The Last Human : A thought experiment

[Bill Ryan]

Dear Friends, I was thinking about quite deeply this the other day. It occurred to me it might generate an interesting discussion.

The hypothetical situation:

I'm suddenly the last human alive on Earth. But I also have the the capacity to clone myself. So to attempt to ensure survival of the human race, I clone a million copies of myself, half male and half female.

The clones all possess the same intelligence, skills, abilities and life experience as myself.

All human infrastructure remains intact. There's some gasoline and diesel, and stored food, and the power grid will continue to run for a little while, until things start to break. There are cars and trucks and ships and planes, and empty hospitals with all their equipment. There would even be GPS as long as satellites continues to stay orbiting.

The question:

Could we rebuild civilization?

I quickly concluded that we could not. None the the million of us could fly a plane, or operate a large ship. (But we could sail across the oceans, maybe.)

We'd be able to teach ourselves to drive trucks, and maybe other heavy machinery. But operating and maintaining every other aspect of modern civilization might be completely beyond us. Even simple farming (for us) would be something we'd have to learn from scratch. Could we properly set a broken leg, administer anesthesia, or perform even the simplest operation? Maybe, but maybe not.

There are books that address much of this. The two most most excellent civilization-rebuilding manuals are

• When Technology Fails (in the library here)
• The Book - The Ultimate Guide to Rebuilding Civilization (in the library here).

~~~

What this thought experiment really brought home to me was the truth of what so many others have pointed out: that if we were suddenly hit by a very major geophysical cataclysm (or maybe even a genuinely deadly pandemic that killed 90% of humans), we'd all be right back in the 16th century. We'd be all trying to farm, hunt, ride horses, and quickly be dependent on quill pens and candlelight. And we'd be doing a far poorer job with all than humans actually were doing in the 16th century.

~~~

Do please add your personal thoughts to this. Of course, it's a silly hypothesis, easy to poke fun at and poke holes in — but the cataclysm possibility is a real one.

And a million people from all walks of life (farmers, engineers, technicians, doctors, machine operators, construction workers, pilots) having randomly survived, as long as they could communicate and organize would surely do a far far better job than a million identical copies of me. (Or even you! )

It was sort of humbling to realize how completely incompetent I am at so many practical, essential, things — not a joke at all.

[Sue (Ayt)]

Well Bill, if the infrastructure remained intact for a while, it would be wise to immediately assign every clone to read and learn a specific needed skill, whether they liked it or not, for the common cause.
If each one devoted all their time to learning and practicing mainly that skill, that could eventually bring things back up to a certain level. This is assuming that books full of all the acquired knowledge of the past up to that point would remain after the cataclysm.

I guess it also depends on how identical your clones are to you. They can't all be running around climbing mountains! haha. But since you say that 1/2 are female, that is a hint that they are not really identical clones I suppose.
So guess you'd have to get busy on teaching, assigning, and directing them on what needs doing.
With your intelligence and altruism, I'd imagine they would all agree that certain learned skills will need mastered to preserve the human race, and would agree to your assignments and persevere on learning them.

"Teach Your Children Well" as CSNY say.

[Ewan]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
How completely incompetent I am at so many practical, essential, things.

That should probably be my signature.

What this thought experiment really brought home to me was the truth of what so many others have pointed out: that if we were suddenly hit by a very major geophysical cataclysm (or maybe even a genuinely deadly pandemic that killed 90% of humans), we'd all be right back in the 16th century. We'd be all trying to farm, hunt, ride horses, and quickly be dependent on quill pens and candlelight. And we'd be doing a far poorer job with all than humans actually were doing in the 16th century.

Given the probable widespread geographical locations of survivors there's a good chance half of them would be dead in 6 - 12 months. Until some kind of communications were established you would have various enclaves forming, groups who would fare better, or worse, than others. Now, psychologically at least, we are tribal with the inherent mindsets. Would trust be so easily established?

I'd probably gamble some small stake that we'd be watching a repeat of the past. Sadly.

