NDEs, UFOs and thoughts on all.

[thepainterdoug]

After many years of fascination and study with UFOS including my own documented sightings,  I have shifted over to an obsession with NDES  as this topic seems to be the end of all investigations for me   We will all die, so what happens?  What was it all about, and why?

I have listened to at least 500 of them over the last 5 years and have some questions and observations and would love to hear from all

NDE/ It seems there is no way to understand them unless you have experienced one.  However, we have some earthrealm comparisons given right in front of us.   
Water as an ice cube, then becomes flowing water then becomes  steam . All still H20, just different forms
My favorite is Caterpillar, to cocoon, then rebirth as a butterfly and fly away into a new reality.  I'm sure there are many more.

Some difficult things to grasp.
To understand non linear time or no time experientially . To understand 360 degree vision. To communicate telepathically.  To have a spirit body, and to understand we have always existed as a soul identity and always will.

And we chose our lives prior to birth with the help of our guides , chose our parents and the kind of life we would live for our own reasons for the experience we need .  Why?  for growth?  Why do I need to grow?And that this time on earth is described as a flicker of time by those who have crossed over as being told by those loved ones who already passed.   You need to go back, dont worry, you will be back here very soon.

So some of my questions are,  if we chose our parents and life, we therefore chose our ethnicity and location in the world .  Therefore, we chose to be white, black etc, male, female, trans etc. We chose our height, genetics and looks.

But try understanding this as a slave, as a deformed person, as a person born into a war torn area , and as a person born as a rich superstar simply by their looks, beauty and family money  brings up the "unfair "term .  So we need to understand it is not fair and not supposed to be.  Therefore, all is as it should be.

Yet I understand these scenarios through pondering extremes .
If everyone was so called ugly or non attractive, then it would be cancelled out , and equally if everyone was a stunning statuesque blond hair blue eyed model type, it would be boring, redundant and cancelled out. These two scenarios if a reality ,would teach us nothing.

So it is our differences that matter. And the test is, can we still be awake and aware enough to still love each other while these disparate realities exist.  This is demonstrated in nature with the variety of animals living together while also feeding on each other.  So again, as seeming cruel as it is everything is perfect as is.

My friend Kelly Sammi, NDE experiencer says,  " breath and dont resist"  "breath and dont resist" as advice to all.    So in my mind  the question arises , is there anything to fix? 
Well I suppose there isn't, but our free will gives us choice, and how we choose and how we react are the point.  We are supposed to become awake enough to understand and get, we are all one, and all equal in eventually going home.

So the murderer and the victim are in a dance, a karmic dance, volunteering and playing roles chosen pre birth.  This is quite stressful to grasp.  
And if it's not this?  if the NDE experiencers do not have an accurate description ?  then what is? 
How can we die and there is NOTHING?   "Nothing "is a state of comparison to "something", and that needs consciousness in order to be pondered and identified.

So in the end we are given this model as a way to live .   Be kind, be accepting, be loving.  Not necessarily like or agree with .  
And if we can do this, we can show the creator , hey I get it, and have learned through experience here what it's all about.   We are one big family living the dream / illusion of separation
If not this, I have no clue as to why we are here and what we are doing

Thoughts ?
painter doug 

[rgray222]

I strongly believe in reincarnation, and even though I’ve never experienced an NDE myself, the stories most people share resonate strongly with me. Whether we like it or not, at some point in our journey, we will be or already have been the "bad guy." We will be born into a dangerous inner-city environment or into poverty in a third-world country. At some point, we will be born into a life of luxury. We so often hear people say that "life is unfair" because most people only think in terms of the one life they are living now, instead of thinking in terms of multiple lives.

It’s taken me a long time to truly understand that we are spiritual beings having a human experience. Once you really grasp that idea, it helps explain a lot about our world and our individual struggles. The one thing I still find difficult to understand is the ultimate goal of life and reincarnation. What is the endgame? At some point, I believe we will evolve beyond needing to return to human form or even to a physical existence altogether. Where are we heading, not just in a physical sense, but spiritually? That’s the big question I am still struggling with.

