Does God Judge You?

[Mike]

Many years ago I heard a man say something that made an impression on me, but while the spirit of it has stayed with me I can't recall the exact quote (or the man's name). I'm not sure if he was talking about Judaism or Christianity (or both) but for the sake of this thread we'll assume both. He said (Mike's clumsy paraphrase): At the heart of the resentment towards Christianity and Judaism is their insistence on emphasizing God's judgement.

I poo-pah'd the idea of a judgemental God for most of my adult life. I found the idea annoying and silly actually. I think most people in this community feel that way. Which kind of supports the man's theory, actually.

Speaking of annoying: I also have made the argument here that some form of religion is inevitable, and that also annoys people..particularly people who resent the idea of dogma and prefer to self-identify as spiritual as opposed to religious.

My argument, distilled down to its basic essence, is as follows: in order to live a life of maximal human flourishing, a proper orientation towards God is required - both a practical/ethical orientation and a theological/spiritual orientation...

And as that orientation gets more and more refined and structured, you wind up with something approximating religion...

And if it's not refined or structured enough you're likely not oriented properly and will suffer needlessly as a result.

In short, the claim is that an organized approach to God is not only appropriate but required and a willy-nilly approach is essentially a cop out. This annoys people too, and I get that. It would have annoyed me at one time too.

At the heart of that approach is rules and boundaries, which is just another way of saying dogma.

People tend to be allergic to dogma, but without it there's no structure, no organization, no orientation. There's...nothing.

There's a way in which things can be too dogmatic, but the trend currently is the polar opposite. What I'm saying, in a nutshell, is that I don't believe in people's motivations right away when they claim a spiritual orientation. My feeling - when I'm feeling cynical - is that they're just recasting their reluctance to adhere to a code and a disciplined way of living as something hip and free and evolved. In other words, it's not a journey towards God, it's more like a journey away from the personal responsibility and discipline required to know God.


I think the same psychology is involved when it comes to God's judgement.

To be judged by God requires something of you; it requires you to act according to specific moral principles. It requires you to behave in very specific ways if you're a Christian or a Jew.

We don't like specifics, often. If we stay murky and vague and devoid of specifics, we'll never know when we're failing and coming up short, and I think in a good many cases that's the motivation behind that approach. In my more cynical moments, I think it's laziness masquerading as some version of hip spiritual progressiveness.

To be continually reminded of your moral shortcomings is very very annoying, so to be confronted with the idea of God's judgement elicits this visceral reaction. But instead of humility, we often poo-pah the idea instead, and then recast our shortcomings as reasonable reactions to the silly rules of outdated religions and philosophies.

I dunno, it's something like that.

Go on, tell me how backwards I am!

[JackMcThorn]

Fear is the basis of control relative to such discourse such as being judged by a higher power. Centuries of fear in order to control. Especially appreciated by kings and explains their close relationship with the church. A god with a heavy hand, one who can crush you for bad behavior or extend mercy to you for good behavior.

He is as pious and thankful when a tempest is past, as devout when it is present : not clamorous to receive mercies, and tongue-tied to return thanks. From the essay of The Good Sea Captain by Thomas Fuller - this is how I approach my deities in my current 'faith' if you will - with gratefulness in good times and bad.

The primary reason to resent dogma is to resent fear. To me this is sound [modern] thinking and not necessarily 'hip'. To reject religion in favor of an ideal belief in God with no structure is indeed nothing as well [Deist]. But religion provides metrics, spirituality not necessarily so. Can you have a belief system that does not measure per se by some ancient standards? I think so. And its not a cop-out. Plus spirituality has symbolism and meaning at the very least to a single person whereas religion is designed for the masses.

My primary deity I perceive as a guide sort of like a guardian angel. When I left organized religion and left behind dogma I did not fear this entity nor did it occur to me to be judged by her. I feel like the bonds of religion were broken when I learned to perform my faith in a much different and personal way. A way without stricture or hard and fast rules or some sort of overseer by way of leadership contingent.

