Do vaccines contribute to autism? Should we vaccinate?

[AutumnW]

If people won't change their mind or alter their point of view I'm okay with that. Because I can be wrong too and some areas are largely opinion driven.

But if someone *CAN'T* change their mind because their ego is too fragile to handle an admission of error, I don't bother communicating with them. You can always tell, because they can't bring themselves to state, "I might be wrong."

[AutumnW]

Agree Ernie. I think that out of an abundance of caution, hypothetically speaking, if I had a baby, I wouldn't let the child be vaccinated during infancy or as a toddler, particularly with the 3 in 1 vaccine.

That doesn't mean I "know" they are harmful, but there is a lot of uncertainty.

There IS a tremendous amount of autism. It seems like everybody I know has an autistic child or grandchild. This was unheard of a few decades ago.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Show me where this bias is evident, Pythonic Cow ...

That is for you to tell us. It is yourself who stated:

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Everybody interested enough in the autism phenomenon enters with a strong bias

You have shown interest in the autism phenomenon, and you have asserted that everybody so interested has a strong bias.

[onawah]

The courageous doctors and researchers who have risked their careers and even their lives to speak the truth about what they witnessed in their own patients and study subjects deserve respect and thanks, as much as the parents who reported the devastation they had to personally endure.
Like the parents of children who were maimed and killed by vaccines, no doubt they also had occasion to see in person the tragic consequences to those innocents, and have regretted any hand they might have had in upholding Big Pharma's murderous agendas.
It's difficult to imagine what it must feel like to have spent so many years in medical school in order to get a degree, only to discover at last that what you have become a part of is actually in large part criminal.

[onawah]

Danish Fugitive Poul Thorsen, a Vaccine Researcher, Is Extradited to the U.S. Will his Autism studies finally be retracted?
by Louis Conte
May 11, 2026
https://www.themahareport.com/p/dani...rsen-a-vaccine

(Podcast at the link. Hyperlinks in the article not embedded here.)

"Thorsen's research for the CDC in the early 2000s is still used to deny the vaccine-autism link.

On May 7, 2026, Dr. Poul Thorsen was flown, wearing handcuffs and in federal custody, from Germany to the U.S. He’s the Danish scientist the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) employed in the 2000s to exonerate thimerosal-containing vaccines, and the MMR vaccine, from the rise of autism in the United States.

Thorsen, who fled to Europe 15 years ago, is accused of stealing $1 million in CDC grant money for autism and genetics research. According to Georgia authorities, Germany agreed to extradite Thorsen earlier this year.


Poul Thorsen escorted by authorities from the Office of HHS Inspector General

Thorsen, 65, was arrested last year in Germany after evading arrest in Denmark for over fifteen years. German authorities discovered an Interpol notice indicating that he was wanted.

In April 2011, Thorsen was indicted by the Department of Health and Human Services Office of Inspector General on 22 counts of wire fraud. He fled to Europe before he could be arrested and has been a wanted man ever since.

Thorsen had been working as a gynecologist at a medical practice in Middelfart, Denmark, and somehow evaded capture until Robert F. Kennedy Jr. became Secretary of HHS and re-invigorated the effort to bring him to justice.

Thorsen is being held in detention in Atlanta and will face federal charges for wire fraud and money laundering.

“Poul Thorsen allegedly stole more than $1 million in federal grant money by submitting fabricated invoices and diverting funds to his personal bank accounts,” said U.S. Attorney Theodore S. Hertzberg, as quoted in a press release issued by the U.S. Attorney’s Office, Northern District of Georgia. “International fugitives who think they can avoid responsibility for serious federal crimes by living overseas are wrong. Due to the unwavering persistence of my office and our law enforcement partners, Thorsen has been extradited to the United States and will face justice in federal court.”

According to author and investigator James Ottar Grundvig, Thorsen traveled freely around Denmark and all of Scandinavia, and even purchased a second home in Sweden, after his indictment and after a warrant was issued for his arrest.

Previous administrations did not appear interested in pursuing Thorsen, but Grundvig, author of Master Manipulator, easily located Thorsen living openly, apparently without concern of being captured in Denmark.



