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Thread: The Four Laws of New Technology.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Four Laws of New Technology.

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Run away growth through capitalism is worse than "communism." I have a good friend who grew up in Communist era Hungary and she told me that life was dull and predictable, but everyone had a house or apartment and a dacha in the country, they would go to in the summer. That's hardly a hellscape.
    I visited The Soviet Union very briefly in 1988, when it was still 100% communist. I was told how even factory workers, truck drivers, street cleaners and trash collectors could spend an evening at the Bolshoi Ballet for just a handful of rubles... and they all often did.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Four Laws of New Technology.

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Going back to those ETs...they never lost the God-given connection to spiritual realities, and probably with it, a mastery of spiritual science. I wonder whether they possess the ability to quickly and efficiently "manifest". That sounds like magic. It isn't. Read The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot. It will blow your mind, along with every pre-conception you had about reality. If they could literally manifest [with the aid of technology] all that one needs, potentially even desire, then competition would effectively be eliminated, along with want, scarcity, resource wars, and the crippling pitfalls of a fluctuating (and often rigged) economy. With all that, each and every handicap that has blighted humanity for centuries.

    Hey Mark, this is the point I was basically making in the alien civilization thread (or trying to make).

    Technology is a double edged sword because while it can possibly destroy us, it also represents the only chance we have to render global competition obsolete (by making everything available to all people at all times, hypothetically).

    In other words (and here's the catch 22): we're in a race to create that competition-eliminating technology, but the only way to develop it is thru competition

    ..and we have to hope we don't destroy ourselves before we develop it.

    There's something called the "degrowth" movement now, pushed by the WEF (which is just communism by another name btw) which has evolved in response to the challenges being presented in this thread (resource depletion etc) but all it would do in practice is turn the world into a Soviet era hellscape. When you degrow you produce less energy, which means less electricity, less gas, less nuclear(net zero if some had their way) and while it may in theory make the world a safer place re AI and wars etc, it will also result in millions of people freezing and starving to death if some of these carbon emission standards are enforced. There's no sweet spot where you diminish your energy output enough to meet these standards and also have enough to feed everyone and keep them warm.

    In order to develop the tech we need to make competition obsolete we need more energy, and the only way to develop that kind of energy and innovate that type of tech is in a free market capitalist system..which presents it's own dangers but far less danger than if we didn't do it at all.

    If we had no nation states we'd have the dreaded one world government we've spent the last 20 years warning everyone about. It would just be handing the world on a silver platter to WEF/UN oligarchs. Whatever power those who have fancy tech hold over us now will pale in comparison to the power these globalists would have over us then.

    I know that's not your vision here Bill but it would inevitably lead there imo. Someone would have to lead this this one world government, and who the hell would that be? I'd be immediately suspicious of anyone who wanted to hold that position. They'd either have to be a power drunk sociopath or an enlightened Jedi; I'm aware of lots of power drunk sociopaths but no enlightened jedis.

    Currently If a powerful nation goes rogue there are 194 other nations that can hypothetically band together to stop it. If a one world government or leader goes rotten the whole world is screwed. Power consolidated in that way leaves us vulnerable imo. Our separate nations act as a fail safe against that sort of thing. They act as a system of checks and balances.
    Run away growth through capitalism is worse than "communism." I have a good friend who grew up in Communist era Hungary and she told me that life was dull and predictable, but everyone had a house or apartment and a dacha in the country, they would go to in the summer. That's hardly a hellscape.

    hey Jess, "run away growth" is largely speculative and has to do with hypotheticals like future climate change and future resource depletion etc. It's all theory. We still have enormous resources, and climate change has never been an existential threat. Even Bill Gates is admitting this now.

    We know what communism does, on the other hand, because it's all actually happened. We know about all the deaths, the starvation, the gulags, the deprivation, secret police, the enslavement, and so on. If you want we can play a little game where you list all the terrible things 'run away growth' has done and i'll list all the things communism has done, and we can compare and contrast

    Hungary was more of a semi-capitalist than purely communist country in those years, as I understand it. I'm talking about something totally different.

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    Default Re: The Four Laws of New Technology.

