Which country makes the best products?

[Strat]

Right away, my answer is Japan. Anyway...

I use hand tools a lot and some power tools. In the 90s if you got a USA hand tool (generally speaking) you could bet that it would perform well and last a long time. Sears/Craftsman tools were great. If it broke in some way you could bring it back to the store, no receipt necessary, and they would replace it.

But times have changed. USA makes junk now. If I see 'made in USA' (which is rare) these days I roll my eyes and say, "Oh boy, here we go."

There is a sort of joke about Chinese products being crap. I generally agree but it's not a hard rule in my mind. Some products they make, like the iPhone, are fantastic products. I have some Chinese power tools that I know won't last long but I figure if I can get a few years out of them then that's good enough for me.

Japan, for whatever reason, seems to make the best products. Electronics, to cars, to tools. I've asked around quite a bit on the net if anyone has any knowledge as to why this is. Most agree with me that this is generally true, but nobody has given me answers with sources like books, articles, whatever.

There are many other countries that manufacture lots of various goods. Mexico, Taiwan, Vietnam, etc.

So who makes the best stuff and why is that? And also what products do each particular company excel at? It seems damn near anything electronic I need comes from China, but honestly I haven't had problems with the electronics I buy. So it's complicated.

Oh and mods I wasn't sure where to post this. My bad if it's in the wrong section!

[rgray222]

This is a really good question and I am not sure how to answer it. The reason it is so difficult to answer is because it is hard linked to the price people are willing to pay. At one time Japanese products were considered junk but now many of their products are the envy of the world, especially precision products, but they are expensive. Generally, Americans and Europeans make really great products but you won't find the quality stuff in Home Depot or furniture outlets. The quality will be in precision machine shops, high-end furniture stores and high-end speciality shops. Even then it is not uncommon for some of the parts for premium products to be made out of the country.

So much of the manufacturing has been moved to China from Europe and the USA that the comparison is no longer straightforward. Not too many years ago China made junk products but now they are somewhat acceptable. I would imagine in the next 5-10 years Chinese products could very well be accepted as some of the best in the world. Cheap labor is an absolute game changer and the largest "unequalizer" in the world. If China loses its price advantage by paying higher wages and stabilizing its exchange rates it will lose its advantage.

For the most part, Chinese products are acceptable for the price but if you really want high-end quality you can find it in Japan, Europe or America if you're willing to pay the premium price.

[Ioneo]

The Japanese value perfection. They strive for it in everything from flower arranging, art, food (especially), products etc. I have lived in Japan for 40 years and never had to take something I bought back because it was faulty. When I have visited the U.S. and looked at the Japanese electronics and appliances sold, the selection is a fraction of what can be found in Japan and generally second rate. Even the products from China imported are of a higher quality than elsewhere because they know the Japanese demand it.

[Le Chat]

In the 1960s and 1970s here in the UK, any poor quality product would be regarded as "Japanese rubbish"

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Le Chat (here)
In the 1960s and 1970s here in the UK, any poor quality product would be regarded as "Japanese rubbish"

Yes! That's true. I remember when the Japanese starting making motorcycles — Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki.

The British bikers made jokes about them until a few years later when it grew clear they'd become the very best. I suspect the same may fairly soon become true with Chinese cars and motorcycles, of which there's now a bewilderingly wide range that I can barely keep up with.

[Michi]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Le Chat (here)
In the 1960s and 1970s here in the UK, any poor quality product would be regarded as "Japanese rubbish"

Yes! That's true. I remember when the Japanese starting making motorcycles — Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki.

The British bikers made jokes about them until a few years later when it grew clear they'd become the very best. I suspect the same may fairly soon become true with Chinese cars and motorcycles, of which there's now a bewilderingly wide range that I can barely keep up with.

Especially in regards to Audio and Video equipment the following outstanding Japanese product brands are on the top of the world ranking list - used not only by regular people but also professionals:

• Yamaha
• Onkyo
• Sony
• Denon
• JVC

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I remember growing up with the same appliances in our kitchen (toaster, kettle, oven, washing machine etc), year after year with nothing going wrong. Our first colour TV (this model exactly from 1974), lasted well into the 1990s. Our first microwave oven went for over 25 years. It was only replaced because the catch on the door got a little worn-out, but it worked fine otherwise.

