The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

[Tigger]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
-------------

Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.

This thread is inspired by one of the recent 'disclosure prediction' threads that turned out to be yet another deliberate hoax.

This is not a shot any any individual member here: but I strongly feel that Avalon members should have a responsibility NOT to forward fake or hokey predictions or 'channeled messages' - which is currently happening at a rate of one or more a week.

We don't need this kind of nonsense in a climate of the times that could not be more serious. There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.

Be very sure that this is intended.

Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.

I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

To re-post any junk on YouTube or Facebook that catches our eye, thinking we're doing the members a service, might be a well-intended error of judgment. Please always use your intelligence and discrimination.

I'm no friend or fan of ATS, but the mods there immediately deleted a thread about the recent "The Agency" 'prediction' of a 'radioactive satellite' over Munich on 20 October, that was really a forecast comet - not only because it was clearly false, but because the writer urged that it must 'go viral'.

They were quite correct to censor this cheap nonsense and stop it in its tracks. Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.

The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year.

This is not in any way 'censoring the truth movement': the real truth is far more incredible and unbelievable than any fiction.

I want to make the real truth easier to see by flitering out the distractions - some of which are deliberate, and some of which are just naive.

In 2005-6 I was closely involved in the 'Serpo story'. It was a really valuable experience. Much of that was nonsense (and it got more and more ridiculous as the 'disclosure' was sabotaged from inside): but some was certainly true. It was worth discussing at first until it just became way too crazy and was eventually completely derailed. By that time I had abandoned it.

That's when I learned the priceless lesson that the truth in the alternative community is much more about PR than about actual facts. PR wins every time. And the insiders also understand this very well. They're masters at playing their cards.

So, don't help them win their game. Really intelligent analysis is the answer. But that takes time, and care, and real research. The insiders count on you not to bother to do all that.

They financed the creation of Facebook, and there's a good reason for their smart investment. The 'noise' is WAY amplified there. That's why I have no Facebook page, and never use it.

Indirectly related to this: please don't re-post YouTube videos with no comment, or with a simple statement like "Hey, Guys, look at this". I and many others will never watch a video unless someone tells me why I should spend the time. Please be smart and caring enough to summarize in your own words what the added value is.

Added value is what it's all about. If you're NOT adding value, then just keep reading. Though some of them are hard to find, Avalon has over 6,000 threads which contain enough good material to keep us all busy for a very long time.

My best wishes to all - Bill

You know what? My feeling is that Bill’s original message (and the context of why it was posted) has been lost in the maelstrom of complete and utter ‘noise’. And here we are, contributing to more ‘noise’. Go figure…

[JackMcThorn]

Posted by Sue (Ayt) (here)

Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
We need leadership and a little bit of moderation. At present, leadership's best quality is the example it sets for how to post. But moderation is a mystery so self contained behind closed doors it doesn't look like it does anything.

Much of the moderation consists of reaching out to individual members privately via pm concerning member's questions, misunderstandings, and sometime infractions.
Usually a friendly reminder is all that is required.

Also much time is spent in mod discussion of just how to handle some of these things.
A lot of time is also spent on non-interesting stuff like correcting formats, moving posts or threads to better categories, consolidating threads, deciding on membership applications, and general chores.

We do consider most all of our members to be upper-scale folks, in terms of integrity, intelligence, and empathy, so actually, most do self-monitor and pick of on subtle cues. When things do get a bit out of hand, we prefer not to publicly scold or humiliate anyone.

Also - jackbooting everyone with more rules(laws?) for the infringement of a very small minority - well, we all know how that goes with more and more impinging of our freedoms.
Encouraging the kinds of posts you really enjoy by hitting the like button helps loads through positive reinforcement. Funny to observe how some posts get few or 0 likes. Makes things kind of obvious, I think.

Bill's thread "Record of Moderator Actions" generally records steps taken in a factual manner.

Thank you for the explanation. But the unrelenting social media stream of one side of a conflict does not constitute free speech either if particularly everyone, not just an opposing view is drowned out in the process.

With regard to giving a post 'thanks' I generally intend a thank you when I press that button. Some people press it as a matter of having 'seen' the post but I do not do that. I sincerely mean a thank you.

