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Thread: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

  1. Link to Post #22301
    Avalon Member Ravenlocke's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Maimunka News

    ‼️🇷🇺🇺🇦 #Putin warned that #Russia could cut #Ukraine off from the sea entirely if Kiev continues its pirate-style attacks on Russian vessels.

    https://x.com/MaimunkaNews/status/1995903235622568101



    ‼️🇷🇺🇪🇺 "We are not planning to fight #Europe — I’ve said this a hundred times already. But if Europe suddenly decides it wants to fight us and starts it, we are ready right now." - #Putin

    https://x.com/MaimunkaNews/status/1995903456930910497

    "Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
    - - - - Emily Elizabeth Dickinson. 🪶💜

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    DD Geopolitics

    🇷🇺🇪🇺 "We are not planning to fight Europe — I’ve said this a hundred times already. But if Europe suddenly decides it wants to fight us and starts it, we are ready right now." - Putin

    https://x.com/DD_Geopolitics/status/1995889581846131184

    "Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    🇺🇸🇷🇺 #Whitkoff's convoy is heading towards the #Kremlin earlier today. #Russia

    https://x.com/MaimunkaNews/status/1995904498850476299






    DD Geopolitics

    🇷🇺🇺🇸 Putin opened his meeting with Witkoff and Kushner.

    Ushakov and Dmitriev also took part in the talks.

    The meeting began with a discussion of Witkoff and Kushner’s walk through Moscow, with Putin noting that the city’s leadership is proud of how the capital has developed.


    https://x.com/DD_Geopolitics/status/1995901808535826573

    "Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Two ladies I love... Rachel and Karen Kwiatkowski... from their points of view...


    US, Europe Proposals for Ukraine 'NOT SERIOUS,' Russia Fights On | Lt Col Karen Kwiatkowsk


    U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff and Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner are reportedly headed to Moscow to meet with Russian officials, after talks with Ukrainian officials in Florida on Sunday. But while Secretary of State Marco Rubio tried to sound positive about the four-hour meeting, he admitted there is still a lot of work that needs to be done…

    Retired U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel and Professor, Karen Kwiatkowski, noted that the proposals that have been reported on so far from the U.S., Europe and Kiev are “not serious,” and Russia has no reason to end its SMO when its key national security concerns are being ignored, and Russian forces are wearing down Kiev’s military on the battlefield.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Olga Bazova shared this on X in response to wildly inaccurate Ukro-slop percentage figures being spewed on the site: the source is SIPRI - STOCKHOLM INTERNATIONAL PEACE RESEARCH INSTITUTE. They're a reliable source:

    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Ushakov comments following December 2nd meeting with US delegation:

    Source: https://x.com/SMO_VZ/status/1996024413343678912
    Compromises were not found. What does this mean?

    This means that Whitkoff did not bring a draft that would have satisfied us. The Russian side is firmly standing on its conditions, dictating them from a position of strength.

    Usakov:
    "We, naturally, discussed with our American colleagues the content of those projects that the Americans had previously handed over to Moscow. We did not discuss specific formulations or specific American proposals, but we discussed the essence of what is laid down in these documents.

    We could agree on some things, and the president confirmed this with his counterparts. Some things caused criticism from our side, and the president also did not hide our critical and even negative attitude towards a number of proposals. However, the main thing is that a very useful discussion took place. And the parties declared their readiness to continue joint work to achieve a peaceful resolution of the situation in Ukraine.

    Specific territorial issues were discussed, without which we do not see a resolution of the crisis. Of course, the huge prospects for future economic interaction between the two countries were also discussed. If we want to cooperate genuinely, there are huge opportunities for this, so we need to show real willingness to do so, both in Moscow and in Washington.

    Representatives of Trump conveyed greetings and best wishes from their president to Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.
    And, in turn, our president asked to convey a friendly greeting to Trump. He also asked to convey a whole series of important political signals, which his counterparts recorded and, of course, will report about this in Washington.

    @sashakots
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    For what my opinion is worth; it seems ever-clearer to me that despite recent accelerations; Rus is not (and never has been) trying to win the Ukr conflict as quickly as possible, but as "economically" as possible; and by methods that fall very far short of what Rus would regard as real-war.

    The reason is that I am pretty sure that Rus believe that the Western leadership class fully intend to continue this conflict for the foreseeable future, and sooner-or-later will escalate it into full NATO involvement - with NATO-mostly-minus US as a planned intermediate situation.

