Stirling Heat Engine + Heat (Fuel) Pump = Limitless Energy

[Tom Booth]

About the title of this thread: Stirling Heat Engine + Heat (Fuel) Pump = Limitless Energy

I say "Stirling Heat engine" specifically, because Stirling engines are rather "special" heat engines.

Virtually every engine; engines that run on gasoline, diesel, or propane are considered "Heat" engines, though they require fuel of some kind. Stirling engines, however, use "heat" itself as "fuel". The heat to fuel a Stirling engine can come from anywhere, gasoline, diesel, propane, wood, sunlight, warm "waste" process water, coal, methane, the heat from burning hydrogen gas, electric heating elements, Peltier devices, geothermal, even your own body heat, and perhaps most controversially, ubiquitous environmental heat present everywhere.

It is very easy to gather up and concentrate environmental heat using a heat pump. Heat can be MOVED from one location where is serves no purpose to another location where it becomes useful. A heat pump can be used to move heat from outdoors to indoors to heat your home, or from indoors to outdoors to cool your home. This can be accomplished using much LESS energy to simply MOVE the heat than the energy that is represented by the heat itself.

Here is a video of a simple hand operated heat pump:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Hx4tXKo8yLw

This is the same as a refrigerator/freezer or air conditioner just striped down to the bare essentials, or ALMOST the bare essentials. Aside from the compressor in the middle, the two radiators on either side are really just one long continuous loop of copper tubing. The tubing is arranged in the form of a "radiator" simply for compactness. In other cases, the tubing may be stretched out as seen on the back of many refrigerators:



The tubing could just as well be made into (or left as) a circular spiral:



Most refrigeration tubing is sold already rolled up in a spiral.

Now here is a video of a simple Stirling engine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g0FHZzP7T8

Stirling engines of this basic type and size are able to produce at least as much as 500 watts if provided with some actual heat input.

It should be easy to see how some coils of hot and/or cold refrigerator/heat pump tubing could go inside a large flat "Low Temperature" Stirling engine of this type without any problem.

The problem I've had over the past 15 years or so, attempting to discuss this subject on various forums on the internet is that the discussion will often be immediately shut down by the forum moderators as being in violation of the forums "terms of service".

It seems that virtually all online science and physics forums as well as many general engineering and other general topic forums have rules against discussion of "perpetual motion".

On other forums where the topic is not explicitly forbidden, in my experience, the discussion will sooner or later be shut down one way or another.

The various tactics I've experienced are "dogpiling" (defined as: "a number of people join in directing critical or abusive comments at another person). spamming the thread with reams of meaningless or irrelevant gibberish, Hacking the forum and posting explicit pornography and/or pornographic links into the thread and/or posts containing tracking, contacting the forum owner by PM and/or making numerous reports about the thread using multiple fake usernames or "sock puppets" cloaked IP addresses and throw away email addresses, hacking the forum, threatening the forum owner with legal consequences, including sending letters from lawyers to the forum owners home address, "doxing", etc. etc.

Not very long ago, the owner of the Stirling Engine forum I frequented for many years knew me well enough and was fair minded enough that he refused to cave in to the pressure that was put on him to have me removed from the forum. Instead, he had informed me that he was going to ban THEM from the forum. The day he told me via PM that he was going to confront one of these people and more than likely ban them from the forum if they did not stop stalking and harassing me, he rather unexpectedly died sitting in front of his doctor during (according to his family) what was supposed to be a routine checkup. Needless to say, with the forum owner gone, the offending party was free to continue posting.

All this seems rather remarkable and unbelievable, even to me, because, well, ... I'm a retired engine mechanic who has been doing nothing very remarkable, just experimenting with small cheap model Stirling Engines that are readily available to anyone. My intention, at least from the outset, was never to build any kind of "free energy" machine or go up against the Oil industry, I was just trying to find out how ordinary Stirling engines work so I could build one to run off my wood stove, or thermal/solar.

It seems the internet in general is full of paid shills and provocateurs (people who will instigate various problems on a forum) on the lookout for any mention about the topic of combining a heat engine and heat pump using the heat pump as a "fuel pump" to deliver the heat to the heat engine.

Now, every gasoline powered truck, or automobile uses a FUEL PUMP that is directly or indirectly powered by the engine. Does anyone consider that to be "perpetual motion"? ... a heat engine operating a fuel pump that provides fuel to the heat engine that powers the fuel pump that delivers the fuel that powers the engine that powers the fuel pump...

Well, that sounds like perpetual motion, but in actuality it takes less energy to deliver the fuel to the engine then the energy needed to run the fuel pump...

But is not that also true of a Heat Pump? A heat pump can deliver several times more energy in the form of heat than the energy required to run the fuel pump itself, it is easy to MOVE heat or move ENERGY.

It doesn't take much energy to carry a can of fuel (gasoline) from someone's garage and pour the fuel into a car's gas tank. It only requires a small amount of energy to MOVE fuel from a place where it is not useful to a place where it becomes very useful.

So, it seems very obvious that if a heat pump can move several times more energy in the form of heat than the energy required to operate the heat pump then using a heat pump as a "fuel pump" to deliver heat to operate a Stirling engine is a "no brainer".

A LOT of people come up with this idea, then open a thread on a Science or Physics forum with a title something like: "hey, couldn't a heat pump be used to run a Stirling engine?" and there are A LOT of people ready to immediately shut down the conversation, lock the thread, remove the thread to the "Junk" or "trash" or "pseudoscience" discard bin while generally abusing and ridiculing the OP as a "free energy" / "perpetual motion" / "zero-point energy" / "pseudoscience" nutcase or crackpot then dox them and ban them from the forum.