“The master manipulator behind the CDC fraudulent autism and vaccine studies is no longer on the lam,” Grundvig told The MAHA Report. “HHS Secretary Kennedy now has the leader of CDC’s corruption in custody. Will Thorsen cooperate? Will he expose his old-guard collaborators? The 22-count indictment and his age – 65 – says he will. It is time to name names.” Grundvig added, “An entire generation of vaccine-injured children who are scarred for life, are waiting for the truth to emerge.”

Thorsen is accused of using CDC money to purchase a house in Georgia, two cars, and a motorcycle. He also allegedly used the agency’s money to fuel his organization, the North Atlantic Neuro-Epidemiology Alliance (NANEA). The purpose of NANEA’s research was to take health data from Denmark – not America – to conduct studies to determine whether vaccines were behind the rise in autism in the U.S.

NANEA was known to throw extravagant, catered parties in Denmark, where expensive liquor flowed.

As I detailed in our August 8, 2025 article, Aluminum, Vaccines, and the Wild Boys From Denmark, Thorsen’s organization lived the high life. And the NANEA researchers had exclusive access to Denmark’s autism data.

U.S. researchers do not have access to Danish medical data because of laws restricting access to foreigners in that country. Back in the 2000s, the CDC needed Thorsen, NANEA and Danish data.

Why American public health data was not used begs a lot of questions.

Thorsen’s NANEA no longer exists but it became the template of the Danish research on environmental causes of autism and other chronic diseases. His research buddies have continued to receive CDC research money and enjoy extensive coverage in U.S. legacy media outlets despite the tainted legacy of Thorsen’s research racketeering.

At NANEA, Thorsen’s team included Anders Hviid, the lead author of last year’s paper that once again used health data from Denmark to claim that aluminum in vaccines is not linked to autism and other chronic health conditions.

Last year, Kennedy wrote an editorial in the TS News entitled “Flawed Science, Bought Conclusions: The Aluminum Vaccine Study the Media Won’t Question,” and called for a retraction of Hviid’s aluminum paper.

Danish research recently emerged with another paper exonerating Tylenol in the increase in autism. Autism Speaks, which has a history of denying the autism epidemic, and all non-genetic causes for the disorder,while providing cover for Big Pharma, immediately published an article supporting the Danish Tylenol paper.

In April, Kennedy criticized the Danish Tylenol paper on X, writing,“The study is a garbage study; it should be retracted.” Kennedy noted that the study took its data solely from prescriptions, which he said limited the scope of women who took acetaminophen. In the U.S., Tylenol can be purchased over the counter.

Kennedy is not alone in criticizing Danish research as this article, What’s Wrong with “The Danish Study”? from Science, Public Health Policy and the Law, clearly enumerates.

Good information on the link between Tylenol and Autism is available in Dr. William Parker’s Tylenol and Autism.



The CDC has a history of using Danish research to produce papers to exonerate pharmaceutical companies from accusations that their products lead to spikes in autism rates and other chronic childhood illnesses. Pro pharma media and often promote Danish research, ignore the history of Thorsen’s research racketeering and the manipulation of shady data that is restricted from anyone who is not a resident of Denmark.

Thorsen’s NANEA research team produced a series of papers in the early 2000s which were used by the CDC to claim that vaccines do not cause autism. The research was enormously valuable at that time because 5,000 families had filed claims against the Secretary of HHS in the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (the NVICP, otherwise known as the ‘Vaccine Court’), claiming that vaccine injuries triggered their children’s autism.

In a series of decisions by the Special Masters, who adjudicate cases in NVICP, Thorsen and Hviid’s research was used to rule against the families in a proceeding known as the Omnibus Autism Proceedings.

Had HHS lost in those proceedings, the payouts to injured children would have been in the billions. The reputation of vaccines would be forever tarnished.

Unfortunately, the CDC was complicit in using Thorsen’s research to deny justice and compensation for those families who had their cases wrongly dismissed by the illegitimate science that Thorsen produced.

Thorsen’s legacy has tainted the research that Denmark produces on vaccines. Public health authorities and media outlets should stop reporting on Danish research from Thorsen associates as, time after time, the studies produced are flawed and serve only the interests of Big Pharma.

Poul Thorsen now sits in detention in a federal holding facility in Georgia. He will soon face the American justice system.

