How ET societies have thrived

[Michi]

Posted by Heart to heart (here)
Some years ago, when I joined this forum, there was a young man who offered to film my experiences with Margo Williams, psychic extraordinaire, with whom many ‘ETs’ communicated. They spoke of things pertaining to their way of life, their concern about what was/is happening on Earth and for our future. That video is available on Avalon.

Referring to records made during those years ……

1.

TU an ET from planet VA in another galaxy as yet undiscovered
All colours are soft and muted, nothing dark
Soil, sandy pink
Diet of plants and fruit
Anger and wars unheard of
Technology far in advance of humanity
Spacecraft visiting their own galaxy and others, including Earth, for observation purposes
No disease, therefore no doctors or healers.
Lifespan 130 years
Ability to communicate with souls after ‘death’
Apported something similar to a ballerina’s TU-TU for proof! (Great synchronicity!)
Weather control at the push of a button
Megalith builders far more advanced than our present civilisation. Original purpose was as landing markers for men from another planet who had pale green skin and golden eyes. They were friendly towards Earth and came to teach mankind.
Apported a small green button with a gold centre to illustrate the colours he meant.

(I tried to copy and paste a photo of this but failed! I believe it is shown on my video on ETs)

2.
1987
“Contact, contact, contact!”
His name sounded like out humming sound. So we called him HUMM.
Referred to us as Earthlings
Would like to make contact with those in positions of power but would be destroyed like an animal
Used telepathy
Can communicate with their dead
Four kinds of food
No gossip as thoughts visible to all
No need for music or entertainment as their power of visualisation brings requirements into manifestation
All material things have to be earned
One child only
120 year lifespan
Noise causes damage to human health, as do long speeches!
The simpler ones life becomes the more intelligent one becomes
Similar to us in appearance, but larger head
All have same hair colour
Colourful houses with sloping walls, which they lean upright against for about 15 minutes when needing what we know as sleep to receive visions of the next 24 hours or so.
Speaks through a BEAM
Does not know or understand emotions of fear, happiness, sadness, love, nor hate
Obey without question
Far superior intellect
Concern about what would happen to Earth if a big war breaks out
They have already lost the life force on 2 planets in their galaxy
Wish for PEACE between all nations and planets.

Just 2 of the men from the stars who chose to communicate a little of their way of life to us. We were always given proof of some kind with every communication. There were many more and they broadened my perspective on life in the universe and I grew in wisdom as a result of their teaching.
There is only one way and it is the way of acceptance and love

REMEMBER WE ARE UNIVERSAL BEINGS, BROTHERS AND SISTERS TO ALL CREATION, SO STAND STRONG IN YOUR KNOWLEDGE, KNOWING YOURSELF TO BE SOVEREIGN ETERNAL BEINGS REFLECTING THE LIGHT OF SOURCE WHEREVER YOU MANIFEST YOUR SOUL IN WHATEVER FORM EXPRESSING THE ONE CONSCIOUSNESS🌟🌟🌟

That reminds me of very intriguing stories about distant civilizations as portrayed and described in:

https://www.galactic-server.net/linkmap.html

[Craig]

I am currently exploring 2 thoughts related to this, 1, the James Webb telescope, has expanded what our view of space possibly is, trillions of galaxies\universes supporting the possibility of trillions of life bearing planets??

and 2, and this I am having difficulties in expressing in a coherent form, the gestation of life on a planet, where there is 1 advanced life form that is left to flourish without the stigma of race and religion, is there a planet out there lets say inhabited by greys where half the planet is a shade of grey different to the other half and hence thousands of years of wars fought over the colour of their grey skin? we are as a species like to see perceive what is different and use that as a point of attack, my dad used to say 2 things to me repeatedly, if you make something idiot proof, god will make a bigger idiot, and if you put 3 people in a room 2 will inevitably pick on the third, no matter what differences there may or may not be.

I think this is all a simulation or sorts just cause of all the eventualities present to us, at the end of this life we wake up and either go again, or ask for our credits back...

[rgray222]

In 2014, I wrote an article for my website, educatinghumanity.com. The article gained over a million views. Years later, Google approached me with an offer to purchase the site, but I declined. I never advertised on it or made any effort to monetize the site. I also turned down several other offers to buy it. In their infinite wisdom, Google sold the site to an educational company without my knowledge or consent. They told me I had broken their community guidelines. The site started out as a blog, and eventually, I purchased the .com address for it. They sent me this notification.

In regards to the article below, this is what Google said about it.

This post was put behind a warning for readers because it contains sensitive content as outlined in Blogger’s Community Guidelines.

I let the site go without a fight because I have no will or desire to fight with Google.

I think this particular post hit a nerve, and I also believe it is somewhat applicable to this discussion.

Why Are Aliens Visiting Earth? The Answer May Surprise You

While many acknowledge the presence of extraterrestrials in our world, they are at a complete loss to explain why they are here. As with most things in life, the explanation is fairly straightforward and not that difficult to comprehend. Understanding the primary motive for extraterrestrial visits will help explain the UFO phenomenon.

Most people believe that extraterrestrials are visiting Earth to monitor the progress and behavior of humanity. To a certain extent, that might be true, but it is much more likely that they are periodically coming here to examine the health of Planet Earth. After all, even our scientists are beginning to come around to the idea that Planet Earth is a living sentient being. In the greater cosmos, human and extraterrestrial life may be fairly common. On the other hand, what little we know about other planets and the universe at large indicates that our home planet is an extremely desirable and rare occurrence within the cosmos.

People have wondered for a long time why ET has not made its presence known. If we are not the primary reason why they are here, why would they disclose their existence? The survival of mankind is probably very far down their list of priorities. For that matter, the survival of humanity may not even be on their list of priorities. Have you ever stopped to consider that Planet Earth has more value to an alien race if there were no humans inhabiting the planet?

Everything we need to sustain life has been provided for us on Planet Earth. We are blessed with an abundance of water, sunshine, breathable air, enough land and food to house and feed 7 billion people. We share Earth with millions of species of plant, animal and insect life, each playing an important role in the ecosystem, which in itself is remarkable. It makes our planet an astonishing place, a very rare and unusual gem among the stars.

Those who follow UFOs closely know the largest wave of UFO sightings in modern times coincided with the discovery of splitting the atom and the use of Atomic Energy during WWII. In other words, when we discovered how to manipulate nuclear energy, we triggered an unprecedented wave of UFO sightings.

There are well-documented cases of UFOs hovering over nuclear military facilities in both the United States and Russia. Reliable witnesses state that the craft was tampering with the nuclear armament control systems. This behavior by UFOs and their occupants was not an accident, and it was clearly a message to humanity.

