Why Do The Woke Support Palestine?

[Mike]

Hey Chris, you clearly have much more interaction with these folks than I do. I defer to your experience there. Perhaps there are far more grassroots woke than I realize. Even allowing for that, I remain dubious about it all.

When you see these university protests and so forth, what percentage of grassroots woke to brainwashed woke do you think the crowds represent? (and maybe we need an "other" category to represent all the minutiae in the middle, including the outside agitators and paid actors)

It should be no surprise to anyone who has followed the thread that my answer will be kinda cynical. I think the protests are largely disingenuous, and are mostly the result of the deliberate strategizing and "planned spontaneity" of some murky players intent on sewing discord and chaos in the west. It would be hard to talk me outta that view, despite the good intentions of what I would guess are a small portion of the student protesters.

I don't like being so cynical! I wish I had more reasons to be hopeful about all this. But I'm just about certain that none of this would be happening if Palestine was full of white people. It's not that certain individuals wouldn't sympathize with the injustice, but as a group there is no way in hell all those wokesters would be so up in arms over a country of whities. Come on...we all know this!

Which is kinda my point here...which is that the situation in Gaza is awfully convenient and politically advantageous for the woke to exploit, seeing as tho they can kinda superimpose what they like to imagine is their struggle onto the struggle of the Palestinians.

[ExomatrixTV]

Sincere question:

• Let's assume that the vast majority of "regular woke people" are actually DUPED in to NeoMarxism tactics & repeating most of the same rhetoric without realizing it >>> and those who "mean well" who are not fanatic, nor have any evil agendas decide NOT to consider how they are being used not consider they became part of something sinister <<< Even if you can prove it is happening. >>> They REFUSE to see the problem because they assume only a tiny few abused "wokism" only a tiny few tries to hijack their "fight for justice" and corrupt it from within ... And they (the tiny few) do not represent "the whole" ... That is for the "regular woke people" reason enough NOT to study what you have to offer, NOT to study anything that can expose the real agenda!

• WHAT MAKES THEM "SO GOOD" ? THAT THEY REFUSE TO SEE THAT MOST OF THEIR ACTIONS & RHETORIC COMES RIGHT OUT OF THE (NEO)MARXIST PLAYBOOK! ... Not all of it, but most of it ... How can they still refuse to see it? ... What kind of mind-games/group psychology mechanism is at play here?

• see also this & this & this and definitely this combined with this transcript.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[christian]

The high number of non-student protesters on US campuses shows that the current protests have been infiltrated, certainly also by paid activists funded by deep state philanthropies and foreign actors (whose main goal seems to be the destabilization of society). This means that extremists are over-represented among the protesters compared to the general woke movement. The most zealous and the most brainwashed are the most likely to launch and join protest camps.

As for the percentage of grassroots woke among the woke in general, it's safe to say that people overestimate the percentage of brainwashed people in the opposing political camp. Democrats overestimate the percentage of unhinged racists among Republicans, and Republicans overestimate the percentage of blue-haired control freaks among Democrats. Likewise, someone who is critical of the woke movement is likely to overestimate the number of brainwashed people in the woke movement.

I know a lot of people who go to pro-Palestine protests in Berlin, I've seen a few protest marches myself, and it's a pretty wild mix of people. Many have protested against lockdowns in the past, many previously protested for zero-CoViD policies, and there are a lot of people in between. They're united in their solidarity with Palestine. I think it's easy to connect over this issue, because the current war is such a one-sided affair. It's a highly armed aggressor taking revenge on innocent civilians, so the number of casualties and destruction in Israel and Palestine is very unequal. It's not a war of two armies facing each other. It's easy to see that the conflict is very skewed and always has been, and most university students see this, even in Germany, where schools indoctrinate children to reflexively defend Israel. Still, most students in Germany seem to genuinely condemn Israel's ongoing war on Palestine. Because the war on Gaza is particularly disastrous and it's so easy to see, it has sparked a lot of protests. There are protest marches in Berlin in solidarity with Palestine all the time, and these protests seem to be mostly attended by grassroots activists.

I think that woke students see the injustice of what's being done to Palestine. I therefore think that student solidarity with Palestine is mostly genuine. However, I also think woke students are not very aware of, or good at defending themselves against, infiltration and ideological subversion. I think in the alternative media, for example, there is a greater awareness of subversion. Many in the alternative media know about COINTELPRO and similar projects. Nevertheless, you know subversion is still a problem also in the alternative media. I think people in the woke movement are still more naive about subversion on average, but I also see a tendency among woke people to become more aware. Humanity seems to be always evolving, but the establishment is trying to prevent that by supercharging polarization and extremist views.

I have seen and met woke people who are basically anti-white, but in my experience that's a minority among the woke. Most grassroots woke people just care about human rights in general. The woke concept of intersectionality, which has its merits and applications, encourages the most sympathy for groups that have been most oppressed. Palestine has long been one of the most oppressed nations, and the current war has exacerbated the situation, so I find it understandable that woke people (or anyone else) would feel strongly about Palestine right now.

I see how the Israeli-Palestinian conflict could be exploited by the establishment to bring about a World War 3 scenario as described in the alleged letter from Albert Pike to Giuseppe Mazzini. That's why I keep telling people on both sides of the conflict to be aware not to manifest this scenario, not to become excessively hateful and polarized, but to see the humanity on both sides and to realize that the main problem is when conformist masses follow psychopathic leaders, which is what happens on both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and in most other wars.