I don't know which country makes the best things, but it seems to me that in a world dominated by corporate profiteering, things are built to deliberately break down, to force us to go out and buy a new one, or pay a fortune to get it fixed. The market for spare parts is huge, especially cars! Just before Christmas, I had to fork out an eye-watering £1,600 for a new airbag control unit -- a legal requirement to keep it on the road. A couple of year's previously, it was £700 for a tiny ABS sensor (most of that was labour cost). I know cars are over-complicated now with all the various electronics, so there's a lot more that can go wrong, but I can't help but think they're scamming us!

[rgray222]

Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
I remember growing up with the same appliances in our kitchen (toaster, kettle, oven, washing machine etc), year after year with nothing going wrong. Our first colour TV (this model exactly from 1974), lasted well into the 1990s. Our first microwave oven went for over 25 years. It was only replaced because the catch on the door got a little worn-out, but it worked fine otherwise.

I don't know which country makes the best things, but it seems to me that in a world dominated by corporate profiteering, things are built to deliberately break down, to force us to go out and buy a new one, or pay a fortune to get it fixed. The market for spare parts is huge, especially cars! Just before Christmas, I had to fork out an eye-watering £1,600 for a new airbag control unit -- a legal requirement to keep it on the road. A couple of year's previously, it was £700 for a tiny ABS sensor (most of that was labour cost). I know cars are over-complicated now with all the various electronics, so there's a lot more that can go wrong, but I can't help but think they're scamming us!

Yes, planned obsolescence is a real thing and it is only getting worse. Even today the planned obsolescence may not be in the hardware itself but in the software. Companies only support phones for 3 years because they want you to buy a new one. I use a Samsung Galaxy phone and I noticed that the last one I purchased said it supported that particular phone for 4 years instead of the normal 3. They have no shame it is right out in the open now. A friend rebuilt a John Deere riding lawnmower engine for me last year, He had the entire engine ripped apart in my garage and showed me the plastic part that failed, it was a $5 plastic washer. It was deep in the center of the engine and it was intentionally meant to fail after 1000 hours of usage. Who knows how long the engine might have lasted if that washer had been metal?

It used to be that products were made so well that people found a way to get them fixed. Nowadays that thought doesn't even occur to most people. We have been so conditioned to purchase new products that even people living at or below the poverty line will find a way to buy a new phone, computer or TV before they think about repairing a product.

There is no doubt that the Chinese products that we have become accustomed to are only meant to last a year or two but not much more.

[palehorse]

Hi Strat, are you asking in general? or any specific products or industry?

Basically stuffs made in Japan will last a way more, I can speak from my experience with parts for Japanese trucks. It is superior hands down.

All comments above are very sincere, nowadays things are built not to last but to break, so we go there and buy a new one. First my usual rant: do not buy it unless you really need, always look for alternatives, but obvious I can only speak for myself, it depends on each person lifestyle, here is one example, I made a rustic water filter for my family it used activated charcoal, it works wonder and cost me only 25 bucks, instead of thousand bucks for a brand one that even ozonate the water... what for? I just want clean water, and the caveat is: these expensive water filters needs maintenance, so there you go paying again just to keep your filter. Another example, I want to completely stop using cooking gas, my solution is to build a small fire wood stove, I already got the cob oven to bake whatever I need, so I got no expenses with gas, all I need is to grab some wood or chop it down in small pieces and ready to cook, so I don't need a new microwave that will last 3 years, next things I have in mind is to also replace the fridge and freezer, and go more with low tech which by the way never breaks. So my point is everything new is fabricated with an expiration date on it, TV, soundsystem, computers, phones, etc, etc, and etc..

When it comes to tools, as you wrote, if you buy a Chinese unknown brand and it last 2 years, great that was what you expected anyway, but a brand one does not mean it will last longer, most companies moved to China, Taiwan, Vietnam, even Thailand. So I would really try to find someone who got whatever tool you looking for and then have their personal honest opinion on that tool or product, this is the best way, but of course someone you know well, someone you call friend that would not lie about it, or give you a link for those affiliate marketing, so skip these things this is not an honest practice.