Will Thorsen disclose damaging information about public health officials who facilitated his corrupt research? Will the mainstream medical associations and the legacy media finally admit that the autism research Thorsen directed was flawed?

We shall see.

This Substack is reader-supported. "

[Tintin]

Must listen: or "Put on your listening ears!" as Judge Judith Sheindlin is often wisely heard to say.

Here's Dr Paul Offit in what is most likely a hot-mic/caught on camera moment of candour, encouraging the (mainstream) media to 'lie' about the vaccine link to autism.

Unsure on what date this happened, but, it's most definitely real, and was posted to YouTube 10 years ago:

"...you can't really say MMR doesn't cause autism."

That's quite a deviously clever deflect, suggesting, also, that you can't say it does, so creating a very ambiguous space

Here's the YouTube link, the segment at 21:54, ostensibly the same as the embed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2cHZa8t98w

The full YouTube video description is here:

The original title: Achieving Childhood Vaccination Success in the U.S. Expert Panel

Below is a copy of the description from the original video:

Published on May 16, 2016

The National Meningitis Association (www.nmaus.org) hosted a panel discussion, Achieving Childhood Vaccine Success in the U.S., before its 2016 “Give Kids a Shot” Gala on May 9, 2016. The panel addressed a range of issues including parents who opt out of childhood vaccine requirements, physicians who stray from the recommended vaccine schedule, and the role of the media in creating or removing barriers to vaccine success.

The panelists included
• Arthur Caplan, PhD., Professor of Medical Ethics at NYU Langone Medical Center
• Carol Baker, M.D., Professor of Pediatrics, Molecular Virology and Microbiology at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston
• Paul Offit, M.D., Director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia
• Dorit Rubinstein Reiss, PhD., Professor of Law at UC Hastings College of Law
• William Schaffner, M.D., Professor of Preventive Medicine and Infectious Diseases, Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
• Alison Singer, President of Autism Science Foundation
• Paul Lee, M.D., Director of the International Adoption Program and Pediatric Travel Center at Winthrop-University Hospital in Mineola, New York (moderator)

___________________________

My views on the character of Paul Offit, in as much as there is, by any real definition, character, I'll leave for others to have a guess at

[onawah]

I did a search and it turns out I have 3 pages of articles & videos I've posted about Offit, 52 in total, going back to this one posted in 2011 (which also implicates Thorsen):

Posted by onawah (here)
Indictment of vaccine researcher demands review of published scientific conclusions

(This extends even to implicating Rupert Murdoch.)

From:
http://www.naturalnews.com/033347_va...l_Thorsen.html
Wednesday, August 17, 2011 by: PF Louis

When it comes to vaccine efficacy and safety, the vaccine industry, CDC, and other medical establishment authorities close their eyes and lie so often it sticks as reality to the mainstream media and gets to the masses. One only needs to look at the criminality of major vaccine pushers to begin questioning the vaccine industry's veracity. Some of them have actually been indicted or reprimanded for fraudulent activity.

Meanwhile, the vaccine industry's slanderous lies about an honest pediatrician, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, and his research continue to influence the public.

Two Major Shady Vaccine Players

Dr. Poul Thorsen and Dr. Paul Offit are in the forefront of the fraudulent propaganda campaigns to blind parents of vaccinated children from the truth. Thorsen is more the behind the scenes institutional manipulator, while Offit, the Philadelphia Children's Hospital's chief pediatrician, is a publicly outspoken proponent of vaccinating children early and often.

Dr. Thorsen has had influence in slanting Danish studies against possible links with vaccinations and autism. He has managed to get medical journals to exclude items that imply vaccination problems while printing his recommendations, which "disprove" any links to autism.

He has also served as a consultant for the CDC (Center for Disease Control) in Atlanta, Georgia. He has been a key figure for the CDC's efforts at white washing any connections with vaccinations and autism or other brain related vaccine injuries.

This April, 2011, Dr. Thorsen was indicted in Atlanta for nine counts of money laundering and thirteen counts of fraud. These are actual U.S. DOJ (Department of Justice) indictments, not the slander of a hired hack journalist such as the one used to defame Dr. Andrew Wakefield in England.
The DOJ indictments involve schemes used by Dr. Thorsen to put funding designated for research into his personal bank accounts.