I have seen woke people who have changed after being exposed to certain information, for example regarding neo-Marxist subversion. Some of these people still call themselves woke, and they're aware that the woke movement has been infiltrated. In reality, mass movements are more nuanced at the grassroots level than their stereotypical portrayal in the media or by their opponents. Two people rarely agree on everything, let alone groups of people. People also change their views over time. We can see this in the rise and fall of mass movements in the past. In order to support this evolutionary process, it must first be acknowledged.

I'm facing a world where people are full of all kinds of delusions. In general, I prefer to reach out to the less heavily entrenched individuals with empathy and information, rather than attacking or vilifying those who are not ready to let go of their delusions. I believe that by reaching out to some of the less extremist individuals and helping them to gain a better understanding, this can indirectly help to soften others, so that they become willing to look at new information. It's a step-by-step process, and it's important to make the present effort where it can have a positive effect. If I'm successful in one place today, it may become possible to be successful in another place tomorrow. It's a waste of time to despair or get upset about what can't be done today instead of doing what can be done today.

[Kryztian]

Posted by Kryztian (here)

Posted by Mike (here)

To summarize:

1. The woke support Palestine because they view Palestinians as "people of color" and Jews as whites.

Just wondering if these is some idea you came up with or if there is documentable, provable evidence that this is a central idea on college campuses?

Mike,

I finally found two individuals talking about the Palestine/Israel conflict who are employing your theory that race plays a major part and is an underlying motivation in this conflict. Ray McGovern (former CIA) and Judge Andrew Napolitano talk about how Truman's Secretary of State James Byrnes used racist arguments to get Harry Truman (also quite racist) to drop the Atomic Bomb on the yellow peoples of Japan, and how the same type of racism is at play in the current situation with our current situation. (From 28:45 to 33:00 in video below).

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bOp4VJ35hls

If you want to apply your logic here, you might what to fire up the red hot branding iron of "WOKE" and apply it to Judge Napolitano and Ray McGovern.

[truthandfreedom247369]

Posted by Mike (here)
Note: I know there will be some overlap here and there, but this thread isn't intended to be a debate between the pro-Israel crowd and the pro-Palestinian crowd. There are other threads for that. On a personal note, I've heard all the arguments for/against both sides and in the moment they all sound reasonable to me. But I've done very little research on my own so I remain ambivalent.

As I mentioned on another thread recently(https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...82#post1592682), it seems hypocritical for the woke to support Palestine, on the surface anyway (which is the thrust of this thread). After all, Palestinian Muslims have zero tolerance for anything LGBTQ, or LGBTQ related.

When we begin to understand that the goal is a one world Marxist state, it begins to make more sense. The woke are interested in revolution, and little else. And in this instance I'm not necessarily talking about the man on the street, but the lunatics orchestrating this whole affair and the useful idiots immediately below them in the pecking order.

When I use the word "woke" in this context, you could just as easily replace it with "the cabal", "the deep state", "the censorship industrial complex", and so on. Because this is the main tool they're currently using to bludgeon the world into submission. They want disruption (until it's no longer necessary).

If you pick up at the 3:30 minute mark in this 10 minute video, former New York Times journalist Bari Weiss lays out all the reasons the woke are not only siding with Palestine, but - and here's the important bit - why they are aggressively anti-Jew, regardless of whether they live in Israel, America, Russia, or on Mars.

In the context of her speech, she's speaking much more of the woke foot soldiers, the boots on the ground types - college students, professors, university presidents, MSM pundits, etc.

While these types have been largely brainwashed into thinking they're actually doing something noble, they're far too tainted with narcissism and various other cluster B mental illnesses to know that they're being exploited by murky figures much further up the deep state hierarchy to create nothing but chaos.

Here's how Bari lays it out (a stripped down version. see the video for more)

- D.E.I. has created very crude ideas of right and wrong. It follows a very Marxist bent (oppressor/oppressed) and suggests that if one is wealthy or successful in any way, it must be because they've oppressed another group (a minority in all likelihood).

- American Jews are typically successful, so within this framework are regarded suspiciously as a result, i.e. they must be oppressors. Like Asian Americans, their very existence defies the victim narrative spouted by woke theorists, particularly the Critical Race Theory crowd. So they are naturally resented.

- As a result they occupy a strange space, because on the one hand they're generally speaking very successful, but also very vulnerable due to their minority status and the resent built up among less successful minorities that wish to do them harm.

- The woke are applying a crude American racial lens to the very nuanced situation between Israel/Palestine. American Jews are generally white-skinned (therefore they have "white privilege" and benefit from "whiteness"), and Palestinians are "people of color", and the woke view this as though it's no different than whites discriminating against blacks in the Jim Crow south.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ygIJREG0zfQ

Hey there Mike, I am involved with this topic quite a bit and I would like to say that there is proof through the WikiLeaks cables showing that the IDF created and funds Hamas and used them to create the conflict we see today to further their agenda. https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/8...html#efmAqcAue https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/8...html#efmDRFDi0 Please go over these cables and I bet like many, many other people that were very pro-Israel changed their minds on the subject. I tend to not trust any govts. That said I like all civilians of the world. I hope this helps! Peace and blessing to you!

