What fiction books are you reading currently?

[grapevine]

Indecent Proposal, John Englehard. It's a compelling read and far deeper and more complex than depicted in the erotic but lightweight film.

[Mike]

Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
Persist, if you can, Mike.

For me, Lolita is an utter paradox, defying definition. It is one of best-written books I've ever read, a most superlative example of sweeping, agonizingly beautiful prose, yet depicting the most disturbing, disgusting protagonist imaginable; you cannot help but loath the cruel, degenerate sonofabitch, and want him dead by the end.

As a literary piece -- and it is literary fiction (so not everyone's taste) -- it's pure tour de force; as content, matter and theme, it's only fit to be flushed down the toilet. It's the only way I can describe this book, which I've read three times. Go figure!

Persisting! I'll make it to the end. I'm a stubborn bastard. I read Infinite Jest!

Some of the passages are beautifully written. I deeply admire the whole cross country escape bits, the way he creates tension and anxiety while never once using the words 'tension' or 'anxiety' . It's marvelous and skillful in ways only a unique talent like Nabokov could pull off. High art. But for me it just drags on and on and it can't end soon enough.

I don't mind morally repugnant characters in fiction. I even felt sorry for Humbert in spots, believe it or not. Such is the skill of Nabokov. When moral relativism is presented that cleverly you cant help but be swayed in spots. I think he's daring us to ask ourselves if things are naturally wrong or only wrong because society arbitrarily says so. I'm not a moral relativist or a pedo sympathizer, but I was forced to consider some of Humbert's polemics, much like I was forced to consider what's his name's in The Brothers Karamazov. Very few writers can make you do that. It's what makes them transcendent instead of merely good.

It's a paradox in many ways, the book. And the way readers interpret it varies greatly. I suppose that's a mark of high accomplishment. But I can barely stay awake when I read it. It just doesn't reach me.. what can i say?

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Well answered. And you're right, he skilfully meanders between so many difficult themes, and many times does indeed tantalise your sympathy (for Humbert), as one might for one mentally ill, because he is, in profound ways. Likewise, and conversely, he arouses irritation for the girl -- for stringing him along the way she often does when she has ample opportunity to leave him, or blow the whistle. There's an element of Stockholm Syndrome at play throughout, and it's difficult to get your head around.

I will add, what is perhaps most remarkable about that book is Nabokov, a Russian, didn't write it in Russian (later to be translated) but in English, I think a third language for him (after French -- the book has many French passages). For a foreign speaker, his mastery of English is amazing. Writing a book in your own tongue is hard enough, in a foreign one? That boggles my mind.

[Mike]

Mark you've forced me to confront my irritation towards the girl...damn you lol. One more thing to feel guilty about...

Well, sociopaths make great intellectual arguments! And this book - as Humbert's memoiry sort of thing - is meant to justify Humbert's actions to a court. No coincidence that he has cast the girl in this way. Of course we, the readers, are the court. And Nabokov, as Humbert, is challenging our sense of morality with his clever narrative. At least that's the way I interpret the book (so far anyway. still not quite done with it).

Any rational, clear-thinking, and morally centered person will find themselves feeling frustrated when a sociopath like Humbert makes what appears to be a clever and logical argument against the morality they hold so near and dear (and take for granted). I've caught myself feeling this way from time to time, and I had something of a revelation finally, and it goes something like this: true morality doesn't require endless intellectualization and doesn't need to be intellectually defended. We just know when something is right or wrong. You might say God informs us, or our conscience (maybe God is our conscience) or (fill in the blank). But we just know, and getting bogged down in morally relativistic debates is exactly what the sociopath wants.

I wrote in my previous post that the book didn't reach me; I said this once in a creative writing class in college about a Hemingway book, and the teacher said (paraphrase): "Maybe you need to do the reaching." I thought it was a good point. Lolita reached me in the sense that it made me think quite a bit about a number of deeply philosophical things. So maybe Nabokov's purpose was accomplished in a way. Oh, and I deeply resent that he writes so much better than me in his 3rd language .. that sh!t's just obnoxious

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by Mike (here)
But we just know, and getting bogged down in morally relativistic debates is exactly what the sociopath wants.

Absolutely! Especially when you consider most strongly that Humbert shows every sign of being a classic unreliable narrator. We only have his side of the story. If we imagine for a moment this was a true story, then the girl's side would be very different, and probably a hundred times more moving, upsetting and tragic. Humbert's entire narrative is built on the premise of 'hey, it's not my fault, well not completely...' He paints himself as the victim -- the barbarian poet, so bitterly misunderstood. He weaves such pretty webs, too, trying to elicit your love and pity. To the undiscerning reader, he doubtless succeeds in places.

One thing to look out for (it may take multiple readings), and that's subtext. The book, I believe, is encoded with hidden meanings. Some are clearly metaphors for graphic sexual scenarios, but others are more obscure. Many times, I remember being confused by a sentence or passage. Either he was being too clever for me, or these were coded messages, maybe subversive in nature. For the modest times it was written in (1950s), not an unheard of thing. If you spot any and figure them out, do let me know

[Ernie Nemeth]

Sunstorm, Arthur C Clark - Stephen Baxter.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Weapons Grade - Tom Clancy and Don Bentley

[Mari]

The Wheel Of Time series by Robert Jordan. Medieval-ish fantasy. I've just finished the first one in the series and there are 13 more to go.....grrrreat