Why Would an Alien Craft Use Hex Bolts?

[Aleksandr]

Hi everyone,
There has been recent discussion around Joe Jordan’s work on abductions, and similar remarks from Tucker Carlson, suggesting that the UFO phenomenon may not fit the ordinary “visitors from another planet” story.

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/joe-jordan...nation-1820939

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=DfTU5LA_kw8

Here is a passage I came across in the notes of a little-known Russian design engineer and contactee from the late 1990s. She kept detailed records of her contacts and tried to interpret the phenomenon from a technical point of view rather than a religious or mystical one:

Not very long ago, I came across a letter from a woman somewhere in the press. She is absolutely convinced that UFOs exist, but that all of them are manufactured on Earth by ordinary people at secret factories. Where does such a strange conviction come from? Once, when she was just a little girl, she saw a 'saucer' hovering in the forest over a lake and managed to get so close to it that she could examine the hull. The hull was assembled with our earthly hex-head bolts. To her, the thought that super-advanced civilizations could use such a purely earthly anachronism as bolts seems far too incredible.
She is absolutely right. Nowhere in Cosmos would it ever cross anyone's mind to assemble the hulls of spacecraft with bolts. What she saw is indeed not a product of super-advanced civilizations.
But the funniest thing is that not a single earthly design bureau would ever risk assembling the hull of an aircraft—or any other vehicle, for that matter—with bolts. This was exactly what she, not being a specialist, did not know. The hull is a load-bearing structure, and assembling it with bolts means exposing the pilot to deadly danger, since during a hard landing, the bolts can be shorn off, and then the hull will collapse like a house of cards, snapping shut like a mousetrap on both the crew and the passengers. Here on Earth, we use welding in such cases, and if the parts cannot be welded, we use rivets which, when bucked, fill the entire hole, keeping them from being shorn off even during the hardest landing.
Perhaps we possess some other new technologies, but bolts... even for us, this is old hat from the century before last, since under vibrations, threaded connections happen to unscrew on their own. Assembling a bridge over a river with bolts is fine, but as for the body of an automobile—that is highly questionable. This was known even in pre-revolutionary Russia, which is why the hulls of marine vessels back then were already made with rivets (though today it is welding).
So, what did that woman actually see? A common imitation. Those bolts were never screwed in by anyone, and no one will ever unscrew them, because they are molded as a single whole with the hull—just like the nuts on the wheels of plastic toy cars. There might be a steering wheel inside, a tank, and headlights, all looking exactly like the real thing. But... it is a toy.

She also noted a related paradox regarding the choice of candidates for abductions:

For a long time now, all the ufologists on Earth are perplexed by why the aliens make such a strange choice of candidates, whom they 'took for a ride and returned.' People of science, people seriously studying the paranormal, and even simply people with a higher education—let alone two—are invited to ride on a flying saucer extremely rarely. On the other hand, people with below-average intelligence and children are the favorite passengers.
Everything is correct. Such passengers may be more or less observant, but they will easily swallow any nonsense about anything they are told. But just try explaining to a graduate of a physics and technology institute what kind of fuel a saucer runs on when it… has no engine at all, and other things in that same vein. That's why here, in the sky above us, UFOs are scurrying around, invitingly blinking their lights, flying yet unable to fly.

I translated her notes into English in full. You can read the complete text on archive.org

Elena Perepelkina
The Mystery of the Supreme Mind 2: Trojan Gifts for Free-Cheese Lovers
(Notes of a Contactee)

https://archive.org/details/elena-pe...-cheese-lovers

[Open Minded Dude]

Posted by Aleksandr (here)

She also noted a related paradox regarding the choice of candidates for abductions:

For a long time now, all the ufologists on Earth are perplexed by why the aliens make such a strange choice of candidates, whom they 'took for a ride and returned.' People of science, people seriously studying the paranormal, and even simply people with a higher education—let alone two—are invited to ride on a flying saucer extremely rarely. On the other hand, people with below-average intelligence and children are the favorite passengers.
Everything is correct. Such passengers may be more or less observant, but they will easily swallow any nonsense about anything they are told. But just try explaining to a graduate of a physics and technology institute what kind of fuel a saucer runs on when it… has no engine at all, and other things in that same vein. That's why here, in the sky above us, UFOs are scurrying around, invitingly blinking their lights, flying yet unable to fly.

This contradicts what John E. Mack found out. He says in his books and in interviews, if I remember correctly, that the abductees, also his clients or patients, were a mix of society from from 'all walks of life'. This includes high-brow intellectuals and scientists, doctors, engineers, etc. He also said that most of them were 'sane' from a psychological and clinical viewpoint.

Here's from the Google AI summary:

Overview of John E. Mack's Work

Background: Mack was a respected head of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and won a Pulitzer Prize for his biography of T.E. Lawrence, A Prince of Our Disorder, in 1976.

Investigation: Beginning around 1989, he investigated over 100 cases of individuals claiming alien encounters and used hypnotherapy and extensive interviews to study their accounts.
The Book: He published his findings in the 1994 bestselling book Abduction: Human Encounters with Aliens, which detailed common patterns among experiencers.

Key Aspects of Reported Abductions

Common Elements: Experiencers frequently reported paralysis by an energy or blue light, floating through solid walls into craft, and undergoing intense physical examinations or reproductive/hybridization procedures.

Psychological Evaluation: Mack found that the abductees were generally free of mental illness, delusions, or hallucinations, noting a striking consistency across independent accounts.

Spiritual/Transformational View: Rather than viewing the phenomenon purely through a nuts-and-bolts extraterrestrial lens, Mack interpreted it as a profound psychological and spiritual awakening that challenges human identity and our place in the universe.

[Aleksandr]

I honestly fail to see what 'spirituality' has to do with the mechanical engineering of a spacecraft. If all these high-brow scientists, doctors, and engineers John Mack interviewed were genuinely interacting with advanced physical technology, why did they all suddenly get so shy? Why didn't a single one of them think to ask the most basic, logical questions: What type of engine does this craft use? What kind of fuel or propulsion system manages to bend space-time? Instead of bringing back solid, verifiable data on advanced physics or alien chemistry, these brilliant minds brought back vague stories about 'reproductive procedures' and New Age spiritual awakenings. Why?
It throws them a bone of 'mystical revelation' so they don't notice they are being shown a technical illusion.

And by the way, regarding this whole hybridization narrative—we on Earth can't even successfully breed a horse with a zebra without running into genetic dead ends. Why don't these advanced alien geneticists show us a hybrid of a cat and a dog first, before trying to cross a human with an extraterrestrial? As it stands, they have absolutely nothing to show to humanity except for playing doctor.

Ufologists are scratching their heads in bewilderment, while physicists are racking their brains over the hyper-development of 'their' civilization. Meanwhile, a contactee, who was taken for a ride on this UFO, is certain that they quickly dashed to a neighboring galaxy and back in a couple of minutes. After all, that is exactly what they communicated to him!!! What’s more, via a telepathic method, no less. In unaccented Russian or English!

[Aleksandr]

And here is another curious case recorded by Russian ufologist Alexey Priyma, regarding anomalous phenomena in the USSR in the city of Taganrog in 1945. A curious detail: at that time, the concept of a "UFO" did not yet exist, which is why the protagonist of the story uses the word "frying pan" to describe the unidentified object.