Another thing I wold like to comment is about dropshipping practices, the market is flooded with it. You probably know, if not research "Dropshipping" it is a business practice where the sellers usually buy crap products from China and brand it as their own just to fulfill order online (called branded dropshipping). It is everywhere and in all countries, including Japan, South Korean, Malaysia, Singapore, Germany, Switzerland, New Zealand, Australia and specially in US and UK. Dropshippers target are the most developed countries where the income is higher, however Ads. cost is also higher in these countries, so there is a trade off. Dropshipping will often present their products in a very well designed website with good marketing deceiving communication that most people won't even notice, they are easily found on search engines like Bing and Google because they pay to be on top.
Some dropshipping white label is very hard to identify because their product has a little more customization in the Chinese factory, so it won't look like the one on Amazon, but it will look closer enough, sometimes they offer colors or other variations that the crowd is not offering, so little thing like that they use in their advantage in order to sell it. Larger dropshipers you will find selling high ticket products, but most of them are selling low ticket, it all depends on the budget of the person running the scheme. For you have an idea my little cousin he was 14 when he opened a shop online using his father name (without consent), using his credit card, the thing is he could sell quite a lot and even his father didn't believe he could make that amount of money, he could strike a deal with a Chinese agent to fins the factory and ship it to his clients, he was selling everything for people involved in the game world. He did that for few years and stopped around covid time when things got touch online. So these companies can be setup in 1 day, and they can go off just like that, the companies are usually registered in the Caribbean area or any other country known as fiscal paradise. Everything is shady from start to end, these companies when they are in money trouble, they just pull the plug and screw the customer.

So my advice to find good products is to avoid entirely dropshipping companies and go only with real brands that are there in the market for a good while, pay more if you have to, but having sure they will not just vanish when things goes bad on their side. Most of these companies are hosted with Shopify and the likes.

Another option is to buy a good brand second hand, if you feel the item is good. I never had new car in my life, so I check a lot before buy, no option.

[Jamie]

Posted by Le Chat (here)
In the 1960s and 1970s here in the UK, any poor quality product would be regarded as "Japanese rubbish"

So true! 'Made in Japan' rubbish followed by 'Made in Taiwan', and finally 'Made In China' rubbish! At least that it how it was in the UK.
Poor quality Taiwanese products everywhere as a teenager. Especially the calculators in school.
Now all those Countries make quality products, although China do produce alot of low quality goods too.

Personally the best items I own nowadays are from any of the Scandanavian Countries or Japan.

Japan pips all to the post for my personal needs.
My stapleless stapler, silky saws, titanium cookware, my Zojirushi rice cooker, Shimano gears, Omron blood pressure cuff, etc, etc.

[grapevine]

Does "Best Products" include breakfast?
If so, Japan's right up there. Just love the little touch at the end . . .

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3dLyAW02E_w

47 secs

[palehorse]

forgot to mention Germany also is pretty good when it comes to quality tools. Hand tools from brands like HAZET will last a lifetime, BOSCH used to be better but still good if compared to similar Chinese brand. I think KNIPEX when comes to precision tools compared to Japanese quality, these 3 companies from Germany are probably more than 100 years old, so it is reliable but they cost a way more than their competitors. Do not forget brands likw Einhell, Festool and Gedore they are also good, it goes from hand tools to power tools, used in construction business quite a lot. I used to have this Hazet impact wrench, I sold it second hand didn't lose value, so I bought it second hand and sold it after years of use. More or less like this model here: https://www.hazet.de/en/products/pne...-4000896188444 (mine was an older model, seems like not been sold anymore).

Now I am looking to buy a torque wrench of good quality, this tool is calibrated from factory, and every few years it has to be re-calibrated, it has to be bought with a company that can offer calibration services in your local area (you don't want to send your tool overseas for a re-calibration job, it will probably not worth it). There is cheap models from China, I was tempted to buy one for 40 bucks, but then when maintenance time come it will probably go straight to the bin.

For hand tools, power tools and precision tools, German brands are reliable just like Japaneses one.