[Mike Gorman]

What we would desperately need is some genetic variation, to get away from the duplicate DNA situation very quickly, I know of course this is a thought experiment and the details are not as important as the sheer challenges of practical skills, getting stuff to work for us and securing food and physical safety, shelter - I have often surprised myself with learning practical skills when it was essential, I drove one of those Bobcat bull dozer type machines after a minimum of tutoring, learned how to lay bricks and build in my earliest years, having a former Army engineer and tradesman as a father meant that I was compelled to work in holidays on building sites, all very practical stuff, comes in handy! I simply mean that it is surprising what we can achieve if the situation demands from us. Yes, once the electricity stops, our thin veneer of civilization will rapidly wear thin, interesting concept Bill.

[petra]

This sort of happened on an episode of Star Trek. They tried to kidnap all the children.

You're going to need children and that's just a recipe for disaster. The better alternative would be to keep cloning.

Ever see multiplicity? Every time dude clones himself the clone gets stupider. I wonder does that make sense in real life cloning? Making a clone of a clone would sort of.. degrade them somehow.

[Bill Ryan]

Many thanks for your interesting replies. I don't think I presented my thoughts at all well! But the real point of what I was trying to say was that left alone after a catastrophe (even if there were a million of me) I profoundly doubt I'd be able to keep many things working despite all my (so-called) 'intelligence'.

After a worst-case scenario, practical skill in a whole bunch of fields would be the only thing that mattered.

I found it impossible not to dwell on what must have happened after the last major catastrophe 12,000 years ago. A few survived and were able to sail the oceans to relocate and start to rebuild in what is now the Middle East. They brought farming skills with them, but the rest was almost certainly lost forever.

They may have had some assistance from the 'Gods' (meaning, benevolent ETs stepping in to lend a hand). After the cataclysm, despite the skills and undoubted intelligence of the survivors, it took 6,000 long years to begin to re-establish city-states like those in Sumeria.

And this might have happened more than once in the distant past. The 'good' news, of course, is that even if all this were to happen again, as Ben Davidson and others forecast, in another 10,000—12,000 years or so we'd have re-invented spaceflight, computers, and all the rest. The deepest question might be if we ever get past that point — and if so, what then.

[Harmony]

What if there is a lot more to this "event". I think It was last year that I had a "dream". It was after some kind of water catastrophe. Some people just passed through and walked out of the sea. Some had life jackets on and were upside down in the ocean near the beach, but when approaching them, they awakened and were now alive like nothing happened. Some on the beach were people that were already deceaced before this event..



The different frequencies or levels of existence, became one new frequency world all combined and everyone existed in this new reality. It felt like the world goes through a change, and souls go through a change like a new rebirth. If something like that happened we might have different ways to accomplish things and new ways our souls would live in the world together. It may not be going back to the way things were 6 or 12,000 years ago. Just maybe we will make changes for a new chapter in the world and keep our consciousness and life experiences intact somehow, and I got the impression even from our different lifetmes as well. Just another thought I consider, even though it seems way out there.

[truthseek]

Yup, I agree to all. ... good thing there is such a thing as spiritual evolution...

[onawah]