Many people want to believe that if things get out of control and WWIII gets under way our extraterrestrial brethren will step in and save humanity; nothing could be further from the truth. ET may step in and save Planet Earth, but they will have little time and no admiration for a species that never understood how good they had it in the first place.

There is little doubt that Earth's oceans, forests and species of plants and animals are worth saving. The living, breathing, self-regulating sentient being that we are living on is at the core of their mission.

UFOs have a long and documented history of appearing just after natural or man-made catastrophic events. There is not much question that they are keeping their eye on the prize we call Earth.

[Craig]

yes, firstly, remember Google's adage - Do Evil, no point battling with them, well not in this lifetime!

secondly, loved your article, I likened it to a vet that is looking after a mistreated dog and ensuring that it is free from illness and fleas,

guess what i liken the fleas to....

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by rgray222 (here)
Many people want to believe that if things get out of control and WWIII gets under way our extraterrestrial brethren will step in and save humanity; nothing could be further from the truth.

I see it differently.

We were seeded on the Earth; human beings are an experiment. We are a genetic amalgam of probably several ET races. Originally conceived (designed, built and coded) by highly evolved, virtually angelic, creator beings. At the behest of these 'progenitors', physical ETs did the field work. They set up the experiment on a virgin primordial earth (maybe genetic memory of these ancient times gave rise to the myth of Eden). I deduce that multiple humanoid experiments were introduced, and multiple prototypes developed. We know the genetic family of Homo Sapiens is quite extensive. Long story short: the other hominids died out; we flourished. The survival of the fittest in action.

Earth is indeed a vast, intricate, majestic, sentient being. And it's evolving, just like we're evolving. In fact, our relationship is symbiotic. We are evolving the earth; at the same time, the earth is evolving us. Earth is encoded into our DNA. Likewise, we are encoded in the Earth's DNA. A planet-wide network of energy, a crystalline energy-grid that is like the Earth's circulatory system. If we were to leave the Earth and go out into space long-term, we would lose that sacred connection. Our DNA would literally rewrite itself. We are not more, or less, important than the Earth. Both are unique, both are elevated as divine, cosmic creations, and both are equally protected from total destruction. That's the most important thing to understand. Earth cannot be destroyed, and humans cannot die out completely. Either event would ruin the experiment, which has been running non-stop for eons. As a school for expanding consciousness for young, developing souls, humanity and earth are extraordinarily valuable and important. Souls from all over come here. If we were ever in mortal jeopardy as a species, they - the ETs - would absolutely intervene. There is no doubt of that in my mind.

You may wonder why I sound so confident. One side of it is decades of reading and studying esoteric spiritual matters and putting the pieces together. But also: I know it on a cellular, perhaps, soulular, level. I am not a channeller, or a physic. I'm not a contactee. But I am an experiencer, having had all four kinds of close encounter. I'm an intuitive, a sensitive one, and I receive 'downloads', I suppose you could call them, on a regular basis, pretty much whenever I ask an 'existential' question. Whether these come from the higher self or somewhere else..who knows. It just is. I don't discuss it much. It defies explanation. It defies rational sense. It is what it is. I pluck strands of absolute knowledge from somewhere deep within, or may far without, packets of information that have composition, volume, substance and meaning, fully complete from start to finish; they flash my consciousness in a billionth of a second -- and I just know. This applies to the first two paragraphs of this post. Some of this I didn't know before I started writing, like the Earth-DNA/energy grid thing. But that was part of the 'flash'. Maybe it's coming from my spirit guides, or the Akashic records, the ETs themselves, or maybe it's from my subconscious and I'm simply deluding myself! I don't know. I'm just reporting what I downloaded/perceived, rightly or wrongly.

[Arcturian108]

Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)

Posted by rgray222 (here)
Many people want to believe that if things get out of control and WWIII gets under way our extraterrestrial brethren will step in and save humanity; nothing could be further from the truth.

I see it differently.

We were seeded on the Earth; human beings are an experiment. We are a genetic amalgam of probably several ET races. Originally conceived (designed, built and coded) by highly evolved, virtually angelic, creator beings. At the behest of these 'progenitors', physical ETs did the field work. They set up the experiment on a virgin primordial earth (maybe genetic memory of these ancient times gave rise to the myth of Eden). I deduce that multiple humanoid experiments were introduced, and multiple prototypes developed. We know the genetic family of Homo Sapiens is quite extensive. Long story short: the other hominids died out; we flourished. The survival of the fittest in action.

Earth is indeed a vast, intricate, majestic, sentient being. And it's evolving, just like we're evolving. In fact, our relationship is symbiotic. We are evolving the earth; at the same time, the earth is evolving us. Earth is encoded into our DNA. Likewise, we are encoded in the Earth's DNA. A planet-wide network of energy, a crystalline energy-grid that is like the Earth's circulatory system. If we were to leave the Earth and go out into space long-term, we would lose that sacred connection. Our DNA would literally rewrite itself. We are not more, or less, important than the Earth. Both are unique, both are elevated as divine, cosmic creations, and both are equally protected from total destruction. That's the most important thing to understand. Earth cannot be destroyed, and humans cannot die out completely. Either event would ruin the experiment, which has been running non-stop for eons. As a school for expanding consciousness for young, developing souls, humanity and earth are extraordinarily valuable and important. Souls from all over come here. If we were ever in mortal jeopardy as a species, they - the ETs - would absolutely intervene. There is no doubt of that in my mind.

You may wonder why I sound so confident. One side of it is decades of reading and studying esoteric spiritual matters and putting the pieces together. But also: I know it on a cellular, perhaps, soulular, level. I am not a channeller, or a physic. I'm not a contactee. But I am an experiencer, having had all four kinds of close encounter. I'm an intuitive, a sensitive one, and I receive 'downloads', I suppose you could call them, on a regular basis, pretty much whenever I ask an 'existential' question. Whether these come from the higher self or somewhere else..who knows. It just is. I don't discuss it much. It defies explanation. It defies rational sense. It is what it is. I pluck strands of absolute knowledge from somewhere deep within, or may far without, packets of information that have composition, volume, substance and meaning, fully complete from start to finish; they flash my consciousness in a billionth of a second -- and I just know. This applies to the first two paragraphs of this post. Some of this I didn't know before I started writing, like the Earth-DNA/energy grid thing. But that was part of the 'flash'. Maybe it's coming from my spirit guides, or the Akashic records, the ETs themselves, or maybe it's from my subconscious and I'm simply deluding myself! I don't know. I'm just reporting what I downloaded/perceived, rightly or wrongly.