[Mike]

Posted by Kryztian (here)

Posted by Kryztian (here)

Posted by Mike (here)

To summarize:

1. The woke support Palestine because they view Palestinians as "people of color" and Jews as whites.

Just wondering if these is some idea you came up with or if there is documentable, provable evidence that this is a central idea on college campuses?

Mike,

I finally found two individuals talking about the Palestine/Israel conflict who are employing your theory that race plays a major part and is an underlying motivation in this conflict. Ray McGovern (former CIA) and Judge Andrew Napolitano talk about how Truman's Secretary of State James Byrnes used racist arguments to get Harry Truman (also quite racist) to drop the Atomic Bomb on the yellow peoples of Japan, and how the same type of racism is at play in the current situation with our current situation. (From 28:45 to 33:00 in video below).

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bOp4VJ35hls

If you want to apply your logic here, you might what to fire up the red hot branding iron of "WOKE" and apply it to Judge Napolitano and Ray McGovern.

Sounds to me like they're saying your average white American can stomach Palestinian casualties because Palestinians are people of color and viewed as lesser? Is that right? I'm at work and a little distracted, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm getting this wrong. I'm getting distracted every 30 seconds.

Might be some of what they said there. But more than likely your average American is just so busy and the horrors of war are such a foreign reality that it can't quite register like it could or should.

There's a reason there aren't any "Mom's For Palestine" groups. And it's not because Mom's are any less compassionate than university students or members on forums like this one. It's because they're too busy raising their families. Ditto Dads. I don't buy for a moment that college students are any more morally conscious than anyone else.. I just think they're far less distracted! They have more time.

Call me cynical - and it might be well deserved! - but my first instinct when confronted with an individual expressing an inordinate amount of concern for a conflict in a far away land is one of suspicion. Maybe an inadequate metaphor, but when Princess Diana died there were large swaths of people here weeping in the streets. I found it to be quite bizarre! I think the emotion is real, but the reasons behind it are often far more complicated than they appear.

Anyway, I didn't hear anything about woke students supporting Palestine in that video. Did I miss something??

[Mike]

@truthandfreedom: thanks man! I'll have a close look when I get some time. Welcome to the forum

[Mike]

Posted by christian (here)
The high number of non-student protesters on US campuses shows that the current protests have been infiltrated, certainly also by paid activists funded by deep state philanthropies and foreign actors (whose main goal seems to be the destabilization of society). This means that extremists are over-represented among the protesters compared to the general woke movement. The most zealous and the most brainwashed are the most likely to launch and join protest camps.

As for the percentage of grassroots woke among the woke in general, it's safe to say that people overestimate the percentage of brainwashed people in the opposing political camp. Democrats overestimate the percentage of unhinged racists among Republicans, and Republicans overestimate the percentage of blue-haired control freaks among Democrats. Likewise, someone who is critical of the woke movement is likely to overestimate the number of brainwashed people in the woke movement.

I know a lot of people who go to pro-Palestine protests in Berlin, I've seen a few protest marches myself, and it's a pretty wild mix of people. Many have protested against lockdowns in the past, many previously protested for zero-CoViD policies, and there are a lot of people in between. They're united in their solidarity with Palestine. I think it's easy to connect over this issue, because the current war is such a one-sided affair. It's a highly armed aggressor taking revenge on innocent civilians, so the number of casualties and destruction in Israel and Palestine is very unequal. It's not a war of two armies facing each other. It's easy to see that the conflict is very skewed and always has been, and most university students see this, even in Germany, where schools indoctrinate children to reflexively defend Israel. Still, most students in Germany seem to genuinely condemn Israel's ongoing war on Palestine. Because the war on Gaza is particularly disastrous and it's so easy to see, it has sparked a lot of protests. There are protest marches in Berlin in solidarity with Palestine all the time, and these protests seem to be mostly attended by grassroots activists.

I think that woke students see the injustice of what's being done to Palestine. I therefore think that student solidarity with Palestine is mostly genuine. However, I also think woke students are not very aware of, or good at defending themselves against, infiltration and ideological subversion. I think in the alternative media, for example, there is a greater awareness of subversion. Many in the alternative media know about COINTELPRO and similar projects. Nevertheless, you know subversion is still a problem also in the alternative media. I think people in the woke movement are still more naive about subversion on average, but I also see a tendency among woke people to become more aware. Humanity seems to be always evolving, but the establishment is trying to prevent that by supercharging polarization and extremist views.

I have seen and met woke people who are basically anti-white, but in my experience that's a minority among the woke. Most grassroots woke people just care about human rights in general. The woke concept of intersectionality, which has its merits and applications, encourages the most sympathy for groups that have been most oppressed. Palestine has long been one of the most oppressed nations, and the current war has exacerbated the situation, so I find it understandable that woke people (or anyone else) would feel strongly about Palestine right now.

I see how the Israeli-Palestinian conflict could be exploited by the establishment to bring about a World War 3 scenario as described in the alleged letter from Albert Pike to Giuseppe Mazzini. That's why I keep telling people on both sides of the conflict to be aware not to manifest this scenario, not to become excessively hateful and polarized, but to see the humanity on both sides and to realize that the main problem is when conformist masses follow psychopathic leaders, which is what happens on both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and in most other wars.