I think it's a good sign that people are beginning to think about what's coming in a more realistic way, though as Bill admits, it's pretty clear that clones aren't really a viable option.
For one thing, from what I gather, the clones that have actually been created to take the place of real humans have proven to be incapable of surviving for long, and weren't intelligent enough to be of much use, in any case.
If the rumors are true that the Zeta Reticulans are descendants of Earth humans who created shelters underground to survive a catastrophe from the past, and have come to this time in order to collect DNA from abductees because they cannot reproduce, then that is another argument against cloning.
From what I have deduced and gleaned from spirit guides, Earth is in dire need of a long, healing break from humankind and this time around, the 12,000 year solar cycle will actually help save the Her from simply becoming another dead planet.
I don't think Preppers have much of a chance of surviving for long this time around, though I admire their spirit and tenacity.
The elite who are planning to survive in their DUMBS have even less of a chance, imho, and may end up as Zeta Reticulans, which would be ironic on a cosmic scale.
I think the souls who are incarnated now on Earth will simply be incarnating on other planets of varying degrees of civilizations according to their individual evolutionary level, or will be leaving 3D reality and will not be in material bodies, at least for a time; long enough to heal from the trauma that life on Earth is becoming, at least.
...And that it will take much longer this time around for the planet to be capable of supporting life effectively on an ongoing basis, as so much worldwide damage has been inflicted over this cycle.
But inasmuch as these dark days may signal the end of the Kali Yuga, at least it may all be uphill once the coming micronova has done it's thing.
I think there will be conflicts between regressive and benevolent ETs over who will hold dominion over Earth in what may be the coming Satya Yuga, but the good guys will prevail in time as the Light increases, and they will seed the planet with humanoid souls once again, as they have done in the past.
I don't think that the reinvention of technology will necessarily be the goal of the next cycle on Earth, rather it may be that Earth souls will be evolving more dimensionally.
The psychic Gigi Young has described souls in early Lumerian times as living in more etheric, non-material bodies, but eventually becoming more and more material, and I think (as she predicts) that process may be repeating on the coming New Earth once Gaia has healed sufficiently.
I think it was an early Star Trek show (though the memory is vague), where the Enterprise visited a planet where the people lived simply and in peaceful, contented harmony with Nature, but were so evolved that they could do a group meditation and make their planet disappear into a higher dimension when there was a threat from space, and then drop back down into 3D once the threat was gone.
They were quite content to continue evolving in that way, forgoing technological development as unnecessary.
I found that concept to be very appealing!

[DNA]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Many thanks for your interesting replies. I don't think I presented my thoughts at all well! But the real point of what I was trying to say was that left alone after a catastrophe (even if there were a million of me) I profoundly doubt I'd be able to keep many things working despite all my (so-called) 'intelligence'.

After a worst-case scenario, practical skill in a whole bunch of fields would be the only thing that mattered.

I found it impossible not to dwell on what must have happened after the last major catastrophe 12,000 years ago. A few survived and were able to sail the oceans to relocate and start to rebuild in what is now the Middle East. They brought farming skills with them, but the rest was almost certainly lost forever.

They may have had some assistance from the 'Gods' (meaning, benevolent ETs stepping in to lend a hand). After the cataclysm, despite the skills and undoubted intelligence of the survivors, it took 6,000 long years to begin to re-establish city-states like those in Sumeria.

And this might have happened more than once in the distant past. The 'good' news, of course, is that even if all this were to happen again, as Ben Davidson and others forecast, in another 10,000—12,000 years or so we'd have re-invented spaceflight, computers, and all the rest. The deepest question might be if we ever get past that point — and if so, what then.

I've been doing a deep dive in the Billy Meier material.
Especially in so how Atlantis went down and the time from then to now.
I personally believe the contacts and I believe they were concluded in 1978, meier says this himself.
I wouldn't worry so much about technology and or what we perceive as accomplishments being lost.

The only earth sourced humans are Australian aboriginal people and some African tribes.
The rest of us are the result of mixed genealogies from Lyran, Andromedan, Vega, Syrian to name a few.
Earth technology has taken a very negative destructive turn.
It's easier to invent, manufacture and proliferate antigravity and free energy machines than it is a jet fighter.
Our planet is weird.
Chaotic dirty technology proliferates because our controllers suppress the clean and easy.

Within 50 years of the industrial revolution we should have had a planet wide knowledge of space travel and free energy

If mankind were wiped from the world new people would show up and do it all over again

Just my 2©
Take care

[Vicus]

...and if so,what then...

Well some people are preparing for that ( some plan/theory/conspirator theory/ whatever we wanna call it) : The Break Away civilization. (IF such thing is possible...)

I recall a very old episode from "unknown dimension" TV show (or something like that),where a Librarian mouse worker (with none life apart from books) was happy when Nuclear war was reality...
Working in Basement saved his life, now can live his life only for books without people laughing at him because his nerd nature ...

And then just walking to next room Stumbles on Debris and broke his myopia glasses...The End.

Considering

No matter how many survivor pockets across the planet will still be,ALL of them will go trough the same Deficiency from EVERYTHING!