Thorsen rigged reports omitting data to help the Danish Institute of Medicine determine that there is no link with mercury used in vaccines to autism. This declaration was the international foundation for not removing mercury from vaccines in 2003.

The DOJ found factual data to indict him for juggling with funds and skimming huge profits. This should also prompt further investigation into his medical journal manipulations.

Then there is Dr. Paul Offit, who has written pro-childhood vaccination books and articles and who has given lectures insisting on upping the vaccination schedules for children to a national level (that's now the highest in the world). With that, the USA ranks among the highest in infant mortality rates. He once publicly blustered that a six month old infant could withstand 10,000 vaccines safely.

A U.S. Congressional report shows clearly that Offit has several financial ties to various vaccine manufacturers, especially Merck. He is a paid mouthpiece for the vaccine industry while posing as a concerned pediatrician.

He is so concerned about the welfare of children that he was involved with publishing a pediatric policy paper supporting less pediatric care for children who aren't vaccinated, while advocating legislation to restrict vaccination exemptions.

Can you say "conflict of interest"? Offit shares the patent with Merck for the Rotavirus vaccine he had developed. As a member of Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), he made sure the Rotavirus vaccination was placed into the recommended childhood vaccination schedule.

Dr. Andrew Wakefield's Persecution

His story created quite a stir, forcing his team to withdraw their findings. And all he found was that several children sent to his pediatric practice in England with extreme irritable bowel disorders and autistic traits had a strain of a measles virus used in MMR vaccinations.

Two other doctors had made similar observations prior to Wakefield's discovery. Wakefield never claimed that MMR shots definitely caused these children's problems or autism. But he did suggest further investigation should proceed into the vaccine/autism issue.

Both of the earlier physicians had discussed these findings among peers. But Wakefield published his findings in the Lancet, one of England's most prestigious medical journals. A hack freelance journalist was hired to smear Wakefield using Rupert Murdoch's Sunday Times as a platform. James Murdoch, Rupert Murdoch's son, contracted Brian Deer to print lies about Wakefield's discoveries and intentions, claiming Wakefield fabricated material for financial gain.

James Murdoch runs the paper in England and is on the GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) board of directors. Yep, GSK manufactures vaccines. The smear campaign carried over to the British Medical Journal (BMJ) where its editor Dr. Godlee accepted the baton to continue the smear relay , embarrassing the Lancet into dropping Wakefield's paper.

Fast forward to the USA more recently, and we find that a Virginia Medical School discovered the same viral strain of measles, the one used in MMR vaccinations, in children who had developed serious irritable bowel problems and were also exhibiting autistic traits.

The fact that two other doctors had similar findings only months prior to Wakefield's Lancet publication along with an independent USA team, who also found the MMR measles strain among disturbed children it had studied months after the Wakefield controversy, clearly indicates a huge cover up for the vaccine industry by the Times and BMJ.

Unfortunately, the smear worked. Dr. Wakefield lost his license to practice in England despite the protests of parents whose children he had treated. The squeaky wheels get greased; he who shouts loudest and longest wins the argument while sincere less demonstrable researchers without mainstream media support get crushed. As Bob Dylan once sang, "money doesn't talk; it swears".

Expect anything supporting vaccinations and debunking their actual reported dangers to be a pack of lies, regardless of where the information appears. The vaccine industry has the wherewithal to buy careerist liars to spread the lies, and it continues even when caught. Thus, widespread ignorant reverence of the vaccination sacred sacrament still lingers even as more begin to discover the dark side of vaccines.

Sources include the following:

http://www.safeminds.org/news/thorn...
http://childhealthsafety.wordpress....
http://www.naturalnews.com/032216_T...
http://adventuresinautism.blogspot....
http://www.naturalnews.com/031116_D...
http://www.naturalnews.com/031113_v...

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/033347_va...#ixzz1VJ8DMfne

Weirdly, they almost look like twins:

[onawah]

Former CDC Scientist Whose Studies Were Used to ‘Debunk’ Vaccine-Autism Link Will Plead Guilty
by Michael Nevradakis, Ph.D.
August 24, 2026
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/d...-plead-guilty/

(Podcast at the link. Hyperlinks in the article not embedded here.
It will be interesting to see if Offit is one of the conspirators who Thorsen will name. )



"Poul Thorsen, 65, is finalizing a plea deal with prosecutors relating to charges stemming from a 2011 federal indictment charging him with wire fraud and money laundering. Thorsen’s research was used to dismiss over 5,000 claims filed by the parents of children with autism who were injured by vaccines. An assistant U.S. district attorney confirmed that prosecutors are working with Thorsen on a plea deal, but declined to comment for The Defender on details of the deal.