Barefoot Pilot
In the summer of 1945, I. Chebotarev from the city of Taganrog, Rostov Region, was nine years old. On that memorable day he went fishing, hoping to catch some fish for dinner. The fish were biting eagerly, and before long the boy had nearly a full bucket.
This was on the shore of the Taganrog Bay of the Sea of Azov.
Just as he was about to head home, an enormous frying pan without a handle dropped from the sky. I. Chebotarev recalls:
“It hit the water so hard that spray shot up in all directions. I was soaked from head to foot; my clothes were dripping wet… The ‘frying pan’ was about five meters across. Its body had a metallic sheen. I don’t know why, but I wasn’t afraid.
When the water settled, the object lay quietly on a sandy shoal, barely covered by water, only a few meters from where I had been fishing.
I took a couple of steps forward and tried to reach it with my fishing rod, but couldn’t.
Then bubbles began to rise around the ‘frying pan.’ After that a ‘fellow’ climbed out of it — that’s what I called him at the time. He was wearing silver clothing, something like a coverall.
The ‘fellow’ jumped from the ‘frying pan’ into the water and walked across the shallows to the shore. Once on dry ground he stopped six or seven meters from me. His head was completely hidden under an opaque oval helmet: above his shoulders rose something like a jar made of dark tinted glass. In one hand he held a blue stone, and on a cord around his neck hung a small pouch.
He stood frozen on the sand — silent, motionless. I stood rooted to the spot as well, waiting for him to say something. Two minutes passed, then three, then four… The stranger kept silent. My patience ran out. I asked:
—‘Where are you from? The Moon?’
The answer did not come at once, but it did come. After a long pause the ‘fellow’ with the dark glass jar on his shoulders finally spoke — in clear Russian.
—‘No,’—he said.
—‘I am from another planet.’
—‘What is your planet called?’
My oddly dressed companion seemed not to hear the question. Instead of answering, he said — again after a long pause:
—‘Earth people have surprises waiting for them — ones they will be very glad of.’
Burning with curiosity, I asked:
—‘Please tell me about your planet.’
The ‘fellow’ ignored that remark as well. He pointed to the ‘frying pan’ and then offered:
—‘If you want, come into my ship. Soon you will be on my planet.’
His inviting gesture and offer did not appeal to me at all. Here, you understand, were nearly two dozen fat, sizeable fish waiting to be taken home. Mother would clean them and start frying them… And this character with a jar on his shoulders was inviting me to set off on an interplanetary journey at once. Who knew how long it would last or when I would get back. By then the fish might have spoiled and would have to be thrown away. Then I would have to catch new ones. And while we were traveling and while I was later catching more fish, Mother would be worn out with worry. She would sigh and look at the clock, wondering where I had gone.
No, that turn of events did not suit me.
—‘I don’t want to fly with you!’ —I said in a loud, even slightly defiant voice. And I explained:
—‘I have to go home. Mother is waiting for me. We are going to fry the fish. Here they are — see? — in the bucket. I just caught them.’
—‘A pity you don’t want to,’ —the ‘fellow’ muttered. With that he turned and walked unhurriedly back toward his ‘frying pan.’
At the moment he entered the water I noticed he was not wearing shoes. I remember that struck me. A ‘Martian,’ the captain of an interplanetary spaceship — and barefoot! His bare feet ended in large toes, exactly like ours.
A little short of his craft the ‘fellow’ paused.
—‘If you want,’ —he said, —‘you may tell anyone about our meeting. But remember — no one will believe you. Goodbye.’
The ‘fellow’ climbed onto the ‘frying pan’ and disappeared inside it. He must have entered through some hatch in the upper part, invisible to me.
The ‘frying pan’ moved. It drifted away from the shallow shoal and did not take off into the air, as I expected, but… sank. In other words, it behaved like a submarine plunging rapidly into the depths.
I picked up the bucket of fish and went home…”

You just can't help but ask: why are aliens being taught the Russian language, yet they aren't provided with shoes for interplanetary travel? Can you imagine an astronaut who, upon stepping out onto an unfamiliar planet, takes off their shoes but keeps their helmet on?

[Aleksandr]

I will allow myself to quote a bit from the book of design engineer Elena Perepelkina, The Mystery of the Supreme Mind 2, in which she comments on a case of a typical alien abduction. The link to the book is in the first post.

"The most disgusting example of fake alien visits came across my desk in the newspaper 'Oracle' No. 3 for 1998. Everything in this story is so typical and so indicative that I will provide the article from this newspaper by Vladimir Azhazha almost in its entirety. The comments in parentheses will be mine. The article concerns a 42-year-old woman, Tatyana Anatolyevna V. (T.A.V.—initials, hereinafter in the text). She has a husband and four children, but this does not prevent 'otherworldly' strangers from disrupting her peace.

...A blue light and the smell of ozone—that was what usually woke her up in the middle of the night. And this time, upon seeing two five-foot-tall 'persons,' she was not surprised: they had started coming to her a long time ago, ever since 1979. But these two had completely lifeless faces, and behind each one's left ear was a small box-antenna.

—'You will come with us. Do not fear, we will return you soon, no harm will be done,'—chimed monotonously inside her head.
Clearly, these were not the aliens themselves, but robots; arguing with them was usually useless. Although every now and then, some idiotic retort, such as:
—'And shouldn't I paint your back with jam too?'—would throw them off, and they would beat a retreat empty-handed.

(Do not let the box with an antenna throw you off. You too can attach a small box to your side with a knitting needle sticking out of it, but that will not make you a robot. A monotonous voice sounding inside one's head... even our science fiction writers haven't thought of that yet; it doesn't even cross their minds that a ROBOT could enter into a TELEPATHIC contact with a LIVING HUMAN!)

But this time, T.A.V., without entering into altercations, stepped into the circle of yellow light in the middle of the room. A door opened right in mid-air, revealing a corridor behind it…

(Typical light effects, and by the way, the door opened not into a spaceship, but into a friedmon. Yet it was a door that opened, not an airlock… can you imagine an alien spaceship with doors?)

In a large, bright room, they laid her onto a table surrounded by a multitude of devices; her legs and arms were secured with bracelets, and a helmet with a multitude of wires and tubes was placed on her head. A soft voice resounded inside her head:
—'Fear nothing, we are merely researching you for a close acquaintance with you Earthlings. There will be no pain.'
T.A.V. lost consciousness and regained consciousness only to find that... it would have been better if she hadn't! Right in front of her, she saw the terrifying, toad-like face of a green creature that was lying on top of her and attempting to commit a sexual act. She fell into a severe hysterical fit, screaming…

(Follow along with the quotation. She lost consciousness... And what else could she have possibly done so that her soul could leave the body and confer? She fell into a severe hysterical fit, screaming... But what about 'No harm will be done' and 'There will be no pain'? So much for their promises…)

T.A.V. regained consciousness again already inside a small room with ordinary furniture, on a sofa. Sitting nearby was a woman who looked like an ordinary woman from Earth, yet was unearthly beautiful. The woman explained that they, the robots, had mistakenly abducted her, T.A.V., while having a mission to deliver a woman with a psycho-emotional personality type like hers from this region. Which was exactly what they did. As for the 'toad'—he was a humanoid, in many ways resembling humans. The subject of their research was the sexual emotions of earthly women.

(The ordinary room with ordinary furniture is just precious. Check out the exhibition works of our furniture designers... And here, creatures passing themselves off as some extraterrestrial civilization possess ordinary Earthly furniture? Furniture is familiar to them, but sexual emotions are not. Is that so? Can't you feel how all of this is clumsily put together? Of course, furniture is easier to copy since they do not have, and never have had, designers of their own. They didn't even manufacture it. They simply plagiarized it from us. Meanwhile, the woman of 'unearthly beauty' is a fairly frequent character in their myth-making. Aside from a self-evident attractiveness to our men, these 'Aelitas' (a reference to the Martian princess from the 1923 sci-fi novel Aelita by Aleksey Tolstoy) possess no other weapon. And no trump cards either, since everything she communicated is not worth a broken penny. A fake from the first word to the last.)

—'We need your emotions,’—she explained.
—‘The latest research has shown that the most valuable energy comes from emotions linked to sexual experiences. This energy is easy to register and collect; you humans are capable of engaging in sex without any feelings at all. And love is so important…’

(It remains unclear whether 'without feelings' means when you fell into a severe hysterical fit, refusing to be raped?.. And is love when you get ****ed, not only without your consent being asked, but without them even introducing themselves? Here on Earth, trying to commit a sexual act with an unconscious woman is considered a perversion. How do T.A.V.’s ears even withstand such a load of baloney? T.A.V. apparently believed the 'unearthly beautiful woman' and even felt shame for humans who can engage in sex without feelings. Because feelings, you see, are so important that aliens came from who knows where just to harvest our sexual energy.)

And so, about two months later, T.A.V. saw a tall man sitting on a chair by her bed, wearing tight-fitting clothes that clung to his body, with a metallic helmet decorated with glittering gemstones on his head. His face was handsome, his body powerful and muscular, but, as she later saw, covered in short hairs, as if with fur. He spoke aloud in Russian, not telepathically, as the humanoids had done before. Then he pressed a button on a small box he was holding in his hands, and a door opened in the wall, revealing the familiar corridor behind it…

(This is already a more interesting scenario. An attractive man... an 'Aelita in reverse'—a male version of Aelita… a small box with a button... the absence of telepathic contact... body hair like fur... one can sense an extraordinary imagination on the part of these 'aliens'.)

The sex was no different from an ordinary earthly one. Full-fledged intimacy, a semblance of feeling, arose only the fourth time. When she felt pleasure, her partner strangely contorted and groaned:
—'Hands! Give me your hands! Quick!'
She didn't understand, didn't give him her hands, and an awkward situation ensued. He explained to her that as soon as she felt an orgasm approaching, she had to place her hands palm-up on the bed.
At the moment of the next pleasure, she did exactly that. And paid dearly. He pressed his palms against hers—and through her fingers, 'liquid fire' began to flow into her. She screamed in pain and shook her hands. From the 'fire' surging through all her veins, she began to contort.

(This is difficult to comment on. There is not enough information. Perhaps this 'Aelita-Man' wanted to show off, and so he shared a 'divine spark.' Truth be told, the emotional world of entities is poorer than ours, and how love plays out for them, I do not know. Nothing prevents them from mistaking... short circuits for feelings.)