You are not backwards in your thinking but I think fear is the primary driver unmentioned in your missive.

[thepainterdoug]

do parents judge their 5 year olds in the playpen? no ,regardless of their actions, they love them equally.

[Bluegreen]

I am convinced there is an afterlife, and I think we all judge ourselves. Then God steps in.

[Mike]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
do parents judge their 5 year olds in the playpen? no ,regardless of their actions, they love them equally.

I think they do judge them, Doug. And it's not obvious to me that parents love their kids equally.

My mom told me she loved me the most one day. She really did. I was 7 or 8 yrs old. I have 3 siblings and she may have said the same to them but I don't think so.

[Mike]

Posted by Bluegreen (here)
I am convinced there is an afterlife, and I think we all judge ourselves. Then God steps in.

I think there's an afterlife too.

But I think when a soul is offered the privilege of incarnating on the earth, that comes with a certain expectation. There are things you are meant to do here, or at least try to do here, and if you don't do them your conscience will not leave you alone.

I don't think there's really any difference between your conscience judging you and God judging you.

[Raskolnikov]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
do parents judge their 5 year olds in the playpen? no ,regardless of their actions, they love them equally.

I think they do judge them, Doug. And it's not obvious to me that parents love their kids equally.

Unconditional love is a fallacy. Love always comes with conditions; not judgements, but boundaries. If your child bites another child in the playpen you're going to have enforce boundaries so it doesn't happen again. Give them guidance and conditions on what's proper behavior in the normal day to day. A big part of the problem today is children growing up without parents instilling proper conditions, proper boundaries and behavior, a true sense of understanding of right and wrong. You still love them, of course, but you must guide them and set up proper boundaries to instill a balanced moral compass which is so needed in today's world.

Wtf, is it really 9/11?

[Mike]

Posted by Raskolnikov (here)

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
do parents judge their 5 year olds in the playpen? no ,regardless of their actions, they love them equally.

I think they do judge them, Doug. And it's not obvious to me that parents love their kids equally.

Unconditional love is a fallacy. Love always comes with conditions; not judgements, but boundaries. If your child bites another child in the playpen you're going to have enforce boundaries so it doesn't happen again. Give them guidance and conditions on what's proper behavior in the normal day to day. A big part of the problem today is children growing up without parents instilling proper conditions, proper boundaries and behavior, a true sense of understanding of right and wrong. You still love them, of course, but you must guide them and set up proper boundaries to instill a balanced moral compass which is so needed in today's world.

Wtf, is it really 9/11?

Just saw this YouTube short. It's Dennis Prager and Jordan Peterson. Very interesting. Just one minute long.

Peterson uses the words "conditional" and "judgement". That's in alignment with my thinking too.

We're so close here. I'd just be forced to quibble with you over the word "judgement". I'd have written your one sentence a little differently as a result: "A big part of the problem today is children growing up without parents judging them."

Children are in no position to judge themselves, so they require parents to do it for them; I think you can file "instilling proper conditions, proper boundaries and behavior, a true sense of understanding right and wrong" all under the rubric of judging. And I would say that teenagers and young adults in general are so mental because they haven't been judged harshly enough or even at all. Their orientation is inward instead of upward, which is why they're so bloody narcissistic.

A proper and healthy orientation should always be upwards imho; the child is oriented towards the parent and the parent is oriented towards God. Either way, someone or something wiser than us is doing the judging.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-m8OSvDWJSI

[Johnnycomelately]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by Raskolnikov (here)

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
do parents judge their 5 year olds in the playpen? no ,regardless of their actions, they love them equally.

I think they do judge them, Doug. And it's not obvious to me that parents love their kids equally.

Unconditional love is a fallacy. Love always comes with conditions; not judgements, but boundaries. If your child bites another child in the playpen you're going to have enforce boundaries so it doesn't happen again. Give them guidance and conditions on what's proper behavior in the normal day to day. A big part of the problem today is children growing up without parents instilling proper conditions, proper boundaries and behavior, a true sense of understanding of right and wrong. You still love them, of course, but you must guide them and set up proper boundaries to instill a balanced moral compass which is so needed in today's world.