Sometimes I wonder if we should just be living our lives without even considering these issues, but my mind (fortunately or unfortunately) doesn't work that way.

[Blastolabs]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
Thoughts ?
painter doug 

I think one important aspect that you overlook is the fact that your perspective right now is being distorted and limited by your brain and the fact that we generally feel stuck inside a body.
After death the body is gone, so our "perception" will be very different that it is right now. Decisions about how we live the next life will be made from this much larger perspective where time and space do not seem to exist.
You can access what I assume without much evidence to be a closer mind state to the one after death. This is the mind state where things like remote viewing occur, which I know to be completely removed from time and space and even this timeline/ dimension.
Our decisions about the next life will be made from a place where we can instantly perceive anywhere at anytime in any timeline, that will likely change how we make our decisions.

[thepainterdoug]

rgray, many thanks I agree

blastolabs/ i dont overlook anything. I am completely aware of that, My earth realm is the only state I can answer from, as your earthrealm is the person reading this . remote viewing is in this fuzzy space for sure, but no where comes close to the NDE states these people testify to

and as for remote viewing, etc I wonder why no one remote viewed the Nancy Gutherie disappearance? All that time, all those questions, and zero from seers and remote viewers.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by rgray222 (here)
Sometimes I wonder if we should just be living our lives without even considering these issues, but my mind (fortunately or unfortunately) doesn't work that way.

Currently, my mind naturally reflects, questions, and analyzes without wanting to overthink. When I become aware that I’ve outgrown where I am, often through restlessness, grief, or curiosity, I begin aligning with what’s next on my life map, whether it was planned or not. As I evolve, that map evolves too.

I begin to pick up clues, and by listening to intuition rather than resisting, I align with the next phase of becoming.

Sorry, Doug

[Blastolabs]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
rgray, many thanks I agree

blastolabs/ i dont overlook anything. I am completely aware of that, My earth realm is the only state I can answer from, as your earthrealm is the person reading this . remote viewing is in this fuzzy space for sure, but nowhere comes close to the NDE states these people testify to

I didn't mean anything negative by saying "overlooked" I should have used a different word. I'm not so sure that the experiences experienced during NDE's are connected to what happens after we leave our bodies. The human mind is capable of reaching a vast number of states with practice and more practice, similar to what people experience during NDEs. High doses of LSD also have a similar effect on people where you are guided and can view life experiences and eventually end up deciding upon and living many many lives/ creating the rules of the life that will be lived.

[RunningDeer]

I wouldn't call my experience a NDE:

Out of sheer desperation and months of grief and sadness of my son’s death, I gave up and collapsed to the ground in the dead of winter in hope that winter would take me away.

No more tears came. No sobs. Only silence. I landed in the center of Blessed Silence. No need to think or wonder or feel. It was black nothingness.

When I got up, I thought it snowed until I took a closer look. There were tiny, tiny feathers all around me. I don’t know how many I collected. Lots. When I checked, I watched them disappear in my hand like snowflakes. And as if on cue, the feathers that had outlined my body did the same.

(repost)

[thepainterdoug]

Blastolabs. no worries. Language is very difficult in spiritual issues

RunningDeer. you had what I can only guess as a transcendent experience . True trauma and grief. I am so sorry for you for this as it is Heartbreaking! And It would be hard to believe and accept that you chose this. Yet this is what the mainstay of NDE people maintain. That we agreed upon our lifes course prior to birth

The pre birth agreement is really hard to accept for the reasons I mentioned in the O P. How does it square with free choice? Choice infers to the ability to change. Its all such a mystery.

The great movie Jeremiah Johnson was on yesterday and I watched.
It covered all the earthly scenarios we are discussing here. The hard horror of loss the plains woman has when her children are scalped and killed is so chilling.

[Craig]

Great post and conversation starter TPD,

I have recently been drawn to the concept of everything being a simulation or a soul trap of reincarnation and forgetfulness, not sure why but as a result like attracts like and I now appear to be in a spiral of algorithm feeding and my feeds are full of more of these?