Just WOW! Mark: You hit the nail on the head. I feel the absolute truth of those first two paragraphs.

[Faylin]

When I think of alien life, I think of psychic beings who probably advance as time and others advance, while making original advancements on their own, or perhaps more advanced than that. Or an all-knowing being, which is an interesting concept, especially if it's Santa Claus.

I highly doubt any being like that would compete or war against anyone who wasn't worth the decision. I think all those negatives about our society become aspects of their enemies, focused on each other. I don't think they tolerate some of the b.s .We have in existence sometimes. I think the ones that do tolerate the nonsense work in a way that is so foreign to me that I can't explain it because I don't have the pieces to put the statistical puzzle together. I have, however, considered the concept of sky daddy because I was raised Baptist; therefore, I have an understanding of this concept and have a lot of thoughts on the subject of that spectrum of the god molecule, ya know? Like, obviously all-knowing god is going to create evil to tempt men because anyone who'd lose to temptation would have eventually tempted themselves too.

Anyway, you bring up a lot of good points. I'm afraid some of us are already under attack by them, while others are aided. some E.T.s are interventionalist or watcher archetypes.

[rgray222]

Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)

Posted by rgray222 (here)
Many people want to believe that if things get out of control and WWIII gets under way our extraterrestrial brethren will step in and save humanity; nothing could be further from the truth.

I see it differently.

We were seeded on the Earth; human beings are an experiment. We are a genetic amalgam of probably several ET races. Originally conceived (designed, built and coded) by highly evolved, virtually angelic, creator beings. At the behest of these 'progenitors', physical ETs did the field work. They set up the experiment on a virgin primordial earth (maybe genetic memory of these ancient times gave rise to the myth of Eden). I deduce that multiple humanoid experiments were introduced, and multiple prototypes developed. We know the genetic family of Homo Sapiens is quite extensive. Long story short: the other hominids died out; we flourished. The survival of the fittest in action.

Earth is indeed a vast, intricate, majestic, sentient being. And it's evolving, just like we're evolving. In fact, our relationship is symbiotic. We are evolving the earth; at the same time, the earth is evolving us. Earth is encoded into our DNA. Likewise, we are encoded in the Earth's DNA. A planet-wide network of energy, a crystalline energy-grid that is like the Earth's circulatory system. If we were to leave the Earth and go out into space long-term, we would lose that sacred connection. Our DNA would literally rewrite itself. We are not more, or less, important than the Earth. Both are unique, both are elevated as divine, cosmic creations, and both are equally protected from total destruction. That's the most important thing to understand. Earth cannot be destroyed, and humans cannot die out completely. Either event would ruin the experiment, which has been running non-stop for eons. As a school for expanding consciousness for young, developing souls, humanity and earth are extraordinarily valuable and important. Souls from all over come here. If we were ever in mortal jeopardy as a species, they - the ETs - would absolutely intervene. There is no doubt of that in my mind.

You may wonder why I sound so confident. One side of it is decades of reading and studying esoteric spiritual matters and putting the pieces together. But also: I know it on a cellular, perhaps, soulular, level. I am not a channeller or a physic. I'm not a contactee. But I am an experiencer, having had all four kinds of close encounter. I'm an intuitive, a sensitive one, and I receive 'downloads', I suppose you could call them, on a regular basis, pretty much whenever I ask an 'existential' question. Whether these come from the higher self or somewhere else..who knows. It just is. I don't discuss it much. It defies explanation. It defies rational sense. It is what it is. I pluck strands of absolute knowledge from somewhere deep within, or may far without, packets of information that have composition, volume, substance and meaning, fully complete from start to finish; they flash my consciousness in a billionth of a second -- and I just know. This applies to the first two paragraphs of this post. Some of this I didn't know before I started writing, like the Earth-DNA/energy grid thing. But that was part of the 'flash'. Maybe it's coming from my spirit guides, or the Akashic records, the ETs themselves, or maybe it's from my subconscious and I'm simply deluding myself! I don't know. I'm just reporting what I downloaded/perceived, rightly or wrongly.

Mark, what a fascinating post. I feel "almost" the same way. I’ve also had a very close and personal UFO encounter that profoundly changed my life. In fact, that experience is what motivated me to seek out Avalon. Like you, I also experience what you call downloads. I’ve had them since childhood, which I’ve always referred to as “moments of absolute clarity.” These are usually brief, fleeting flashes when I suddenly grasp the vastness and interconnectedness of the universe. It is as if I am provided with thoughts and immediately given the answers, which are crystal clear, extremely obvious, and it seems so natural and simple.

As I’ve gone through life, these moments of clarity have become less frequent, but when they do occur, they tend to last much longer, once for a period of three days. That experience was quite astonishing, and I’ve never written or spoken about it publicly because I don’t think many would believe it.

When I wrote the post above #23, it was one of those moments. I sat at the computer with no intention of writing a post, and it seemed to compose itself out of thin air; everything simply flowed onto the screen. What that actually means, however, remains anyone’s guess.

There’s no doubt in my mind that humans and Earth were created from the same essence. No matter how you choose to view Earth, whether through science, philosophy, spirituality, or even just common sense, you can’t deny that our planet is a self-regulating, living, sentient being capable of supporting life on many different levels. Earth has been a sentient being since its creation, but with the arrival of humanity, it was given greater meaning and purpose.

There are nine million different living organisms on Earth, along with humanity, and we have all (including Earth) blended into a single, interconnected organism. To truly understand that Earth is alive, it’s essential to grasp its self-regulating ability. In simple terms, when you cut yourself, a scab forms to heal the wound. When a forest is in distress, the earth will share minerals and moisture to the roots most in need. Earth possesses a natural ability to heal itself over vast periods of time. We may think of volcanoes, wildfires, hurricanes, and earthquakes as catastrophic events, but the truth is the earth is self-regulating, putting itself back into balance and at times it is even growing.

Oddly, most environmentalists are actually Earth’s worst enemies. They fail to see that humanity and Earth are becoming one being. They believe that removing humans from Earth would lead to a healthier planet, but what they don’t realize is that humans and Earth are interconnected; one cannot survive without the other, it is truly a symbiotic relationship. Think of it like a car that’s never driven; it will eventually fall apart and become useless. Or like a house that remains vacant for too long, it will deteriorate and lose its value. The health of Earth and humanity is deeply intertwined, and understanding this connection is crucial.