[Sue (Ayt)]

Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
With regard to giving a post 'thanks' I generally intend a thank you when I press that button. Some people press it as a matter of having 'seen' the post but I do not do that. I sincerely mean a thank you.

You know Jack, I have always felt pretty much the same way. I prefer to keep my "thanks" genuine. But as a mod, some folks take those thanks quite seriously and have gotten rather offended when the mods and Bill didn't hit the button so I reluctantly stepped up on the thanking. But I do think you have the right idea. The buttons when used more sparingly can help give an accurate feel of the quality of posts.

I remember when the buttons and "likes" and all were first introduced on forums and social media. Think it was GLP and FB where I first saw them appear. They seemed pretty ominous to me at the time. I didn't like them at all, as I viewed them as a way to manipulate behavior, like token economies were designed to do.
I remember how my dear sister used to get so excited about getting "likes" on FB for her art. She'd call me all excited and say, "Guess what Sue? I got 25 likes on my art today!"
I used to rib her with "Yeah, that and 2 bits will get you a cup of coffee..."
(I'm awful, but yeah, I never understood the obsession with stuff like that...)

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Sue (Ayt) (here)
I used to rib her with "Yeah, that and 2 bits will get you a cup of coffee..."

"2 bits" ($0.25) ... That must have been a long time ago

[onawah]

I think there is still content worth sharing on Youtube and Facebook, though we certainly have to be selective.
They can both still save users a lot of time and energy since the formats are so well constructed.
But I can see the logic of not embedding youtube videos, and I will follow suit with that.
I like the idea of limiting the number of posts each member can make per day--that would take care of a lot of the noise.
And I will repeat my personal feeling about adding personal reviews of each article or videos I post, which is that (in my case at least) I don't necessarily always have an opinion or anything of particular value to add, but in almost all cases the content of said videos or articles was created by someone who has such a high profile they don't really need any introduction or review for members or frequent visitors to recognize or to consider as worthwhile. ( Examples: C.A.Fitts, Whitney Webb, Dark Journalist, Dutchsinse, Ben Davidson, Alexandra Bruce, etc.)
If it's a generally unknown source, some explanation for sharing is probably necessary.

[Bluegreen]

Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)

Posted by leavesoftrees (here)
I think there should be a limit on how many posts a person can post a day.

I notice that embedded Youtube clips slow the loading of Avalon pages ... I'd like to do something about that, but anyone waiting on me for that had best consider some of the fine health care advice on this forum, in hopes they might still be alive when I get that far down my "todo" list. (P.S. -- Don't directly embed Youtube video's, which is rather intrusive and makes forum pages expensive to download. Rather display a local image copy of the video's thumbnail, where one can either click on the thumbnail to view the video embedded, or click on the displayed link to Youtube to view it over there.)

I have noticed in the past few days pages with half the embedded videos showing up and half not showing up.

Are you saying you would rather see videos posted like this?




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh24BCnU4-A

Rather than embedded?

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Bluegreen (here)
I have noticed in the past few days pages with half the embedded videos showing up and half not showing up.

Are you saying you would rather see videos posted like this?

...

Rather than embedded?

I was not intending to say that. I was designing future code changes I would like to make to the forum software ... and confusingly posted my half-baked designs as if they were suggestions for Avalon's users. Oops.

Carry on posting Youtube videos as works for you.

[onawah]

Thanks for the clarification!
I would much rather continue embedding videos as I have done for a long time.
I think the embedded ones probably get a lot more clicks.

Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)

Posted by Bluegreen (here)
I have noticed in the past few days pages with half the embedded videos showing up and half not showing up.

Are you saying you would rather see videos posted like this?

...

Rather than embedded?

I was not intending to say that. I was designing future code changes I would like to make to the forum software ... and confusingly posted my half-baked designs as if they were suggestions for Avalon's users. Oops.

Carry on posting Youtube videos as works for you.

[Ewan]

Posted by onawah (here)

I like the idea of limiting the number of posts each member can make per day--that would take care of a lot of the noise.

