal could. It was slightly unnerving as this wolf, along with several other smaller ones, had been following my ski tracks from the previous day. But I never noticed the critters themselves. Wolves are smart, they know how to slide away like a shadow if they want to avoid encounters with humans.

    Another time while skiing in the backcountry, I encountered a pack of wolves at approximately 200 metres distance. One of them stood out for his enormous size, way bigger than the rest of the pack. I'm quite sure this wolf was a size similar to the dire wolf depicted in a post above.

    It's okay if you don't believe me... I just know what I saw.

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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Quote Posted by Rizotto (here)
    Personally, I think it's quite possible that the dire wolf lineage is still present in northern Canada's grey wolf population. As I've been trekking in the back country for decades, I've encountered incredibly large wolf tracks couple of times. One time as I approached some tracks that I assumed were moose tracks due to their size, as I took a closer look I realized these were very clearly canine type of tracks. As big as my hand with spread out fingers, and deep into the snow, as only a heavy animal could. It was slightly unnerving as this wolf, along with several other smaller ones, had been following my ski tracks from the previous day. But I never noticed the critters themselves. Wolves are smart, they know how to slide away like a shadow if they want to avoid encounters with humans.

    Another time while skiing in the backcountry, I encountered a pack of wolves at approximately 200 metres distance. One of them stood out for his enormous size, way bigger than the rest of the pack. I'm quite sure this wolf was a size similar to the dire wolf depicted in a post above.

    It's okay if you don't believe me... I just know what I saw.

    I believe you

    It makes sense that as the pure Dire Wolf was dying off due to environmental changes... in the colder more isolated areas like where you went..... the stronger survivors, few and far between, could have been mating with a different wolf species and their DNA lived on.....before the pure breed became extinct....

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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Quote Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)
    If we are able to build partial, only nuts-and-bolts, copies of inter-dimensional flying saucers, why would we not be able to breed partial, sinews-and-veins, copies of inter-dimensional dire wolves, dogmen and ufonauts?
    I'm not saying we aren't. But these 'inter-dimensional' creatures known variously as skinwalkers (if we're talking exclusively Skinwalker Ranch here) were being sighted in the area long before any government black-ops. 'Skinwalker' is a Native American term. It's only one in the veritable menagerie of cryptids Native Americans have been encountering since before Columbus set sail. These creatures are ancient.

    The government certainly didn't create these things. At most, they managed to capture a few for study, then gone on to breed them and maybe train them for who knows what nefarious purposes.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    A scientific achievement that is smart and idiotic at the same time. I can see the Darwin award paragraph in my head already: Scientist creates dire wolf then gets eaten by it.

    This guy on the internet, who believes in the climate crisis and wears a NASA jacket, claims this isn't a dire wolf; it's a new species. I don't understand but here's his video: https://youtu.be/Ar0zgedLyTw?feature=shared.

    I never bothered to think about the relationship between dire wolves and wolves but as far as my lazy google searches can tell they're not as related as I first thought. It looks like we combined science with Game of Thrones and made a new species.

    Comments on the NASA jacket guy's video point out:
    @playamcnugeegames8267
    This is Jurassic Parks plot. They never de-extinct dinosaurs, they use DNA from other animals to create what they think dinosaurs looked like. This is the plot of Jurassic Park. Now in the real world, we have to be the ones to realize if this is a horrible or wonderful development. It could be both.
    But real dire wolf or not who cares? Like a few others in this thread have already kind of pointed out: they went extinct for a reason. Worst use of genetic engineering in history... to date. I have a feeling we will out-do ourselves shortly.

    Two cats can already naturally make kittens with nature's 'genetic engineering'. Science should chill out, stop making dire fearful, awful, boding ill wolves, and spend more time watching kitten videos. Science... if you're reading this please stop making 'boding ill wolves' and fill your time up watching stuff like this cats and kittens video: https://youtu.be/4rDUHDoXsmw?feature=shared.

    Although the original meaning of 'dire' is fearful/awful the modern slang meaning is extremely serious, or urgent, or: of a very poor quality e.g. the content was dire, or, science's wisdom is dire.

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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    'Researchers found a perfectly preserved 42 thousand years ago baby horse in Siberia. He was in such good condition that his blood was still in a liquid state, allowing the scientists to extract it.
    Fortunately, the world will soon meet the clone of the ancient horse that lived 42 thousand years ago.'


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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Responding in agreement with Dilettante (post 27), and Mathew (post 31):

    Fake claim, on it’s face, but the tech might do some good.

    Can we really resurrect extinct animals, or are we just creating hi-tech lookalikes?
    Published: April 10, 2025 7.04am EDT

    https://theconversation.com/can-we-r...kalikes-254245

    Quote From dire wolves to woolly mammoths, the idea of resurrecting extinct species has captured the public imagination. Colossal Biosciences, the Dallas-based biotech company leading the charge, has made headlines for ambitious efforts to bring back long-lost animals using cutting edge genetic engineering.

    It recently announced the birth of pups with key traits of dire wolves, an iconic predator last seen roaming North America more than 10,000 years ago. This followed on the heels of earlier project announcements focused on the woolly mammoth and the thylacine. This all fuels a sense that de-extinction is not only possible but imminent.

    But as the science advances, a deeper question lingers: how close must the result be to count as a true return? If we can only recover fragments of an extinct creature’s genome – and must build the rest with modern substitutes – is that really de-extinction, or are we simply creating lookalikes?

    To the public, de-extinction often evokes images of Jurassic Park-style resurrection: a recreation of a lost animal, reborn into the modern world. In scientific circles, however, the term encompasses a variety of techniques: selective breeding, cloning, and increasingly, synthetic biology through genome editing. Synthetic biology is a field that involves redesigning systems found in nature.