I have seen woke people who have changed after being exposed to certain information, for example regarding neo-Marxist subversion. Some of these people still call themselves woke, and they're aware that the woke movement has been infiltrated. In reality, mass movements are more nuanced at the grassroots level than their stereotypical portrayal in the media or by their opponents. Two people rarely agree on everything, let alone groups of people. People also change their views over time. We can see this in the rise and fall of mass movements in the past. In order to support this evolutionary process, it must first be acknowledged.

I'm facing a world where people are full of all kinds of delusions. In general, I prefer to reach out to the less heavily entrenched individuals with empathy and information, rather than attacking or vilifying those who are not ready to let go of their delusions. I believe that by reaching out to some of the less extremist individuals and helping them to gain a better understanding, this can indirectly help to soften others, so that they become willing to look at new information. It's a step-by-step process, and it's important to make the present effort where it can have a positive effect. If I'm successful in one place today, it may become possible to be successful in another place tomorrow. It's a waste of time to despair or get upset about what can't be done today instead of doing what can be done today.

All that sounds very reasonable. You're a good man Chris, far more patient and charitable than I am

But since I'm an evil man I'm going to try to trip you up one last time ...

How many of those college protestors do you think would give up their smart phones for Palestine? I mean it. Serious question. Imagine for a moment they couldn't afford another one for 6 months...or a year.

How many would give up their laptops to feed a Palestinian family for a couple weeks? Again, if they couldn't replace it immediately.

I extend this question to the members here too. What would you give up to feed a Palestinian family for a few weeks? Or provide medical care for a Palestinian child? Your smart phone? Laptop? TV? Your vehicle? Imagine you couldn't replace them right away.

I think it's a useful question to ask oneself. It's a sincerity test.

One of the main reasons I remain cynical - despite your very thoughtful post and the posts of others - is that I don't see college kids making any sacrifices at all. Living in tents is an adventure for a young adult. There's the camaraderie and all the social credit that goes along with it as well. They only have stuff to gain, and nothing to lose. It now represents the orthodox position, so theres nothing particularly gutsy or rebellious about it either.

I'd be far more convinced if they were waving signs that said, PART TIME JOBS FOR PALESTINE.

If these kids were taking on part time jobs and sending the money to Palestinian causes, I'd be impressed. And that goes for anybody. If you're unwilling to make any kind of sacrifice for the cause, I'd submit that you don't care nearly as much as you imagine you do.

[christian]

Posted by Mike (here)
I don't see college kids making any sacrifices at all. Living in tents is an adventure for a young adult. There's the camaraderie and all the social credit that goes along with it as well. They only have stuff to gain, and nothing to lose. It now represents the orthodox position, so theres nothing particularly gutsy or rebellious about it either.

What's the actual commitment and impact of student protesters expressing solidarity with Palestine? That's a good question. I believe that speaking out is already a net benefit in and of itself. Speaking out against injustice is better than staying silent. It helps raise awareness. It takes courage to take a public stand that may put you in danger. I agree that setting up a camp is not the epitome of selfless heroism, but there are costs and dangers involved. You have to pay for your participation. You can't enjoy yourself or make money elsewhere while you're at a protest camp (unless you're a paid protester, of course), but you still have to pay your bills. You can gain social credit, but not everyone likes this kind of activism. There can be negative repercussions, and many activists have felt this personally.

Public dissent can help focus intention for further steps. I have seen many grassroots charities in Berlin raising money to support Palestinians. I hope that US protesters also put their money where their mouth is. I guess most won't give away their life savings (and they probably shouldn't because helping others shouldn't be debilitating), but any support is better than nothing.

I agree with you that it's not enough to be aware of a problem, to point it out publicly, and to demand solutions. Solving a problem requires personal responsibility and creative action. That's a recurring theme in the alternative media as well. In fact, moving from awareness to creative action is the main theme of Avalon. It says on the homepage, the principal purpose of the Avalon forum is "to encourage and support positive, constructive, and high-quality dialog and networking with the goal of creating the future on Planet Earth for ourselves and our children that we want to experience."

Most of humanity has been trapped in abusive systems for a long time, and people have long been unaware, unable, or unwilling to do anything about it. Despite the inadequacies of present-day activism, I think it's also important to note that activism has become more powerful and efficient than ever before in history. This has been beautifully summarized by Paul Hawken, it's in this thread.

You keep referring to yourself as a cynic. George Carlin said, "Scratch any cynic and you will find a disappointed idealist."

It's not wrong to look at the current situation with the student protests from the perspective that you do. You're making legitimate observations. The problems that you describe are real.

I'm interested in doing something right now to make a positive difference. I've found that my awareness and focus greatly influence my creative output, so I'm careful not to focus too much on problems once I recognize them, but on things that I can be grateful for and ways in which I can affect positive change. It keeps my spirit up, it puts a spring in my step, it empowers me to find creative ways to collaborate and have genuinely constructive interactions, and that's how I want to live.

Posted by Mike (here)
How many of those college protestors do you think would give up their smart phones for Palestine? I mean it. Serious question. Imagine for a moment they couldn't afford another one for 6 months...or a year.

I'm not answering your question, but I tell you why. I'd rather be busy looking for ways to help these protesters do something they are ready, willing, and able to do, than to be busy dwelling on what these protesters don't or won't do.