I have trouble putting into words of any comprehension my thoughts on the matter, but when you read a book or watch a move\tv series there is usually a singular plot? LOTR, Harry Potter, The Matrix etc but here in the world now there is such a disparity of things, how many religions\gods are there? how many civilisations have we had, how many options out there, how many fields of science, quantum mechanics etc, looking at this website how many fields of interest or research can one undertake just here and lose months reading?

I guess I could sum this up by poorly poorly paraphrasing the late great Douglas Adams and say when Slartibartfast was designing this planet eons ago when he got to the section marked options (after creating the majestic Fjords) he then ticked every box possible and then added a whole heap more in the free text field?

[Heart to heart]

Dear Doug

As I read your words they resonated so strongly with my understanding of the purpose of life here in the 3D world.

It appears that in the space we occupy between lives our Soul has the opportunity to make the choices it wishes to Experience during its imminent incarnation. As I understand it, these choices are made in accordance with many other Souls who are prepared to accompany you on your journey in time once more, to either assist or detract you on your chosen trajectory back Home, wherever that may be!

It is like breathing out and breathing in, leaving the Source and returning to Source, Soul incarnation (Birth to Death - that word so feared due to incorrect teachings of the church in order to maintain control by fear)

In my imagination it is like a gathering of your ‘soul group’ around a large boardroom table to discuss who is going be be what and when in the life you are about to enter. Every decision will be made from a space of love for the Soul who is leaving, taking into account any Karma accrued from previous lifetimes. Some of those souls will accompany you in your journey here, some will remain to watch over you as you travel once more through time, attempting to guide you along your chosen path. And it is never easy!

These are just my thoughts for you tonight♥️

[The KMan]

Doug, appreciate the post. There's care in it, not just curiosity.

One thought from a slightly different angle. The accounts you've listened to are worth taking seriously as accounts. What's harder is the step from these experiences are real and significant to the cosmology built around them is the structure of reality. That's where I have to slow down.

Pre-birth planning, soul groups, karmic contracts and the rest have entered popular NDE discourse but don't carry the same evidential weight as the experiences themselves. The original reports are already profound without needing to resolve the larger metaphysical questions around them.

I don't really have a competing map to offer. The instruments we have are well suited to some questions and poorly suited to others and the question you're really asking, what is this all about and why, may sit in the second category. It may also be that whatever consciousness actually is, our current mode of perception is simply too narrow to grasp it clearly from within the experience itself.

Until I cross over I don't know. I'm not even sure the question survives the crossing in a form that still makes sense to ask.

Where I'd meet you is at the end. Be kind. Be accepting. Be loving. Those don't need the cosmology to be true. They stand on their own.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
RunningDeer. you had what I can only guess as a transcendent experience . True trauma and grief. I am so sorry for you for this as it is Heartbreaking! And It would be hard to believe and accept that you chose this. Yet this is what the mainstay of NDE people maintain. That we agreed upon our lifes course prior to birth

Doug, it’s interesting that you describe it as a transcendent experience. I remember when even the lightest touch on my skin felt like a hot poker stabbing me. Looking back, I can’t rule out the possibility that some kind of transformation was unfolding over many months brought on by the death.

During that period, my intuitive (psychic) abilities were dialed up, including telekinesis (psychokinesis). For example, I used to make Christmas ornaments hanging above my bed swing back and forth or side to side, sometimes individually, sometimes all three at once. I’ve since taken them down because one day I realized I wasn’t able to move them. And fortunately, the intuitive phenomena has settled into a natural state of flow.

The great movie Jeremiah Johnson was on yesterday and I watched.
It covered all the earthly scenarios we are discussing here. The hard horror of loss the plains woman has when her children are scalped and killed is so chilling.

I lost count of how many times I’ve watched Jeremiah Johnson.