Case in point, my most recent foray on a German Language forum:

A forum member on the thread went to the trouble of finding my address and posting a photo of the house I'm currently living in:

https://www.allmystery.de/themen/gw113123-2848

Currently I restore Historic buildings and homes. Often while working on a place I may also live there.

So, I'm currently fixing up an old historic home. Big deal. We may actually keep this one to live in.

These people do not intimidate me.

Anyway, it seems whenever I start posting that I'm in the process of building some experimental prototype, the attacks on the forums seem to ramp up. After the Stirling engine forum owner passed away, that forum went away as nobody paid the hosting fee. The owner somehow made a backup of the forum, but with no moderator, it has become unusable, overrun with spam.

Anyway, building a combination Stirling Engine / Heat Pump should not be particularly difficult. I think I have already gathered all the necessary components to put together a working prototype or small working model.



I've started threads of this nature before, but they generally get derailed. These people will start posting page after page of garbage posts that make the topic impossible to follow, or I'm banned or the thread is locked, or the forum shut down.

I've also been reluctant to put together an experimental machine, build a working model or prototype, without an "audience" of some sort due to the persistent stories about how such prototypes are confiscated as soon as they are built. Not much benefit would be derived in that case.

In the past, I have always uploaded my Stirling engine experiments to YouTube immediately, often while the experiment is ongoing before I even know what the outcome will be myself.

Poking around here, this forum has a ton of "free energy" type material, which kind of makes me wonder how it has survived.

I suppose being limited access / invitation-only helps. It also seems probable that this forum is actually a CIA front designed to keep tabs on people like me. Who knows?

Whatever the case, I'll try giving it another go.

[rgray222]

Many of us share a keen interest in limitless, affordable, or free energy. Over the years, members have explored various approaches, and to my knowledge, the CIA has never shown up on their doorstep. I am sure there are quite a few members and guests who would like to hear more about your ideas and any experiments you're working on. Looking forward to your contributions! I recommend that you take a look at Wade Fraziers threat titled - WADE FRAZIER: A Healed Planet

[Tom Booth]

Posted by rgray222 (here)
Many of us share a keen interest in limitless, affordable, or free energy. Over the years, members have explored various approaches, and to my knowledge, the CIA has never shown up on their doorstep. I am sure there are quite a few members and guests who would like to hear more about your ideas and any experiments you're working on. Looking forward to your contributions! I recommend that you take a look at Wade Fraziers threat titled - WADE FRAZIER: A Healed Planet

I believe I've read through all of Wade's material relevant to this subject. Unfortunately, as he expressed in the interview: "The ride was too rough for me"

https://projectavalon.net/wade_frazi...march_2009.mp3

and seems to be disinterested in revisiting the topic.

I recently came across this episode of the Why Files posted on another thread:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...nd-antigravity

that attributes much of the motivation for the US government's suppression of energy technologies that could compete with oil to the 1974 "Petrodollar agreement" between Saudi Arabia and the United States.

Time stamp: 12:00 - 12:35

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-ZRwlYtAMps

Apparently, the agreement expired last year:

https://chaipredict.com/resources/ex...llar-agreement

I'd love to hear Wade's views on the subject, but he seems to be distancing himself for reasons that are understandable, considering what he went through.

Anyway, I've experienced so many apparently well organized, vicious, relentless "attacks", censorship, banning, etc. on the various online forums for simply trying to discuss the subject objectively I have some difficulty dismissing the suppression horror stories reported by actual inventors and builders of working prototypes.

I say these "attacks" on me seem to be well organized because this has been ongoing for years. Forum moderators have contacted me telling me about unusual activity on their servers, private messages received, hacking, etc. all specifically targeting me in an effort to prevent me from simply posting my ideas and simple kitchen table experiments.

Repeatedly, one of the "attackers" would get into an argument with me, that might go on for weeks, then suddenly someone using the same username on the forum would be completely clueless on the subject. This happened repeatedly, so many times, I became quite certain that there is some kind of "shill mill". Different people. different personalities with different views and opinions working in shifts sitting down at a terminal somewhere.

Anyway, I press on.

I just completed a little sketch or concept drawing of a combined Low Temperature Difference style Stirling engine / Heat pump combination where the evaporator and condenser coils of the heat pump are incorporated right into the hot and cold Stirling engine heat exchangers.

[Tom Booth]

In studying various types of refrigeration systems, I came across a very interesting phenomenon.

Here is an illustration of your most basic refrigeration cycle:





Just a pump/compressor pulling air or refrigerant out from one end of a tube and pushing the air/refrigerant back into the other end of the same tube in a continuous loop.

In order for this to be a refrigeration cycle, though, the tube needs to have a restriction in the middle so that as the compressor/pump draws air out from one end a partial vacuum is created in one side of the tube, then as the air/refrigerant is pushed out into the other end of the tube, that gas, air or refrigerant is held back by the restriction so that pressure builds up on the other side of the restriction.

The compressed gas on one side gets HOT but after passing through the restriction the gas expands and gets cold.

If the hot gas is allowed to cool down before it passes through the restriction it will then become much colder when it passes through to the other side.

Now, another method of refrigeration was discovered. In this new method, there is the same basic setup, but instead of a simple restriction in the line, the restriction (or "expansion valve" or "capillary") is replaced with a compressed air driven motor.



The compressed air driven motor can, or actually MUST, for it to function properly so as to produce a refrigerating effect, be used to power something. And this is the remarkable thing.

By having the compressed air driven motor powering something external to the refrigeration system, energy is effectively taken out of the air/gas/refrigerant as it passes through and drives the motor (or turbine, or "expansion engine").