In US Black & Decker they have a trademark called DeWalt, they do descent tools, I used their circular saw and a driller, both cordless and very powerful, could work with the saw for several cuts without need to recharge, these tools I used was at least 3 or 4 years old and was still delivering great power, in other words I got the job done.

Also as someone mentioned above places like Sweden has good tools too, I know Hultafors brand is great and long time in the market (over 140 years).

https://www.hultafors.com/articles/about-us

[palehorse]

Posted by grapevine (here)
Does "Best Products" include breakfast?
If so, Japan's right up there. Just love the little touch at the end . . .

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3dLyAW02E_w

47 secs

wonderful

[rgray222]

I realize this is a little off-topic (obsolescence) but this great, very short video really shows how well products used to be made.

[Ratszinger]

My neighbor traveled and dealt with China quite often in his work. He got to see places and factories few see from the west. He says there is a whole nother layer to China the west doesn't get to see much! In his knife collection were some China made pieces that were for lack of any other description "Museum Grade" folding knives. Mastodon ivory handles! Exquisite craftsmanship! These are not offered here but they rival the best makers I know in the USA and I was one of them making world class folding knives at on time. These were shelf above top shelf quality!

[palehorse]

I remembered about this thread while watching this video today.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1nYe7M6QVxk

[Bill Ryan]

Kim Iverson published this video an hour ago. The first 10 minutes are all about how many luxury items, with elite Italian and French fashion house brand labels, are actually made in China.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=m1IMdY0r4xY

[rgray222]

Posted by palehorse (here)
I remembered about this thread while watching this video today.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1nYe7M6QVxk

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Kim Iverson published this video an hour ago. The first 10 minutes are all about how many luxury items, with elite Italian and French fashion house brand labels, are actually made in China.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=m1IMdY0r4xY

These two videos could not be further apart. I find the older gentlemen from Bangkok particularly intriguing. The video starts a bit slow, but he eventually gets to the heart of what he wants to say: a country that no longer produces goods or manufactures products has lost its soul. It has turned over all the production of goods to China because it cannot compete with China's low prices. These low prices are temporarily subsidised by the Chinese government long enough to force small, medium and some large businesses into bankruptcy. Thailand has nothing to leave the next generation because the Chinese have moved in and taken over the production of almost everything, including food. China's economic dominance not only leaves the country like a dependent addict, but it gives China unbelievable clout over the country's political affairs.

I am not familiar with Kim Iverson, but it is clear she has an agenda. At 12:28, she has a Chinese guy on saying that America needs another revolution, but what he fails to say, and Kim Iverson goes right along with him, is that the tariffs are an economic revolution. It is a reset to move American manufacturing facilities back onshore. Of course, the Chinese would be vehemently against this move. She glosses over technology transfer, intellectual property theft (read stealing research and development), government subsidies (read price dumping), and currency manipulation and makes absolutely no mention of cheap wages. She says the USA needs to get out of wars, manufacture its products, restore families, secure its borders and put America first. Did she miss the fact that Trump won the election, and these are exactly the issues he is attempting to implement on a daily basis? I think most people understand that all countries have their failing, but I think Trump is attempting to correct much of what ails the USA.

Like so many others, she strikes me as a hardcore leftist who is just beginning to come around to the idea that she has the same values as Trump, but it is too much of a lift to admit the truth. Also, she expresses the typical academic rhetoric: "I want a better country, but I must hate the West and my country before meaningful change can occur." Failing to recognise China's ambitions and glancing over China's strategies and tactics is a recipe for future wars and a topic of another discussion.

Edit
My apologies for being somewhat off topic.

[Strat]

At this point my opinion is still the same as when I started this thread, but I want to elaborate on my thoughts. Like I’ve mentioned, this is such an interesting topic. I think most blue collar workers agree with me. I’d put money on it without hesitation. Whenever I meet another blue collar guy we talk about which tool you prefer like which brand drill do you like? Who makes the best batteries? What’s the best value? This curiosity has slowly branched out to other devices.