A former Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) scientist who played a crucial role in research rebutting any link between vaccines and autism is expected to plead guilty next week to wire fraud and money laundering.

Poul Thorsen, 65, is finalizing a plea deal with prosecutors relating to charges stemming from a 2011 federal indictment, Nathan Kitchens, assistant U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia, told The Defender.

Thorsen, who began working for the CDC in the late 1990s, faces two counts of wire fraud and nine counts of money laundering related to over $1 million in CDC grant money. The funds were earmarked for autism and public health research, but Thorsen allegedly used them to buy a home, two cars and a motorcycle.

Kitchens declined to comment on whether Thorsen will plead guilty to all or some of the charges.

Thorsen has been held in federal custody without bail since his extradition from Germany to the U.S. in May. The case is being heard at a federal court in Georgia, where the CDC is headquartered.

Researcher James Grundvig, the parent of a child with autism who was vaccine-injured, called the expected guilty plea “a very big deal.”

Grundvig, who wrote “Master Manipulator: The Explosive True Story of Fraud, Embezzlement, and Government Betrayal at the CDC,” which focused on the Thorsen case, praised U.S. Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for extraditing Thorsen “in record speed.”

He said Thorsen likely understands that the FBI and U.S. Department of Justice have “all the goods” to prosecute him.

“I guess Thorsen’s realizing, since he’s in American jail already and has no chance for bail, he might as well make a plea deal,” Grundvig said.

Dr. Dave Weldon, a physician and Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives between 1994 and 2009 — and who President Donald Trump nominated to lead the CDC in late 2024 before retracting his nomination in March 2025 — welcomed the plea agreement but said it isn’t enough.

“It would be a miscarriage of justice if a plea deal failed to include a thorough investigation of allegations of scientific fraud,” Weldon said.

Danish independent vaccine safety researcher Vibeke Manniche, M.D., Ph.D., said some of the federal funds Thorsen is said to have misused may have been intended for vaccine-autism studies. Manniche said the guilty plea calls Thorsen’s research into question.

“An obvious question is whether he also has been cheating with data to achieve the results he sought,” Manniche said. “That we don’t know. A good rule in gold-standard science is replication, and it would be wise, for so many reasons, to replicate his work,” independently of the institutions Thorsen had been affiliated with.

Grundvig noted that the Thorsen indictment included unnamed co-conspirators, suggesting that the investigation may implicate more people — and also the controversial autism research that Thorsen helped publish in 2002 and 2003 that was cited as proof of no link between vaccines and autism.

“I think that’s going to be the second part of the story,” Grundvig said. “It could be an avalanche of bad news for both pharma and the CDC.”

Thorsen studies cited in dismissing over 5,000 vaccine injury claims

Despite questions around how those studies were conducted, the Madsen-Thorsen papers were used in 2011 to dismiss over 5,000 claims filed by the parents of autistic, vaccine-injured children. The claims were part of the Omnibus Autism Proceeding pending before the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

In “Master Manipulator,” Grundvig — whose son’s case was one of the claims dismissed as a result of Thorsen’s research — described Thorsen as “a world-class villain whose manipulation of health data gave CDC and big pharma what they wanted: a report clearing thimerosal of any possible role in the autism crisis.”

According to Weldon:

“The real crime is not absconding with research dollars, but unresolved allegations around his research which served as the basis for the CDC and the U.S. government dismissing vaccine injury claims by thousands of injured children. These actions set back vaccine safety research by more than two decades.”

Grundvig suggested the Thorsen investigation and his guilty plea may call into question the dismissal of the omnibus cases, as it would “then make all of those vaccine omnibus proceedings completely fraudulent because it was based on a fraud, and that should reopen the cases.”

Hooker, whose omnibus claim for his son was also dismissed, said Thorsen likely didn’t act alone in misusing federal money or misrepresenting vaccine-autism research — and that the role of some of his key collaborators should be examined.