    So from the Rus perspective; Ukr is just a preliminary conflict, which (and they cannot prevent this, given the strong and lasting consensus of the Western leaders) will become much bigger. By this analysis; Rus therefore need to conserve and build-up their military capabilities. And this is what has been happening, it seems.

    It is this future Western-planned war of Rus against the whole of NATO (plus its various puppet proxies such as Ukr, Switz, Aust etc - who are not officially in NATO) that Rus seems to be preparing for.

    And if/when it happens this will - from the Rus perspective - be all-out war; a war of existential survival.

    So this would be a full war, as opposed to the restricted SMO at present.


    I would also add that those among the Western leadership class who are (apparently) planning this war, have two aims; only the first of which is to weaken then destroy (and pillage) Rus - but the second aim of which is to use war to accelerate the destruction of much of Europe...

    More explicitly; "Europe" will be led into a war for which is it psychologically and militarily utterly unprepared. In effect the secondary intent is that Rus will be used to destroy the European nations. Rus is the spike upon-which it is intended Europe will impale itself.

    Which is simultaneously being conducted by the same leadership class, using a long-term and multi-pronged strategy including: population replacement encouraging internal violence; inciting hatred/violence between men and women etc; inciting and actively-promoting race-hatred and violence; destroying the economy and agriculture, destroying system functionality using "AI" and continued bureaucratic takeover, climate policies, repeated fake health crises, etc etc.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    A reminder to the war-hawks in the UK (and US), Europe, and why a lasting peace should be pursued:
    The Sarmat: Earth's Deadliest Shadow

    The RS-28 Sarmat, a super-heavy intercontinental ballistic missile that redefines annihilation. Dubbed "Satan II, this behemoth isn't just a weapon; it's a planetary equalizer, engineered to pierce the veil of any defense and deliver apocalypse on demand.

    At 35.3 meters long and 3 meters wide, it tips the scales at 208.1 tonnes, with a liquid-fueled 3-stage frame

    Born at Makeyev Rocket Design Bureau in the early 2000s, the Sarmat was unveiled by Putin in 2018 as the crown jewel of Russia's nuclear triad & it clawed into operational status.
    Today, it lurks in hardened silos at bases like Uzhur & Dombarovsky, a silent sentinel against perceived encirclement.

    With 10 tonnes of death. It can unleash up to 16 MIRVs—multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles—each packing 750-kiloton thermonuclear fury, dwarfing Hiroshima's 15-kiloton shadow. Or 10 heavier warheads, each over a megaton, carpeting a continent in firestorms. For unpredictability, it cradles three Avangard hypersonic glide vehicles, surfing plasma waves at Mach 20, weaving through interceptors like ghosts in the machine. A sub-orbital arc over the South Pole, evading northern radars, striking from the uncharted south with a 35,000-kilometer loop.

    Propelled by hypergolic liquids in its PDU-99 first-stage engine, the Sarmat surges to 25,500 kph, its inertial guidance fused with GLONASS satellites astro-inertial backups ensuring a 500-meter circular error probable. Composite materials cloak its aluminum-magnesium skeleton, slashing radar cross-sections while decoys and jammers sow chaos among foes like America's Ground-Based Midcourse Defense. Launch weight begets endurance: 18,000 kilometers of reach, enough to arc from Siberia to São Paulo or Los Angeles in 30 minutes.

    One salvo could vaporize Texas-sized swaths, igniting nuclear winter. It's not mere hardware; it's deterrence incarnate, a reminder that in the thermonuclear chessboard, checkmate means oblivion for all. Russia hails it as unbreakable; adversaries, as the devil's own hammer. Either way, the Sarmat ensures no corner of Earth sleeps SOUNDLY

    Avangard
    The Avangard (Russian: Авангард, "Vanguard") is not a missile itself, but the ultimate payload of the RS-28 Sarmat and (in the future) other Russian ICBMs. It is a hypersonic glide vehicle (HGV) designed to make every existing and planned missile defense system on Earth obsolete.

    Physically, Avangard looks like a blunt-nosed, wedge-shaped re-entry vehicle made of ultra-high-temperature composites and coated in advanced carbon-carbon and ceramic materials that can withstand 2,000 °C+ during atmospheric flight. It weighs roughly 2–3 tonnes and is about the size of a small car.

    Once released from its ICBM booster at altitudes above 100 km & speeds exceeding Mach 20 (≈25,000 km/h), Avangard does something no traditional MIRV can: it begins to maneuver. Instead of following a predictable ballistic arc, it dives into the upper atmosphere, pulls up to “skip” like a stone on water, then glides & weaves at hypersonic velocity for thousands of kilometers.