A woman of unearthly beauty, already familiar to her, entered the room and sprayed something into her face. T.A.V. went limp, collapsed to the floor, and slowly losing consciousness, she heard:
—'What do you think you are doing! This is a subordinate creature! Your energy could have killed her. You could have ruined many years of our labor. They live for such a short time…'

(A blatant, hundred-percent theater. Can you imagine an enraged Frenchwoman who angrily scolds an Italian... in Russian? I certainly cannot! In moments like that, an angry person either uses their native language, or, if they are fluent, the language of the person they are reprimanding. But absolutely not a third language! This is a clear play to the audience. And why? Because neither he nor she knows any language other than Russian. Our language is native to them too. By the way, do you now understand why this 'Aelita-Man' did not use a telepathic connection? Simply because, according to the script, T.A.V. was supposed to AS IF overhear the 'aliens' discussing her and humanity.)

But the 'green stranger,' the one resembling a toad, did not forget her either. Once, he appeared to T.A.V. right at her home, paralyzed her with something resembling a syringe, and lay on top of her. After the rape, the 'green' one stood up, hissed something, and disappeared. Soon after, she felt that she was pregnant. Naturally, she was in shock. But one day she woke up. Again, there was the blue light, and at her bedside stood that very same woman and two others. The woman said that the rape and pregnancy had been 'unplanned,' and that they had come to liquidate the consequences. Using a tube-like device, they performed something akin to an abortion on T.A.V. The operation was painless and virtually bloodless.

(This, excuse me, is an absolute circus. First of all, everything was planned. Secondly, feeling pregnant and actually being pregnant are not the same thing. It remains unclear whether a pregnancy actually took place or if it was merely a simulated pregnancy. And although I have come across claims in the press many times that aliens are cross-fertile with us, I dare to assure you that this is not the case. Even mammalian species that are closely related are not cross-fertile. If it were possible, bestiality would have yielded such hybrids that it wouldn't even dream of in a nightmare. But no. This does not happen. Is it possible to get pregnant from an entity? From the entity itself—no, but with the help of the fraud inherent to entities—quite possibly. But from an extraterrestrial, via ORDINARY sex—most certainly not! The story is shock content no matter how you look at it: they were interested in energy—it resulted in a pregnancy; they were interested in emotions—it resulted in an abortion. And who is the Supreme Mind here? And one question for our dear psychics. Right now, they are vehemently campaigning to ban abortions, claiming that something 'subtle-energetic' remains in the uterus, which badly affects both sexual partners, and that in the next world, abortions are punishable. So, it turns out: what is forbidden to us is permitted to the rapists 'from over there'?)

And yet, she experienced a fleeting but wondrous moment of 'unearthly love.'
(It's enough to move one to tears!)"

It is blindingly obvious that these "aliens" made a major tactical error. Instead of abducting an ordinary woman living in the USSR, they should have targeted two American "alphysicists" from the Montauk Project—Duncan Cameron and Al Bielek. Why? Because those two were apparently tearing open time tunnels back in the 1980s using pure sexual energy. Don't believe me? I quote:

"Initially… a living human was necessary who would create passages in time and keep them open by means of CONCENTRATION OF THOUGHT."

More?

"Somehow Duncan's conscious thinking (a key participant in the experiment who created passages 'in time' with his thought) was suppressed by means of SEXUAL arousal."

(Well, how on earth can a puncture in time be achieved without engaging sexuality? The connection between time, sexuality, and concentration of thought is such a rare gem of anti-physics…)

More?

"Now he (Bielek) was brought in, hoping to obtain from him a METAPHYSICAL interpretation of what happens to people when they are exposed to the radiation. Bielek was not only a highly qualified engineer, but he also possessed a high PSYCHIC sensitivity, as well as remarkable knowledge in the ESOTERIC field."

(It’s a pity they didn't invite black and white magic sorcerers; then the electrical equipment wouldn't have been needed at all.)

...These are the "time tunnels" that theoretical physicists had dreamed up. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that there were arrows and even signs in those tunnels, just like in a subway system, written in unaccented English, showing where to turn and which year was where. The American "alphysicists" didn't even realize that they were dealing with typical paranormality, and not with the laws of physics at all.

But a time corridor where one can walk to any year on foot without a problem is not the strangest thing they had there. It is far more strange that these tunnels were filled with air, and had a humidity and temperature that were optimal for the human organism; consequently, someone was ventilating, heating, and humidifying them… Yet all these "trifles" for some reason did not surprise any of the experiment's participants.

...As long as we needed scary horned devils, many people saw them; now, the "demand" is for "entities," extraterrestrials, and UFOs.

Elena Perepelkina in her book draws attention to the fact that most of the contacts with "aliens and UFOs" have all the signs of ordinary paranormality that requires serious scientific and technical study, rather than a psychological and spiritual awakening and a Spiritual/Transformational View.

[Open Minded Dude]

Posted by Aleksandr (here)
I honestly fail to see what 'spirituality' has to do with the mechanical engineering of a spacecraft. If all these high-brow scientists, doctors, and engineers John Mack interviewed were genuinely interacting with advanced physical technology, why did they all suddenly get so shy? Why didn't a single one of them think to ask the most basic, logical questions: What type of engine does this craft use? What kind of fuel or propulsion system manages to bend space-time? Instead of bringing back solid, verifiable data on advanced physics or alien chemistry, these brilliant minds brought back vague stories about 'reproductive procedures' and New Age spiritual awakenings. Why?
It throws them a bone of 'mystical revelation' so they don't notice they are being shown a technical illusion.

I think (and from what I've read so far) the main reason for all (or most) of these people (high-brow or not) to keep quiet is social stigma and traumatization.
They still want to be functioning members of their societies (countries). Most have also a problem with their belief systems they had (some religious, some 'scientific') and also suffer from cognitive dissonance then. Many want to deny it and not 'come out' officially although deep inside they know that there is 'some' truth to their experiences (it is not only abductions but other encounters and 'visits' too). Due to the trauma their main interest is not getting technology or whatever, although I've read accounts where some people indeed wonder about their abilities. Their main issue is getting over their "PTSD", some even want to forget it entirely. Some want to integrate it into their daily life but struggle to do so.

A similar picture about abductees and contactees you can get from Ardy Sixkiller Clarke who investigated accounts from Native American people, and they are a lot. Most of these people also did not want to talk about it in the firstplace and had to be convinced to tell their experiences. All of these accounts are thus anonymous where their names and addresses have been changed.

I've read four of her books and they are fascinating. Here is a post I made about it:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1697420

Here is a part of this long post quoted:

Ms Ardy Sixkiller Clarke now has not one but four of these books out. And one of them is also about Mesoamerica where she travelled a route through 4 countries always with a tour guide and native (Belize, Honduras, Guatemala, and Mexico).

Many of the indigenous tribal people in Mesoamerica see themselves still as 'Maya', so she calls them this way in the books. In North America she uses the term American Indians instead of Native Americans, also in self-reference as a half-Cherokee woman. She also claims that many of them call themselves this way (although the tribal name is the first-choice label for them of course). In her work she also differentiates between on- and off-reservation ('reservation vs. 'urban') Native Americans. Therefore each group a single book is dedicated to.

Note that she is not one of the regression therapists. She just interviews people who remember all or most of this stuff without hypnosis.

Here is the list in chronological order from goodreads:

Encounters with Star People: Untold Stories of American Indians
Sky People: Untold Stories of Alien Encounters in Mesoamerica
More Encounters with Star People: Urban American Indians Tell Their Stories
Space Age Indians: Their Encounters with the Blue Men, Reptilians, and Other Star People

https://www.goodreads.com/author/sho...xkiller_Clarke

Quote Dr Clarke, Professor Emeritus at Montana State University, has dedicated her life & career to working with indigenous populations. She's the author of several children's books & the bestselling 'Sisters in the Blood'. Retired from academia, she continues to work as a consultant to indigenous communities worldwide. See her www.sixkiller.com website.
Regarding her website mentioned: Not sure if she is still active or even alive since she has not yet updated her page with her latest and fourth book on the topic, anyway here it is:

http://www.sixkiller.com/

Quote ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Dr. Ardy Sixkiller Clarke brings to the field of ufology degrees in history, English, psychology, and educational leadership and a background as a teacher, university professor, junior college and university administrator, licensed therapist and psychologist, and social science researcher. As a Professor Emeritus at Montana State University and former Director of the Center for Bilingual/Multicultural Education, Dr. Clarke, who is Cherokee/Choctaw, has worked with indigenous people for most of her career. Her first book in the field of ufology was the best-seller Encounters With Star People: Untold Stories of American Indians. She is also the author of twelve children's' books and the best-selling academic text: Sisters in the Blood: The Education of Women in Native America. She lives in the middle of the Rocky Mountains in Big Sky Montana.
As of now, I have finished two of her books ('Sky People', 'Urban American Indians') and am reading the third book ('Space Age Indians') currently half-way through. They are all page-turners! Unfortunately the very first book on reservation dwellers ('Star People') is not available as ebook (I have a Kindle and Tolino) and also out of print with a high price to purchase, but her other three books are easy to get as paperback and ebook.