Wtf, is it really 9/11?

Just saw this YouTube short. It's Dennis Prager and Jordan Peterson. Very interesting. Just one minute long.

Peterson uses the words "conditional" and "judgement". That's in alignment with my thinking too.

We're so close here. I'd just be forced to quibble with you over the word "judgement". I'd have written your one sentence a little differently as a result: "A big part of the problem today is children growing up without parents judging them."

Children are in no position to judge themselves, so they require parents to do it for them; I think you can file "instilling proper conditions, proper boundaries and behavior, a true sense of understanding right and wrong" all under the rubric of judging. And I would say that teenagers and young adults in general are so mental because they haven't been judged harshly enough or even at all. Their orientation is inward instead of upward, which is why they're so bloody narcissistic.

A proper and healthy orientation should always be upwards imho; the child is oriented towards the parent and the parent is oriented towards God. Either way, someone or something wiser than us is doing the judging.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-m8OSvDWJSI

Vid fails as evidence for your theory, Mike. “Bible says …”. Logical fallacy of Appeal To Authority.

My life, thus far, has proven to me that selfless love is a thing. “Unconditional” is a big difficulty, as my ego will try to stoke itself at every opportunity, but it can be done. Needs eternal vigilance, or at least a big bank of goodwill.

[Open Minded Dude]

(That which is) God is part of all of us. All of us are part of that which is God.

So for me the answer would be a ... kind of ... because We judge ourselves on every life (ended) in our life reviews and then carry on with a next life to work stuff out (or whatever).

[Ernie Nemeth]

What is there to judge?

Judgment implies punishment.

But we don't know what we are so we cannot be held liable.


Each of us are here because we must be. We are all part of God's plan, God's will. Not one of us is dispensable. Without each of us reality could never have been.
Think of how important we must be. Think of the impossibility of you being here, the odds against it. And yet we are each here doing our part to manifest God's plan.

Judging will come, but it will be a celebration, not a court of law.

We cannot fail our part in reality because reality needs each of us to show up exactly as we do.
Death is our completion. The last fragments of the false identity fall away and we finally become cognizant of our true magnificence.
We are all agents of god.
We are all heroes.

Great job, one and all!

[AutumnW]

Hi Mike!

We are our own judges right here, right now, imo. And we are brutal about it, even if the judging and condemnation rattles around the periphery of our conscious minds.

After we die, we have a life review, where we are encouraged to understand ourselves, our motivations, and the impact we have had on others, both positive and negative--the why, when and how we went off the rails.

If we accept the analysis of our lives and the emotions , we move on to the next life, a little less encumbered. The next life will further refine us.

If we don't accept the lessons of the life review analysis, we experience the same type of life we've had here over again until we get it 'right' This thought alone, has me trying harder to understand myself as objectively as I can, as well as those around me.

[Mike]

Posted by Johnnycomelately (here)

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by Raskolnikov (here)

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
do parents judge their 5 year olds in the playpen? no ,regardless of their actions, they love them equally.

I think they do judge them, Doug. And it's not obvious to me that parents love their kids equally.

Unconditional love is a fallacy. Love always comes with conditions; not judgements, but boundaries. If your child bites another child in the playpen you're going to have enforce boundaries so it doesn't happen again. Give them guidance and conditions on what's proper behavior in the normal day to day. A big part of the problem today is children growing up without parents instilling proper conditions, proper boundaries and behavior, a true sense of understanding of right and wrong. You still love them, of course, but you must guide them and set up proper boundaries to instill a balanced moral compass which is so needed in today's world.

Wtf, is it really 9/11?

Just saw this YouTube short. It's Dennis Prager and Jordan Peterson. Very interesting. Just one minute long.

Peterson uses the words "conditional" and "judgement". That's in alignment with my thinking too.

We're so close here. I'd just be forced to quibble with you over the word "judgement". I'd have written your one sentence a little differently as a result: "A big part of the problem today is children growing up without parents judging them."