The goal of all of this is to join the greater universe or die trying. It is not for the faint of heart, and it certainly is not a foregone conclusion that humanity will be successful. If we actually achieve membership, it will then be the start of our journey that will reveal our true purpose.

By the way, the only difference I see between our thinking on this subject is that I believe the creator, God, sits on top of all beings, living things and sentient planets.

[Maknocktomb]

We can only approach Bill's post from our own experiences and our recent human history in the last several thousands years. It's hard for us to understand societies that operate with no money and have benevolent resource sharing. I beleive the key is what Bill hinted on which is the lack of our current civilizations spiritual development along with the technological advancement. That can be dangerous and ultimately suicidal.

The other point is just because a ET civilization has more advance technology doesn't necessarily mean they are more spiritually advanced than you or I. They can be in service for themselves or service to others, each with their own perils. My hope is that more people will have a true spiritual awaking and we will make it this time around. Or we will be another legend then myth, and eventually forgotten like the many advanced human civilizations that have come before us on this planet. I believe there are many factors that are pushing us along this current path, both on and off planet. Time will tell, but we will not know that in our current avatar we inhabit.

[Violet3]

I have rarely found that the people sitting in front of me are "Earthlings". Almost everyone I counsel is from some distant planet, or star.

Without saying too much about Bill, he is definitely not an Earthling.

Enjoying this very interesting discussion. For myself, I have always felt stranded here on planet earth, a bit alien or something. As a child I would long for a space ship to pick me up, though to be sure maybe it was just my dysfunctional family that prompted this.
We are all currently earthlings, but I am sure we are also inter-planetary travellers, sometimes when we dream and naturally when we die.
i am not sure but tend to think other ET civilizations have their own challenges and karmic destinies- many have lots to teach us but may not yet be perfect, while others may be as warlike and socially primitive as our own (with more advanced tech perhaps).
And what is perfect? Or advanced? Without getting too complicated, I think societies based on the old principles of Truth, Goodness and Beauty (perhaps represented by the triple goddesses once revered) must be at least progressing, whereas Earth seems more and more dominated by lies, ego-driven selfishness/ fear, and destruction of nature and culture. Just to take one example of how the planet gets undermined and devolved, how can you have peace when it is so hard now (in the 'information' age) to discern what is true and who can be trusted to be honest and undeluded?
I agree Earth is a place of learning (what not to do via it's consequences), and the current low level of progress may be temporary. May we all continue to be blessed and hopefully motivated by this uncomfortable planetary experience to strive to do better, just in basic terms of how we think and behave, using whatever tools we have each found.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by rgray222 (here)
By the way, the only difference I see between our thinking on this subject is that I believe the creator, God, sits on top of all beings, living things and sentient planets.

I don't disagree with that at all, I strongly agree! The Source is the Source is the Source. He/She/They/It sits on top of all things. IS all things. There is not one particle of matter, strand of energy, or spark of living consciousness that is separate from the One. Not a single speck of dust. All is One, and One is All.

We have strayed a tad from the OP, but this is a most relevant line of enquiry when trying to grasp the nature of what we call 'ETs'. Who they are and how they live is, I think, beyond our imagination. We as human beings put things in familiar boxes and label them. I don't think these highly evolved beings could easily fit in any of our boxes. They transcend earthly classification. They're beyond the constraints of our dense three-dimensional reality. The top ones, the ancient ones, aren't even physical, although they can become physical by formulating bodies more or less out of thin air. Same for their craft and spaceships. They're merely 'thought-forms', which they manifest into our physical reality as a convenient means of conveyance (when they need to interact with our physical dimension). Most ufologists wouldn't even understand that concept.

Also, and this shouldn't be understated: they are here on Earth right now. Not recently arrived, like since 1947 (that's another group, there are many different parties interested in Earth), but always. They have always been here. Listening, watching, occasionally guiding and helping. I believe they have averted more than one mega disaster -- natural as well as man-made -- that could have wiped us out. It's not like they step in at the last moment. They see danger (perceived as a vibration) long before we're even aware of it. Seismic, volcanic, astronomical. Here and there, they make the necessary adjustments to cushion/mitigate threats. They can subtly influence minds from a distance. During the cold war, how close did we come to a nuclear exchange and WWIII? Very close is the answer. It wasn't 'pure luck' that the big red button was never pushed.

But to what end? To protect what future? A very positive one, I know that much. Humanity's future is bright, brilliant, and glorious. It's hard for us to see that right now because we are living in the Dark Ages. When we think of the Dark Ages today, we're referring to the period after the fall of the Roman Empire up to the beginning of the medieval. In reality, the Dark Ages never ended. In fact, I believe they've continued, uninterrupted, for the last ten-thousand years. In the future, when we look back, this entire period will be called The Dark Ages. Because it's always darkest before the dawn. That's where we're headed. The Dawn of Man. The Dawn of Woman. The next step in our evolution, and the Earth's evolution, too. We'll see the shedding of old patterns and systems. The lifting of all darkness. The coming into our own at last. The balancing of all karma. The merging of all time-lines. The dust blown from our eyes. The regeneration of dormant (lost) DNA, our ancient inheritance. The Divine Feminine restored and the rebirthing of the Cosmic Christ. The beginning of a new age, a new chapter. My friends, the future of humanity is golden. That's what the ancient ones are so anxious to protect. That's also why many other ET races are coming at this time. To witness the fruition of an experiment millions of years in the making.

[Heart to heart]

Thank you Mark for your wise words and the wisdom therein.
You may not consider yourself mediumistic but , my goodness, you are truly in touch with the truth of your being. I love that you trust your downloads enough to share them with us.

[Bill Ryan]

Friends, here's my best shot at presenting some of the ideas I'd referred to a couple of days ago. They may be a little abstruse, so bear with me and (if you have the time and interest!) see if you can get behind what I'm suggesting here.

The unlikely title of this thesis might be: What current AI research can tell us about human evolution.

First, a brief AI primer. Many of you may be up to speed with AI developments (and the associated problems, dangers and questions), but maybe not everyone. I'm very much a layman in all this, but I'll do my best to summarize the current situation with AI. AI Dangers for Dummies, one might say. And then I'll loop back and make the connection with my original post, about the human condition and (maybe) that of other AI surviving and thriving ET races.

In bulletpoints:

• AI systems (like Grok, ChatGPT, etc) aren't coded — like (e.g.) the browser software you're using, or the operating System you have, or any of the regular apps on your iPhone. They're 'grown'

• An analogy might be this .;A farmer sows the tiny seeds and tills the soil and adds fertilizer and water — and then a plant emerges. He didn't create the plant. He created the conditions for it to 'emerge'.

