Daimonion (Socrates) versus V2K (TI's)

[Johan (Keyholder)]

While I opted to post this thread in the TI-section, it might just as well be placed elsewhere. Mods, you can put it where you think it is most appropriate.

The subject of "a" daimonion is best known from Plato's Phaedo and Apology, where there are discussions with Socrates.

Socrates lived about 25 centuries ago. He did not do anything without consulting his daimonion. How was it defined? Like this:

"Daimonion (Ancient Greek: δαιμόνιον, daimónion; Latin: genius) is the name given in ancient literature to an inner voice which, according to tradition, gave philosopher Socrates warning signs to prevent him from making wrong decisions. Socrates considered the originator of these signs to be a deity whom he did not specify. He followed the beckoning voice, which was always given without explanation and which, according to him, always proved to be useful and helpful. If the daimonion remained silent, he interpreted this as approval of his behavior." (from wikipedia)

Because his daimonion remained silent (when he was about to die), he saw this as a reason to drink the potion of hemlock.

Later on this daimonion was mixed up with "demon", which is just the opposite. It became a more religious subject.

Today we might say it is "our Intuition", "our guardian angel", "spiritual guide" or "Higher Self", acting as a sort of intermediary between who we are and (our) higher states of consciousness.

It was described as an "inner voice". And there is the link with V2K.

V2K is a well known phenomenon that many TI's describe, as messing up their lives or making it intolerable. There is a lot of information available.

But how can we differentiate the daimonion and V2K?

The daimonion is always positive, never "pushes" an individual, is always allowing the person to do what he thinks to be best and it is just giving advice.

(I think) V2K does the exact opposite: it tries to convince an individual to act against his own or other people's best interests. V2K always wants to have a person stay within the Program/System. And we know by now what that Program wants. When not followed up, there are "retributions"... thàt never happens with a daimonion.

So much for an introduction. What do you think? Do you have personal experiences to contribute?

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Johan (Keyholder) (here)
Do you have personal experiences to contribute?

I can’t prove I experienced a “V2K” (“voice-to-skull”) message, but several years back, a persistent looping thought was telling me to kill myself. It lasted maybe an hour before I became fully aware of the thought pattern. After checking in with myself, I realized the thought didn’t aligned with how I felt or my beliefs. Then it hit me 'that voice' wasn’t mine, and it immediately lost its power.

[Isserley]

Not a personal experience but I believe it was a V2K situation - during the COVID madness, my mother categorically refused vaccinations the whole time. She was convinced it was a scam, until one day she called me and said she had made an appointment with her doctor for vaccination!
I immediately reacted with astonishment and without judging her too much I asked her to explain this decision to me.
Somehow through conversation we came to the point where she explained that she had a feeling that her thoughts weren't hers at the moment of making the decision to call the doctor. She never went trough with it thank God.

This is not the only such case related to vaccinations - I think Bill mentioned similar thoughts at some point?

[Denise/Dizi]

A Daemon is part of a computer program operation, it sits idle in the background and waits for its prompt to run some specific action... Surely this "DEMON" or however one spells it in their culture, COULD in fact also be compared to an idle program in a V2K situation that awaits a link or cue to present itself and perhaps talk or serve another purpose.

I would write more on this as I have been lining up biblical wording to the possibility that they are telling us there was high tech back in those days, and we are possibly being told our world is a simulation, and many things pop out as insane matches when one does such a thing... including the words we are now using to describe technological advancements versus everyday things... I just do't have the time this morning to do such a thing here..

I no longer call it V2K, I call it remote neural engagement/entanglement... and it bleeds over to our technologies to remotely pair with our minds as well... Hnce your computer knows what ads to push you, without you ever having said anything about something.

[Vicus]

Stranger Things

Denise/Dizi; reading your post I recall an ... well I don't know how/what to call it...maybe Dark Event? or whatever in that range...

Few days ago try to watch something in you tube when pop up normal size caption demanding! I open my History...that demanding was very aggressive I feel it quasi from a real entity!

And before you count 3 seconds came a flash! like from photo device! and for me was a real photo direct to my eyes! very clear direct to my eyes! just that I wasn't direct looking,but enough for a picture for all eternity in some A.I data bank...