“There should be a separate investigation against Dr. Diana Schendel, who was Thorsen’s direct grant supervisor and lover and approved all of his invoices for expenditures from his CDC grant money. Dr. Schendel undoubtedly knew of Thorsen’s activities but did not report them to the authorities and could have spent some of the stolen grant money as well,” Hooker said.

Schendel maintained an inappropriate romantic relationship with Thorsen and later accepted a position at Denmark’s Aarhus University to lead autism research there. She remains employed at Aarhus University — and at Drexel University — today.

Thorsen continued to live in Denmark for years after the 2011 U.S. indictment. He worked there as a gynecologist despite an extradition treaty between the two countries and an INTERPOL warrant for his arrest.

Hooker added:

“Other co-conspirators who knew of the inappropriate relationship between Thorsen and Schendel over the seven-year grant history at CDC include Coleen Boyle, Ph.D., former director of the National Center for Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities), and Dr. Marshalyn Yeargin-Allsop, former branch chief of the Developmental Disabilities Branch at the CDC.

“These individuals at a minimum should be brought in for questioning. Both have also been implicated in the MMR-autism fraud from the DeStefano et al. 2004 paper, where data showing a strong relationship between MMR timing and autism in Black boys was illegally destroyed.”

Thorsen’s vaccine-autism studies full of ‘irregularities’

When he first joined the CDC as a visiting scientist, Thorsen’s research focused on birth defects and developmental disabilities.

However, by the early 2000s, Thorsen shifted his focus to autism research. His work in this area left a strong imprint, fueling future narratives that autism isn’t linked to vaccines.

According to a 2017 report by the World Mercury Project — predecessor to Children’s Health Defense (CHD) — Thorsen’s influence on U.S. vaccine projects and policies “is extensive” because his studies were used to dismiss a possible link between vaccines and autism.

One of the most influential studies became known as the “Madsen study,” a population-based study of the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism.

Published in 2002 in The New England Journal of Medicine and co-authored by Thorsen, the Madsen study concluded that there is “strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism.”

However, according to the 2017 World Mercury Project report, the Madsen study was “flawed” from the outset because the researchers reviewed clinical records of only 40 of the 316 children who had autism in the study’s cohort.

A peer-reviewed analysis published last year cast further doubt on the study’s conclusions.

In 2003, Madsen and Thorsen co-authored another influential study, published in Pediatrics, the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics. The study did “not support a correlation between thimerosal-containing vaccines and the incidence of autism.”

Thimerosal is a mercury-based adjuvant used in some vaccines, which some scientists and advocates for people with autism have suggested may trigger autism.

Brian Hooker, Ph.D., CHD’s chief scientific officer, said there are “numerous data irregularities” in the Thorsen studies.

In their critique of the 2002 paper, Hooker and Karl Jablonowski, Ph.D., CHD senior research scientist, found significant errors in the paper. They concluded the study’s unadjusted results “do not support rejecting the causal link” between the MMR vaccine and autism.

In a critique of the 2003 Madsen-Thorsen study, Hooker and researcher Jeffrey Allen Trelka concluded that the study’s findings “may have been skewed by participant selection and changes in diagnostic groupings.”

Other critiques of the 2002 and 2003 studies raised concerns about ethical considerations. Both studies relied on Danish population data. According to the 2017 World Mercury Project report, the studies bypassed ethical reviews required for this category of research, as required by federal law.

When the CDC discovered Thorsen hadn’t obtained the required ethics approvals, the agency didn’t report the errors, and the studies weren’t retracted. Instead, CDC officials engaged in a cover-up, the 2017 report states.

“Given these irregularities, Thorsen should also be under investigation for data fraud as he clearly withheld data and could have altered data” from Danish official sources, Hooker told The Defender.

Manniche said that if it is proven Thorsen tampered with the data in his studies, it would be a “terrible tragedy,” because “parents were told that the MMR vaccine was safe and sound and that it couldn’t harm the child.”

As of July 31, there were 1,931 reports claiming onset of autism or autism spectrum disorder following MMR vaccination contained within the federally run Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).

Will Thorsen sing?