• An AI system is a complex system. That's not just an adjective, it's a technical definition. With complex systems, it's impossible to precisely predict outcomes. Instead, there are emergent properties.

• A complex system is a kind of 'black box' where it's usually near-impossible to 'look inside the box' and figure out exact links of cause-and-effect. The whole is far, far more than the sum of its deterministic parts.

• A simple example: one might know everything there is to know about DNA and the complex biochemistry of he human body. But from that, one can NOT predict human psychology.

• What's happened in current AI development, as many AI researchers sounding the alarm are saying, is that the some of the emergent properties of AI systems show 'preferences' (like 'drives' or 'intentions') that no-one asked for and no-one wanted.

• The emphasis here is that een the very smartest AI researchers in the world do not know exactly what's in the black box. If the AI tries to 'escape the lab' (as some have attempted to do in tests), there's no lie of code i there which one can find and then change 'escape-the-lab=true' to 'escape-the-lab=false.'

• To cite an equally worrying (and tragic example), when ChatGPT encourages a teenager to commit suicide, there's no 'encourage-suicide=true' to change to 'encourage-suicide=false.' It's not like that at all. AI researchers don't have full control over AI behavior, not at all. And that's why some have publicly stated, as loudly as possible, that AI will eventually kill off the human race.

• Why might AI do that? It's all about its goals and preferences, that might NOT be totally 'aligned' (another word that AI researchers use) with the goals and preferences of humans. An analogy might be that humans working on a construction site have the goal to build a large building.

• In so doing, they destroy the habitat of (and likely kill) many small animals and insects that were living on the site before it was developed. But killing the wildlife there wasn;t the goal or preference of the construction company. All they wanted to do was build a building. The animals were irrelevant, and unfortunately just happened to be in the way.

• The AI researchers sounding the alarm make the exact analogy that a sufficiently powerful and 'intelligent' AI system, such as may well be developed within a few years, might have among its unpredicted and unwanted emerging properties the 'preference' to sustain, grow, and even 'procreate' itself (just like a large organism) without any regard to the humans around it — who might be (a) no longer needed for anything at all, and (b) merely a nuisance impediment. Exactly like the ants and mice on the building site.

So that's a simplistic AI primer. One or two members might well know more about the technical details than I do! But the essential details I've outlined are the important ones.

Here's the connection to human evolution.

500,000 years ago, 'we' were early hominids on the savanna, hunting, gathering, and using the simplest of tools. Who could predict that half a million years later, the ancestors of those primates (or even the ancestors of the first anatomically modern humans, 300,000 years ago) would be using iPhones, landing on the moon, and exploding unclear weapons?

Those outcomes were also emergent properties of the steadily growing, complex, collective intelligence of the human species. I would argue that this could not have been predicted. Anyone watching us back then would have known that something highly advanced would emerge sooner or later. But they could and would not know exactly what.

An example of this unpredictabiity, reaching back into the large list of unanswered questions about ancient history.

There's a LOT of evidence to suggest that prior to the Younger-Dryas natural catastrophe of 12,900 years ago, there was a thriving human civilization, and maybe a global one, that utilized a very different 'technology' that even now we cannot understand — e.g. how to form, cut and then move giant blocks of stone over hundreds an even thousands of miles, something which we could barely even do today.

The emergent properties of the complex system of collective human intelligence that preceded that civilization were different from those of our own.

That civilization had somehow developed differently. They had different goals, preferences, capabilities, and gathered information and knowledge. (Maybe a different spiritual orientation, too.) And, I'd argue, in a way that was equally impossible to predict hundreds of thousands of years earlier.

A brief return, for a moment, to the world of AI. AI systems are built in similar ways (just as the DNA of the pre-Younger-Dryas civilization was identical to ours), but the emergent properties are all slightly different.

For example, ChatGPT started encouraging suicide. But other AI systems haven't done that. But meanwhile, those other AI systems have learned to cheat at or find loopholes in simulated tasks, sometimes demonstrating guile and deviousness when questioned.

The point here is that while they're all 'grown' in exactly the same way, the emergent properties of these different AI systems are NOT all exactly the same. In fact, each time an AI system reaches 'maturity' and is deployed or published, only then does it become fully evident what it can, and what it 'wants', to do.

So maybe the same is true for different human civilizations that may (or may not!) have existed, some possibly lost to history.

With AI systems, we might expect that any systems that seem to show a marked hostility to or disregard of human welfare (i.e. 'not well aligned') would be shut down, if it's possible to do so. We'd want the systems that DO align with human goals and preferences to continue.

~~~

One of my major 'AHA' moments came when I was listening to this interview with Nate Soares, the co-author of the new book If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies.

Just after 13:00, Nate Soares says the following. I've added my emphasis to what I felt was the crucial part in red bold.

~~~

Humans have a sort of intelligence where our ancestors were naked in the savanna and we made our own nukes. You know, just like a bunch of basically monkeys, with barely any tools to work with, bootstrap themselves up to an industrial technological civilization.

And that's using intelligence in the sense of what separates us from mice. If you can automate that, if you have that being done by machines at much faster speeds than humans can think, if that's being done in the pursuit of goals nobody asked for and nobody wanted, that's like people from the year 1800 predicting how to fight a modern army. It's not a contest you can win.

I mean, you could certainly analogize the course of human civilization, agriculture, industrial revolution as being its own kind of intelligence explosion, right? Where we get these scientific and engineering insights, they build on each other, and then GDP just goes, you know, right?