In the gaming world/wars there is xbox VS Playstation. The xbox’s often have issues wheres the Playstations never due. The original xbox was the worst offender, plagued with what was called the ‘red ring of death.’ The system would light up red and not function. This required repairs by a qualified professional. Of course, it’s a Microsoft product.

I’m a proud American, I’m patriotic and loyal to my people. When you care for something you need to be aware of flaws and correct them. So I’m quick to call out that US hand tools aren’t what they used to be. Very high quality products available to every day people used to be a source of pride but now that’s gone. We still have high quality products but the price gouging is brutal. I refuse to buy more Snap-On tools.

If you’re reading this please keep in mind that while I’m proud of where I come from I’m in no way biased in this topic. This world is the stage for an east vs west game but I don’t play that ****. Generally speaking, whoever makes the best product gets my business. If China starts selling high quality tools at an affordable price then I’m in. I don’t care who makes it or where it comes from. If you make a solid product and you care about me as a buyer (good customer support) then I’m going to support your business. You scratch my back I scratch yours.

I would like to support American companies but I don’t think this is always reasonable. Like, if there is an American company who shoves politics in everyone’s faces and starts labeling people nazis then I want nothing to do with them. This is sort of a different topic altogether.

--- China ---

China comes under the microscope in these discussions because they make damn near everything.

Like many of my threads, the headline could be chosen better. My jokes don’t land and they’re confusing. On top of that, the benefit of the doubt is in short supply these days so it leads some to assume the wrong things. I promote some countries and knock others but my humor is not remotely close to my actual perspective.

China makes lots of great products these days. Sounds disingenuous but it’s true and unfortunately the US economy (Spring 2025) may reflect this soon. I bought a reading lamp for my room years ago and it works great to this day, it’s in like new condition. It’s the kind with a small flexible neck ~15” long connected to an adjustable ring light. It can light the room with different kinds of light and intensity. I bought it years ago cheap and it does the job perfectly. Same with a similar style room light which came with a remote control.

Hopefully the USA can come up with such products efficiently so I don’t have to pay an absurdly high price for a phone case or whatever.

China’s bad reputation comes from their past products. Times have changed though and so has the market which is one big thing all cultures have in common: the judge and jury that is the market. I love the market because it’s unbiased, it’s just a sort of truth metric. Hell, I even use it to shut down bs with two simple words, “wanna bet?” But that’s a different topic!

Products are made to make money, plain and simple. This is why China makes tools that are on the bottom of the ladder, it’s where they can make the most money. I don’t blame them for a second. I mentioned earlier that they have the ability to make high quality products (all countries do) they just don’t make tools like this because the market tells them not to.

Chinese tools have their place in the market and they sell well. They have their time and place in general. The time and place (in USA, I don’t know about other places) for Chinese tools are for people who have zero tools and want to buy some to at least physically have something. You can go to any local department store or Amazon and buy a full set of Chinese tools for cheap. And honestly they’ll work great and last a long time if you care for them. Not everyone needs reliable tools like I do.

I need tools that have strict standards and tolerances. If you don’t buy such tools you’ll likely be running into issues and the job will take longer than normal. You don’t have to take my word for it, in fact I would encourage you not to. I would encourage a non biased look at data, the testing performed on the tools themselves. The results from what I’ve seen are surprising. American tools are better but sometimes they’re not worth the absurd cost. It depends on the tool in question, so specifics are needed to answer the question which is better.

Furthermore I don’t believe for a second that life is so simple that this topic can be summed up with “this country makes crap, that country makes quality.” China surely has many, many factories and I doubt they are all alike. Some factories will build tools at a higher quality than others. I bet the factory that makes bearings for China’s space program makes higher quality bearings than the bearings needed for Chinese lawnmowers.

I actually recently purchased Chinese wheel bearings for my truck. They weren’t cheap and were quite a bit more than the ones made in USA (they were purchased pre-Trump so this has nothing to do with trade wars). The tolerances were tight and they seem ‘beefy.’ That being said, I don’t leave reviews until years have passed. Will it stand up to the test of time? We shall see. My point is I bet the factory that made these wheel bearings have higher standards than some others.

As I’ve said this is a super interesting topic. I’d like to see some hard data, real numbers, documents, etc.