    Top speed: Mach 20–27 (up to 33,000 km/h)
    - Lateral maneuver range: several thousand kilometers left/right of the original ballistic track
    - Flight altitude during glide phase: 40–100 km (above most interceptors)
    - G-load tolerance: >100 g during sharp turns, making interception almost impossible
    - Guidance: inertial + satellite + astro-correction, reportedly accurate to 10–30 m CEP even after extreme maneuvers
    - Warhead: single high-yield thermonuclear device, est range 800 kt to 2 Mt

    Because it flies a depressed, constantly changing trajectory inside the atmosphere while surrounded by a plasma sheath that blinds most radars, Avangard defeats every current mid-course & terminal defense system (THAAD, Aegis BMD, Patriot PAC-3, GMD, Arrow-3, S-500, etc.)

    Russia claims three Avangards can be carried by one Sarmat.
    Full integration with Sarmat began in 2023–2024.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    The recent transcript of Vladimir Putin's interview via the President's website:
    Vladimir Putin answered media questions


    Question: Over the weekend, you visited a command post of the Joint Group of Forces and brought the capture of the city of Krasnoarmeysk in sharp focus. Is it now fully controlled by the Russian Federation Armed Forces? And why is this city so important?

    President of Russia Vladimir Putin: This city has indeed been given special importance both by the Ukrainian side and by the Russian Armed Forces, because it is not just a major infrastructure site that is part of the network of regional transport links. Most importantly, speaking in military terms, it is a good bridgehead for accomplishing all the objectives set at the beginning of the special military operation. That is, from here, from this bridgehead, this sector, the Russian army is well positioned to advance in any direction the General Staff deems most appropriate.

    That is why it has always been designated by the Ukrainian side as a priority in the Donetsk People’s Republic, and our Armed Forces thought so of it and a number of other fortified areas as well. Krasnoarmeysk was a strong fortified area too. Today, it is fully in the hands of the Russian army, as the commander of the Centre group of forces reported not long ago.

    Clearly, this question continues to arise, because some people are still not sure whether this is really so. For those who still have doubts – we have addressed this matter earlier – and I suggested that your colleagues from foreign and even Ukrainian media – we will let Ukrainian reporters visit Krasnoarmeysk and see for themselves, with their own eyes, the actual state of affairs and who actually controls this city.

    I remember that when we did this a week ago, the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry issued a warning, stating it was totally against this idea and began threatening journalists. This time, however, the Foreign Ministry of Ukraine has nothing to do with this, as the city is fully in the hands of the Russian Armed Forces.

    Of course, a certain level of danger remains, since the line of contact is very close to the city and drones are patrolling the airspace all the time. But Russian war correspondents are working there. I am sure that there are reporters in the West who honestly perform their professional duty and are ready to objectively inform their audience and readers about the developments around the world, Ukraine included. We will do everything to ensure their safety. We will be ready to take them around all parts of Krasnoarmeysk and Kupyansk, for that matter.

    Question: Could you clarify the situation in Kupyansk? Just yesterday, President Zelensky said that Ukrainian forces were still in the city. What do you think he meant?

    Vladimir Putin: You should ask Zelensky because Kupyansk has been effectively under our control for several weeks, completely and in its entirety.

    I think the Ukrainian leadership appears focused on issues other than the situation in the active combat zone and seems to be living on another planet.

    Perhaps, travelling and begging for money leave little time for dealing with current domestic matters, either in the economy or on the frontline.

    Regarding Kupyansk. The city is divided into two parts: a larger central part of it is on the right bank of the river and a smaller part is on the left bank. Russian troops control both the right-bank and left-bank areas, entirely. A separate nearby settlement, Kupyansk-Uzlovoy, is located a bit further south along the river. I believe there are 2,000 buildings there. Fighting is ongoing there. The Russian army holds about 600 to 650 buildings and is advancing. I believe that the settlement will also come under full Russian control within a few days. But this is a different settlement.

    I would also like to remind you that an enemy force of 15 battalions is blocked on the left bank of the river. Russian troops have begun eliminating it.

    Question: You are about to meet with Steven Witkoff, who has come to Moscow specifically for this purpose. In effect, negotiations are currently taking place only with the American side. Why are the Europeans silent – why are they so removed from this process?