Every time close my browser delete EVERYTHING...and each time start it new is after cleaned EVERYTHING before! all browsing data, history,etc.

My precautions seem to nerve A.I.

[Squareinthecircle]

I'm on the final pages of Phaedo. It sure deviated from the other three.

We recognize dualities in various works and thinkers. Nietzsche wrote of it with Apollonian vs. Dionysian, though Dionysus himself represents a split personality.

Taken to extremes it carries a burdensome psychological determination, and a fresh new title. Though the phenomenon is substantiated by psychology before it crosses perceived lines as well. I like this part. We see it in Daniel Kahneman's "System 1 vs. System 2", Michael Gazzaniga's "Split Brain" research (which demonstrates that the mind can operate as multiple semi-independent systems!), Multiple Intelligences theory (it says cognitive functioning isn't unitary but multifaceted) and more.

I also have written quite a bit about my own experience with this phenomenon. With me it can exibit itself in extreme ways, never harmful though. It's the healthiest part of me. This is inconsistent with the influence of the PTB, who have shown everywhere else they desire destruction on the path to domination.

So yeah I agree- follow the good, the reasonable. We were given advice in scripture to think on "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." The whole thing really does appear like a comical "good v light" comic book story arc. The PTB are S.P.E.C.T.E.R. incarnate. They appear to have used Flemming as fodder.

[Vicus]

"So yeah I agree- follow the good, the reasonable. We were given advice in scripture to think on "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." The whole thing really does appear like a comical "good v light" comic book story arc."

posted by Squareinthecircle.

Resume: Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds.

So spoke Zarathustra/Zoroaster 3.000 years ago...and then his words were "adopted" from Judaism, Christianity and Islam...(more or less)

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1714791

[Squareinthecircle]

Yeah it's the ouroboros isn't it? The cyclical nature of man, but at every iteration there is the opportunity for refinement. For it to repeat means that man continues to find meaning in it over time.

Plus it comes with a Straus-penned soundtrack. (2001: A Space Odyssey Theme)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Szdziw4tI9o

[Victoria]

Wonderful idea for a thread, Johan!

"The daimonion is always positive, never "pushes" an individual, is always allowing the person to do what he thinks to be best and it is just giving advice"-Johan's OP.

"I realized the thought didn’t aligned with how I felt or my beliefs. Then it hit me 'that voice' wasn’t mine, and it immediately lost its power. "-RunningDeer

"We were given advice in scripture to think on "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.""- Squareinthecircle

These are so important in protecting oneself from negative influence and the potentials of V2K type technology.  Knowing these things allows a person to distinguish the external influence from their own and to amplify the creative life force within us as a reinforcement or guide for protection and proceeding well through life.

I wish the ancient Greek lessons would be taught to children in every school worldwide, early on for so many reasons: recognizing goodness, relating to others, for empathy, success in cooperation, for perception and for maintaining autonomy, mental peace and physical health.

"Know thyself" has been persistent for me since 1988. It was the "inner voice" and exact words that I first "heard" internally and repeated out loud before ever knowing where the maxim came from.  I think it is perhaps the most helpful precept in recognizing what comes from yourself as opposed to what is broadcast into the mind and body from elsewhere. 

"In the forecourt of the temple at Delphi are inscribed maxims useful for the life of men... 'Know thyself' and 'Nothing in excess.'"-Description of Greece, Pausanias


(Funerary monument of Kineas- in Ai Khanoum from the Clearchus transcript of 5 maxims (?))

Ancient Greek teachings seem immensely beneficial in this matter, as good as (or even better than) the Christian commandments...and not for the meanings that are imposed on us (and those words) by scholars, but for the interpretations that might make the most sense as applied to knowing yourself - distinct- from a possessing state of mind, from an infiltration of thought, and from negative outside manipulation which could sway a person or society against their own positive purpose, history, course and being. 

(Self vs. variations of attacks from an enemy, controller or competitor: my own thought vs. influence, manipulation, physical and legal limitations, coercion, technological infiltration, mimicry, energetic attacks, spiritual possession, archontic bombardment, etc.)