[ExomatrixTV]

Posted by Kryztian (here)

Posted by Kryztian (here)

Posted by Mike (here)

To summarize:

1. The woke support Palestine because they view Palestinians as "people of color" and Jews as whites.

Just wondering if these is some idea you came up with or if there is documentable, provable evidence that this is a central idea on college campuses?

Mike,

I finally found two individuals talking about the Palestine/Israel conflict who are employing your theory that race plays a major part and is an underlying motivation in this conflict. Ray McGovern (former CIA) and Judge Andrew Napolitano talk about how Truman's Secretary of State James Byrnes used racist arguments to get Harry Truman (also quite racist) to drop the Atomic Bomb on the yellow peoples of Japan, and how the same type of racism is at play in the current situation with our current situation. (From 28:45 to 33:00 in video below).

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bOp4VJ35hls

If you want to apply your logic here, you might what to fire up the red hot branding iron of "WOKE" and apply it to Judge Napolitano and Ray McGovern.

• There is a big difference between real Antisemitism and people exposing/criticizing Zionism and their (daily) crimes like organized genocide!
• There is a big difference between exposing real racism (which does exists) and exposing hijacked "Wokism" movement/activism using near identical NeoMarxist tactics & rhetoric right out of their playbook.

Anyone who wants to oversimplify things for or against is all part of similar generalization tactics, in my view, not doing justice to the full spectrum of the truth.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[Mike]

Posted by christian (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
I don't see college kids making any sacrifices at all. Living in tents is an adventure for a young adult. There's the camaraderie and all the social credit that goes along with it as well. They only have stuff to gain, and nothing to lose. It now represents the orthodox position, so theres nothing particularly gutsy or rebellious about it either.

What's the actual commitment and impact of student protesters expressing solidarity with Palestine? That's a good question. I believe that speaking out is already a net benefit in and of itself. Speaking out against injustice is better than staying silent. It helps raise awareness. It takes courage to take a public stand that may put you in danger. I agree that setting up a camp is not the epitome of selfless heroism, but there are costs and dangers involved. You have to pay for your participation. You can't enjoy yourself or make money elsewhere while you're at a protest camp (unless you're a paid protester, of course), but you still have to pay your bills. You can gain social credit, but not everyone likes this kind of activism. There can be negative repercussions, and many activists have felt this personally.

Public dissent can help focus intention for further steps. I have seen many grassroots charities in Berlin raising money to support Palestinians. I hope that US protesters also put their money where their mouth is. I guess most won't give away their life savings (and they probably shouldn't because helping others shouldn't be debilitating), but any support is better than nothing.

I agree with you that it's not enough to be aware of a problem, to point it out publicly, and to demand solutions. Solving a problem requires personal responsibility and creative action. That's a recurring theme in the alternative media as well. In fact, moving from awareness to creative action is the main theme of Avalon. It says on the homepage, the principal purpose of the Avalon forum is "to encourage and support positive, constructive, and high-quality dialog and networking with the goal of creating the future on Planet Earth for ourselves and our children that we want to experience."

Most of humanity has been trapped in abusive systems for a long time, and people have long been unaware, unable, or unwilling to do anything about it. Despite the inadequacies of present-day activism, I think it's also important to note that activism has become more powerful and efficient than ever before in history. This has been beautifully summarized by Paul Hawken, it's in this thread.

You keep referring to yourself as a cynic. George Carlin said, "Scratch any cynic and you will find a disappointed idealist."

It's not wrong to look at the current situation with the student protests from the perspective that you do. You're making legitimate observations. The problems that you describe are real.

I'm interested in doing something right now to make a positive difference. I've found that my awareness and focus greatly influence my creative output, so I'm careful not to focus too much on problems once I recognize them, but on things that I can be grateful for and ways in which I can affect positive change. It keeps my spirit up, it puts a spring in my step, it empowers me to find creative ways to collaborate and have genuinely constructive interactions, and that's how I want to live.

Posted by Mike (here)
How many of those college protestors do you think would give up their smart phones for Palestine? I mean it. Serious question. Imagine for a moment they couldn't afford another one for 6 months...or a year.

I'm not answering your question, but I tell you why. I'd rather be busy looking for ways to help these protesters do something they are ready, willing, and able to do, than to be busy dwelling on what these protesters don't or won't do.

You and your Zen answers...damn you! I respect what you're saying because I can see that you're sincere. And I appreciate the position because it's balanced and grounded. And I think the Carlin quote applies. Touche.

But it appears I'll be forced to answer my own questions. So, I would say: whether it's lite mild, mild, medium, hot, or xtra hot woke, almost none of them would be willing to give up their smartphones for the Palestinian cause. In fact, my strong guess is that were I to walk these protests and ask that question, I'd be accused of microaggressions, some form of oppression, or "stochastic terrorism" (that's sort of a new one that hasn't really gained any ground yet...but just wait).

Protests are the perfect opportunity for narcissists to signal their virtue without ever having to actually demonstrate it. This applies to men more than women I think.

Women, on the other hand - particularly college-aged women - are highly emotional creatures, and use these types of events as an excuse to discharge their excessive emotion...whether they realize it or not.