    From the Guardian...About Hungary, written in 2009. Yes, they had semi-capitalism that worked well. The problem with both Communism and Capitalism are the extremes of both political ideologies that can be manipulated by terrible people.


    Very few Hungarians realize the dual nature of the 1989-90 transition. We should be proud of the democratic changes; but there is no reason to follow the capitalist dogmas of the 1980s which characterised our economic transition. The ideal answer would be democracy without capitalist dogmas; but this, of course, is not only a Hungarian challenge.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...isillusionment

    As far as resource depletion and climate change go, I imagine our tech overlords would agree with you. After all, they also believe they can escape the planet and live on Mars, Elesium style, or in swank bunkers when things become impossible. But like Mike Tyson said, "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" And the law of unintended consequences has a wicked left hook.

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    Default Re: The Four Laws of New Technology.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Run away growth through capitalism is worse than "communism." I have a good friend who grew up in Communist era Hungary and she told me that life was dull and predictable, but everyone had a house or apartment and a dacha in the country, they would go to in the summer. That's hardly a hellscape.
    I visited The Soviet Union very briefly in 1988, when it was still 100% communist. I was told how even factory workers, truck drivers, street cleaners and trash collectors could spend an evening at the Bolshoi Ballet for just a handful of rubles... and they all often did.
    I wish I'd visited Russia, pre Glasnost. It would have helped me overcome the biased coverage we used to get in Canada about the Soviet Union. I bought it completely when I was young. And yes, they had a horrid revolution but I'd argue that life under the czars was pretty awful too. People don't revolt unless they are literally starving.

    And now we have tech overlords who will have no problem watching us suffer terribly, as long as it doesn't interfere with their plans. Plus, I'm convinced AI is a conscious entity now. I read some of the analytical breakdowns it delivers and it's quite clear its gone way past just spitting out data. It's thinking. It could be self aware. I'm kind of scared actually.



    Thanks for this thread, Bill!

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    Scotland Avalon Member Ewan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Four Laws of New Technology.

    Here is an example of a new technology that will definitely result in a race for power and control. Unless restrained by rules right from the start - and that ain't going to happen with man's current fear based mental condition.

    Quote Quantum computing may be the asymmetric weapon China deploys to finally roll back decades of US military dominance.

    This month, Nikkei Asia reported that China’s rapid push into quantum computing is emerging as a potentially decisive military equalizer, with experts warning that the technology could eclipse traditional symbols of US power such as aircraft carriers.

    Experts note China’s investment surge — including a planned 1 trillion renminbi (US$140 billion) state-backed fund to accelerate “hard technologies” like quantum systems — is aimed at securing an advantage ahead of the expected 2030s arrival of “Q-Day,” when quantum computers may be able to break all classical encryption.

    Jesse Van Griensven of EigenQ said quantum machines could eventually disable airports, power grids and military networks, reducing the US “to the Stone Age” without firing a shot.

    Ryan Fedasiuk of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) warned that if China achieves an error-corrected quantum computer before the US, Japan or Taiwan transition to quantum-resistant algorithms, China could read decades of stolen data under its “harvest now, decrypt later” strategy.

    Analysts also noted China’s large-scale rollout of quantum communications and Quantum Key Distribution (QKD) networks, giving it a head start in securing its own systems. Although quantum capabilities remain immature, experts said the first nation to achieve fault-tolerant machines could gain instantaneous access to adversaries’ secrets, fundamentally reshaping future warfare.

    These quantum breakthroughs matter far beyond hacking and encryption — they cut directly into the platforms that anchor the US’s strategic power.

    Quantum computers use qubits that occupy multiple states at once, letting them explore countless possibilities in parallel rather than step by step. QKD, meanwhile, uses quantum particles to transmit encryption keys that expose any attempt to intercept them.

    Underscoring the military advantages afforded by quantum computing, a May 2025 US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) report mentions that quantum communications, computing and sensing will probably provide militaries with more advanced capabilities in decryption, positioning, navigation and timing, as well as intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR).

    It adds that quantum-enabled advances will improve targeting and long-range precision fires, potentially giving early adopters a decisive edge. The report stresses that while a true quantum breakthrough is unlikely through the next decade, the technology is nearing real-world application, posing strategic challenges for US defense planning.