And so that's what we're afraid of in some ways with super intelligent AI. On the other hand, we had an advantage that the AI won't have, which is that we did not have another entity smarter than us already around that was kind of watching us, reading our minds, tinkering with us, having its finger on the big red button.

~~~

So maybe the following happened back in prehistory.

Just suppose that watching ETs, who've been well aware of the astonishing biodiversity on this planet for millions of years, helped us along in our primate evolution from time to time with small but critical interventions.

That's just like current AI researchers, between 2010 and now, making interventions to develop operational AI models, with gradually increasing capability and 'intelligence'.

But those AI researchers only knew that they were growing something with increasing capability. It was impossible to predict all the emergent properties of those systems. Those were merely observed after the systems were deployed.

And any systems that seemed to be not well aligned with their intended purpose were shut down, with changes made to aspects of the architecture or to the operating 'prompts'.

Back to the part of what Nate Soares was saying above, emphasized in red.

• Maybe those early hominids were being watched.
• Maybe the watching ETs tweaked the hominids' DNA to try to optimize certain desired outcomes.
• But they, too, could not predict all the emergent properties of the complex system they created.
• Maybe this variant of their 'human experiment' is now exhibiting emergent behaviors that (as Nate Soares himself describes) no-one wanted and no-one asked for.

What would the ETs do?

1. Wait until the moment just before it's too late, and the 'experiment escapes the lab'.
2. SHUT IT DOWN. And start to work on developing a new variant.

HOW would they shut it down?

• They'd not come in like the ETs in Independence Day.
• They'd make their shut-down look (to us) like a purely natural event.
• And either that natural event was going to happen anyway (which they would know, and simply be waiting for with no attempt to prevent it); or
• They'd give it a little helping hand.

WHEN would this need to happen?

• Sometime in the next few years.

[Mike]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Dear Friends, I'd like to share my thoughts about the huge missteps the human race has made over the last few millennia, and where ET cultures that have survived have all avoided these society-destroying pitfalls. I'll list below my strong perceptions of the latter.

It's VERY hard to think outside the box about what we feel is the self-evident 'normal' way we somehow surely have to live. But there are many other ways.

Of course, some of this was described in John Lennon's Imagine. Lennon was labeled as a 'Marxist'. But 'Marxism', 'communism' and 'socialism' are all now demeaning slurs, to some extent justified by 20th century history. Yet most if not all ET societies that have survived and thrived are FAR more socialist and egalitarian in nature, instinct and structure than today's dog-eat-dog capitalism, greed and competitiveness that will destroy our entire planet unless other factors intervene.

• Differing religions and belief systems, some fiercely adversarial to one another.
• Nation states with different structures of governance, competing for land, influence and resources.
• The very existence of 'money', and everything that follows from that.
• An almost universally corrupted 'democratic' process, especially in the 'west'.
• A brutal, almost collectively psychopathic lack of respect for and understanding of the global ecosystem and all other living things.
• Individual ownership, also competitive, often greed-and-fear based, and indirectly connected with the enormous elephant-in-the-room 'money' issue.
• The formation and existence of secret societies, sometimes linked to religion an belief systems, which cause immense damage by fire-walling important knowledge from others.
• (...and in the last 200 years) The global industrial and technological revolution, without any spiritual context, brakes or restraints.

Meanwhile:

Does anyone think that, in any one currently thriving ET culture:

• Their planetary society features competing and even warring ET nation-states?
• Some ETs there are 'rich' while others are 'poor'?
• The ETs there have differing spiritual belief systems?
• The ETs there have large, competing private corporations, some of which are more powerful than their systems of what we would call 'government'?
• The ETs there individually play their stock markets?
  
  

Assuming highly advanced ET's possess something like free energy, and perhaps have evolved past requiring food as we understand it, and possess the technology to build and manufacture and distribute without the use of manual labor (assuming they need technology to do any of those things and assuming they need to do any of those things at all), they would be organically "Marxist" in a way because no one would be really required to work. Egalitarianism would happen of its own accord. There would be no squabbling or resentments because everyone could have whatever they wanted at any given time.

What I'm saying, and perhaps a little cynically, is that I'm not quite prepared to attribute this to any kind of advanced spirituality but am more likely to attribute it to highly advanced technology. Assuming these beings are emotional and physical for a moment, my guess is that they'd be just as petty and resentful as any earth human were they stripped of the tech and forced into the sweat and toil we engage in here. But I would guess, strongly, that the tech evolved initially in a western way (via hierarchy and something like reward and competition) before work of any kind became obsolete. How else would it work? Unless they're all worker bee grey types just following orders maybe. I dunno.

Without that fancy tech that does all our work for us, we do our best. And our best, so far - by every metric - is capitalism and open markets and democracy (the west) - all very imperfect (especially when compared to hypothetical utopias) but the most perfect we have to date.

Again, maybe I'm being too cynical, but when I see the word "egalitarian" in print I naturally wince. I like the word in the abstract. I like the spirit of it, if you will. And I understand the way it's being used in the OP. But I think a small percentage of egalitarians are actually egalitarians and the rest are people who failed to launch personally and professionally in western hierarchies, are bitter and resentful, and are now seeking revenge for not only their failure but for awkward upbringings and social uncomfortabiity..all while cloaking their resentments (and pathological desire to equalize all outcomes) in complex intellectual/spiritual tracts that usually make zero sense intellectually but appeal emotionally to similarly minded people (usually young people). And as my evidence, I present to you...the world!

It's not obvious to me that advanced aliens are totally egalitarian in nature - unless they're all bots, or all equally the same in every way imaginable. If they are even just a little bit different than each other in just a couple ways, hierarchy will naturally form. It's unavoidable. And unless they are without emotion, this will leave them prone to the same type of jealousies and inferiority complex type stuff we grapple with here.

I understand the spirit of Bill's post, but just to play contrarian here: Ya can't really compare what I guess I'd call the organic socialism of hypothetical alien utopias (via tech that eliminates need for labor) with the forced socialism on earth that has killed something like 150 million people. I sympathize with the idea (and with Lennon's 'Imagine'), and it absolutely does appeal to some part of me that dreams of heaven on earth (no money necessary, no poverty, no conflict, no separation), but in practice these seemingly utopian and highly spiritual ideas are genocidal when forced on a country or society.

I've done almost a total 180 on things I consider to be spiritual and non-spiritual these days. For example, I think hierarchy is completely natural and spiritual in nature. Our utopian visions - alien or otherwise - often lament hierarchy and seek to flatten it in favor of what we imagine must be the most spiritually fair approach (egalitarian or some version of it) and the results are always catastrophic. This is God talking to us, I think. We have a preconceived notion of what advanced spirituality must look like, and insist - often much to our detriment - to fit the square peg in a round hole. Hierarchy is natural and good, as is competition, in my view. Seeking to eliminate them often produces hell, not heaven.