    *pic*

    Scientists have used selective breeding of modern cattle in attempts to recreate an animal that resembles the auroch, the wild ancestor of today’s breeds. Cloning has been used to briefly bring back the pyrenean ibex, which went extinct in 2000. In 2003, a Spanish team brought a cloned calf to term, but the animal died a few minutes after birth.

    This is often cited as the first example of de-extinction. However, the only preserved tissue was from one female animal, meaning it could not have been used to bring back a viable population. Colossal’s work falls into the synthetic biology category.

    These approaches differ in method but share a common goal: to restore a species that has been lost. In most cases, what emerges is not an exact genetic copy of the extinct species, but a proxy: a modern organism engineered to resemble its ancestor in function or appearance.

    Take the case of the woolly mammoth. Colossal’s project aims to create a cold-adapted Asian elephant that can fulfil the mammoth’s former ecological role. But mammoths and Asian elephants diverged hundreds of thousands of years ago and differ by an estimated 1.5 million genetic variants. Editing all of these is, for now, impossible. Instead, scientists are targeting a few dozen genes linked to key traits like cold resistance, fat storage and hair growth.

    *pic*

    Compare that to humans and chimpanzees. Despite a genetic similarity of around 98.8%, the behavioural and physical differences between the two are huge. If comparatively small genetic gaps can produce such major differences, what can we expect when editing only a tiny fraction of the differences between two species? It’s a useful rule of thumb when assessing recent claims.

    As discussed in a previous article, Colossal’s dire wolf project involved just 20 genetic edits. These were introduced into the genome of a gray wolf to mimic key traits of the extinct dire wolf. The resulting animals may look the part, but with so few changes, they are genetically much closer to modern wolves than their prehistoric namesake.

    Colossal’s ambitions extend beyond mammoths and dire wolves. The company is also working to revive the thylacine (Tasmanian tiger), a carnivorous marsupial that was once native to mainland Australia, Tasmania and New Guinea. The last example died at Hobart Zoo in 1936. Colossal is using a genetic relative called the fat-tailed dunnart – a tiny marsupial – as the foundation. The goal is to engineer the dunnart’s genome to express traits found in thylacines. The team says it is developing an artificial uterus device to carry the engineered foetus.

    Colossal also has a project to revive the dodo, a flightless bird that roamed Mauritius until the 1600s. That project will use the Nicobar pigeon, one of the dodo’s closest living relatives, as a basis for genetic reconstruction.

    *pic*

    In each case, the company relies on a partial blueprint: incomplete ancient DNA, and then uses the powerful genome editing tool Crispr to edit specific differences into the genome of a closely related living species. The finished animals, if born, may resemble their extinct counterparts in outward appearance and some behaviour – but they will not be genetically identical. Rather, they will be hybrids, mosaics or functional stand-ins.

    That doesn’t negate the value of these projects. In fact, it might be time to update our expectations. If the goal is to restore ecological roles, not to perfectly recreate extinct genomes, then these animals may still serve important functions. But it also means we must be precise in our language. These are synthetic creations, not true returns.

    Technology to prevent extinction

    There are more grounded examples of near-de-extinction work – most notably the northern white rhinoceros. Only two females remain alive today, and both are infertile. Scientists are working to create viable embryos using preserved genetic material and surrogate mothers from closely related rhino species. This effort involves cloning and assisted reproduction, with the aim of restoring a population genetically identical to the original.

    Unlike the mammoth or the thylacine, the northern white rhino still has living representatives and preserved cells. That makes it a fundamentally different case – more conservation biology than synthetic biology. But it shows the potential of this technology when deployed toward preservation, not reconstruction.

    *pic*

    Gene editing also holds promise for helping endangered species by using it to introduce genetic diversity into a population, eliminate harmful mutations from species or enhance resilience to disease or climate change. In this sense, the tools of de-extinction may ultimately serve to prevent extinctions, rather than reverse them.

    So where does that leave us? Perhaps we need new terms: synthetic proxies, ecological analogues or engineered restorations. These phrases might lack the drama of “de-extinction” but they are closer to the scientific reality.

    After all, these animals are not coming back from the dead – they are being invented, piece by piece, from what the past left behind. In the end, it may not matter whether we call them mammoths or woolly elephants, dire wolves or designer dogs. What matters is how we use this power – whether to heal broken ecosystems, to preserve the genetic legacy of vanishing species or simply to prove that we can.

    But we should at least be honest: what we’re witnessing isn’t resurrection. It’s reimagination.
    Last edited by Johnnycomelately; 11th April 2025 at 14:17. Reason: Done.

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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Quote Posted by Johnnycomelately (here)
    ...or are we just creating hi-tech lookalikes?
    I'd be delighted to see high-tech lookalikes of dire wolves, saber-tooth tigers, giant sloths, woolly mammoths, moas (like giant ostriches), and glyptodons (giant armadillos). Just keep them in highly secure game parks with enormous super-strong fences.

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    Default Re: De-Extinction - The Return of the Dire Wolf?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Johnnycomelately (here)
    ...or are we just creating hi-tech lookalikes?
    I'd be delighted to see high-tech lookalikes of dire wolves, saber-tooth tigers, giant sloths, woolly mammoths, moas (like giant ostriches), and glyptodons (giant armadillos). Just keep them in highly secure game parks with enormous super-strong fences.
    That food chain starts with way more succulent vegetation than we have now. We would need to raise CO2 levels back to the highs of those glorious days.

    I sure hope that the Trump admin puts some honest scientific sights on Earth’s climate, verifies and standardizes proper science.

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