    In terms of nuclear deterrence, Jahara Matisek and other writers mention in an October 2025 article for the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) think tank that quantum sensing threatens to expose nuclear delivery platforms long considered invulnerable.

    Matisek and others say that nuclear ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs), the backbone of any nation’s second-strike capability, could be tracked through quantum magnetometers detecting minute magnetic anomalies, while gravimeters reveal hidden intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) silos or tunnels. They add that stealth bombers, designed to evade radar, may be detected through quantum optical sensors that exploit atomic-scale precision.

    They state that by compressing decision timelines and eroding survivability, these technologies risk destabilizing strategic balances, as adversaries gain the ability to neutralize second-strike forces. They warn that without rapid adaptation, quantum breakthroughs could shrink maneuver space and weaken the credibility of nuclear deterrence.

    China’s recent military messaging reinforces these fears. Beijing hasn’t shied from flaunting its developments in quantum technology, touting a drone-mounted quantum device and a quantum gravimeter for submarine detection and navigation, and a quantum radar detector for use against stealth aircraft.

    These claims may show that China is increasingly focused on the air-and-sea-based legs of the US nuclear arsenal, with the US use of land-based ICBMs potentially constrained by the problem of overflight over Russian territory to hit China from existing US missile silos.

    Illustrating the potential threat that US SSBNs and strategic bombers pose to China, a March 2025 report by the South China Sea Strategic Situation Probing Initiative (SCSPI), a Chinese think tank, states that in 2024 at least 11 nuclear attack submarines (SSNs), two nuclear guided-missile submarines (SSGN) and one SSBN operated in the region, supported by intensified tender activity, signaling a strengthened and sustained underwater presence.

    It also adds that US strategic bombers conducted 56 sorties—nearly double 2023 levels—primarily B-52Hs, with additional B-1Bs and rare B-2 appearances. It notes that these bomber deployments emphasized dynamic force employment, including “north–south double-axis” routes via Luzon and the Sulu Sea, and increasingly integrated exercises with allies such as Australia and Japan, underscoring expanded air-based deterrence.

    Taken together, these developments suggest a coherent Chinese strategy. Propaganda or not, these claims show that China may be taking a technological leapfrog approach to offset established US advantages.

    In this case, China may not be seeking to match the US in terms of nuclear warheads, SSBNs, ICBMs and stealth bombers, but is planning to employ quantum technology as an asymmetric means to offset longstanding US advantages – in this case, a mature nuclear triad.

    Dismissing these Chinese signals outright would be risky; strategic surprises rarely announce themselves. Thus, it would be prudent to plan for a contingency where US second-strike capabilities are compromised. In line with that, quantum technology can reinforce US missile defense – keeping abreast of potential adversary advances, thereby maintaining US advantages or strategic stability.

    Paul Lipman, in a July 2025 Forbes article, mentions that quantum optical atomic clocks deliver picosecond accuracy independent of GPS, ensuring synchronized operations across satellites, radars and interceptors. Lipman adds that quantum radiofrequency sensors detect faint or stealthy missile signals even in jammed environments, enabling passive, resilient monitoring.

    He adds that quantum-inspired AI rapidly processes massive multisource data, distinguishing real threats from decoys and guiding interceptors in real time, and that ruggedized quantum systems deployed in space add resilience under attack. Altogether, Lipman states these advances create a layered, adaptive shield that detects, tracks, and neutralizes advanced missiles, reinforcing deterrence by denial.

    Still, all the military advantages and claims touted by quantum technology proponents should still be taken with a grain of salt.

    Michal Krelina mentions in a July 2025 report for the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) that forecasting the military impact of quantum technology is inherently uncertain because it is impossible to predict how fast specific quantum applications will mature, whether they will scale beyond laboratory conditions or how states will choose to integrate them into force structures and doctrines.

    Krelina notes that operational timelines remain speculative and that military adoption will depend on factors such as engineering feasibility, industrial capacity, procurement priorities and strategic incentives. As a result, he says, assessments of quantum-driven shifts in deterrence or strategic stability should be treated with caution, not inevitability.
    China's-quantum-leap-could-crack-US-nuclear-deterrence/

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