So... what's my take on it?

In short:

My mind is blown and I recommend all of her books - even those (parts) not yet read.

Long version:

Even though before I have read, seen and heard a lot about 'encounters', abductions, sightings, telepathic/mind contact/influence, etc., and even had one encounter myself (but only on the astral plane) I am still impressed by the sheer number and content of the reports she has gathered over the many years. Actually, so she says, it is far over 1000 and she would have even much more with all of the non-Native-Americans who contacted her (because they read her work) also counted in.

I've also recently (and finally!) read Whitley Strieber's 'classic' Communion and started Dr. John Mack's Abduction, a lengthy but worthwhile exposé from a psychologist and scientist. Therefore I am kind of well-read on the topic (including other UFO literature and some Avalon forum threads of course) - and yet I am still totally mesmerized by her books. It's more than a topping on the cake. For me it is the 'go-to' or 'must-have' for a collection of ET encounter cases of all kinds.

So there must indeed be a special and long-standing connection between 'indigenous' people of the Americas (North and South) and 'ET/aliens', reaching back to pre-historic times perhaps. They also have lots of legends which are touched upon sometimes in the books, but the chapters are all about recent and/or childhood encounters of the indigenous contactees, as remembered.

You can further group these experiences into all kinds of categories. Some are classical abductions, some are encounters and even regular (!) visits, just like the ETs are part of the larger 'family'. Some also involve abducted animals (believe it or not: even a crocodile is witnessed to be taken on board a UFO from a lake with a 'tractor beam' and then later even brought back). In South America some women were made pregnant (not in the North though, interestingly) and then it was undone (the babies taken away again on a subsequent abduction months later).

All are the kinds of 'stories' we know already in different forms and shapes from other sources, although some are very special. Moreover here it comes with a certain quality of 'understanding' and 'history' and with a common thread that is seemingly not as pertinent to non-indigenous people(s) as to Native Americans and 'Maya' people(s).

And then there is the vast quantity of reports. Regarding quality and morals... well, you also have it all: The good, the bad and the ugly.

There is the entire range from hostile abductions or other kinds of 'force' over neutral encounters to very friendly (repeated) encounters and even healing or 'improvement' events for the contactees.

What is very common: Communication is always reported as instantly telepathic and no 'ET' speaks like we do to the contactees despite being otherwise physically present. Yet almost all encounters seem physical and leave physical imprints on bodies sometimes.

What I can conclude from what I've read so far regarding the different species and races is that we have a clear distinction:

The "good" ones really seem to be - or to be seen as - the 'Ancestors' who came here, lived here a while in very ancient times and 'seeded' this planet with the human species (or the indigenous races at least). They often are described as looking similar to the people who meet them (American Indians, Maya people). Of course, they might change appearances and we never really know how they look like in actuality.

Then there are the intruder races (Greys, Mantis/Bugs, Reptiles) who seemingly came at a later point in time, and they are oftentimes seen as more negative and the encounters are also this way (with a few exceptions though). Some in-between humanoid looking aliens are also a mixed bag of good and bad encounters.
The reptilians (as the fourth book shows) are the worst; so I guess David Icke is right after all?

Surprisingly, and new to me, there is a species of humanoid 'Blue Men' dealt with in the latest book. These beings are very benign and even saved and healed some of the American Indians, e.g. some Native Americans from combat situations fighting in Iraq or in Viet Nam. And it is not only one incidence but a few more, hence it is getting corroborated several times. The 'Blues' have a blue aura and are quite muscular and 'good-looking', they are only males, although again, we can't be sure how they really look. Maybe they are energy beings just appearing this way to humans.

[Aleksandr]

However, since you brought up Dr. Ardy Sixkiller Clarke's books and that remarkable case, I would sincerely love to know:

Did the crocodile suffer from PTSD after being abducted by the UFO?

Did the aliens communicate with the crocodile telepathically?

Did the crocodile get pregnant after the abduction, and did they successfully breed a hybrid of a crocodile and an extraterrestrial?

How exactly did the crocodile's level of "spirituality" change after the contact?

If these aliens are truly a part of the Native American family, why don't they share their advanced extraterrestrial technologies with their relatives, instead of leaving indigenous nations to use the primitive, lagging technologies of the USA?

What exactly is a "blue aura," and in what physical units is it measured? In volts, amperes, or teslas?

Aliens changing their shape? Does that mean that in the Middle Ages, vampires, werewolves, and mermaids were actually aliens too?

And the most important question: Didn't the aliens violate the rights of the indigenous Maya population by abducting them from Earth in their entirety?

[Ernie Nemeth]

I don't know about hex bolts, seems sort of universal to me.

But there had better be no slotted screws.

[Valknut3301]

Posted by Aleksandr (here)
Hi everyone,
There has been recent discussion around Joe Jordan’s work on abductions, and similar remarks from Tucker Carlson, suggesting that the UFO phenomenon may not fit the ordinary “visitors from another planet” story.

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/joe-jordan...nation-1820939

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=DfTU5LA_kw8

Here is a passage I came across in the notes of a little-known Russian design engineer and contactee from the late 1990s. She kept detailed records of her contacts and tried to interpret the phenomenon from a technical point of view rather than a religious or mystical one:

Not very long ago, I came across a letter from a woman somewhere in the press. She is absolutely convinced that UFOs exist, but that all of them are manufactured on Earth by ordinary people at secret factories. Where does such a strange conviction come from? Once, when she was just a little girl, she saw a 'saucer' hovering in the forest over a lake and managed to get so close to it that she could examine the hull. The hull was assembled with our earthly hex-head bolts. To her, the thought that super-advanced civilizations could use such a purely earthly anachronism as bolts seems far too incredible.
She is absolutely right. Nowhere in Cosmos would it ever cross anyone's mind to assemble the hulls of spacecraft with bolts. What she saw is indeed not a product of super-advanced civilizations.
But the funniest thing is that not a single earthly design bureau would ever risk assembling the hull of an aircraft—or any other vehicle, for that matter—with bolts. This was exactly what she, not being a specialist, did not know. The hull is a load-bearing structure, and assembling it with bolts means exposing the pilot to deadly danger, since during a hard landing, the bolts can be shorn off, and then the hull will collapse like a house of cards, snapping shut like a mousetrap on both the crew and the passengers. Here on Earth, we use welding in such cases, and if the parts cannot be welded, we use rivets which, when bucked, fill the entire hole, keeping them from being shorn off even during the hardest landing.
Perhaps we possess some other new technologies, but bolts... even for us, this is old hat from the century before last, since under vibrations, threaded connections happen to unscrew on their own. Assembling a bridge over a river with bolts is fine, but as for the body of an automobile—that is highly questionable. This was known even in pre-revolutionary Russia, which is why the hulls of marine vessels back then were already made with rivets (though today it is welding).
So, what did that woman actually see? A common imitation. Those bolts were never screwed in by anyone, and no one will ever unscrew them, because they are molded as a single whole with the hull—just like the nuts on the wheels of plastic toy cars. There might be a steering wheel inside, a tank, and headlights, all looking exactly like the real thing. But... it is a toy.

She also noted a related paradox regarding the choice of candidates for abductions:

For a long time now, all the ufologists on Earth are perplexed by why the aliens make such a strange choice of candidates, whom they 'took for a ride and returned.' People of science, people seriously studying the paranormal, and even simply people with a higher education—let alone two—are invited to ride on a flying saucer extremely rarely. On the other hand, people with below-average intelligence and children are the favorite passengers.
Everything is correct. Such passengers may be more or less observant, but they will easily swallow any nonsense about anything they are told. But just try explaining to a graduate of a physics and technology institute what kind of fuel a saucer runs on when it… has no engine at all, and other things in that same vein. That's why here, in the sky above us, UFOs are scurrying around, invitingly blinking their lights, flying yet unable to fly.

I translated her notes into English in full. You can read the complete text on archive.org

https://archive.org/details/elena-pe...-cheese-lovers

I haven't watched the video, but I did read the comments by the ' little-known Russian design engineer and contactee from the late 1990s' and I'm thoroughly perplexed by the entire statement.

First of all the title of this thread bugs me. Why would an alien craft use hex bolts? It's just as reasonable to ask why wouldn't aliens use hex bolts. To me it's a sign of humans thinking we are alone in our understanding of engineering and technology. Perhaps a hex bolt is a universal design that works, regardless of what planet you come from. The hexagram is a good shape for such things, why would we be the only ones to think of it. I try and avoid such assumptions in all cases, one way or the other. The statement that 'Nowhere in Cosmos would it ever cross anyone's mind to assemble the hulls of spacecraft with bolts.' troubles me. We thought of it, didn't we? and we live in the cosmos, don't we?