This additional energy removal causes the refrigerant to become much MUCH COLDER than it gets just passing through a simple valve.

It is even possible to turn around and use the compressed air driven motor to help or assist in driving the compressor that compressed the air or refrigerant in the first place.

Jeff Nading had informed me about this type of refrigeration system way back in 2012, but at the time I think it went over my head:

https://open-source-energy.org/?topi...sg4236#msg4236

So, in essence, by "reclaiming" energy by using an expansion ENGINE or turbine (essentially just an air driven motor) not only is energy recovered, but the refrigeration effect is enhanced. The refrigerant gets MUCH COLDER.

Interesting also is this type of "turbo-refrigeration" is well suited to using ordinary atmospheric air as the refrigerant.

In the above combined Stirling Engine / Heat Pump "concept drawing" it can be seen how this phenomenon of energy recovery along with enhanced cooling power is taken advantage of 1) to reduce the load on the Stirling engine and 2) to increase the effective temperature difference.

The greater the temperature difference, the more powerful the Stirling engine becomes.

[Tom Booth]

Constructing a combined Stirling Engine / Heat pump with a built-in Turboexpander, while it might work, in theory, could be enormously difficult and expensive to implement, even as a small prototype. Turbines, generally, require precision manufacturing.

There may be an easier way to test this concept however:

After many years of observation and experimentation I have come to the conclusion that Stirling engines DO NOT operate in the way that has been supposed for the past century.

It is well known that an ordinary Stirling engine itself will act as a HEAT PUMP if DRIVEN by a motor. It is generally supposed that the Stirling engine must be driven by the motor IN REVERSE.

This assumption, however, appears to be wrong.

A Stirling engine acts as a HEAT PUMP All the time, even during normal operation.

The above statement is, to say the least, controversial. suggesting that a century or more of thermodynamic assumptions and heat engine theory are wrong, or at least inapplicable to Stirling engines.

A Stirling engine. from my years of observation and testing, appears to be a HEAT Powered Heat Pump.

The Stirling engine DOES NOT take in heat from the HOT SIDE and transfer that heat over to the COLD SIDE, as universally assumed to be the case. Watch a dozen YouTube videos and read a dozen written explanations about "How a Stirling Engine Works" and they ALL say the same thing. They say that heat flows THROUGH the engine from the hot side to the cold side.

The "FACT" that a Stirling engine operates by transferring heat from the hot side to the cold side is often demonstrated by putting ice on top of the engine. This action causes the engine to run observably faster and stronger, the assumption being that the ice increases the temperature difference which increases the heat flow through the engine from the hot side to the cold side. In other words, the heat "FALLS" faster or TRANSFERS across from the hot side to the cold side faster.

Here are some examples of such demonstrations:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=6Y4eXS9o_cM

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q5QEBqjkNjo

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ALzP5r7z0uU

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=taDHMw38aE0

The general assumption is that heat flows THROUGH the Stirling engine, THROUGH from the hot or warmer side and over to the "sink" and back out.

Another general assumption is that the greater the temperature difference, the FASTER this process of heat transfer takes place, that is, more heat FLOWS THROUGH THE ENGINE FASTER so naturally the engine runs faster, and this APPEARS to be observably true.

Put one of these engines on a cup of hot water and let it run, then put some ice on top and it will run FASTER. Positive proof that the faster the heat flows through the engine the better it operates, just like water flowing down hill to power a turbine. APPARENTLY,


There is a little problem however with this assumption in that it leads to a paradox.

If HEAT is a form of energy, then MORE heat FLOWING THROUGH THE ENGINE FASTER and back out of the engine into the sink or "cold reservoir" means, or logically SHOULD mean, that more heat is being LOST and heat is being lost FASTER. Heat that is LOST from the engine is energy that HAS NOT BEEN CONVERTED into mechanical POWER.

That a Stirling engine should have more power by dumping more heat into ice faster contradicts conservation of energy. That is, if heat really is a form of energy. So, maybe heat really is a fluid, just as Sadi Carnot wrote in his book in 1824. Maybe Tesla was wrong, and heat is NOT a form of energy that is CONVERTED but heat is actually just a "fluid" that runs through the engine.

As a simple mechanic who just wanted to know how these engines REALLY WORK for no other reason than I wanted to build one, this became for me a conundrum. Should I design the engine to PASS HEAT THROUGH FASTER, or design the engine to RETAIN AND CONVERT HEAT, so the heat does not pass through the engine at all?

I needed to find a way to figure out the TRUE NATURE of heat itself. Is heat a fluid that flows like water as Carnot believed or is it energy that gets converted as Tesla believed? Or, is heat actually something else altogether?

So to figure this out, I did some experimenting. A LOT OF EXPERIMENTING.

MY conclusion after so many years of experimentation and carful observation is that heat is indeed ENERGY that is CONVERTED by a Stirling engine and the heat DOES NOT transfer through a Stirling heat engine to the "cold reservoir" or "heat sink" AT ALL, in fact, it appears instead that these engines take energy from the high temperature side of the engine and use that energy to "PUMP" heat BACKWARDS, taking heat from the COLD SIDE OF THE ENGINE and transferring that heat back over to the hot side where BOTH sources of heat can then be utilized in power production.

The so-called "COLD" side of a Stirling engine is not really cold, but rather, it is just a little LESS HOT. But it is still a source of heat/energy.

A Stirling engine utilizes BOTH sources of heat. That is, in essence, a Stirling engine is ALREADY, BOTH a HEAT ENGINE AND a HEAT PUMP.