Knowing oneself is maybe the most difficult thing (?) and most worthy of discovering;  to know what your own special nature is, what your purpose is, what your inner voice sounds like, apart from everyone else, especially as we are so fluid in melding with and adapting to our environments and the competing personalities which tend to surround us growing up. (parents, friends, school, media, government...)

Then, to balance that knowledge and all one's emotions, words or fluctuations of personal energy so that they do not draw attention, or attempts of control and attacks, and to not outwardly, intensely or loudly be bound by, promise or commit to another's agenda.  

(On a personal note, doing otherwise; displaying/exposing intent and personal course, especially in regard to professing commitment or making an oath of action, thought or presence, seems to flag unwanted interference and attention of nearly every kind - almost instantly.) 

...
About four years after first hearing those initial words, my family moved to Rome, and I was blessed to learn more and receive a much better education; finally, being taught the meaning of them.

Whereas in 1988, the only mental image that came along with "Know Thyself" was one of palm trees, long reflection pools and ruins of massive stone structures. Not knowing geography well in 6th and 7th grade (Texas schools during the 80's left lots to be desired), I mistakenly had believed the depictions were an insight to Egypt, long before I learned the landscape was actually Greece and possibly at times, Carthage. 
 
So, I inherently thought that (Egypt or somewhere in Africa) was where we were moving years later and figured it was why I had seen the ruins so clearly. It was confusing to find out Rome did not look much like the imagery in my mind. 

However, the delphic & adelphic teachings (as in making a brother out of a stranger or treating fellow citizens as if they are family- not the incestuous definition) were the very first thing that my sisters and I encountered while on a field trip for school in Rome, specifically ΓΝΩΘΙ ΣΑΥΤΟ. 

(I think of this as though one version of "Know Thyself" (the Greek) was empowering of the individual and sovereignty (despite teachings to the contrary); imparted in order to encourage men as a life enhancing & evolving guidance upon which to build philosophically and spiritually, creating and perfecting outward from internal self during our time in the flesh, 

while the Roman version was transformed into memento mori: it was defeating, and belittled a person's external impact or endeavors, relegating anything a person has strived for in life to the inevitable outcome of material death- thereby empowering the State and keeping minds controlled...i.e.: this is all you, yourself, and your simple achievements will ever amount to without the Roman State. 
The principle was co-opted by the empire for social submission- not unlike technology pulsing negative messages into human minds, today.)

Was it Emily Dickinson who said, "How strange that nature does not knock, and yet does not intrude!"?

We must learn a way to easily decipher the natural voice from the artificial mimicry of it.
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"Do you have personal experiences to contribute?"

One small episode of similar occurrence happened recently. I can also think of several larger episodes that were quite frightening, but longer to tell.

We care for a large number of stray dogs and cats in the county and are often met by threats (and guns) from people who disagree with our actions. Thus, even with county agencies' and landowners' permission, we go at times when the community is least likely to be out and stay very quiet while doing so...for our safety and the animals' safety. ​


A few days ago, I was making a morning run to feed. I like to keep someone on the phone (if possible) when alone at that specific location, in case the effort goes south and I wind up tapping out or in pieces. I asked the person on the other end to stay quiet, please put me on speaker and just set the phone down somewhere to listen for 10 minutes +/- until I could talk easily again.

Having set the lock screen option and dropped the phone in my pocket, I ventured down the hill. The very second that I landed at the bottom of the ravine, there was an ominous warning feeling and the thought, "Look out."

All of a sudden, my phone, which had all its notifications silenced, started ringing loudly from my pocket. Piercing the early morning serenity. It was geo-locating and calling all at once.

I scrambled to reach for it and turn off the ringer. The ringer wasn't even on, but the person who was supposed to be silently listening was calling. (&#$@!!) I hung up.

Instantly, they called back again. I hung up. Again, and again. Frustrated, because I couldn't talk or stop the ringing, I tried to turn off the phone completely but couldn't.