Jeremiah Johnson (1972) Official Trailer - Robert Redford, Will Greer, Sydney Pollack

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UZQdYvVXaug

[thepainterdoug]

Craig said

I have recently been drawn to the concept of everything being a simulation or a soul trap of reincarnation and forgetfulness, not sure why but as a result like attracts like and I now appear to be in a spiral of algorithm feeding and my feeds are full of more of these?

thanks/ many NDE testimonies refer to a simulation , not so much a soul trap.but as I said earlier, language is tricky regarding the spirit world

simulation?= thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven...

aThe KMAN

Pre-birth planning, soul groups, karmic contracts and the rest have entered popular NDE discourse but don't carry the same evidential weight as the experiences themselves. The original reports are already profound without needing to resolve the larger metaphysical questions around them.

I agree , they are profound. But the idea of a pre birth arrangement speaks loudly to something I mentioned but no one as yet commented on

we choose our race, our ethnicity etc. This is problematic for some

[Arcturian108]

Doug: There are so many convoluted issues regarding your opening post, but one thing that I have dealt with over the years is the question surrounding why would in a prebirth condition would anyone choose to live a difficult life, for instance one involving war, or extreme poverty, etc.? The answer that keeps coming up in my mind is that choosing a difficult life is akin to choosing what movies one likes to see. I cannot fathom choosing to watch violent movies, but look at all the people that choose to see horror movies. In that same way some people want that kind of challenge not just for one night, but for a lifetime.

[thepainterdoug]

Acturian. thats fine regarding choice . But what are the many convoluted issues ? please illustrate . I am not interested in being right, more interested in learning from others.
Everything I stated, I learned from NDE experiencers testimonies.
thanks
pd

[rgray222]

Posted by Arcturian108 (here)
Doug: There are so many convoluted issues regarding your opening post, but one thing that I have dealt with over the years is the question surrounding why would in a prebirth condition would anyone choose to live a difficult life, for instance one involving war, or extreme poverty, etc.? The answer that keeps coming up in my mind is that choosing a difficult life is akin to choosing what movies one likes to see. I cannot fathom choosing to watch violent movies, but look at all the people that choose to see horror movies. In that same way some people want that kind of challenge not just for one night, but for a lifetime.

While I can only offer my personal thoughts, I believe that the concept of time as we know it is fundamentally different after physical life. On Earth, a lifespan of 85-90 years may seem incredibly long. However, in the afterlife, it likely appears as just moments, not the blink of an eye but just a bit longer.

Some individuals are born into difficult situations, such as extreme poverty, war zones, or with physical ailments and disabilities. I believe they choose these circumstances because the lessons learned through such experiences can be far more beneficial than those gained from a more comfortable existence. Not everyone is prepared or ready for the hardships of a war zone, and these experiences may very well serve a greater spiritual purpose.

I also believe that the suffering many people endure at the end of their lives is perceived by humans as long and difficult, but when viewed from the perspective of the afterlife, it is just a small fraction of our human existence, more or less a nanosecond. I believe that when we are in a pre-life state, planning the future of our souls, we view the circumstances of our upcoming lives from the perspective of the afterlife. In other words, we believe we can endure great hardships because it is only a very short period of time.

When people say they saw their life pass before their eyes in a split second, I don’t think they are exaggerating or imagining it. I believe that they have actually switched over and are operating on afterlife time.

[thepainterdoug]

rgray222

I totally agree with your comment, and it seems to be backed up with so much similar testimony. thanks . Time is one of those concepts that seems so contradictory. Many NDE Experiencers will hear it said by their guides when crossed over, you need to go back, but dont worry you will be back home here soon. "Soon" relates to time. But there is no time.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
After many years of fascination and study with UFOS including my own documented sightings, I have shifted over to an obsession with NDES as this topic seems to be the end of all investigations for me We will all die, so what happens? What was it all about, and why?

I have listened to at least 500 of them over the last 5 years and have some questions and observations and would love to hear from all

”This isn’t just a story about death. It’s a story about why you’re here…and what you’re meant to remember.”

Doug, in case you’re not subscribed to Dr. Mayim Bialik’s channel, this was just out this morning. The opening starts off with Vincent Tolman’s experience. The 10 lessons begin @ 55:12.