As to the woman's statements about hex bolts on a UFO, it seems contradictory to say that we know hex bolts wouldn't work on a fuselage therefore we must have built it. If we built it, wouldn't we understand the danger of using hex bolts? How stupid were the engineers who supposedly built this thing? And if they intended it to be mistaken for an alien craft, you'd think they would avoid buying their supplies from Home Depot. If it is alien, maybe the bolts are purely aesthetic, or serve some purpose we can't even imagine. Are they even hex bolts at all, or was she mistaking something she couldn't understand for hex bolts? Maybe her brain was so addled by the experience she hallucinated seeing hex bolts where there was something else just so she wouldn't go mad from seeing things that went beyond her ability to comprehend.

Or maybe the aliens shop at Home Depot too.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Valknut3301 (here)
If it is alien, maybe the bolts are purely aesthetic, or serve some purpose we can't even imagine.

Maybe the aliens are clever enough to adorn their highly advanced craft with what look like hex bolts so that they appear like poorly engineered human copies.

[Aleksandr]

Great! Soon Elon Musk will finish building his Starship. All he has left to do is decorate the hull with an ornament of hex bolts and activate the Blue Aura Mode. Very soon, we too will be able to travel to other planets, on a return visit, so to speak. And the first thing we will do is fly to Mars to harvest Martian sexual energy and perform Martian crocodile abductions. We will need all of this for subsequent experiments in Philadelphia. Who knows, maybe it is exactly on these resources that the TR-3B ASTRA engine works, and not on a mercury anti-gravity drive at all.

Now, let's look at a dialogue from Elena Perepelkina's book with an alien research chemist with whom she claimed to have contacted. Please note that he is completely uninterested in auras, cross-breeding, or the sexual emotions of Earthlings.

I will attempt, as close to the original text as possible, to retell a conversation with one of the chemists of Cosmos; in my view, the conversation was quite interesting.

Me: — 'And what does the nucleus consist of?'
He: — 'And what do you call the nucleus?'
Me: — 'Well, it's a microscopic bit of matter around which electrons revolve.'
He: (with astonishment): — 'Revolve? Then what do you call an electron?'
Me: — 'The smallest negatively charged particle.'
He: (categorically): — 'They do not revolve!'

Later I found out that we, as always, had swapped out true knowledge for a theory on the structure of the atom. No one on Earth has actually discerned a single atom yet, but in school they drilled it into us that it looks this way and only this way, as Bohr suggested in his theory.

Me: — 'Then what does the atom consist of?'
He: — 'Of... itself.'

I remained silent for a while, awaiting a continuation, and, having received none, decided to approach the same question from another side:

— 'We believe that there are positive and negative spins; perhaps this will help you somehow reconcile our knowledge and explain at least something.'

— 'Hardly. No matter how much I have read the definition lodged in your head, I still have not understood what that spin is, and what it is needed for.'

I decided to start with something completely ordinary, familiar, elementary:

— 'And does your water consist of two atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen, or not?'

He clearly cheered up:
— 'Here, I completely agree. Two atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen. Just like that.'

And he quickly drew a spatial structure in the form of a slightly flattened, transparent cube. I was a bit taken aback.

— 'And where are the atoms here?'

— 'The sticks,' —he replied in such a tone, as if no other options could even exist.

I was astonished even more, since there were far more than three 'sticks' in the drawing, and they were all identical.

— 'What is this? A crystal lattice or something?' (I suspected ice.)
— 'Not quite. This is organic matter.'
— 'The organic matter of water???'
— 'Uh-huh!' —he said, utterly crushed, apparently realizing that I simply wasn't 'catching on'.

No further questions from me followed, since the organic matter of water turned out to be a dead end for my consciousness, like hot ice or solid steam. But the fact that electrons, contrary to Bohr's theory, do not revolve... I am afraid that for our scientists this is no less of a dead end. It is just so convenient for us to believe they revolve… But if they do not revolve, then what do we generally know about matter?

[Aleksandr]

I haven't watched the video, but I did read the comments by the ' little-known Russian design engineer and contactee from the late 1990s' and I'm thoroughly perplexed by the entire statement.

First of all the title of this thread bugs me. Why would an alien craft use hex bolts? It's just as reasonable to ask why wouldn't aliens use hex bolts. To me it's a sign of humans thinking we are alone in our understanding of engineering and technology. Perhaps a hex bolt is a universal design that works, regardless of what planet you come from. The hexagram is a good shape for such things, why would we be the only ones to think of it. I try and avoid such assumptions in all cases, one way or the other. The statement that 'Nowhere in Cosmos would it ever cross anyone's mind to assemble the hulls of spacecraft with bolts.' troubles me. We thought of it, didn't we? and we live in the cosmos, don't we?

As to the woman's statements about hex bolts on a UFO, it seems contradictory to say that we know hex bolts wouldn't work on a fuselage therefore we must have built it. If we built it, wouldn't we understand the danger of using hex bolts? How stupid were the engineers who supposedly built this thing? And if they intended it to be mistaken for an alien craft, you'd think they would avoid buying their supplies from Home Depot. If it is alien, maybe the bolts are purely aesthetic, or serve some purpose we can't even imagine. Are they even hex bolts at all, or was she mistaking something she couldn't understand for hex bolts? Maybe her brain was so addled by the experience she hallucinated seeing hex bolts where there was something else just so she wouldn't go mad from seeing things that went beyond her ability to comprehend.

Or maybe the aliens shop at Home Depot too.

It seems you completely misunderstood Elena Perepelkina's core thesis. All these technical anomalies on UFOs—like hex bolts or ventilation systems in time tunnels—do not prove that aliens are stupid, nor do they prove that human engineers are incompetent. They prove something else entirely: we are dealing not with extraterrestrials, but with standard terrestrial paranormality. This phenomenon is on the exact same level as poltergeists, Bigfoot, shadow people, and plasmoids. Just as people in the Middle Ages dealt with werewolves, mermaids, and goblins, modern humans deal with 'aliens' and 'spacecraft.' Paranormality has its own kind of technical progress. It mimics the historical context and the current technological level of the human era. In the Middle Ages, the phenomenon manifested as magic, demons, and mythical creatures. Today, in the space age, it adapts and manifests as spaceships, high-tech entities, and nuts-and-bolts hardware to match our current expectations. The phenomenon creates a time-physical 'theatrical circus.' It doesn't extract images from our deep subconscious; instead, it directly pilfers and copies them from our immediate surroundings.

[Irminsül]

Hello there. Your point of view, Aleksandr, at least in what you're expressing here, is the same one Jacques Vallée presented in his book "Passport to Magonia." And it could be valid. But it could just as easily not be. At the end of the day, these are all conjectures or theories, and each person chooses to stick with the one that makes the most sense to them. What you're presenting is a view that can have many other explanations. Why can you say that Bigfoot, elves, or poltergeists (etc.) are all, beyond any doubt, terrestrial phenomena??? Do these beings carry an ID card or something? How can anyone know whether these manifestations or entities originate from here or from somewhere else? Lumping everything into the same bag and saying it's all the same thing is a claim based on absolutely nothing. Who said that faerie beings, demons, and extraterrestrials are the same phenomenon, metamorphosing however it pleases?


As you surely know, in 99% of the cases where these phenomena manifest, they leave no material evidence. Or if they do, it's never useful for determining anything: a mark on the skin, landing traces, or elevated residual radiation is all that remains. And that obviously isn't enough, nor can it determine whether those beings were time travelers, visitors from another dimension, or descendants of survivors of the civilization of Atlantis. In most situations, what we do have in abundance is witness information and their experience. Obviously, that's where analyzing comes into play whether the person is credible, whether they have hidden motives, whether part of their story can be corroborated, and so on. And turning to the field of ufology, in thousands of cases that appear to be truthful, the crew members of the craft have said they came from this or that point in the cosmos. One can choose whether or not to believe them. But at least there you have a clear answer.

[Aleksandr]

Oh, I'm very, very sorry! I completely forgot that in her book, Elena Perepelkina dedicated a lot of space to Spirituality and Transformation View. Yes, that very same spirituality transmitted via blue auras and sex. To correct this injustice and to ensure that everyone here can experience a True Spiritual Awakening, I will once again take the liberty of quoting from her book, The Mystery of the Supreme Mind 2- Trojan Gifts for Free-Cheese Lovers.