Then a dense cloud of birds poured out of the small culvert right above my head and swarmed back in loose circles, squawking very loudly. I looked up in total shock. We had crawled into the tunnel several times previously trying to affix cameras or solar panels and there were no birds or nests present. The area often fills with rushing water and pours down hard- so it would not be hospitable for roosting (or filming).

The phone began ringing again as the birds swirled, swooping down around me. Startling as it was, I felt VERY relieved by their noise which had perfectly masked the phone and blanketed my presence.

A different person started calling. Unrelated. Back-to-back calls, from one then the other, non-stop. I felt like smashing the phone into a million pieces to keep it quiet. (Why would anyone call at this early morning hour?!) There wasn't a way to simply run from the area which I had precariously climbed down into. We're generally cautious because it forms a perfect kill box should anyone try to harm us or the animals while down there.

When I realized something "strange" was happening, I sought to then film the birds, but the camera option would turn off every time the phone rang...which was nearly every three- five seconds. I did manage to capture a departing glimpse of them before they dispersed.



Once I was safely out of the ravine again, the birds disappeared completely. I only turned away to focus on hand placement and footing, then at the top, I attempted to look back at them, but they were no longer there. No trace of them.

The phone also stopped sounding as soon as I was back topside.

Driving away, I called the person who had been on the line with me, and they were panicked that something had happened. The call had dropped, their phone had not even been in their hands when it dropped, and then their own device lost all bars and service as they realized we were no longer connected. They were still trying to figure out how to turn it on again when I called them. They had "definitely not" been calling me.

I stared at all the missed calls with their number.

Once home, I asked the other person who was calling, why they had called so early. Was everything okay?

I related how ironic and dangerous the timing had been.

Confused, they said they never had called. Their phone had been off since the previous evening, and they were sleeping soundly all morning.


Just one of those weird technology things...with a premonition that preceded it.

Targeting in general. I think it's all connected and want to believe there is a way to use our inner voice, or the Daimonion, in order to recognize when it is happening and safeguard ourselves and others.

[Squareinthecircle]

I love that this place is so steeped in Socrates and the Greeks. I don't find that everywhere. Yeah I have written those words in many of my articles even, describing the source even- graffiti. The program works hard to separate us from ourselves though. When I attempt to think of distant memories often they give me panic attacks. They try to obfuscate them as well. They affect me so intensely and for such a long time that when there is a change I realize that for a period I had been parted quite a bit from who I am.

A relationship with God keeps me on solid ground, or as much as can be found. Protocol can be followed rather than one's judgements. For most there are permanent changes through psychological manipulation- PTSD and the like. Instead they can simply keep whatever effect they desire artificially activated fulltime. Is it real or is it Memorex?

This is the first of a 5-part series on maintaining psychological health as a TI. Please make use of it if you have need of it. I believe it may suprise you- I put all the wisdom I had in me at the time into it.

https://grayetheory.substack.com/p/p...-psychological

[Johan (Keyholder)]

Great story about Gnothi Seauton ("Know Thyself") and Delphi, Victoria!

That you heard this when you were only 10 (right?) is amazing. Your Daimonion was already then "hard at work"! Good for you, few have that chance, so early in life.

Since I was 12 year old, Socrates was one of my "heroes". And "Know Thyself" has been kind of my motto since then.

I can say that my entire life has been "built" around that, for more than half a century.

Since I was 12 year old, Socrates was one of my "heroes". And "Know Thyself" has been kind of my motto since then.

It has been an important part of what I consider "my Mission in Life", to share ideas and experiences about this with others. But most of the time, those seeds did not find a fertile ground. Nowadays, it's even more rare than say 30-40 years ago. So, it's very much a personal quest now.

Delphi ranks very high in my "top ten" of spiritual places I have visited so far.
The first time I was there, there was a strange 'déjà vu' kind of feeling. I felt right at home there.

It IS a beautiful area too of course.

Several unusual things happened there. While I was sitting with my back leaning into an ancient wall (part of the temple of Apollo), enjoying the olive gardens in front of me and the Gulf of Corinth in the basking sun in the distance, I suddenly noticed a coin. It was a 1 € piece. Nothing special... except, it had the "Vitruvian Man" on it! Very special to find it right on that magical place.