Those won't be popular opinions most likely, but that's how I see it. But this is why I keep saying I trust people, not movements. There are some sincere, earnest people protesting, but they'll inevitably become overwhelmed by the psychic energy of the crowd. It's nearly impossible to avoid that fate.

Every so often you get someone who is strong enough to resist that sort of thing, but it's exceedingly rare. Rachel Corrie is one such person. Bill posted about her here. She was crushed by a bulldozer while trying to prevent the destruction of a Palestinian home.

[christian]

Posted by Mike (here)
In fact, my strong guess is that were I to walk these protests and ask that question, I'd be accused of microaggressions, some form of oppression, or "stochastic terrorism" (that's sort of a new one that hasn't really gained any ground yet...but just wait).

I had a similar experience at an antifa protest in Leipzig in 2020. I wanted to get a statement for my YouTube channel. At first nobody wanted to talk. I joined the protest march and ten minutes later six people came up to me and said that someone else had looked up my channel and that I should leave now because I'm "right-wing." I asked them what they thought was right-wing about me and that I consider myself an anarchist. They just referred to the other person who had looked up my channel, but that person wasn't one of the people who was talking to me. Anyway, they wanted me to leave. I told them it's their event, and if they don't want me there, I would certainly leave. But I asked them, wouldn't it be good to explain to me where I'm wrong, so I can learn something before I leave, or even better, how about I be allowed to stay so I can listen to their speeches. One young guy of the six then apologized, saying that he was sorry if there was a misunderstanding, but in any case, the rest wanted me to leave, so I left.

I think it was bound to happen, because I was against lockdowns and they were literally protesting against people like me. I just wanted to talk, but it didn't happen, except for the short conversation where they told me to leave. It was a weird time, and I didn't like how society was becoming more polarized and people were putting a lot of effort into hating other groups, but none into talking to members of that other group.

In your hypothetical example of asking people at a Palestine protest what they'd be willing to give up to support Palestine, I assume many would give you a more or less honest answer, but some would certainly accuse you of all sorts of things. Whenever you go to some huge gathering of whatever group, you're likely to run into at least a few extremists. You may hear some bull**** from these extremists, but don't let it make you bitter or hate the person. Don't let it spoil your encounters with the other individuals either.

Posted by Mike (here)
But this is why I keep saying I trust people, not movements.

There's a Carlin quote for that too: "People are wonderful. I love individuals. I hate groups of people. I hate a group of people with a 'common purpose.' Cause pretty soon they have little hats. And armbands. And fight songs. And a list of people they're going to visit at 3am. So, I dislike and despise groups of people but I love individuals. Every person you look at; you can see the universe in their eyes, if you're really looking."

[Denise/Dizi]

Another UGH moment... Feel free to pass over... Just having a moment of "Tired of the nonsense"...

If we want to small scale break down what we are seeing here... and leaving out any kind of manipulation from groups above with their own agendas, and reasons for why creating such a scene would benefit them, we could boil this all down to individuals seeing something that is so out of the normal environment that they live in, that they see as barbaric... And wanting to let everyone know that it's wrong. And that's good they see that it isn't right, BUT......

In America, as well as other nations where people behave in a "Social contract" kind of way... we are very "Tamed" to believe we are safe and that bad things no longer happen here. We have those in power wanting to take our arms, and feed us promises of police protection, when really, 99.9% of their own interactions with "Police" are negative, in that they are not at all being help, but rather being used as a means of income or revenue collection. Tickets, fines, etc... The police in my area are no longer allowed to help you if you run out of gas, or break down on a busy highway. We have been led to believe that we live in a happy shiny bubble, where everyone lives like the Cleavers from "Leave it to Beaver"...

Right now California is falling apart as many are waking up to the fact that in mass, they can do whatever they want, as the governments and police force, really CAN'T stop their theft, and illegal behaviors, if they are perpetrated in mass... IE stores are closing in droves as they're robbed and the police have a hands off policy... As people are robbing them in mass, filling up entire shopping carts with thousands of dollars worth of items, and merely walking out.

These same individuals, in their outrage, demanding the beheading of a school official? Probably are trying to give the sense of just how barbaric they believe the conditions of those in Palistine are living under... And by suggesting as much, they're trying to prove a point...

Welcome to the real world...

But it is all a facade of a social contract we are engaging in with one another... And there are many who don't abide by that same social contract... Especially those who were not raised here, but migrate here... where they are from somewhere that social contracts of ethical and friendly behavior is absolutely NOT the norm. Eventually they become part of the whole, engaging in this type of social contract, because it is better than what they left, while many capatilize on the niavity of such a facade...

Our governments all know this, and just how fragile that "social contract" is... But these kids seem fully unaware of this, and just how fragile such a system is... They truly believe we are all somehow more evolved than our neighbors on other continents... And in their marches and protests, they're really telling our government and institutions that they demand THEY go and create that same "social contract" there... Really? Do they truly believe that America can force such a thing, on a nation that has been fighting forever, over soil and boundaries? Are these kids dillusional? Have they been brought up in a "Safety bubble" that keeps them from realizing we live in a unique environment that requires we all work together for the whole?

These are the same kids fighting for our own slavery, without even recognizing that is what it is...

THIS IS NOT THE NORM in many countries... What are these kids learning in school???