Children are in no position to judge themselves, so they require parents to do it for them; I think you can file "instilling proper conditions, proper boundaries and behavior, a true sense of understanding right and wrong" all under the rubric of judging. And I would say that teenagers and young adults in general are so mental because they haven't been judged harshly enough or even at all. Their orientation is inward instead of upward, which is why they're so bloody narcissistic.

A proper and healthy orientation should always be upwards imho; the child is oriented towards the parent and the parent is oriented towards God. Either way, someone or something wiser than us is doing the judging.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-m8OSvDWJSI

Vid fails as evidence for your theory, Mike. “Bible says …”. Logical fallacy of Appeal To Authority.

My life, thus far, has proven to me that selfless love is a thing. “Unconditional” is a big difficulty, as my ego will try to stoke itself at every opportunity, but it can be done. Needs eternal vigilance, or at least a big bank of goodwill.

If God isn't a qualified authority, who or what is??

The conditions placed on love should be reasonable ones, not superficial ones. When people hear the word "judgement" they often associate it with pettiness I think.

Are you going to love someone less if they bleach your shirt? Hopefully not. But if they intentionally, say, chop off your hand? You will love them less

That's an extreme example, but you kinda have to start there to begin making the point.

[Mike]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Hi Mike!

We are our own judges right here, right now, imo. And we are brutal about it, even if the judging and condemnation rattles around the periphery of our conscious minds.

After we die, we have a life review, where we are encouraged to understand ourselves, our motivations, and the impact we have had on others, both positive and negative--the why, when and how we went off the rails.

If we accept the analysis of our lives and the emotions , we move on to the next life, a little less encumbered. The next life will further refine us.

If we don't accept the lessons of the life review analysis, we experience the same type of life we've had here over again until we get it 'right' This thought alone, has me trying harder to understand myself as objectively as I can, as well as those around me.

Yo Jess! I've loved watching those NDE videos over the years. I've gotten lots of comfort from them. A large part of me hopes that's exactly how it goes when we die.

I'll admit to having a hard time reconciling that with this kind of more religious orientation I've developed over the years. But what I said earlier in the thread may sort of begin bridging that gap - I think God's judgement and your conscience are essentially the same thing. (I should have said this in the OP)

Your conscience is your direct line to God imo. And a conscience is usually reminding you of when you're failing and coming up short. It's judging you, constantly. I'm trying to say something just a little more sophisticated (and maybe failing at it) than the usual old man in the sky wagging a finger when you die sort of thing.

There's a way in which this can become unproductive and harmful, but it would be far more harmful to do away with it altogether.

[AutumnW]

Good thoughts there, Mike. It's really hard to disentangle what thoughts and beliefs are original to ourselves, which ones are intermingled with a supernatural deity. So glad you like the videos!

[Matthew]

Yes God judges you. God judges and He is the perfect judge. Vengeance is His and His alone. We are accountable to God for every work we do and word we say. But you're not saved by your works, you're saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. This is the crazy gift of salvation. God loved us first, and there is no fear in love yet God will chastise those He loves. Ten million times better than man's crude judgement and chastisement. Man can shove his judgement where the sun don't shine, I trust my fellow man as far as I can throw them. God is the perfect Father and Jesus Christ, Lamb of God, is the only one worthy to break the seal and open the scroll.

1 John 4
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us.

[Bluegreen]

Posted by Mike (here)
But what I said earlier in the thread may sort of begin bridging that gap - I think God's judgement and your conscience are essentially the same thing.

This makes sense to me, and is just as possible as more than one scenario. Who knows. We might be very surprised. We could find ourselves floating on clouds playing the harp or burning in eternity.

[thepainterdoug]

to clarify, yes parents judge and favor certain children, and behavior has to be monitored and trained, but if that child was to be hurt or in peril, the parents would be right at his side because the children are part of the parents
we are allowed to play out our parts and by free will we will be judged on this stage, the 3 d stage.
But in the end ,home in the etheric, we are all loved. just my thoughts on it.

[Johnnycomelately]

Good post Autumn, and good post Mike.