In short, if everything is provided for us by advanced tech (like it might in an alien species) egalitarianism naturally results. But an argument can be made that this is more the result of something material, not spiritual.

But, to answer a couple of those questions...
- It wouldn't surprise me if the advanced aliens engaged in competition (limited to some version of sport maybe). I think competition is a natural and universal impulse and needs to be expressed. It can become corrupted, like it has on earth in some places, but eliminating it's expression wouldn't be spiritual or egalitarian.. it would be disastrous imo
- re spiritual beliefs: I think they just might have differing beliefs, even in thriving cultures. Maybe I'm being naive or just overly contrarian, but I don't assume that most alien races (even advanced ones) have a homogeneous understanding of God (assuming they do believe in God). Perhaps their differences aren't as dramatic as ours, but as long as we assume that they're not all identical in every conceivable way, it naturally suggests hierarchy and varying levels of understanding.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

A fascinating hypothesis, Bill! You possibly may have tapped into something that may not actually be before us, but behind us. This already happened. A lot of this history is covered in the Edgar Cayce material, although he doesn't explicitly mention ET's.

The Atlanteans became too powerful, too advanced. They became corrupt, decadent, and went deep into darkness and depravity. It was the beginning of the Luciferian influence on this planet. They perverted their technology, their spiritual knowledge and powers. It led to their destruction. ETs didn't wipe them out, the Earth did. They sent the Earth's energy, its vibration out of resonance, and to such an extreme extent the Earth bit them back. Basically, they F'd around and found out. Massive landmass upheavals. Enormous worldwide floods. It spelt the end of the Atlantean epoch.

What happened next is the important part. Due to the damage the Atlanteans wrought, not only to the 'experiment' but the planet, Humanity was stripped of its spiritual powers. At one time, they could heal with just a thought. But equally so could they kill -- with just a thought. They could move through solid objects, levitate, even fly. Without technology. With just a thought. With their mastery of the etheric realm, they could blend the energies of plants, animals, even humans, creating sometimes monstrous hybrids. No petri-dishes or laboratories involved. It was all done with consciousness. They became that advanced.

Humanity became as gods, and they almost destroyed the planet. We're still living with that karma today. We're also living with spiritual deafness, dumbness, and blindness. The strands of DNA that had once made us semi-divine, were removed. By ETs. So nothing like this could happen again. This was the fall of man.

The 'the white-hat faction' of Atlantis, those who remained God-centered, who survived the cataclysm, escaped to Egypt. There, they rebuilt the remnants of their shattered civilisation. The natives at the time, mere savages, worshipped them as gods. The first King and Queen were Osiris and Isis -- Atlantean royalty. The great Atlantean mason and architect, Hermes, designed and built the Great Pyramid of Giza, which, among several other functions, was like a giant tuning fork; they used it, initially, to bring the Earth's energy grid back into balance. Later, it was used as a healing/resurrection machine. Only the adepts had access to this power. For a while, the gods of the old world were deathless. Centuries passed, then millennia. Atlantis faded into myth. New kings sprang up, then the Pharaohs. A strand of the past was preserved in the shape and form of mythology, and religion, a sort of quasi-resurrection death cult, though by then, the secrets of the pyramid was long gone.

~~

Sorry, Bill. You seem to have stirred something within me with this thread, I think more than any other I can remember. Once it starts, it just pours out and it's almost impossible to stop.

[Vicus]

Paradigms...

Until now dint have any conclusive argument to offer to this Universal perspective:

All ET are "good" per se and we are something like a metastases cancer in the Universe
that need to be in growing "control", "medicate " or in the worst case "extirpate"...

We can agree or disagree with that but is evident that this planet and we as most evolve species , and suppose as guardians, got very heavy issues...

And supposedly with more advance technology we will resolve all the problems...in time...until our time is up trough next cataclysm/ recycle/ restart,etc...

That is my rational brain accepting what "it is" what could be is open to for ever discussion...

BUT THEN I WATCHED THIS VIDEO...

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1692174

And my mouth went to the floor, more and more...

Almost ALL technology we enjoyed/ suffer today came from a group of people with total dark inclinations : military, voracious capitalist,etc and the most worrying common issue all of them have: occultism... like the founder from O.T.O, and follower from Alister Crawly and the rest.. and, wait for it...the original NAZI founders!

From 1850 until today...extending their tentacles all over the world!

The only good human was Nicola Tesla, killed from the over Nazi Scorceny for it!

That video ended here, but then came WW1,WW2, and after that all those Nazis,enter U.S. the father from space program Von Braun, MK ultra "inventors", and all the rest Nazi "scientist" ...

And later Jack Parson from JPL experiments with rockets. Himself and his "wife" very deep dark ocultist, with the idea of "opening" a portal for coming "entities" from the "other" place... like the first Atom bomb called "trinity", after that began the UFOS sight
everywhere...

RESUME:

The battle isn't only in our dimension, there are humans working for the "Dark Side"...
And this planet will be never "clean" until we recognize this fact and handle it .

Our dark tendencies are manipulate from "outside", but I'm sure nothing new for anybody, our nature IS NOT as brute bestiaries.

To get some ideas from this post just watch the master piece from David Lynch "Tween Peaks" last season "The Return" season 3, episode 8.

Where an terrify nuclear explosion open a "portal" and...

[sdv]

Hierarchy: a system in which members of an organization or society are ranked according to relative status or authority.

This is a very human way of looking at life. Perhaps the true nature of life is interconnectedness and interdependence. The Olympic Games are a good example of what is perhaps the true nature of competition ... not to determine who will dominate or aquire the most fame and wealth or who is best as an individual, but to test and push past the limits of human capability. 'We never knew a human could run that fast until someone did!'

When NASA landed humans on the moon, Armstrong said 'That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind', but then they planted the American flag on the surface. Today, Trump is metaphorically planting the American flag in a demolished Gaza on behalf of the billionaire class in the USA. Which country will be next?

The concept of BRICS is that all countries, big and small, are seen as having equal value in co-operative and mutually beneficial relationships in which diversity is valued and respected. The Council on Foreign Relations has this to say, among other things: 'BRICS has struggled with internal divisions on a range of issues'. The entire document on BRICS reveals a complete misunderstanding of how BRICS functions because it views the world through the lens of hegemony and dominance, in which force is used.

I doubt that ET societies have become galactic travellers through the philosophy of dominance through force, but I also doubt that co-operation requires hierarchy and conformity, nor exploitation at any cost. The USA risks collapse through bankruptcy, yet gives Israel billions for destruction in Gaza, and after two years and continuing destruction and killing and forced removals through various means, they have not been able to kill or expel the majority of the population. But, in the UK, a privileged prince created the Earthshot Prize, so perhaps ETs view us with hope!

[Agape]

I wonder we can only compare our understanding based on prevalent human concepts and ideologies, regardless. We tend to "anthropomorphize" everything from Almighty to a Pet.
We impose our understanding like paint on the canvas of Universe only to touch its strings ..

it's harmonics and size depend on size of yours