Working as a heat pump the Stirling engine is transferring heat in the opposite direction from the assumed direction of "heat flow", that is, the engine is "pumping heat" from the cold side back over to the hot side, there the two sources of heat are combined and then together converted into power output.

Here is a somewhat simplified illustration of the Stirling engine cycle, with the engine running on ice:



At the peak of the compression phase, as shown above, the heat input from the bottom "hot" plate is combined together with the "heat of compression". That is, the hot plate is exposed letting heat into the engine and SIMULTANEOUSLY the air inside the engine is being COMPRESSED by the power piston elevating the temperature even further. This concentration of heat and pressure results in rapid expansion of the air inside the engine which expansion force is utilized, converted to "work" or power output.

The next phase is the expansion phase:




At the height of the expansion phase the heat source is covered/blocked by the "displacer" which acts as an insulator preventing any heat from entering into the engine. As the heated gas expands, transferring energy to the crankshaft of the engine and flywheel the air inside the engine loses energy and as a result of losing energy in the form of WORK, the air cools. Because the energy has been converted into MOMENTUM when all the energy that has been transferred into the engine as heat is entirely used up, having been converted into work, the MOMENTUM of the piston and flywheel allows the expansion and conversion of energy to continue further so that the air inside the engine loses even more energy and becomes that much COLDER. In fact, the air inside the engine becomes so cold that at full expansion, the air inside the engine becomes COLDER than the supposed "Sink" or cold side temperature. What must occur therefore, is some heat is transferred from the cold or LESS HOT side of the engine back into the cold expanded air within the engine.

This absorbed ADITIONAL HEAT taken from the cold side is then contained within the air inside the engine and during the next compression cycle contributes to and is combined together with the heat that enters the engine when the "displacer" lifts allowing additional heat to enter into the engine from the hotter side.

In other words, when a Stirling engine is "running on ice" it is not only utilizing the surrounding ambient or atmospheric or environmental heat, but it is also pulling some heat out of the ice as well, because during the height of the expansion phase the air inside the engine is COLDER than the so-called "cold reservoir" the heat is supposed to be "flowing" into. Heat cannot travel from cold to hot, so if it is colder inside the engine than outside the engine heat can only travel from the ICE INTO the engine rather than out from the engine and into the ice.

These statements are simply sober and objective observations.

These observations however, fly in the face of the conventional wisdom about how these engines operate, and in fact contradict what many believe to be "established science".

My intent in carrying out my various experiments was never to support Tesla's ideas nor contradict the "facts" of "established science" or the "laws" of thermodynamics.

My only interest was to determine conclusively, through actual experiment, how Stirling engines operate so that I might be able to construct a working engine.

[Tom Booth]

Generally speaking, though, the heat pumping action carried out by a Stirling engine is next to non-existent, so slight as to be virtually indetectable and easily overlooked.

I had originally suspected the possibility back in 2010. These suspicions were highly speculative, nevertheless I voiced my suspicion on the Stirling Engine Forum I had recently joined: https://www.stirlingengineforum.boyd...3248a03f#p1225

The response was quite negative, perhaps even hostile. It would be many years before I had the opportunity to test the theory.

As stated in 2010 my theory at that time was: "If more heat is extracted as work than what actually reaches the heat sink, then theoretically, insulating the cold end of the displacer chamber against the external ambient temperatures would improve engine efficiency."


In other words, I thought that because the engine was converting heat into work INTERNALLY so that the air inside the engine lost energy becoming cold, WITHOUT TRANSFERING HEAT TO THE SINK, then insulating the "cold" or LESS HOT side of the engine might have the same effect as placing ice on top of the engine allowing an increase in the temperature differential. If allowed to do so, by blocking heat from entering the engine THROUGHT THE COLDER OR LESS HOT SIDE, maybe the engine would COOL ITSELF through the CONVERSION of heat into work.

Anyway, ten years later, in July 2020 I kind of jokingly got around to actually carrying out the experiment. By that time, I was certain that EVERYONE had been right and insulating the top cold side of the engine would cause the engine to overheat and stall, but I decided to video record the experiment anyway. Then I could post the video to the Stirling engine forum, and we could all have a good laugh.

Well, as it turned out, the engine did not overheat and stall immediately. In fact, it continued running, covered with insulation, for another two and a half hours. Not only that, but it ran at a higher RPM than I had ever seen the engine run previously and also seemed to have more power. Later experiments confirmed that the top of the engine was not getting hot under the insulation, in fact, if anything the top of the engine was slightly cooler than room temperature.

I posted the video of these unexpected results to the Stirling Engine forum anyway. This was that first video/experiment.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fFByKkGr5bE

Many more experiments followed, trying to tighten things up and figure out what I might be doing "wrong".

In time, I also posted the videos to various science and physics forums to see what the "experts" might think.

In general, I was ridiculed and attacked as someone promoting "perpetual motion" and for that, banned. The fact is, I was not "promoting" anything, one way or the other. I just thought the real scientists could help figure out what was going on better than the mechanics and hobbyists on the model Stirling engine forum.

Anyway, in time, I figured there might be ways to "tweak" a Stirling engine so that the SELF REFRIGERATING EFFECT would be more apparent. So I made some slight modifications to one of my model engines.

Apparently, the modifications worked, because I was able to record a lower temperature on the top of the engine, without insulation on top.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=P11q-BAhvqk

I did insulate the sides to prevent heat from escaping out from the sides of the engine. Needless to say, according to generally accepted heat engine theory, heat should have been POURING OUT OF the top of that engine at a temperature MUCH HIGHER than the surrounding ambient.