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Hi Mike!

We are our own judges right here, right now, imo. And we are brutal about it, even if the judging and condemnation rattles around the periphery of our conscious minds.

After we die, we have a life review, where we are encouraged to understand ourselves, our motivations, and the impact we have had on others, both positive and negative--the why, when and how we went off the rails.

If we accept the analysis of our lives and the emotions , we move on to the next life, a little less encumbered. The next life will further refine us.

If we don't accept the lessons of the life review analysis, we experience the same type of life we've had here over again until we get it 'right' This thought alone, has me trying harder to understand myself as objectively as I can, as well as those around me.

Yo Jess! I've loved watching those NDE videos over the years. I've gotten lots of comfort from them. A large part of me hopes that's exactly how it goes when we die.

I'll admit to having a hard time reconciling that with this kind of more religious orientation I've developed over the years. But what I said earlier in the thread may sort of begin bridging that gap - I think God's judgement and your conscience are essentially the same thing. (I should have said this in the OP)

Your conscience is your direct line to God imo. And a conscience is usually reminding you of when you're failing and coming up short. It's judging you, constantly. I'm trying to say something just a little more sophisticated (and maybe failing at it) than the usual old man in the sky wagging a finger when you die sort of thing.

There's a way in which this can become unproductive and harmful, but it would be far more harmful to do away with it altogether.

Autumn, I agree with your take, tho variables like being mentored, and the time and quality of the between-lives, I keep it as a framework.

Mike, I like your take on conscience, that it may be the image in us of our God’s judgement. Talking our individual selected and fav Gods here, as no one would agree that some other random person’s fav God could judge and punish you. Think of all the Gods! And they’re all immortal!

Gosh, have I unconvinced myself? I forget who Loki is (IS, haha!), but I know Zeus throws lightning bolts. Could He be behind all the recent wildfires ascribed to lightning?

I guess the Voo-doo God is exempt, whichever scenario one might choose.

[Raskolnikov]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Hi Mike!

We are our own judges right here, right now, imo. And we are brutal about it, even if the judging and condemnation rattles around the periphery of our conscious minds.

After we die, we have a life review, where we are encouraged to understand ourselves, our motivations, and the impact we have had on others, both positive and negative--the why, when and how we went off the rails.

If we accept the analysis of our lives and the emotions , we move on to the next life, a little less encumbered. The next life will further refine us.

If we don't accept the lessons of the life review analysis, we experience the same type of life we've had here over again until we get it 'right' This thought alone, has me trying harder to understand myself as objectively as I can, as well as those around me.

Yo Jess! I've loved watching those NDE videos over the years. I've gotten lots of comfort from them. A large part of me hopes that's exactly how it goes when we die.

I'll admit to having a hard time reconciling that with this kind of more religious orientation I've developed over the years. But what I said earlier in the thread may sort of begin bridging that gap - I think God's judgement and your conscience are essentially the same thing. (I should have said this in the OP)

Your conscience is your direct line to God imo. And a conscience is usually reminding you of when you're failing and coming up short. It's judging you, constantly. I'm trying to say something just a little more sophisticated (and maybe failing at it) than the usual old man in the sky wagging a finger when you die sort of thing.

There's a way in which this can become unproductive and harmful, but it would be far more harmful to do away with it altogether.

Love the God's judgment/conscience connection. I've often felt the same. But is it really judgment or more in the line of discernment, God, or guardian angels, or aliens, or..., forewarning you of a situation or decision which you should really reconsider. Like that time as a child when you wanted to steal a candy bar and were hit with that terrible anxiety and feeling of guilt. Which decision did you make? God's little hints, and yet some of us learn the hard way, make the selfish choice and then proceed to get a full diploma in the school of hard knocks, received my PhD some years ago and now I can't find work.

But this sentence piqued my interest, "I'll admit to having a hard time reconciling that with this kind of more religious orientation I've developed over the years." If you don't mind my asking, Mike, could you expand on that a little bit? I'm curious what that religious orientation looks like.