Let say they can resolve at least intermittent food/water deficiency...but then...

- Health: any cut could turn in infection, toothache? ,broke limb?, and do not let me started with women issues...NO "pill" anymore,so...watch your six girl! or else...and then come next generation problems... and on and on ...worse as any Mad Max movie (where because are movies,there is still fast everywhere muscle cars with gas,plenty weapons,yada,yada)

Education: with this I mean first to teach your language first at all,arithmetic,writing,reed,etc.

OK, in one word: knowledge! from where? that is the question! dear Watson...

Just try to be a little optimist,let say all that "minutia" will be some how more or less accomplish...

But the REAL problem/danger are the "others", the not in your "group" people...

Scavengers from all types, include cannibals...

Better I call the night here...

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I've had this exact same thought before. And run the same thought experiment. What if everyone in the world was me. Identical in every sense. I stand in firm opposition to greed, malice, violence, harm. I care. I love. I want the very best for everyone.

It would be utopia, right?

Wrong,

I concluded that the entire human race of me would die out in a single generation anyway.

It all boils down to diversity. Actually, that word is tainted now. Call it 'uniqueness'. If everyone was me, there'd be no uniqueness, and everyone would die. If I said to a thousand mes, 'okay, you're going to farm the fields'; to another thousand, 'you're going to work the power plants'; to another thousand, 'you're going to overhaul economics and make things fair' -- and a million other 'things' I delegate -- I know what all the mes are going to say (because they're me), they'll reply: 'I don't want to, let someone else do it.'

It's because I'm not especially interested in farming -- I don't want to learn about being a farmer. Or a power plant worker. Or an economist. I don't want to spend my time doing these things, or trying to figure out how to do these things without anyone else around to teach me. I only want to do the things I want to do. And the other mes would be the same. They'd want to keep to their own narrow lanes. And we all have our own narrow lanes. We're not polymaths (or very few of us are).

In all the fields and areas of human activity that lie beyond my own spheres of interest, there would be no movement, no progress. I suppose when the power shuts off and the food runs out there will be a scramble to 'try' and do something about it. By then it would be too late. And it doesn't matter that there's a clear and obvious need to keep the power on, the food coming in, the water flowing, and all infrastructure running in good order -- I personally, individually, and therefore in this scenario collectively, do not have the capacity -- the aptitude -- to make that happen. You need people interested and completely invested in all these things to do all these things. It takes a mechanic who's passionate about mechanics to be a good mechanic. I do not have that passion, so I would fail. Essentially, all the billion mes would want to do the same things as me. Because they are me. They'd all want to be the ones delegating tasks, not actually doing tasks. They'd fight, they'd argue, and eventually, disgusted with each other, find some place to hide away and be alone. Then die alone. And that would be the end of it.

Civilisation needs Uniqueness. It needs a diverse array of passions, personalities, and skills. A spectrum of different flavours. A million different approaches to a million different things. Clone the same one person over and over and over again, you're on the fast track to extinction.

[Sidenote: it's why some of the ET groups are here right now on Earth. The above thought experiment played out for real in their reality. They cloned the uniqueness out of their genetics, and they reached an evolutionary dead end. They're interested in us, because we have in abundance everything that they lost.]

[Johan (Keyholder)]

What you describe is definitely true for most of us. Very few people have the ability and interests to "do everything".

Mark, what do you think about the idea that the ET-groups (from your sidenote) are actually "us" (= the present human race, in the future) that have "evolved" into the sort of cloned society you mention? How they cpuld timetravel is yet another question then of course.

[Ernie Nemeth]

The absoluteness of the clone claim needs criticism. First of all, there'd only be one generation of you then, right? Because you're all one sex.

Second, it presupposes many underlying fundamentals. It cancels the reason we are here in the first place. It also nixes the idea of "we are all one".

Third, how did millions of me come about? I understand thought experiments but this one collapses under the weight of its own illogical premise, rendering any insights derived thereof, moot.

If there were ever millions of me the world would end immediately, due to lack of interest. How boring, how predictable, how disastrous that would be.