The modifications I could make to this small model were quite limited and crude. I think if I were able to build an engine specifically designed for the purpose, a much greater "self-refrigerating" effect could be made apparent. If done well enough and also running the engine "on ice" it might even be possible, I think, to produce sufficient self-cooling of the engine to keep the ice frozen and keep the engine running indefinitely.

That a Stirling engine is capable of Self-cooling has been observed previously by Kenneth Rauan for example:


PDF: https://www.lenr-forum.com/attachmen...icle-ie-52-pdf

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7lBDve65dAo

[Tom Booth]

Another approach someone suggested, which I at first dismissed because of the notorious inefficiency of Peltier devices is to use a Peltier device as a "Heat Pump" to run a Stirling engine.

I was thinking in particular about Tesla's ambition to use a heat pump to create COLD in order to run a heat engine on environmental ambient heat.

Peltier devices, however, are deemed "inefficient" in terms of cooling capacity primarily because they produce an enormous amount of "waste heat".

Not only does the Peltier device MOVE perhaps 2X more heat energy than it uses in electrical energy input, but the electrical energy input is also turned into heat in the process. So the heat that needs to be dissipated includes both the concentrated ambient heat being MOVED in the manner of a heat pump but also the electrical energy input added to that heat which is "recycled" back into heat.

Not only that, but at certain controlled low power electrical input levels, even for cooling, the COP of a Peltier device can be quite high.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QWM-D_KB4o8

But the possibility of using a Peltier device as a HEAT SOURCE for a heat engine is particularly intriguing. Let's say, for 10 watts of electrical input a Peltier device might put out as much as 40 to 50 watts of "waste heat".

For a Stirling engine, this "waste heat" is not "WASTE" but FUEL.

In fact, one of the "problems" with a Peltier device is that they produce so much "waste heat" in the process of cooling or refrigeration that if the enormous amount of "waste heat" is not quickly removed using a large heat sink and cooling fan the device will quickly burn itself up.

Used as a cooling device, such large amounts of excess heat is what accounts for the perceived "Low efficiency", used as a "HEAT PUMP" for supplying heat to a Stirling engine, however, tremendous amounts of excess heat might not be a "problem".

For one thing, Stirling engines are very frugal in their heat use, so the Peltier might only need to be powered on intermittently. The "excess" heat could be transferred to an "internal heat sink" or "thermal battery" inside the engine that could act as an intermediary to maintain a constant level of heat input to the engine.

The DISPLACER inside the engine would act as a kind of COOLING FAN keeping the air inside the engine moving so as to remove heat from the hot side of the Peltier device. Some heat sensor/switch could be used to switch the Peltier device on and off as necessary to prevent overheating.

So, now, theoretically at least, not only do we have the Peltier device concentrating and MOVING large amounts of ambient heat into the Stirling engine, but the mechanical and electrical energy used from the engine to accomplish this is being reclaimed and recirculated as heat and sent back into the engine.

Is there room in this setup for EXCESS energy output?




Whatever the case, this is a rather simple setup that should be easy and inexpensive to test.

[Tom Booth]

Well. I just sent away for a "SP1848-27145 High Temperature Peltier TEG Module Thermoelectric Generator 150°C"

Apparently, from the description details, these can withstand up to 250°C before being damaged.

I already have several "normal" Peltier chips for refrigeration I was experimenting with, but those are rated for only something like 60°C

Most small model LTD type Stirling engines are designed to operate at just under 100°C but I have found that with some modification in the material construction these little engines can withstand MUCH HIGHER temperatures and even generate useable power output.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eGiJZzIkquA

These types of Peltier chips are intended mainly for generating electricity from a heat source so are designed to take some heat, but I have no real idea how they might perform in this particular application (generating heat as a heat pump). Seems worth a try anyway. At over 100°C a water bath might be used as a perhaps more practical "heat battery" to both protect the Peltier device from accidental overheating and also to store any excess heat it might produce and help to eliminate heat fluctuations.

I'm far from any kind of expert in Peltier module selection so any suggestions for a good chip to use for this experiment is welcome.

[Tom Booth]

The various arguments against this sort of thing based on thermodynamic "Laws" (i.e. "Carnot efficiency Limit") are IMO very weak (actually, utterly ridiculous)

Apart from the apparent spurious origin of the "Carnot efficiency limit equation" which could not have originated with Carnot, the equation itself contradicts Carnot in that it does not take available heat transfer surface area into consideration.

It is generally well recognized and agreed upon that an LTD type Stirling engine (that has a lot of surface area for heat transfer due to the large diameter if the heat exchange plates) that can operate on the "heat of the hand" or even lower temperature differentials, (even as little as 0.5 degrees C) is EXTREEMLY EFFICIENT able to convert an almost imperceptible amount of heat into mechanical work output.

According to the "Carnot Efficiency" formula calculations, however, BASED ONLY ON TEMPERATURE AND NEGLECTING HEAT TRANSFER AREA the "maximum possible efficiency" of such an incredibly efficient engine would be:

η = (Th - Tc)/Th x 100
η = (300.5 - 300)/300.5 x 100
η = 0.5/300.5 x 100
η = 0.00166 x 100
η = 0.166389351% efficiency

That's an impossibly low efficiency for an "extremely efficient" heat engine

Something doesn't add up.

All this (the "Carnot" efficiency limit calculations) really means is that the "caloric" (an obsolete conception from 1820) has "fallen" 0.5 degrees which is 0.166389351% of the "fall" down to absolute zero from "Th", 300.5 on the kelvin scale.