By the way, there are medical studies that are somehow completely bypassed by the creators of the theory about the 'default spirituality' of the soul.
When there is a severe lack of iodine in the body of a pregnant woman, she gives birth to a cretin. And with a massive iodine deficiency, the newborn's cretinism scales up to absolute idiocy. Have you ever crossed paths with a highly spiritual cretin or idiot? The soul they receive is no better and no worse than what other infants get, but they have a colossal hurdle with spirituality. It is considered a triumph when they can be taught the basics of self-care. Productive intellectual activity is completely out of the window. And the reason lies in a banal shortage of iodine during the phase of brain formation. And if you think that there are initially defective souls for whom defective bodies are required, you are deeply mistaken.
In one of the countries, I think it was Sweden, they eradicated iodine deficiency lock, stock, and barrel by outlawing the sale of 'non-iodized salt', and today they do not have a single institution for mentally underdeveloped children. In our country, however, the birth of such children is frequently blamed on 'conceiving while drunk'. But such children are born even to teetotaling families. And in a country that has stamped out iodine deficiency, there are surely 'drunken conceptions' as well, but this does not spark mental pathologies in children.
And one more fact that flatly contradicts the belief in the 'default spirituality' of the soul. Remember Kipling and his Mowgli? Of course, that is a fairy tale, but not entirely, since quite a few cases are known where a human hatchling grew up inside a wolf pack. But the fictional Mowgli is flawless in a sense, whereas the actual 'Mowglis' were down on their luck. And not a single true, thoroughbred wolf came out of them, nor did any of them later become a more or less civilized human, despite all the sweat of educators. The result was something rather pathetic in terms of mental faculties. The soul in this case clearly left them high and dry and did not share even a crumb of spirituality with the wretched children.
And do you remember the quote from the 'President of the Institute of Quantum Genetics' cited at the very beginning of this book, about the crucial importance of the connection between cells and the Supreme Mind? Back then, my jaw hit the floor. With such a blind faith in a Supreme Mind, who, at the very least, must possess intelligence, there is simply no way to explain a case like this, for example.
When scientists attempted to find out which reflexes in monkeys are conditioned (that is, acquired, observed from parents) and which are unconditioned (that is, given from birth, independent of upbringing), they set up an experiment. They took 100 newborn infant monkeys away from their mothers and split them into two groups. The nutrition and medical care of both groups were at a very high level, but, for the purity of the experiment, these babies could only contact one another. They had no communication with humans, adult monkeys, or anyone they could choose as a baseline for behavior. The first group had no mother at all, neither a real nor a surrogate one; the babies were left to grow at God’s random discretion. God in this case can be considered the Supreme Mind. In the second group, instead of a mother, there was a cloth toy, from whose breast one could suck milk if desired (there were bottles installed). The obtained result stunned the scientists. Every single baby from the first group turned out to be insane by the time of puberty. They manifested no behavioral instincts or reflexes of even minimal complexity. Even the instinct of procreation, always categorized among the most powerful, was completely absent in them. Nothing resembling a pack hierarchy, social life, collective interests, communication, mutual aid, or feelings toward one another emerged in them. The monkeys frequently bit themselves until they bled, oblivious to the pain, and did not react to external stimuli in any way. To sit, rocking melancholically and staring blankly at the wall, was their usual favorite state. In short, typical madness. In the second group, 48 (out of 50) monkeys were exactly the same. But two manifested an interest in mating; however, even they refused to have anything to do with their own child.
The Supreme Mind somehow fails to work without a mom and a dad. Don’t you find? And how catastrophically he fails to work! I am afraid that culturing a human embryo in a test tube will never pan out, no matter what Supreme Mind you surround this test tube with. But one only needs to plant a fertilized egg into any kind of a mother, and she—without any Supreme Mind, solely on her bio-informatics—will grow the fetus and spark his life. And she will teach him everything the baby can master. This is my stance on that idiotic phrase: 'God sent a baby'. I’d like to see how God would pull that off himself if the mom and dad didn't take care of the baby themselves.

[Aleksandr]

Posted by Irminsül (here)
Hello there. Your point of view, Aleksandr, at least in what you're expressing here, is the same one Jacques Vallée presented in his book "Passport to Magonia." And it could be valid. But it could just as easily not be. At the end of the day, these are all conjectures or theories, and each person chooses to stick with the one that makes the most sense to them. What you're presenting is a view that can have many other explanations. Why can you say that Bigfoot, elves, or poltergeists (etc.) are all, beyond any doubt, terrestrial phenomena??? Do these beings carry an ID card or something? How can anyone know whether these manifestations or entities originate from here or from somewhere else? Lumping everything into the same bag and saying it's all the same thing is a claim based on absolutely nothing. Who said that faerie beings, demons, and extraterrestrials are the same phenomenon, metamorphosing however it pleases?


As you surely know, in 99% of the cases where these phenomena manifest, they leave no material evidence. Or if they do, it's never useful for determining anything: a mark on the skin, landing traces, or elevated residual radiation is all that remains. And that obviously isn't enough, nor can it determine whether those beings were time travelers, visitors from another dimension, or descendants of survivors of the civilization of Atlantis. In most situations, what we do have in abundance is witness information and their experience. Obviously, that's where analyzing comes into play whether the person is credible, whether they have hidden motives, whether part of their story can be corroborated, and so on. And turning to the field of ufology, in thousands of cases that appear to be truthful, the crew members of the craft have said they came from this or that point in the cosmos. One can choose whether or not to believe them. But at least there you have a clear answer.

Thanks for the comment!
You say: "Obviously, that's where analyzing comes into play..."
Well, let’s actually apply some real, rigorous analysis instead of blindly taking these so-called "aliens" at their word like dupes. You mention that in thousands of cases, the crew members of the craft have claimed they came from this or that constellation in the cosmos. Let’s analyze this "clear answer" from a purely scientific and engineering standpoint.
Here is what Elena Perepelkina writes about these "cosmic addresses":

A star system or a constellation is—excuse me—not an aggregate of stars bound together by some connection. They are bound into a single constellation by the only fact that the projection of these stars onto our sky creates a stable configuration. It changes with the passage of time, insignificantly, but that does not mean the stars of one constellation are in the same place. It means only that in our sky they look like such. Astronomers know this perfectly well, to the majority of the population—no, and to the 'visitors from the Pleiades'—this, as you can see, is also unknown. «From the Pleiades» is not an address; it is like sending a letter to 'the middle of nowhere'. Statements by anyone whosoever that they are from some constellation always look highly suspicious if there is no specification as to which particular star of that constellation.

By the way, speaking of constellations: false reports constantly flash in the press that certain constellations (now one, now another) are united into a single civilization. But what is projected onto our sky as constellations is not a cluster of stars occupying some interconnected position. These are distortions of outer space that trigger the illusion inside us that they are somehow united and moving together in the same direction, which creates a stable configuration of these stars in our sky. In reality, the distances between these stars are often tens of light-years.
I assure you that it has never crossed anyone's mind to unite into civilizations merely because stars have lined up into a constellation on someone's particular sky. Therefore, it is foolish to reason about a civilization of Orion or the Pleiades, even though these topics figure in conversations with fake aliens.

[Irminsül]

You've started off on the wrong foot, because you attributed words to me that I never said. I wrote "this or that point in the cosmos." I never used the word "constellation," precisely because I wanted to cover a range of possibilities. Some beings have said they come from Venus, from one particular star, from another universe, or (yes, this one) from a certain constellation, from another dimension, and so on. The truth is that human beings aren't in a position to judge with certainty whether any of these is feasible, at least not with the materialist science we have and relying on that alone.

Take the closest case, Venus. Someone with a narrow mind would say, "Of course nobody could live there, it's 460 degrees Celsius!" But that comes from a very limited view, where the whole range of possible facts has to fit inside the flimsy, extremely incomplete understanding of present-day humans. And regardless of what orthodox science currently maintains, there are countless grounds for believing in a spiritual life, in planes of existence beyond the tangible world, and in many other concepts that reductionist materialism simply can't encompass. Following that same line, there could easily be an entire civilization living on Venus. Because they exist in a different vibrational state or plane of existence, we just can't perceive them by conventional means. So it wouldn't be false in any way for the crew of a UFO to say they come from there, which has in fact happened in numerous cases where the witnesses were highly credible people (I'm not talking about Adamski, who was a controversial figure).

In the same way, it's wrong to go around saying it's foolish to believe certain beings are telling the truth when they say they come from the Pleiades. To begin with, the Pleiades are a group of stars clustered together, only a few light-years apart from one another. And even though the cluster sits roughly 440 light-years from us, and without even going back to the alternatives of the supramaterial world, how can we know there aren't other beings for whom that distance means next to nothing, given their technology?

Besides, these beings have no obligation to tell us, in a way we can understand, where they truly come from. Maybe they simply say "we come from Orion" to give us some vague point of reference, and nothing more. Because what's essential is the mission they're carrying out, not whether they come from here or there.

Literally on our own planet, about 1,000 years ago, if you had tried to explain to a person of that era what a bullet train, a cell phone, or an aircraft that can reach the Moon is and what it can do, it would never have entered his mind that any of it was true or possible. And yet here we are. What could civilizations that are 50,000 or 1,000,000 years ahead of us achieve?