Dead for 90 Minutes! A Miracle Brought Him Back With 10 Messages
to Help Humanity | Vincent Tolman

• May 12, 2026
• 2.2M subscribers
• Dr. Mayim Bialik

He was dead for 90 minutes. What he saw will shatter everything you think you know!

Doctors say this should have been impossible.

Vincent “Vinney” Tolman wasn’t just clinically dead - he was gone for somewhere between 45 minutes and an hour and a half, with no brain activity and no chance of returning without severe damage. Yet somehow, he came back - fully conscious, forever changed, and carrying a story that has left even medical professionals stunned.

What happened during that time? According to Vinney, everything we think we know about life, death, and reality is only the beginning.

After an accidental overdose in a restaurant bathroom, Vinney crossed over, and what he experienced on “the other side” goes far beyond a typical near death experience. He describes leaving his body and entering a state where he could hear the thoughts and feel the emotions of others, moving through a realm where time doesn’t exist the way we understand it, and encountering a level of unconditional love so overwhelming it defies human language.

In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, he shares the moment he met his spirit guide, learned how to raise his energetic frequency to travel, and underwent a profound life review, reliving not just his own actions, but feeling every ounce of pain & joy he had ever caused others.

After being resuscitated and placed in a coma for 3 days, Vinney returned with 10 specific messages he says were given to him from “the other side”, including insights into:

1. Why we’re really here on Earth
2. Hidden purpose behind suffering, conflict, & evil
3. Why free will is essential to existence
4. Truth about authenticity, love, & judgment
5. How tech & negative influences shape our spiritual path
6. Why our value has nothing to do with what others think

He also reveals why he believes Earth has existed far longer than we’ve been told, how it moves through energetic cycles, and why children seem more spiritually connected.

But coming back wasn’t peaceful.

Vinney opens up about the dark psychological aftermath of returning to his body: waking up in a hospital, desperately wanting to go back "home", seeing departed souls, and nearly losing himself trying to process it all. From being prescribed antipsychotics to a supernatural turning point that pushed him toward spiritual understanding instead, his journey didn’t end when he came back - it only got more intense.

Now, he shares how he connects with his spirit guide, the premonitions and guidance he receives, what he believes “Earth angels” really are, and how anyone can begin connecting with their own spiritual guidance.

He even links his NDE to childhood trauma, explaining how dissociation may relate to the ability to leave the body and what that means for human consciousness.

Vinney believes we are currently in a global “shedding phase”, and his mission is clear: to awaken as many people as possible.

This isn’t just a story about death. It’s a story about why you’re here…and what you’re meant to remember.

00:00 - Intro
04:22 - Accidental Overdose
09:32 - Out-of-Body View
21:31 - Clinically Dead
31:20 - Heart Revival
36:06 - Life Review
38:33 - Meeting Spirit Guide
43:32 - Journey "Home"
44:36 - Earth School Lesson
55:11 - 10 Lessons from the Other Side
1:06:36 - Purpose of Evil
1:17:48 - Healing Waters
1:22:39 - Earthly Revival
1:27:11 - Medical Impossibility
1:35:45 - Dark Psychological Aftermath
1:46:39 - Supernatural Turning Point
1:52:46 - Premonitions & ESP
1:58:14 - Discovering Who His Spirit Guide Was
2:03:03 - Childhood Trauma Dissociation
2:16:07 - Earth's Transition

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1Kh_tC11lI8

[onawah]

I think that Buddhism explains what this reality/illusion is about quite well, though it doesn't really answer the question of "WHY?"
I have never arrived at an answer to that which satisfies, other than via the Hindu concept of Maya.
That being that there is really only just ONE player, and no purpose to the ONE's fascinating dance of illusion, other than the dance itself.
...Interspersed with long periods of peace and emptiness, for contrast, presumably...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=SCRVkyt74Ig

I've found wisdom and helpful guidelines in The Michael Teachings (https://www.michaelteachings.com/ )
...as well, when it comes to understanding the more everyday aspects of human life.

...And this info to put it all in a more realistic perspective:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1714166