0.5 is 0.166389351% of 300.5

In other words, the more efficient a Stirling engine ACTUALLY IS in REALITY, (the smaller the temperature difference it can actually utilize), the lower will be its calculated "Carnot efficiency".

Obviously, if say 0.05 joules of heat can be transferred into the engine for every square centimeter of surface area at a given temperature, an engine with 1 sq centimeter of surface area for heat transfer is not going to transfer as much heat as an engine with 25 square centimeters of surface area.

[Tom Booth]

Posted by rgray222 (here)
Many of us share a keen interest in limitless, affordable, or free energy. Over the years, members have explored various approaches, and to my knowledge, the CIA has never shown up on their doorstep. (...) I recommend that you take a look at Wade Frasier's thread titled - WADE FRAZIER: A Healed Planet

Actually Wade is one of those who says that the CIA (among other agencies) took swift action to "shut us down" when he and Dennis Lee were making progress towards combining Lee's Heat Pump together with a Heat Engine to produce a "free energy" device that could convert atmospheric heat into useable power.

See this interview for example:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=O7g5HPnj9Pc

(around timestamp 11:00)

[Tom Booth]

While on the way to the grocery store yesterday, I stopped at a yard sale and happened upon this "Shake flashlight" being sold for $1

IT seems like a good one. An actual strong magnet and it generates power. Apparently there have been "fake" versions on the market. I did get burned once. I sent for what was advertised as a "shake flashlight" but instead received an ordinary flashlight with batteries that were leaking acid. I wrote a complaint, and I believe I received a refund, if I remember right. but it was a long time ago.

I had considered using these type flashlights for parts for a Stirling engine linear generator before, and have several different brands on the shelf in the workshop but just never got around to actually doing anything with them. Most of them do not actually come apart as easily as this one did.

Finding one of these flashlights just now, while planning this experiment seemed like serendipity so I bought it to use for this experiment.

This find also reminded me to stop at the dollar store.

The rather large liner generator from the flashlight would require a bigger engine than any of the models I currently own, so I needed something to make an engine out of. I found this "Lazy Susan" type snack tray that seemed like it would do the trick. A $3 investment.

The other stuff: sheet of acrylic "plexiglass", heat sinks, and a variety of Peltier chips I already had kicking around the shop. though the Peltier chips I have are quite small very low voltage chips, it might be fun to see what they can do while waiting for the larger Peltier device I sent for to arrive.

I think I also still have some larger Peltier devices that I got out of some old mini-refrigerators. These little solid-state refrigerators often end up in someone's junk pile, so if I see one on the curb I'll pick it up and strip it down for the parts; small fan, heat sink and Peltier chip, switch and circuit board.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=149rZDObpQ8

Using an acrylic bowl as a Stirling Engine body goes against the "Carnot theory" in that a heat engine is supposed to need to "reject" lots of heat and acrylic would tend to RETAIN heat as it is not very heat conductive, but I was inspired by this little engine, which I call "the impossible heat engine" because it seems to run quite well, regardless, in seeming violation of the Second Law"

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lx1tet8aHJU

Possibly I could also try modifying one of these little acrylic engines, If I can find a smaller cylindrical magnet to use as a piston and then just wrap a coil of magnet wire around the cylinder.

To make doubly sure that "waste heat" was not escaping from the top of the engine and a "sink" was not needed, I covered the top of the engine with a silica Aerogel blanket:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=i9nz0vt7eQA

When the engine still wouldn't "overheat" and stop running, I took additional measures to prevent possible air currents or drafts from cooling the top of the engine:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=l2XcnN6QdfA

The engine would continue running this way hour after hour after hour, when according to conventional heat engine theory it should not be able to complete a single revolution without "rejecting" 90% or so of the heat input to the so-called "cold reservoir".

At any rate, using a non-heat conductive all acrylic bowl for a Stirling engine body rather than a heat dissipating metal plate does not hinder the operation of the engine and being transparent, we can see what's going on inside which is nice.

[Tom Booth]

I visited several of the old Science and Physics forums I used to frequent years ago, but I am still banned from most, but I did find one that I could still sign into and start a thread on this topic there.

I'm not entirely sure if the Second Law / Carnot Limit is supposed to be applicable to a SOLID STATE device, like a Peltier, so I'm interested to see the response of the Scientific community there to the idea of this project.

https://www.scienceforums.com/topic/...mp-experiment/

[Tom Booth]

Well I guess it had to happen sooner or later:

https://www.scienceforums.com/topic/...Comment-465174

My thread on the science forum on this topic has been demoted and moved down into the basement or "crackpots" area in this case called: "Strange Claims Forum".

It always seems to be the forum moderator on these Science and Physics forums that turns out to be a staunch protector and defender of this "Carnot efficiency Limit Formula".

Of course, not one of my factual statements, nor the results of any of my (or others) video recorded and easily replicable experiments has been objectively considered or addressed, nor the historical facts denied or countered, such as the alleged origin of this "efficiency limit formula" from "Carnot" requiring use of the Kelvin temperature scale, which did not yet exist in Carnot's lifetime.

Also, my intention is to simply carry out an experiment, not debate theory, but this moderator presented his objections to the experiment itself, bringing up the "Carnot" so-called "efficiency limit" so-called "formula" along with The Second Law of thermodynamics.

Typically, when easily replicable empirical evidence cannot be dismissed offhand or explained away by simply referencing an apparent "violation" of the second "LAW", rational discourse is abandoned and heavy handed "moderation" resorted to.

Edit (Sept. 7)

Things are further heating up. My thread has now been demoted further to the "silly claims" section. Sorry to say, I cannot actually change the outcome of any of my experiments, just because some people don't like it or it doesn't parallel their personal expectations. They are all on video. Not all, but at least representative samples. Not to say there can't be some error, instrument failure or misinterpretation or oversight, which is why I invite and highly encourage any efforts at replication.