Grundvig suggested that, as part of his plea agreement with prosecutors, Thorsen may have an incentive to provide testimony or information targeting other CDC figures.

“Thorsen’s 65 years old, born in 1961 … does he want to die in an American jail?” Grundvig asked. “I don’t think so. So, I think he wants to make, and will make, a plea deal. The only way he’s going to make a plea deal is with someone like Kennedy and maybe others in the Department of Justice that look at a bigger case,” Grundvig said.

Grundvig suggested this “bigger case” may involve the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act or RICO Act.

“There’s a bigger fraud involved than just stealing money, and I think it goes back to the vaccines, it goes back to the studies that the CDC cooked up,” potentially implicating Schendel and Madsen.

“Will he be used as a star witness against the CDC old guard and all of the shenanigans that went on massaging of science, of science papers, influence on Pediatrics and other journals, in order to get all of this done back in the early 2000s in order to exonerate vaccines and erase the autism signal?” Grundvig asked.

Related articles in The Defender

Former CDC Autism Scientist Extradited to U.S. on Fraud, Money Laundering Charges
Fugitive Scientist Behind Vaccine and Autism Studies Arrested for Stealing $1 Million From CDC
Study Claiming No Link Between Aluminum in Vaccines and Autism Riddled with Flaws, Critics Say
‘Numbers Literally Don’t Add Up’: New Peer-Reviewed Analysis Casts Doubt on 2002 Study Claiming No Link Between MMR Vaccine and Autism
Breaking Up MMR Vaccine Will Benefit Kids — But It Could Be Years Before Single Shots Are Available "

[ThePythonicCow]

Someday there will be some healthy adults, who owe their health to the long, slow, difficult work that people like RFK Jr, researchers like Grundvig, and Avalon posters like onawah, have put into exposing this crime against humanity.

[onawah]

Thanks Paul! I wish I was also having some success getting across to forum members with the posts about what a mess China has become.
You are one of the very few who is paying attention to that, apparently, and I still wonder why on a conspiracy forum like Avalon, the truth on that subject is taking so long to be appreciated.
At the present rate it won't become sufficiently apparent until the 3 Gorges Dam goes bust, though that could be any day now, from the looks of things.
(And won't that be a catastrophic wakeup call... ...with global repercussions, I might add.
Which is exactly my point.)

Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)
Someday there will be some healthy adults, who owe their health to the long, slow, difficult work that people like RFK Jr, researchers like Grundvig, and Avalon posters like onawah, have put into exposing this crime against humanity.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by onawah (here)
Thanks Paul! I wish I was also having some success getting across to forum members with the posts about what a mess China has become.
You are one of the very few who is paying attention to that, apparently, and I still wonder why on a conspiracy forum like Avalon, the truth on that subject is taking so long to be appreciated.

Totally off-topic here, but just responding to your post!

My own go-to sources about what's really happening in China are

• Pepe Escobar
• Jeffrey Sachs
• Cyrus Janssen
• Alex Reporterfy, and
• Peter Alexander.

The China Show is unreliable Sinophobic propaganda. It just is. There's a lot to be found on the internet about The China Show's unwavering agenda.

The several threads on China that we have (some of which I tried to start myself) have all been propagandized, and so I no longer spend any time trying to contribute. There's no balanced discussion or fully accurate reporting, which I'd gently suggest is a loss to us all.

I'd VERY much like a high-quality thread on what's REALLY happening in China (whatever it may be!), as to understand this all properly is so extremely important nowadays.



And back to topic here, I sincerely appreciate and salute all the time and effort you spend reporting (accurately, faithfully and valuably!) on absolutely everything else.

[Tintin]

Posted by onawah (here)
I did a search and it turns out I have 3 pages of articles & videos I've posted about Offit, 52 in total....

Yes, and I've just picked up on this one too, here, post #552 re the execrable Offit

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
My own go-to sources about what's really happening in China are

I have never been to China, nor properly read, written or spoken a single word of Chinese ... so my take is a waste of our fine reader's pixels. I currently place more trust in "Lei's Real Talk" regarding matters Chinese.

I also notice that, once again, there is a deep division amongst us earthlings in viewpoints on a substantial topic ... and suspect that a few wealthy Yanks, Brits and Euros could better explain the origins of such divisions ... but I further suspect neither Bill and I expect any such explanations to be forthcoming from those "who know".