    Vladimir Putin: The Europeans are not silent. They are insulted by what they perceive as their exclusion from the negotiations. However, I must note that no one has excluded them. They have excluded themselves. We once maintained close contact with them. Then they abruptly cut off contact with Russia. That was their initiative. Why did they do this? Because they embraced the concept of inflicting a strategic defeat on Russia and, by all appearances, continue to live under this illusion. Intellectually, they understand – they understand perfectly well – that this possibility has long since vanished, that it was never feasible; they once believed what they desired but they still can’t and won’t admit it. They withdrew from this process of their own accord – that is the first point.

    Secondly, now, seeing that the outcome does not please them either, they have begun to sabotage the efforts of the current United States administration and President Trump to achieve peace through negotiation. They themselves abandoned peace talks and are now impeding President Trump.

    Thirdly, they have no peace agenda; they are on the side of war. Even when they ostensibly attempt to introduce amendments to Trump’s proposals, we see this clearly – all their amendments are directed towards one single aim: to completely obstruct this entire peace process, to put forward demands that are utterly unacceptable to Russia (they understand this), and thereby subsequently to place the blame for the collapse of the peace process upon Russia. That is their objective. We see this plainly.

    Therefore, if they truly wish to return to reality, based on the situation that has developed “on the ground,” as they say in such cases – let it be, we have no objection.

    Question: [Foreign Minister of Hungary] Szijjártó said today that we might find ourselves in a state of war with Europe literally today. He says that the European portion of NATO plans to bring its forces to full combat readiness by 2029, and that by 2030 there is a risk of an armed conflict. This is a very serious, almost sensational statement. What do you think about it? Are we really preparing for something?

    Vladimir Putin: We are not planning to go to war against Europe. I have said that a hundred times. But if Europe wants to wage a war against us and suddenly starts a war with us, we are ready. There should be no doubt about that. The only question is if Europe suddenly starts a war against us, I think very quickly… Europe is not Ukraine. In Ukraine, we are acting with surgical precision. You see my point, don’t you? It is not a war in the direct, modern sense of the word. If Europe suddenly decides to go to war against us and actually follows through with it, then a situation may arise very quickly where we will be left with no one to negotiate with.

    Question: Please provide a comment on the attacks on tankers off the coast of Turkiye. Another such incident occurred just today.

    Vladimir Putin: Frankly, I have not yet received that information. I am aware of the attacks on tankers in neutral waters, not even in neutral waters, but in the exclusive economic zone of a third state. This is nothing short of piracy. The Ukrainian armed forces tried to hit our seaports before as well. We responded – we did not start these operations – with reciprocal strikes. I assure you that ours were much more effective and devastating. They primarily targeted the ships that were used to deliver military equipment, materiel, and ammunition to Ukraine. We hit the targets we intended to hit, which we knew from secondary explosions we observed via aerial reconnaissance. However, what the Ukrainian armed forces are doing now is piracy.

    How might we respond? First, we will expand the range of our strikes against port infrastructure and ships that enter Ukrainian ports. That is the first point. Second, if this does not stop, we will consider the possibility – I am not saying we will necessarily do so, but we will consider that possibility – of reciprocal attacks against the ships of those countries that help Ukraine carry out these acts of piracy.

    The most radical option would be to cut Ukraine off from the sea. Then piracy would be impossible in principle. But these are the things to think about if other measures fail. I hope the Ukrainian military and political leadership and those who stand behind them will give it a thought to see whether this practice is worth continuing.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Drone footage showing well prepared defences around Gulyaypole: tough battles look like they await both sets of troops here although footage doesn't show anything in the way of personnel, at the time of filming. How much resistance may be met is moot at this time.

    Description provided by MD on X:
    For a week now, Russian-language Telegram has been buzzing about Gulyaypole, with some even betting how long Kiev forces will hold out. But the hardest fighting is still ahead. The Far Eastern troops ( VDV) have entered the northeast, yet even the initial push meant breaking through dense, well-prepared defenses: wire, trenches, firing points.

    Once the eastern part is cleared, they will need to cross the river and move into the tightly packed western districts, a concrete fortress hammered daily by aviation from the Eastern grouping. No one in the Far Eastern unit expects an easy ride; they’re preparing for a tough, grinding fight. But they’re confident the victory in Gulyaypole will be theirs.

    Source: https://t.me/voin_dv/17928
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Rina Lu🇷🇺

    58 days! That's how long Pavlov's house (or "fortress with underground tunnels", as Germans called this four-story building that stood on their way to the Volga in Stalingrad) was being held by its defenders, Soviet soldiers who, incidentally, represented different ethnicities of the USSR.