Not far from Delphi there is a special cave: the Corycian cave.It's the largest cave in the Delphi area, you can find it on the southern slopes of Mt Parnassus. It has a remarkable history, it was already a sacred site in the Neolithic era (and I believe, much, much before that too).

I can't say why, but for me, this particular cave "predates" everything that exists at Delphi. They say that Delphi "is the navel of the world", and in the museaum in Delphi you can actually "see" it and this it is "the omphalos" (it's not the original though, but it gives an idea).

The Pythia, the high priestess in the temple of Apollo, was an oracle (for Apollo). And it was the Pythia that said (in an oracle) that Socrates was the "wisest man in Athens" (or the world...).

Socrates had trouble believing that, but he discovered that his peers falsely claimed to know things they did not. He concluded that the Oracle was right, though for a paradoxical reason: he was the wisest simply because he was the only one conscious of his own ignorance. Socrates realized his famous maxim: "I know that I know nothing."

And as a result, he developed his "Socratic Method" (which I think is still the best way to educate people).

This is such a magical place, if you have a chance to go there, please do, you won't regret it.

As for me, in a few months I am going (back again) to Rennes-le-Château and Montségur, two very magical places in Cathar Country.

[Victoria]

Squareinthecircle,

Thank you for your work and willingness to share! I subscribed.

When I attempt to think of distant memories often they give me panic attacks.

This happens for me as well.

For most there are permanent changes through psychological manipulation- PTSD and the like

I think I encountered this heavily as a child and the advantage of it occurring then was only youth and innocence (ignorance?); having the rest of life to recognize, adapt, work at and overcome it in any way possible. Took the better part of 40 years and still... ...


---

Johan, your travels are aesthetically, intellectually and symbolically rich.

Not far from Delphi there is a special cave: the Corycian cave.It's the largest cave in the Delphi area, you can find it on the southern slopes of Mt Parnassus. It has a remarkable history, it was already a sacred site in the Neolithic era (and I believe, much, much before that too).

...

I imagine the cave touched the realm of spirits and life long before
man... ritual history there must be extensive. Is it open for the public to explore?

Finding an Italian Euro there while actually touching the temple of Apollo is beautiful.  Serendipitous messages waiting to be discovered.

(writing this for anyone who isn't aware, as I had no idea what a daimonion was until this thread- among some of the other ancient concepts) 
Squaring the circle was one of the three classical Greek problems of antiquity evoked in Da Vinci's artwork. Similarly, doubling the cubical altar to Apollo in Delos was also one of the three major problems in Greek mathematics- an appeal to divine order through mathematical proportion, prescribed by the oracle at Delphi.

In Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man, man stands between the square and the circle; he becomes the meeting point of heaven and earth, spirit and matter. (What is mind and memory?)

For occult purposes and also control, this might explain associated significance, tactics of targeting and a desire to subdue human thought or behavior through symbolic and energetic points of the body.

The human body is not just biological matter, but a kind of living diagram in proportion, symmetry, hierarchy, and harmony; a symbolic microcosm, or fractal of God and energy.

We are a fractal of the whole.

For any fellow Americans who are not aware of the symbolism which probably extends well beyond this (I think other nationalities often know (& are exposed to) more than us, typically), here is a brief video about Vitruvian Man and some of its mathematical, logistical beauty...with one brief vantage of the esoteric symbolism or connection: https://youtu.be/_83r4FCPA9o?si=JXxnFTYueCvTLuz4


...Rennes-le-Château being related to that, too, through Templar mythos, stories of François-Bérenger Saunière, the gold treasure assembled by Blanche of Castile (Queen of France) and Merovingian lore. My family has been there and follows all things related, closely.

I hope your time there is wonderful!

How much has your sense/awareness of a daimonion influenced your travels?

[Johan (Keyholder)]

A very nice description of the "inner meanings" of esoteric symbolism Victoria!

Besides my travels, many of my personal experiences have been like that: holding "serendipitous messages waiting to be discovered".
But I know well that this has been exactly the same for you.

It makes Life a rich experience, but very often, "tough" as well.