And finally, no offense intended, haha, but I see you keep citing Elena Leonidovna Perepelkina as if she were a benchmark for anything, or as if her statements had any real relevance to this topic. I've been looking into her, and she's a walking contradiction. She fervently promoted the idea that we shouldn't trust the messages given to us by supposed extraterrestrials, while guiding herself by the messages that supposed extraterrestrials were giving her (!). I won't go on about this alleged contactee, because after reviewing the concepts she held, I consider it a waste of time. Her delusional claims are on the level of Billy Meier stating to be the reincarnation of Jesus, or George Van Tassel predicting apocalyptic planetary scenarios for 1953, 1958 and 1973.

For anyone who wants to read for themselves the information Elena was putting out, here's a website with material of hers: https://lektsia.com/12x8789.html

I should clarify that, so as not to sound categorical (I don't like doing that), perhaps some of the things this woman said were true, however outlandish they may sound. They just don't convince me.

[Aleksandr]

You've started off on the wrong foot, because you attributed words to me that I never said. I wrote "this or that point in the cosmos." I never used the word "constellation," precisely because I wanted to cover a range of possibilities. Some beings have said they come from Venus, from one particular star, from another universe, or (yes, this one) from a certain constellation, from another dimension, and so on. The truth is that human beings aren't in a position to judge with certainty whether any of these is feasible, at least not with the materialist science we have and relying on that alone.

You know, I would still like to finally figure out exactly what we are dealing with here. Is it interstellar travelers from other galaxies, entities from other dimensions, or Venusians? Is it all the same thing to you? It seems these so-called beings are completely confused themselves and cannot give a clear answer as to who they are and where they came from. Isn’t ufology supposed to be doing exactly that—figuring out who is who? If humanity was capable of discovering DNA, chromosomes, black holes, lasers, radiation, and viruses, we are surely capable of figuring out an alien's home address.

Take the closest case, Venus. Someone with a narrow mind would say, "Of course nobody could live there, it's 460 degrees Celsius!" But that comes from a very limited view, where the whole range of possible facts has to fit inside the flimsy, extremely incomplete understanding of present-day humans. And regardless of what orthodox science currently maintains, there are countless grounds for believing in a spiritual life, in planes of existence beyond the tangible world, and in many other concepts that reductionist materialism simply can't encompass. Following that same line, there could easily be an entire civilization living on Venus. Because they exist in a different vibrational state or plane of existence, we just can't perceive them by conventional means. So it wouldn't be false in any way for the crew of a UFO to say they come from there, which has in fact happened in numerous cases where the witnesses were highly credible people (I'm not talking about Adamski, who was a controversial figure).

This is absolutely beautiful! You have just personally confirmed Elena Perepelkina's core thesis: that some spiritual entities merely disguise themselves as extraterrestrials while hiding out on Venus or any other planet. Furthermore, you love to lecture us about 'a different vibrational state'. The entire psychic community, all esotericists, all mediums, and the like are now simply obsessed with the frequency of vibrations. Whichever New Age book on the subject you open, it’s everywhere: frequency of vibrations… frequency of vibrations… As if this is something so completely understood by everyone that it’s not even worth clarifying what exactly is vibrating. But it would be worth it!

When faced with the brutal physical fact that Venus has a surface temperature of 460°C and atmospheric pressure that crushes steel, the New Age crowd instantly invents an unprovable "different vibrational state" or "plane of existence" to save their alien fairy tale. You claim that because they exist in an "alternate vibration," we just can't perceive them by conventional means. Well, let's look at this from a purely scientific and engineering standpoint, without the mystical fluff: Excuse me, but what exactly is vibrating inside these aliens, and how many Hertz is that vibration? What is the frequency? What is the amplitude? What physical medium or material particles are performing these oscillations? If you claim a physical process like "vibration," give us the exact engineering parameters. Otherwise, "vibrational state" is just a hollow, comforting New Age term used to justify a complete lack of evidence.

In the same way, it's wrong to go around saying it's foolish to believe certain beings are telling the truth when they say they come from the Pleiades. To begin with, the Pleiades are a group of stars clustered together, only a few light-years apart from one another. And even though the cluster sits roughly 440 light-years from us, and without even going back to the alternatives of the supramaterial world, how can we know there aren't other beings for whom that distance means next to nothing, given their technology?

As far as I can tell, you have absolutely no grasp of Descriptive Geometry, Monge's projections, or spatial coordinates. Claiming that the Pleiades is a "compact cluster of stars" is on the exact same intellectual level as a child claiming the Earth is flat because if it were round, all the water would slide off it. If you understood spatial projections, you would know that all optical illusions work on this very principle. If you were to look at the Pleiades from any other planet in the deep space, you would see that the stars which appear "compact" from Earth are actually scattered across entirely different locations and separated by vast distances. Therefore, if an alien doesn't provide the exact mathematical coordinates of his star and simply claims he is "from the Pleiades"—he is a 100% fake alien.

Besides, these beings have no obligation to tell us, in a way we can understand, where they truly come from. Maybe they simply say "we come from Orion" to give us some vague point of reference, and nothing more. Because what's essential is the mission they're carrying out, not whether they come from here or there.

Literally on our own planet, about 1,000 years ago, if you had tried to explain to a person of that era what a bullet train, a cell phone, or an aircraft that can reach the Moon is and what it can do, it would never have entered his mind that any of it was true or possible. And yet here we are. What could civilizations that are 50,000 or 1,000,000 years ahead of us achieve?

Excuse me, but what do you mean by "they have no obligation to explain things to us"? If these entities start entering your house at night and taking your wife for sexual experiments, would you seriously not demand a clear explanation and the true purpose of their so-called "mission"?
Let’s pretend for a second that these are actual, real extraterrestrials who have been visiting Earth for thousands of years, as the ancient aliens theory suggests. Then where is the official contact? Where are the ambassadors with credentials? Where are the embassies on Earth? There are none. Instead, these "highly advanced" beings have been covertly studying human sexuality and "spirituality" for millennia. Seriously? How long does it take to study the exact same thing? So far, all the hard evidence is heavily stacked against these so-called aliens. Our "task" is merely to be amazed, to be frightened, to remember what we saw, and to recall it as frequently as possible.

And finally, no offense intended, haha, but I see you keep citing Elena Leonidovna Perepelkina as if she were a benchmark for anything, or as if her statements had any real relevance to this topic. I've been looking into her, and she's a walking contradiction. She fervently promoted the idea that we shouldn't trust the messages given to us by supposed extraterrestrials, while guiding herself by the messages that supposed extraterrestrials were giving her (!). I won't go on about this alleged contactee, because after reviewing the concepts she held, I consider it a waste of time. Her delusional claims are on the level of Billy Meier stating to be the reincarnation of Jesus, or George Van Tassel predicting apocalyptic planetary scenarios for 1953, 1958 and 1973.

You claim Elena Perepelkina is a walking contradiction because she warns people not to trust alien messages while supposedly guiding herself by them. If you had actually read the text you are linking to, you would see she addresses this on the very first pages: She explicitly states that she never acted as a "naive, gullible contactee" who blindly wrote down whatever was whispered to her. On the contrary, she approached the phenomenon with the cold, cynical mind of a Soviet structural engineer. Her statements and the technical questions she raises are full of common sense, unlike the delusional claims about "vibrations" and "blue auras" spewed by the self-proclaimed representatives of the New Age. Her book is not an idol to worship; it is an urgent wake-up call for our scientists to turn on their logic and start thinking, rather than expanding their consciousness and inflating their spirituality.

For anyone who wants to read for themselves the information Elena was putting out, here's a website with material of hers: https://lektsia.com/12x8789.html

Wow, thank you for doing my homework and providing the Russian link to Elena Perepelkina's text! You might speak Russian perfectly, but let’s be honest: it is rather bad manners to drop a raw link to a foreign Russian webpage and tell an English-speaking audience to "read it for themselves" to prove your point. Especially considering that I have already spent my time doing a high-quality English translation of her work and provided the direct link to it in my very first post.
Furthermore, the webpage you provided contains absolutely zero biographical information about Elena Perepelkina. In fact, such information doesn't even exist on the Russian web. It is just raw, unformatted text from her book. I completely accept that I might have made minor errors during my translation, as my English is far from perfect. However, anyone here is welcome to read the translation and ask me directly if anything sounds unclear, and we will glady clear it up together.

I should clarify that, so as not to sound categorical (I don't like doing that), perhaps some of the things this woman said were true, however outlandish they may sound. They just don't convince me.

And finally, at the end of your post, you attached a beautiful drawing of an attractive male figure that is supposed to serve as visual proof of extraterrestrial existence. Hold on a second… He looks awfully familiar… Ah! Of course! It's that very same Aelita-Man who spends his time covertly harvesting the sexual emotions of human women!