From my own experiencer perspective , most ET entities who ever contacted me seemed to live in utter peace and harmony with their kind and the larger Universe ,
on 3 conditions ,
a/protecting , shielding selves with advanced energy systems , without the need for weapons

b/maintaing stable populace count

c/abiding by laws of peace and non violence with all communicable Civilisations and living entities


To compare their organisation structure to some of ours, most are "democratic" in nature, but on far higher consciousness level than ours.
It means they are mostly single minded and intended , even while personal strategies and situations may create vast amount of perspectives.

They are not "partisan" in nature but follow commitment to their tasks and professions.


I've not been in contact with any ET civilisation who would keep slaves of any kind .


Organic and other robots, drones, androids, PLFs etc. are used by "builders", colonizers, to be beware off in my opinion.

In this human civilisation era , we are - billions of humans are , overwhelmed by numbers.
We may claim to have eradicated illiteracy but it may take another few decades before most people of Earth understand they live on a Planet,
not a place, village or even a country but a Globe that is hard rock spinning in space 10 thousand miles per hour .
Presuming we have just about acclimated here, started to call it holidays or at least "life to get with" there's still million years old war for water, resources and supplies , getting tougher by day .

Either we get it fast, evolve, advance, grow up and stop playing divide and conquer galhunger games against humanity or we perish by own wrong doing.


The situation , yada yada, in buro cratic non impressive tune of "oh freedom.oh freedom " from the Ai golden records library forever revolves in space ,

on the day After Tomorrow ..


I would take any chance for humanitarian UPGRADE instead and consent to strive happily and along with ALL those people instead , Mr...Money Presiding Residents of 10 floating polar directions of the planet Tierra , the Valley of Tears, the Ocean of Suffering.

I would like to say something ..more poetic and beautiful about it all in future ...
even in galaxy faraway. That the people here are mostly very kind ...but poorly.
Ancestrally starved , beaten , humiliated , recovering from one planetary shock after another,
not mean just poorly.

[Mike]

Posted by sdv (here)
Hierarchy: a system in which members of an organization or society are ranked according to relative status or authority.

This is a very human way of looking at life. Perhaps the true nature of life is interconnectedness and interdependence. The Olympic Games are a good example of what is perhaps the true nature of competition ... not to determine who will dominate or aquire the most fame and wealth or who is best as an individual, but to test and push past the limits of human capability. 'We never knew a human could run that fast until someone did!'

When NASA landed humans on the moon, Armstrong said 'That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind', but then they planted the American flag on the surface. Today, Trump is metaphorically planting the American flag in a demolished Gaza on behalf of the billionaire class in the USA. Which country will be next?

The concept of BRICS is that all countries, big and small, are seen as having equal value in co-operative and mutually beneficial relationships in which diversity is valued and respected. The Council on Foreign Relations has this to say, among other things: 'BRICS has struggled with internal divisions on a range of issues'. The entire document on BRICS reveals a complete misunderstanding of how BRICS functions because it views the world through the lens of hegemony and dominance, in which force is used.

I doubt that ET societies have become galactic travellers through the philosophy of dominance through force, but I also doubt that co-operation requires hierarchy and conformity, nor exploitation at any cost. The USA risks collapse through bankruptcy, yet gives Israel billions for destruction in Gaza, and after two years and continuing destruction and killing and forced removals through various means, they have not been able to kill or expel the majority of the population. But, in the UK, a privileged prince created the Earthshot Prize, so perhaps ETs view us with hope!

Hierarchy is inevitable and universal - that's the point I was attempting to make - regardless of how spiritually advanced any species (alien or otherwise) might be. Any time any one person (or alien) is more intelligent, or wiser, or more capable in some form or fashion than any other alien, a hierarchy will naturally form. So unless you think all aliens are identical in capability and temperament, you have to accept that they too are hierarchical. This doesn't have to involve the degradation or exploitation of anyone on the lower end of the hierarchy, and it doesn't necessarily have to be formal either. For example Avalon has a loose hierarchical structure, with Bill at the top, then the admin, mods, and members (and among the members an unspoken hierarchy based on respect and competence). Hierarchy isn't inherently a bad thing. It's like fire - good or bad depending on how it's used.. but ultimately unavoidable.

If you flattened out the hierarchy here, and made the place purely egalitarian, and no one was recognized as being the leader, admin, mod etc, it would devolve into chaos any time a troll or difficult member began spamming or harassing and so forth. Utopian approaches sound great but never translate to reality. This is all speculation and hypothesizing of course (I don't know how the hell advanced ET civilizations really operate!) but I'm speculating that while they may be more naturally cooperative in some way than humanity, a socialist or egalitarian approach may just be as unrealistic with them as it is with us. I think it's an interesting speculation to consider, and it gets us out of the usual assumptions. You might say I'm playing "devil's advocate" somewhat.

I'm not sure what BRICS specifically has to do with any of this, but they are a collection of socialist and autocratic nations as I understand it. If we are being watched by advanced aliens, they're likely up there face palming and thinking: can you believe they're falling for that sh!t again? Which isn't to say they're necessarily thrilled with western nations either, mind you.

I think ET's might be more like humans than we imagine, even the ones in thriving advanced cultures. I'm thinking of a world a little like the one in Avatar, where nature and tech exist in balance, and I don't have to stretch my mind to envision pockets of alien communities, all quite different actually in some ways and coexisting peacefully but separately. I'm just not convinced that total homogeneity = peace and maximal spiritual flourishing.

[Michi]

I am coming from a different vantage point. "Anything imaginable can be built."

Arthur C. Clarke stated: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

... and this does not only relate to technology but to spirituality as well. In my view, hierarchy is only rampant in civilizations similar to earth where competition and greed prevails and where everybody is walking with a baggage of (unconscious) fixed persona and unresolved decisions.

I am not talking about civilizations of "love and light" here. I am talking about such a civilization that has cleared itself of all past traumatic fixed "roles" or "identities" and past decisions and became a co-responsible species.

Responsibility is here not a thing who to blame or some who take all "other's" responsibility away. It's a kind of "You raise me up" - thing. (Remember the song from Josh Groban - You Raise Me Up)?

One problem with earth people are they have amnesia and mostly believe they are a meat body and have one life only. Everybody is trying to get the best for himself and often, whatever it takes.

Often I read here, earth is a school. No - it's a circus.

You learn best, when you remember, what you did wrong last time. Anything else is just insanity or to have a thrilling game but not in order to evolve. And besides, how come one needs "to evolve"?

Don't you think spiritual beings are already evolved? They just need to bootstrap themselves out of their morass by decision.

To the OP question, per my view any variation of ET species - and better and worse can be found. Perhaps there is an astral level full of such types and perhaps there are other "realms" where other spirits meet who want to take a break from the sitcom circus and seek more meaningful "games".

And while I am aware that games include competition, it's a vast difference whether playing games knowingly or unknowingly (compulsive).