    🔸They were Russians Pavlov, Aleksandrov, and Afanasyev
    🔸Ukrainians Sabgayda and Glushchenko
    🔸Georgians Mosiashvili and Stepanoshvili
    🔸Kazakh Murzayev
    🔸Abkhaz Sukhba
    🔸Tajik Turdyyev
    🔸Tatar Romazanov

    …to name a few - a metaphor of our multinational country's resistance against the Nazism. 40 years later some of them met next to the house they had left unconquered.

    https://x.com/rinalu_/status/1996241585202201062



    While France resisted Nazi troops for 43 days before ultimately surrendering to Hitler, 28 Soviet soldiers held the fort at one house in Stalingrad for 58 days until reinforcements arrived!

    The building is now known as Pavlov's House in honor of Yakov Pavlov, a 24-year-old junior sergeant who led the defense. After the war, Pavlov's House was restored while Gergardt’s mill next to it was intentionally preserved intact as a powerful reminder of the intense fighting that took place there.

    https://x.com/rinalu_/status/1996078499648733339

    "Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
    - - - - Emily Elizabeth Dickinson. 🪶💜

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Presidents only rans for office to make money and to satisfy their massive egos... as Trump is doing these moments... all presidents are employers of oligarchs... as we see now... businesses first... Wilkerson ... Kushner...


    Dec, 2
    The New Atlas
    300K subscribers
    New US “Peace” Proposal is “Minsk 3.0” Repackaged (Yet Again)


    The US has once again proposed what it calls a “peace plan” amid its own ongoing proxy war with Russia in Ukraine.

    The contents of the proposal are irrelevant. The US does not seek peace in general, and certainly not with Russia specifically.
    Instead, and what previous proposals likewise represented, this is an attempt to freeze the ongoing conflict, rebuild Ukraine’s armed forces - and if possible - move Western troops into Ukraine itself to create a bufferzone possibly forcing advancing Russian forces to stop.

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    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Well, I'd hoped for something like this becoming a reality quite some months ago: will it happen I wonder?

    Source: https://x.com/CheburekiMan/status/1996248400850035066
    According to Col. Macgregor, there is a real possibility of Ukrainian forces mutinying on the Zelensky regime:

    MACGREGOR: The Ukrainian army is surrendering in droves. Many of their senior commanders are walking into some sort of prisoner-of-war status with the Russians, and I'm hearing from my—some of my best informers or informants if you will that there's now open talk in Ukrainian ranks about going to Kiev and finishing off this regime holding Zelensky and his friends accountable for the billions they've stolen, and the millions of lives they've destroyed.

    NAPOLITANO: You mean a military coup turning on the civilian leadership in Kiev?

    MACGREGOR: Yes.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    • Col Doug Macgregor: Pokrovsk in Russian Hands:
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    Exclamation Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    • It’s Over For Zelensky! He’s Set To FLEE Ukraine!:

    As Ukraine’s war effort falters and Western support crumbles, corruption investigators have now raided President Zelensky’s inner circle, signaling that the global powers who once elevated him are preparing to cut him loose. Sky News reports that Zelensky’s chief of staff and closest allies are under investigation for skimming millions from Ukraine’s energy sector—even as ordinary Ukrainians faced blackouts and battlefield losses. The West, once eager to portray Zelensky as a heroic defender of democracy, is now quietly allowing anti-corruption agencies to turn on him as Europe shifts to a “post-Zelensky” strategy. Jimmy Dore and Kurt Metzger predict that, like many U.S.-aligned leaders before him, Zelensky may soon face exile, arrest, or elimination as the machine that installed him begins dismantling him.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    One more Col. Macgregor... on George G channel... good one too..

    Dec, 03
    INTERVIEW: Nato is a bluff, an empty bluff


    The truth is that Ukraine, its army, its state, are disintegrating, says Col Douglas Macgregor. Pretty soon it will be impossible to conceal

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    Exclamation Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia


    source

    source
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 4th December 2025 at 12:07.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    • Putin to NATO: "This will be World War 3!!!":

    NATO and Europe have thrown everything they can at this conflict and it hasn't worked. Now they're next plan is to preemptively attack Russia. Desperate people do desperate things.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    • Russia Blames the U.S. for Ukraine’s Latest Attack — Tensions Rise Fast | John Mearsheimer:

    Russia Blames the U.S. for Ukraine’s Latest Attack — Tensions Rise Fast | John Mearsheimer
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    Exclamation Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    • Russian Tu-160M Spots Massive Ukrainian Column-Then THIS Happens!:

    • see also this why above video shows how old military stuff is dumped over there (using US/EU tax money) to be destroyed.
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