[Denise/Dizi]

If true, it would seem more likely that the craft would have been a manmade construction, and those within it, not worried about the strains and pressures of our atmosphere and speed. The bolts would also cause aerodynamic interference, unless it had some form of a "Bubble" around it...

There was a man who built a platform many decades ago, that he could stand on, based upon the design of the wings of a particular beetle. He made the claim that "once in flight " he seemed to have some sort of a shield around him in which the wind and speed did not affect him. There are images somewhere online of this man standing on his very bulky, and very non aerodynamic box, lingering in the sky in a posture that supposes he is indeed moving at some speed.

The bulky nature of his device seemingly not in any way, disturbing his ability to literally fly gracefully.

We have shields of air or gasses that surround submarines these days, that allow them to glide through water without the normal drag a submarine would experience. Allowing those within it to travel as if through a straw through water, without any of the pressure and effects of the density of mass they're passing through.

If you spin a wheel at the end of a pole, eventually as it picks up speed, one can lift the wheel to spin in mid air, quite easily... Like a wheel spinning faster, it becomes easier to manipulate it... The minute the mass of the spinning object begins to slow down away from that center of rotation, the wheel becomes heavy and wants to fall out of its location to the ground. There have been experiments of someone spinning a wheel and the faster the spin, the easier it is to manipulate. One can hold it up and the gravitational spin seems to negate the weight of the device itself.

The same holds true when you ride a motorcycle, once the wheels are spinning at the proper speed, the bike wants to remain upright. It is when someone slows unexpectedly, or tries to stop, that it becomes a venture in stability, and the rider is more likely to drop the motorcycle.

I tend to believe our reality is a simulation, and as such one can enter and disappear from our reality as easily as we move around daily. Edit the running program to create a doorway, which would be normal in our environment, and POOF, someone can walk through it.

And measurements. We have made our own standards. We have decided an inch is an inch and as such, when we measure everything using that measurement, we get a complete image of our surroundings based upon what we determined or agreed to use as our measurements. Anyone using a ruler can gt the same results...

We have yet to actually figure out the true nature of our reality. But it is obvious it is measureable, if we wish to do so. So from that standpoint, we could always create measurement models for anything, and we have... Weight, volume, etc... But who says these measurements mean anything in the real picture of the nature of our reality itself?

That would be like a dog determining the distance of a street by how many hydrants it can urinate on during his regular walk. Take him to a new street, with less hydrants, and then we have an anomaly we need to explain. But all dogs walking his street would know how many hydrants it has, and agree on such things.

What I am suggesting is, we don't know what we don't know, so throwing stones about any of it, is a futile exercise. I can't see a bee from a block away but it doesn't mean it isn't there. Half the time I can't find something that is in my own pocket, because I forgot to look there. And like Schrodinger, is it really there? Or does it reappear when I wish to recover it? Leaving only the impression of something in my pocket, until I actually reach for it? So doorways appearing out of nowhere.. Hex bolts appearing on craft that make it seem as if it was a mistake, or forming am "obvious" conclusion about any of it, is an exercise in arrogance in my opinion.

I've had a contact experience, it wasn't "woo woo" at all... While my body did "Vibrate" (Which may be a clue to the nature of what it actually was?) I wasn't foolish enough to create a YouTube channel claiming "raising your vibration" does anything to anyone. I wasn't examined, I wasn't told any predictions, I wasn't in any way affected as many claim.. Aside from the telepathic interactions, fully in English, and funny...

With the massive amount of people in this world, you will get just as many opinions on such things.

But hex nuts, are not a proof of anything, nor a critical detail of any facts about who or what it truly was. It was merely an observation we have yet to determine the cause of. Or the actual negative impacts using such things would have if say... these craft can step out of our reality, and step back in. And technically there was a man who suggested while we can't do that yet, it would be possible according to our physics.

I am more interested in what happened to these people when they experienced such things... THAT if baffling...

[grapevine]

This may or may not be relevant to the discussion as I havent read the entire thread properly, but . . .

Back in the 60s a friend worked at Ford Motor Company and cars were made first in clay, often over wooden frames. And then it might be made again in different materials, several times - without any engine - just to see it from all angles and to make modifications before going into production. It doesn't seem much of a jump to relate this idea to other forms. ie. a ufo prototypes.

[Aleksandr]

Posted by Denise/Dizi (here)
If true, it would seem more likely that the craft would have been a manmade construction, and those within it, not worried about the strains and pressures of our atmosphere and speed. The bolts would also cause aerodynamic interference, unless it had some form of a "Bubble" around it...

There was a man who built a platform many decades ago, that he could stand on, based upon the design of the wings of a particular beetle. He made the claim that "once in flight " he seemed to have some sort of a shield around him in which the wind and speed did not affect him. There are images somewhere online of this man standing on his very bulky, and very non aerodynamic box, lingering in the sky in a posture that supposes he is indeed moving at some speed.

The bulky nature of his device seemingly not in any way, disturbing his ability to literally fly gracefully.

We have shields of air or gasses that surround submarines these days, that allow them to glide through water without the normal drag a submarine would experience. Allowing those within it to travel as if through a straw through water, without any of the pressure and effects of the density of mass they're passing through.

If you spin a wheel at the end of a pole, eventually as it picks up speed, one can lift the wheel to spin in mid air, quite easily... Like a wheel spinning faster, it becomes easier to manipulate it... The minute the mass of the spinning object begins to slow down away from that center of rotation, the wheel becomes heavy and wants to fall out of its location to the ground. There have been experiments of someone spinning a wheel and the faster the spin, the easier it is to manipulate. One can hold it up and the gravitational spin seems to negate the weight of the device itself.

The same holds true when you ride a motorcycle, once the wheels are spinning at the proper speed, the bike wants to remain upright. It is when someone slows unexpectedly, or tries to stop, that it becomes a venture in stability, and the rider is more likely to drop the motorcycle.

I tend to believe our reality is a simulation, and as such one can enter and disappear from our reality as easily as we move around daily. Edit the running program to create a doorway, which would be normal in our environment, and POOF, someone can walk through it.

And measurements. We have made our own standards. We have decided an inch is an inch and as such, when we measure everything using that measurement, we get a complete image of our surroundings based upon what we determined or agreed to use as our measurements. Anyone using a ruler can gt the same results...

We have yet to actually figure out the true nature of our reality. But it is obvious it is measureable, if we wish to do so. So from that standpoint, we could always create measurement models for anything, and we have... Weight, volume, etc... But who says these measurements mean anything in the real picture of the nature of our reality itself?

That would be like a dog determining the distance of a street by how many hydrants it can urinate on during his regular walk. Take him to a new street, with less hydrants, and then we have an anomaly we need to explain. But all dogs walking his street would know how many hydrants it has, and agree on such things.

What I am suggesting is, we don't know what we don't know, so throwing stones about any of it, is a futile exercise. I can't see a bee from a block away but it doesn't mean it isn't there. Half the time I can't find something that is in my own pocket, because I forgot to look there. And like Schrodinger, is it really there? Or does it reappear when I wish to recover it? Leaving only the impression of something in my pocket, until I actually reach for it? So doorways appearing out of nowhere.. Hex bolts appearing on craft that make it seem as if it was a mistake, or forming am "obvious" conclusion about any of it, is an exercise in arrogance in my opinion.

I've had a contact experience, it wasn't "woo woo" at all... While my body did "Vibrate" (Which may be a clue to the nature of what it actually was?) I wasn't foolish enough to create a YouTube channel claiming "raising your vibration" does anything to anyone. I wasn't examined, I wasn't told any predictions, I wasn't in any way affected as many claim.. Aside from the telepathic interactions, fully in English, and funny...

With the massive amount of people in this world, you will get just as many opinions on such things.

But hex nuts, are not a proof of anything, nor a critical detail of any facts about who or what it truly was. It was merely an observation we have yet to determine the cause of. Or the actual negative impacts using such things would have if say... these craft can step out of our reality, and step back in. And technically there was a man who suggested while we can't do that yet, it would be possible according to our physics.

I am more interested in what happened to these people when they experienced such things... THAT if baffling...

You got off easy, Ma'am! You were lucky that they only chatted with you in a humorous way and made your body "vibrate." They could have just as easily invited you to fly to a neighboring galaxy and set up a cosmic threesome there.
What would have happened if, instead of a telepathic "Hello!", you had suddenly said "¡Hola!" or "Priviet!" to them? It would be truly fascinating to know: would they have telepathically answered you in fluent Spanish or Russian? Or would they have stubbornly continued to communicate only in English?
And what if you had unexpectedly proposed to slather their backs with fruit jam? What exactly would have happened within your "contact experience" then?
Furthermore, if you were to move and live in Argentina or Russia today, and they were to establish contact with you once again—would they continue to chat with you in English, or would they suddenly switch to Spanish or Russian? It would be highly interesting to find out! Because so far, your... m-m "beings" seem to have a very cozy, highly localized, and suspicious preference for the English language.