Strange to say, that seems to be the last thing some of these "scientists" (Carnot efficiency Limit/second law advocates in particular) are interested in.

[Tom Booth]

Ah, well.

Two weeks suspension:



In my experience, this seems to be the only "crackpot" or unorthodox, "silly" or whatever idea or theory that receives the same heavy handed treatment and censorship across all the major science and physics forums.

For a while, I thought maybe this Science forum was going to be different, but as it turns out, no. They all seem to follow the same script.

First, vague "well meaning" discouragement. "Sorry to say, your idea is quite interesting, but the mathematics (Carnot efficiency Limit formula) and the LAWS of NATURE, (Second law of thermodynamics) show that it would be a big waste of time and money." "The second law shows us that you can't win, the Carnot Limit shows you can't break even".

Several forums will issue a warning at this point and possibly lock the thread. "Discussion of 'perpetual motion' on this forum is against forum [RULES] <- link, so this topic is closed".

There is maybe a 50/50 chance the topic will be permitted to linger on for some time, giving the thread started an opportunity to "see the light".

I get the impression that often you will first be dealing with an "ordinary" moderator, but if the usual discouragement tactics do not effectively dissuade the would-be inventor or experimenter from his or her wayward path a "specialist" is brought in.

That seems to have occured in this case. At first the moderator was hesitant, apologetic, very reluctant.

Then there seemed to be a very marked change in personality followed by insults, intimidation, threats, and clear evidence of having conducted an in depth sweep of the internet for more information regarding the case. "No wonder you have been banned from all the other science forums" and additional personal details not evident in the thread.

In my case, of course, this is not hard to do, as I always post on all forums and social media using my real name.

You can question E=MC^2, certainly Tesla and other "fringe" scientists are open to unrestrained insults and ridicule, such may even be encouraged or engaged in by the moderators themselves. All other aspects of scientific questioning and debate are ignored or tolerated but don't go poking your finger at the house of cards known as the "Carnot efficiency Limit formula" or start messing around with the idea of combining a heat engine with a heat pump.

If you persist, you may soon be dealing with more than the shame and inconvenience and injustice of having your topic and your person ridiculed, insulted, doxed, censored and banned from an internet forum or social media. Put a working model on public display or actually try to market such a device and there may very likely be real world consequences.

Most known, unworkable "perpetual motion" devices are left alone. That comprises probably 99% of gravity engines, magnetic motors, "zero point" generators etc. etc. They do not work so do not pose a threat.

Thermodynamic devices utilizing atmospheric or environmental heat, however, it seems, receive close scrutiny, monitoring and what seems like sustained, organized censorship and suppression.

[Tom Booth]

Paralleling my experiences of, I'll say apparent organized suppression, this page from Wade Frazier's account makes for some interesting reading:

...marrying heat engines and heat pumps to do FE? Call me skeptical. But we never got to find out, as we were wiped out.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...anet&p=1093044

Unfortunately, these accounts only contribute another layer of indirect "suppression" by example. Of course such examples are going to dissuade and discourage others, nobody what's this kind of thing to happen to them.

"Making an example" of someone, is, of course, another very powerful means of suppression that today I think, pervades our collective unconscious. I can't count the number of times I've been told in the course of casual conversation on this subject "they will kill you".

I always laughed off or shrugged off such comments. That is not something I ever wanted to believe. Anyway, if it were to happen, the way I look at it, that would be their karma. I'm only interested in the truth, and you can see the truth unfolding on that Science forum.

I sometimes wonder, is it my fault? Maybe I bring all these bannings from all the Science and Physics forums on myself?

Well, certainly I'm not trying to avoid it by compromising or backing down. I feel it is my responsibility to relate the results of my research and experiments with honesty and integrity and with as much detail and thoroughness as possible.

Starting right from the beginning, often as soon as I have an IDEA for an experiment, which is true in this case. This solid state Peltier heat pump / heat engine combination is "just an idea". So why post it on the science forum at all?

Well, for one thing, the thread on that forum, assuming the statistics are not being manipulated, has had over 9K views already. That is not personal vanity, that is nearly ten thousand other people who now have the same IDEA, a very cheap and easy implementation of one theoretically possible means for realizing Tesla's vision of pulling "free energy" straight from the surrounding environment.

As far as I'm concerned, or the way it looks to me, I've been suspended from that science forum for "thought crime". For simply having a theory. For questioning supposedly "established science"

I mean, among other things, the reason given for the suspension includes:

If you return (..) and continue to reject the Carnot Cycle and the Second Law of Thermodynamics, you will not be welcome here.

So... That appears to be saying, if I persist in my "wrong think" I can expect to be permanently banned. It is hard to believe or for me to fully accept that such blatant, unapologetic policing of a mere thought, theory or opinion has now become the norm in science, or at least on all the major online science and physics forums.

I might however also point out that I also said on that forum: "I might also mention that this theory of coherent, resonant oscillations in connection with a gas "working fluid" appears to contradict the kinetic theory of gases that assumes gas molecules to be in constant random motion and not interacting and with no intermolecular forces of attraction or repulsion between them."

No mention is made of this. So, as said before, it is perfectly fine, apparently, to question the kinetic theory of gases and many many other accepted theories without repercussions of any kind.

This rampant, rather rabbid "thought policing" appears to be very selective, zeroing in, almost exclusively on this one rather obscure area of little interest to anyone, the "Carnot cycle".