As such, we get a bunch of "Participation trophy" winners, who believe that yelling about something, and having a fit in public will somehow shock their neighbors into better behaviors... (Much like being "written up" if you do something your boss doesn't like, or social credit scores)... Because their behaviors have been molded in such a way that threats of discipline have molded them into who they are now...

Those same individuals really need to look at other societies or merely travel down the southern border of America to quickly learn, this is NOT how most live... They behave like spoiled little brats until someone gets sick of their cries of displeasure, and hands them a "Piece of candy".... Or punishes them in some way, with fines, removal of some reward.... etc.

In some of the areas they are claiming they are protesting for, or "Fighting for peace".... They would be the first beheaded for the way they are behaving... For being weak ... If they were offered to opportunity to go to Palistine and protest alohg with those actually starving and being killed, they would certainly decline the invitation... And many of these same individuals probably walk across the street, when they come across a homeless camp, for fear of being robbed, and or hurt. Would they give food to someone starving and standing at a freeway offramp? I doubt it, those people can be "Scary".. Or worse, seen as a nuisance, and living outside of the social contract they live within....

Yet these are the same individuals who are claiming to support those now starving... Again, I see pretty signs, but no food drives being sponsored... I do not see them taking up arms, to fight off the Israelies... To supress those from within that are also abusing the Palestinians... It's all word salad, keyboard warriors engaging in some self righteous role playing game of real life, where they want to be seen as "Part of the solution" yet doing nothing to affect the real situation, other than taking away resources from something else.

I think I can speak for most when I say that what is happening is tragic. but truly, most nations who now live within social contracts, FOUGHT to this point... Many were killed fighting for what they believed in... And as such, that is what we are seeing playing out. War is not pleasant, it isn't merely writing someone's name on a piece of paper for being "Naughty"... And no matter how many nights they trespass onto the property of others, really they're just engaging in the behaviors they are claiming to be fighting against... But they're too priviledged to recognize it. And they do nothing to help those in their own nation that need help.. That requires REAL EFFORT, not just an evening of showmanship...

No matter which way I look t this, I just get disgusted by these "Kids" who truly believe they're helping anyone, when really they're just behaving like spoiled brats. I doubt any of those in Palistine would care what they're doing, or warn them that their behavior is the same kind of behavior that can perpetuate the advancement of what they're already dealing with. It will never fix anything, nor will it change any policies, or get them any support from our institutions...

To me this isn't "Woke" it is those fully under the illusion that someone else will be their savior... If they just call that savior loud enough... UGH...

[Mike]

I suppose this could go in any of the woke threads, but feels especially relevant here.

This is a 27 minute video of a "pro-Palestinian" campus protest at New Mexico State last May, and the police intervention that ensued.

These kids are lunatics. They're not pro-Palestine. They're anti-sanity.

It's noted at the end of the video that only 5 of the arrested protestors were actually students at the university, providing further proof that these little uprisings are less organic and more the result of outside manipulation.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ncTB0nbJU_A

[Mike]

Radical woke lefty fatally shoots 2 Israeli embassy staffers outside a Jewish museum in Washington D.C., shouting "Free Palestine!" as he was led away in handcuffs:

About 3 mins:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=I2KdytfCo04

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Mike (here)
Radical woke lefty fatally shoots 2 Israeli embassy staffers outside a Jewish museum in Washington D.C., shouting "Free Palestine!" as he was led away in handcuffs:

About 3 mins:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=I2KdytfCo04

If these radical woke lefties start a pattern of randomly and frequently assassinating people, well, all hell is going to break loose. People with normal brains will not put up with this s**t.

[Raskolnikov]

I gotta say it: "I absolutely hate this vile monster." This statement just reinforces my opinion that he's somehow responsible for the killing in hopes of further justifying his obliteration of Gaza. "Heil Hitler?" Anytime someone brings up Hitler nowadays you know they're either lying, brainwashed, or the aptly named "anti-sanity" group you mentioned earlier Mike. Why does everything today feel like a bad script coming out of Hollywood?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2RfuCtF_-dw

[Mike]

Posted by Raskolnikov (here)
I gotta say it: "I absolutely hate this vile monster." This statement just reinforces my opinion that he's somehow responsible for the killing in hopes of further justifying his obliteration of Gaza. "Heil Hitler?" Anytime someone brings up Hitler nowadays you know they're either lying, brainwashed, or the aptly named "anti-sanity" group you mentioned earlier Mike. Why does everything today feel like a bad script coming out of Hollywood?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2RfuCtF_-dw

He's a polarizing guy. And yeah, evoking Hitler - much like evoking racism - means almost nothing in an age when it is evoked so liberally and so stupidly.

I think intelligent people can disagree about the situation in Gaza; instead of taking sides in this particular thread, my goal was to highlight the woke/radical left's hijacking of the "free Palestine" movement. That isn't to suggest I think the sentiment - when uttered by sincere and honest players - isn't valid. The point is that this valid sentiment has become the slogan of sick, narcissistic, arrogant, and sometimes evil players hellbent on destroying the west. It's been co-opted for manipulative and destructive purposes.

The lesson here: If a movement is dominated by woke student radicals and Islamists, run the other way!(even if it appears to be at least superficially justified)

[Raskolnikov]

Posted by Mike (here)
He's a polarizing guy. And yeah, evoking Hitler - much like evoking racism - means almost nothing in an age when it is evoked so liberally and so stupidly.