And if it ever did happen, the very first thing that would happen after that is each me would start to differentiate from the rest, and soon every me would be unique, if only pretending. Because I detest conformity.

So we would succeed where others might fail just out of spite, if nothing else.

[Vicus]

Let me try a train of subjects...

My first book about who and how "The Controllers" are and use diverse "Techniques" to "Cornering" Humanity was Propaganda,from Andrew Barneys.

That was for me like find a Pirates road plan to their Treasure (control).

Began with "consume",the rest you can Order to your perception,like: drugs,feminism,libertine,emasculation,woke-ism, and so on...

Before woke took final form,was the demolition of any positive form of masculinity...under the umbrella that men are: dominant, competitive,aggressive,yada.yada...only good to be work drones...

20 years ago and until the woke arrival,was in TV many shows (from different country's)with same plot: 10 men let in some distant island alone,without NOTHING, they should self provide for shelter, food,etc...
After I read that book,it was clear for me what the intentions for such experiments was... Supposedly to affirm the negative "propaganda" about men...

Surprise bitches!:

That was only surprise for none masculine beings...from day 1 men organize themself for the common good: none lieder need,everyone self occupy for his better task :

a) I like fishing,so i will use that...b) another: as kid liked to build a tree house in my grand parent garden,he build Shelters,c) some others collect materials for that construction d) search for Fruits
e) the one preparing the grill for the fishes and cooking...f)another try to catch Crabs g) one organize water collectors...

In resume: by the third day (from 15 there) that was already like a little village,with everything they needed.

NONE Fights,discussions,on the contrary,like a bunch adults boy scouts having fun...getting tan, swimming, playing with some ball makes from leaves...

RESUME: BEST holiday in their life!

Well,the TV show try next with only women. CHAOS,disorganize, Rivalries,none how to do things...

NEXT TV SHOW EXPERIMENT:

MIXED test subjects...


Men doing their thing again... women the same again but now competitive (because men watching...) therefore more tan...

TV sponsors: lets try women again...


https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1679315

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by Johan (Keyholder) (here)
Mark, what do you think about the idea that the ET-groups (from your sidenote) are actually "us" (= the present human race, in the future) that have "evolved" into the sort of cloned society you mention?

I doubt it. It's a possibility, but a slim one. There's no evidence this is the case: that many of the 'Human-like ET encounters' we hear about are future humans, from Earth, who are visiting the past to fix their own timeline, or just to observe it. By 'evidence' I'm counting the massive store of regression data we have from experiencers (abductees etc) the world over. Of which I am one.

I'm much more onboard with the idea that Human-like ETs are either:

A) Crypo-terrestrial throw-backs from an ancient Earth saga. They have lived on Earth in seclusion for thousands of years without detection. They called the TV show 'Ancient Aliens'. A more accurate title might have been: 'Ancient Atlanteans'.

B) Our brothers and sisters from an older galactic civilization. It's not that they look like us -- we look like them. They inserted their genetics into our early evolution. They seeded the Earth with human DNA. Which would make the human species extra-terrestrial, not wholly indigenous to Earth. These beings continue to keep tabs on us as anyone would keep tabs on an important, long-running experiment.

C) Entirely non-human, extraterrestrial or inter-dimensional entities that are so far up the spiritual advancement hierarchy that they are no longer physical, but pure energy, pure light. They have to down-shift their vibration to even enter this density and interact with it, and when they do, they assume our physical form to 'blend in': they 'formulate' a simulacrum of a human body to house their consciousness, and ships to move around in. But I don't think we can call these 'ships' and 'bodies'. Neither involve biology and technology that we would understand. They're not normal physical objects: to coin a phrase, they are "super-physical" -- purely thought-forms congealed into solidity, and so defy reason, analysis, and the physics of normal reality.

All three are valid in my opinion. The truth likely is a combination of all three, with a little room left over for a fourth, which could be time-travellers. Let's not forget the Bentwaters incident of 1980, and the Binary message that Jim Penniston received telepathically, and which reported the year of the craft's origin. If I recall correctly it was the 81st century().

Sorry for the off-topic reply!