[Tom Booth]

The so-called "Carnot cycle", if researched in some depth, did not actually originated with Carnot. It was well known, and actually only really makes sense in the context of steam engines.

What the earlier steam engineers discovered is that the steam engine could be made much more efficient if the steam input into the power cylinder were "cut off" early and the engine allowed to complete the power stroke by momentum.

In effect, this turned the heat engine into a combination heat engine and expansion REFRIGERATOR.

Using this method, the steam would cool and re-condense and the condensed water could be recirculated back into the boiler.

Carnot merely received word of such a cycle second hand giving a brief outline of it in his book, without crediting the earlier steam engineers who actually discovered it through trial and error.

Of course at the end of such a cycle in a steam engine the liquid water must be removed from the engine cylinder and fresh steam introduced. This condensed liquid may still contain considerably heat (or not, of course the coldest practical temperature the condensed water could reach would be zero Celsius). Regardless, the liquid cannot remain in the engine.

Carnot adhered to the Caloric theory that heat itself is also a kind of liquid, so in his effort to universalise his theory of heat to any and all types and kinds of heat engines, naturally he assumed that at the end of any cycle, this "liquid" heat would also require removal.

A Stirling type external combustion engine, however, is hermetically sealed, and we know now that heat is not a liquid at all but energy, that follows the law of conservation of energy.

The Stirling cycle, for any real world practical Stirling type engine is akin to the so-called "Carnot cycle" in that the heat input is "cut off" early, and the cycle allowed to complete by momentum.

The net result is that during the first part of the cycle the engine acts as a heat engine proper, but after "cut off" heat input stops and the remainder of the cycle completes the operation in the manner of an expansion REFRIGERATOR.

The difference from the steam engine is that there is no liquid or partial liquid in the form of water vapor or steam introduced into the engine and at the end of the cycle, no liquid condensate containing any remaining heat requiring removal. Also, since the working fluid is a gas, "refrigeration" is not limited to the freezing point of water. A Stirling engine, charged with the right gas such as helium, can reach cryogenic temperatures, potentially a hundred degrees or more below freezing.

The colder the temperature the engine can reach, the more heat it is able to take in and convert per cycle.

As the engine is acting as a combination heat engine and expansion refrigeration system (i.e. a HEAT PUMP) this opens up the possibility for the engine to actually utilize more heat energy than what is directly supplied. This is not a violation of conservation of energy. The engine when acting as ENGINE coverts the SUPPLIED heat into power, and when completing the cycle by momentum and acting as a HEAT PUMP it is able to gather to itself additional heat energy directly from the surrounding environment, like a heat pump, at an "efficiency" or COP that is greater than one, or so-called "over unity".

This is why one will be hard pressed to find any advanced Stirling engine on the market. Manufacture of advanced Stirling engines is being heavily restricted. Limited primarily to space applications, the military, and of course, most egregiously, to applications confined and restricted for use by the oil and gas industry.

[Tom Booth]

Some progress and explanations:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ibRckCC2D9w

The hollowed out sections in the Styrofoam are for weight reduction. (The Styrofoam will act as the "displacer" which the engine needs to be able to lift so should be as light as possible, though once lifted, most of the energy used to lift the displacer is actually returned to the engine when the displacer drops back down by gravity.)

I found a second canister that is 9 inches in diameter, fit inside the larger original 10 inch canister will leave a 1/2 inch gap between the two to incorporate a high efficiency regenerator.

I have been making regenerators based on this research paper for several years and have seen very good results:

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...al_mass_ratios

This type of sidewall regenerator is stationary so does not require lifting by the engine.

I also found another "shake flashlight" with a larger generator coil and stronger magnet that is also easy to disassemble.

[Tom Booth]

This is kind of interesting.

I've been thinking for a while that what I really need for this project is one of those very low RPM "hub motors" to use as a generator for the Stirling engine. Those hub motors are used on some electric bikes and scooters.

So this morning, my wife mentions that we are out of butter, so I take a walk up town, buy a lump of butter at the coop and start back home.

Normally I would probably just jump in the truck and go straight to the store and back, but today I decided to get some fresh air and exercise as it's a nice sunny day.

On the way back home while walking past the Laundromat I noticed one of those "Self Balancing Scooters" sticking out of one of the garbage cans.



Sure enough, two nice very low RPM hub motors.

There are dozens of YouTube videos on how to turn these things into hand cranked generators, wind generators, bike driven generators etc. Basically just spin the wheel and it's a generator, though with AC output. A rectifier can turn that into the DC needed for a Peltier.

[Tom Booth]

A lot of the videos show how to rewire the "hoverboard" generator to get higher voltage, but high voltage isn't really an advantage in this application.

What I may do though, is take out the bearings and remove, what I assume will be thick bearing grease. The bearings are meant to take the weight of a person.

Here though, there will be no weight on the bearings and the thick grease only produces unnecessary drag.

I think I will try the linear generator from the flashlight first and if that works, the bigger generator can just be used for excess power output. (Wishful thinking I suppose but who knows? Has anyone ever tried it without having their prototype seized?)

[Tom Booth]

One feature I may be incorporating into this engine would be the displacer counterbalance used by James Senft in the P-19 LTD Stirling engine.

Some online depictions of this engine are, however, inaccurate.

Here for example:

https://animatedengines.com/ltdstirling.html

The linkage in that animation, though having a superficial resemblance, is different and the counter balance is missing.

Here is a depiction of the actual P-19 with the displacer counterbalance mechanism from Senft's book: Mechanical Efficiency of Heat Engines:



The thumbscrew on the right can be adjusted so that the weight of the displacer can be perfectly counterbalanced.