Not the first time you mentioned that I believe. In such an event what would happen to news aggregators like the very much valued and dear Ravenlocke?

[Isserley]

Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
But the unrelenting social media stream of one side of a conflict does not constitute free speech either if particularly everyone, not just an opposing view is drowned out in the process.

I completely agree and have seen many quality members leave for this very reason. Freedom of speech is relative in places like this and largely depends on the beliefs and attitudes of management. Whether they will sanction something or not depends on their agreement or disagreement with the things presented.

Individuals responsible for unrelenting social media stream of propaganda posts are now on my block list (only one actually). Don't hope for a better solution.

[Isserley]

Posted by onawah (here)
I like the idea of limiting the number of posts each member can make per day--that would take care of a lot of the noise.

That will just result in a few gigantic posts a day that you'll scroll through for just as long as those 20.

[onawah]

What about the members in question creating their own thread (like Wade Frazier's thread, which he uses basically as a blog) that they can make as long as they want to, but it only shows up as one post per day.
They can organize it by topic if they want to make it easier to navigate.
And perhaps make ONE very BRIEF note on each thread that is about the topic they are commenting on, just indicating that they have new posts on that topic in their own thread.
That would be preferable to all the posts on so many threads that take up so much room all over the forum.
Perhaps a new subforum could be created for it, for just those kinds of threads, for just that kind of member who make innumerable posts per day and take up so much space, so much of it just noise.
I hope this will be resolved soon. A lot of members are quite fed up with this problem which has been going on for far too long.

Posted by Isserley (here)

Posted by onawah (here)
I like the idea of limiting the number of posts each member can make per day--that would take care of a lot of the noise.

That will just result in a few gigantic posts a day that you'll scroll through for just as long as those 20.

Posted by Tigger (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
-------------
Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.
There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.
Be very sure that this is intended.
Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.
I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

You know what? My feeling is that Bill’s original message (and the context of why it was posted) has been lost in the maelstrom of complete and utter ‘noise’. And here we are, contributing to more ‘noise’. Go figure…

[JackMcThorn]

I decided not to die on this hill. I saw something on April 1 that I cannot unsee. My best to you and I hope the best experience possible on PA. An experience rich in the truth. You all deserve it.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I don't even bother checking here for news anymore.
This forum has been compromised and is left wing biased.
Not my cuppa.

[petra]

I'm here for the personal stories and not news
Hopefully those people aren't being dissuaded as noise because as far as I'm concerned that is what makes PA special

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
This forum has been compromised and is left wing biased.

I've been left wing, right wing, broken wing and no wing. I used to be more annoyed at those who were on whatever was the wrong wing from my choice at the time. It becomes increasingly easy to mostly ignore, albeit with an occasional chuckle, those now on some wing I rode in the past. Always best if one packs one's own parachute.

[Chip]

Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
This forum has been compromised and is left wing biased.

I've been left wing, right wing, broken wing and no wing. I used to be more annoyed at those who were on whatever was the wrong wing from my choice at the time. It becomes increasingly easy to mostly ignore, albeit with an occasional chuckle, those now on some wing I rode in the past. Always best if one packs one's own parachute.

Well said,
I can relate to this
I have no clue what wing I’m on anymore!

[Ernie Nemeth]

Take your quips and purposeful misunderstandings and tell yourselves another one.
You know exactly what I'm talking about and seem content with the twisting of the truth to suit your world view.
Please continue finding conspiracies under every rock, that lends to your credibility.

[onawah]

The poll is not applicable to the current issue

Posted by onawah (here)
I don't see that the major issue that I and other members are having, that being the ratio of signal to noise on the forum, is not even mentioned in the poll, which, pardon me for saying so, doesn't even look like a serious poll to me at all.

Posted by Tintin (here)
If one hasn't already, please respond to the poll, here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...Avalon-content.
Thankyou

[Michi]

Some time ago, one member wrote a checklist on how to discern fake from truth (like a bull$hit detector) - perhaps it was from John at Exomatrix TV.

It included questions like, who wrote it, who profits from it, etc.
I just couldn't find that post - using advanced search.

Could you print it out here again?