I think intelligent people can disagree about the situation in Gaza; instead of taking sides in this particular thread, my goal was to highlight the woke/radical left's hijacking of the "free Palestine" movement. That isn't to suggest I think the sentiment - when uttered by sincere and honest players - isn't valid. The point is that this valid sentiment has become the slogan of sick, narcissistic, arrogant, and sometimes evil players hellbent on destroying the west. It's been co-opted for manipulative and destructive purposes.

The lesson here: If a movement is dominated by woke student radicals and Islamists, run the other way!(even if it appears to be at least superficially justified)

Probably should've posted that somewhere else, but the subject came up in this thread so...

The fact that the woke began protesting for Palestine really caught me by surprise and even made me wonder, "Am I wrong on this subject?" Everything else this deranged mob has fought for has been clearly the opposite or inversion of what they say it is, everything from BLM and Antifa to climate change and covid. It's always been clear they're being used and are easily misled. To be fair, I think many come from a place of good intentions, but the ptb have cunningly managed to manipulate their good intentions through heavy propaganda, drugs (prescription or otherwise), mind control and emfs, and on and on.

"The point is that this valid sentiment has become the slogan of sick, narcissistic, arrogant, and sometimes evil players hellbent on destroying the west. It's been co-opted for manipulative and destructive purposes." I completely agree. It is telling how quickly he came out with that statement after the murders, reminiscent of say the Patriot Act and "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists" of 9/11. Simply amazed at their ability to steer the dialogue with "random" acts of violence to distract and enrage an unwitting public.

When "the woke/radical left's hijacking of the 'free Palestine' movement" occurred my mind boggled. It appeared so off script. It seemed a new level of gamesmanship on the global stage wherein this woke group is being used to protest for Palestine in clear contrast to the ptb's desire for Palestine's complete and total eradication. Manipulate the woke to the point of violence, clearly their m.o., so that Israel can justify and continue with their Gaza campaign, to put it nicely.

As your videos show, these woke radicals have lost all discernment, if they ever had it, and are truly Non-Player Characters, easily controlable in this game, expendable pawns willingly sacrificed for the agenda.

[Mike]

Posted by Raskolnikov (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
He's a polarizing guy. And yeah, evoking Hitler - much like evoking racism - means almost nothing in an age when it is evoked so liberally and so stupidly.

I think intelligent people can disagree about the situation in Gaza; instead of taking sides in this particular thread, my goal was to highlight the woke/radical left's hijacking of the "free Palestine" movement. That isn't to suggest I think the sentiment - when uttered by sincere and honest players - isn't valid. The point is that this valid sentiment has become the slogan of sick, narcissistic, arrogant, and sometimes evil players hellbent on destroying the west. It's been co-opted for manipulative and destructive purposes.

The lesson here: If a movement is dominated by woke student radicals and Islamists, run the other way!(even if it appears to be at least superficially justified)

Probably should've posted that somewhere else, but the subject came up in this thread so...

The fact that the woke began protesting for Palestine really caught me by surprise and even made me wonder, "Am I wrong on this subject?" Everything else this deranged mob has fought for has been clearly the opposite or inversion of what they say it is, everything from BLM and Antifa to climate change and covid. It's always been clear they're being used and are easily misled. To be fair, I think many come from a place of good intentions, but the ptb have cunningly managed to manipulate their good intentions through heavy propaganda, drugs (prescription or otherwise), mind control and emfs, and on and on.

"The point is that this valid sentiment has become the slogan of sick, narcissistic, arrogant, and sometimes evil players hellbent on destroying the west. It's been co-opted for manipulative and destructive purposes." I completely agree. It is telling how quickly he came out with that statement after the murders, reminiscent of say the Patriot Act and "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists" of 9/11. Simply amazed at their ability to steer the dialogue with "random" acts of violence to distract and enrage an unwitting public.

When "the woke/radical left's hijacking of the 'free Palestine' movement" occurred my mind boggled. It appeared so off script. It seemed a new level of gamesmanship on the global stage wherein this woke group is being used to protest for Palestine in clear contrast to the ptb's desire for Palestine's complete and total eradication. Manipulate the woke to the point of violence, clearly their m.o., so that Israel can justify and continue with their Gaza campaign, to put it nicely.

As your videos show, these woke radicals have lost all discernment, if they ever had it, and are truly Non-Player Characters, easily controlable in this game, expendable pawns willingly sacrificed for the agenda.

Well said

It really is confusing! The woke don't just co-opt movements like these, they co-opt language in general (i.e. "violence" "safety" "white supremacy" ..and most notoriously all the language around sex and "gender"). Often they're speaking the same language as everyone else but with entirely different meanings. It's all done deliberately.

In effect they've created what James Lindsay calls a simulacrum, or a false reality superimposed on objective reality. It's done thru language, and creates all kinds of disorientation. It forces the average person to be constantly vigilant of this misdirection. It's exhausting.

This particular conflict interests the woke so much because it most easily overlaps with their contrived struggle. But to sum it up: Israel, to them, is the west. And they hate the west and everything they believe it represents ("patriarchy", "white supremacy", "colonization" etc.) They view the Israelis as "white colonizers", determined to undermine and "oppress" the Palestinians ("people of color"). Also, Jews are very inconvenient for their woke narrative, because they represent a very successful minority.