... very suspicious

[Isserley]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
My own go-to sources about what's really happening in China are

• Pepe Escobar
• Jeffrey Sachs
• Cyrus Janssen
• Alex Reporterfy, and
• Peter Alexander.

The China Show is unreliable Sinophobic propaganda. It just is. There's a lot to be found on the internet about The China Show's unwavering agenda.

I notice that the list of credible ones has changed/shrunk a bit over the years.

There is a lot to be found on the internet about above listed geopolitical experts. Overconfidence, reliance on flawed models and ideological bias are common causes of their forecasting errors which is also the reason why I stopped visiting threads like Ukraine/Russia & Gaza/Iran, because of constantly wrong predictions like this one for example here, which do nothing but spread fear even more (and this is just one out of many over the years).

Onawah I really appreciate your posts, even though I'm not the type to hit the "Thank you" button often, nor do I feel like commenting too much, but I'm lurking around here somewhere.

The only thing I don't like about The China Show is their overly sarcastic tone and mockery, but I believe the truth is somewhere close to what they portray.

Apologies for straying from the topic.

[onawah]

Thanks for checking in, Isserley.
I also don't try to keep up with the news concerning Ukraine/Russia & Gaza/Iran, etc. because there is so much disinfo and so much going on it takes too much time trying to sort through it all to find the truth.
While at the same time I wish the guys on the China Show were more serious, I also appreciate their entertaining approach to all matters concerning China because conditions there are so weird and dystopian that otherwise it would just become too distressing and depressing to watch.
Bill and I will just have to agree to disagree.
Paul and I will no doubt continue to agree about how helpful Lei's Talk and Lei's Looking Glass shows are, which by the way Bill, are pretty much in alignment with The China Show's take on many issues.
And there are other credible sources such as Reuters which report the same things as The China Show, and China Observer which no doubt Bill would also classify as disinfo, but which check out on various matters with those more credible sources.
The China Show guys have the advantage of private sources from within China which supply info that other sources don't have access to, since they have friends and relatives still living in China through their wives (they both married Chinese women).
And inasmuch as they both spent over a decade living in, working and travelling throughout China before things became too dystopian.
(Though the CCP censors so much that it's a wonder anything making China look bad ever gets out at all.)
The Western shills who get paid to make everything look good are fairly easy to discredit if anyone wants to take the time.
But since there is so little conversation about China on the forum, I don't take the time and energy necessary.
No doubt the truth will become clear to all in time.

Posted by Isserley (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
My own go-to sources about what's really happening in China are

• Pepe Escobar
• Jeffrey Sachs
• Cyrus Janssen
• Alex Reporterfy, and
• Peter Alexander.

The China Show is unreliable Sinophobic propaganda. It just is. There's a lot to be found on the internet about The China Show's unwavering agenda.

I notice that the list of credible ones has changed/shrunk a bit over the years.

There is a lot to be found on the internet about above listed geopolitical experts. Overconfidence, reliance on flawed models and ideological bias are common causes of their forecasting errors which is also the reason why I stopped visiting threads like Ukraine/Russia & Gaza/Iran, because of constantly wrong predictions like this one for example here, which do nothing but spread fear even more (and this is just one out of many over the years).

Onawah I really appreciate your posts, even though I'm not the type to hit the "Thank you" button often, nor do I feel like commenting too much, but I'm lurking around here somewhere.

The only thing I don't like about The China Show is their overly sarcastic tone and mockery, but I believe the truth is somewhere close to what they portray.

Apologies for straying from the topic.

[onawah]

Former CDC Scientist Accused of Stealing $1 Million in Grant Money Extradited Back to U.S.
by Atlanta News First
September 8, 2026
https://thevaccinereaction.org/2026/...edback-to-u-s/

"Former CDC scientist Poul Thorsen was brought back to the United States to face justice for what federal investigators say was a million-dollar fraud scheme—money that was meant to help children. The money was intended to study the relationship between vaccines and autism, it included cerebral palsy in infants, it included fetal alcohol syndrome. But instead federal officials allege Thorsen used a personal credit union account bearing the CDC’s name to funnel money to his pocket, then submitted fake invoices for research work."

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0M82qfYEePg