Viper Whistle blower

[Lazlo]

The no bathrooms/food/water description fits with the theory that the greys are just biological machines or drones.

Good interview, the guys lingo definitely sounds ex-military.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by slipknoted (here)
in the project camelot interveiw with john lear he shows a map of a top secret area northwest of area 51 and i been there and their is lot of ventilation top offs all over

How far NW?
Was it area 19 he spoke of?

[str8thinker]

Here's a sketch of a typical "Area 51" UFO by Bob Lazar, although doubt has been expressed over his credibility (see Wikipedia and other sources).

The dimensions and layout are in keeping with Viper's description. (Hope he didn't base it all on Bob's book!)

[str8thinker]

Tom Carey Examines the Viper
Current Show February 24, 2011 (Posted March 5, 2011)

Tonight we will have the pleasure of talking to Tom Carey. Tom is a respected UFO researcher, most known for his collaboration with Don Schmitt on Witness to Roswell, published in 2007 by Paraview and New Page Books.

Tom is shown on the right in the above photograph with Jerry Pippin, a fellow member of the Inception Radio Network. They are shown at Roswell in 2004.

One of the topics will be last week's interview with The Viper, which you can listen to online if you missed the show. Tom served in the Air Force around the same time that Viper served, and he also has a Top Secret clearance, so it should be interesting.

Tom is currently working on a new book about the UFO material from Roswell that went to Wright Field, so again, it should be interesting!

http://www.futuretheater.com/tom-car...-the-vipe.html

Listen to the show online (62 Mins)

Download (28 Mb MP3)

NOTE - LINK POSTED EARLIER IS WRONG AND LEADS TO A HALF-HOUR BROADCAST INSTEAD OF A ONE HOUR BROADCAST.

Open Minds forum (linked to futuretheater.com) discussing the Viper Interview (worth reading)

This should be good...

Listening to it now - will comment later.
So far, everything before 4:20 is padding. Then they begin discussing the reaction to the earlier show (Viper interview). If you want to get to the meat of the interview, skip the two interviewers interrupting each other, talking about the subsequent forum posts while waiting for Tom Carey to arrive, and go straight to 29:45.

[str8thinker]

Transcript of Tom Carey Examines The Viper

(Tom begins talking at about 30 minutes into the show.)

[Tom] I was convinced beyond reasonable doubt that he was a fabricator. If you interview enough people on one subject (this being the Roswell incident that I'm most familiar with) your antennae go up when someone like this comes along...[who was] in position in locations where this story took place so they know the background lay-of-the-land, so to speak, and what they do is simply plug themselves into the story, knowing that they will be able to answer questions about the locations and people, etc. but not actually having participated themselves.

With Viper I'm at a disadvantage because I don't see him, I don't know what he looks like, I don't know his mannerisms, so I can't compare his physical appearance with the way he conducts himself. But in listening to Viper it reminded me of another Roswell witness who ... turned out to be a phony.

I have no doubts in my mind that he was employed at Nellis [Air Force Base]. I'm not sure that he was in the Air Force, for several reasons. He was either employed in the military but [there is] also the equal possibility that he was a civilian out there.

Right away I thought he was too casual in his discussions, just way too casual for me. That's not my experience with someone who actually has information to tell. They're not that casual.

One of the other things was that in interviewing hundreds and hundreds of people and talking to, literally, thousands about the Roswell incident, the ones that are legit[imate] are rarely people that come forward and seek us out...

(Do you think that people who are "the real thing" ever come forward with their stories?) If they haven't by now, no, they will never come forward. And usually what I get is, when I find them, usually the first thing they ask is, "How did you find me?"...My experience is that the ones that do come forward, like Viper, of their own volition, usually turn out to be bogus.

(Nancy: Viper originally wrote to me a few different times...basically to correct us as we were talking about, say, Area 51...And he simply wanted to say, "You guys kinda sound foolish when you say 'Area 51'. That's almost Hollywood. It really isn't called that." So he wrote a few times. And I evaluate people based on their writing, because I'm an editor and I know writing very very well...That's how I was introduced personally to Viper. I'd never met him. Not on the phone, but through his writing, and his writing had a 'ring of reality' to it. He wasn't really trying to get attention. He simply - almost in a frustrated way - said "You people are trying to do some good." He didn't say that, but that was the undertone...And then he said, in about the third or fourth email, when I hadn't written back [I was too busy], "If you ever want to talk about some stuff, I was there." And he gave his number. That's how we got in touch with him...) It sounds to me still like he was coming forward. He initiated the contact. (That's correct.)

He initiated the contact and that's exactly how Gerald Anderson, a known Roswell hoaxer, said he was at the crash site as a five year old [discusses this].

(Nancy: The way I see it...it didn't strike me as a call for notoriety but more or less, maybe someone has just, after a long life, just gotten tired of the misinformation that gets out there and just basically wanted to correct the Area 51 thing. That's how it all started. [Bill:] Remember, his big attitude was that Kevin Cook [not Kevin Randall] was being too skeptical in his reference to Area 51 but in fact, he [Viper] said there is no Area 51 officially, it's Groom Lake and Papoose Lake. He said "I was there at Papoose Lake inside the mountain", and that's what piqued my attention. 'Cause he really made references to that and comparing that to Dulce. [Viper said] "Inside the mountain and I can tell you what went on", and what went on was so similar to Bob Lazar's story that I was really curious. Tom, what aspects of his story bothered you as well?)

[Tom] I don't know if it was a Freudian slip, or what, but you had asked him what was the setup inside the facility there? And he said "Well...there's the military side, and there's the civilian side." And he refers to them as "us civilians...us civilian flunkies."

You had asked him, did he try to steal a piece of the wreckage from one of his retrievals and he said yes, he put a little piece in his pocket...and as he was leaving, one of the officers said "Okay, let's have it." And he took the piece out of his pocket, gave it to the officer and [admitting to repercussions] said "Yes, I lost a stripe." And he had said that he was a staff sergeant. And a staff sergeant has four stripes. Having been in the Air Force myself, one thing you are aware of is pay rates. Rank and pay rates, that's what you're interested in! So he said "I lost a stripe" and you said "Well, that means you're not a staff sergeant any more. What were you?" And he said, "Just a sergeant." Well, that's absolutely false, because a three-striper, which is what I was...I was an airman first class, I think they call them senior airmen now. There's no such thing as just a sergeant in the Air Force. My ears perked up at that because there's no way a person who's in the Air Force - if I did my calculations correctly, he was in [for] seven years, 1977-84 from what I figured out.

(I should mention here that Viper is actually on the chat [chat room forum to answer questions] so he has said here that he was an E5 [and] dropped to an E4. Does that ring any bells?) I think E4 is staff sergeant and that E5 should be tech sergeant - five stripes.

(Bill: Okay, so there's an issue between whether he was a staff sergeant losing a stripe to go to three stripes, or a tech sergeant losing a stripe to go to staff sergeant...E stands for enlisted. The great thing about this is we're trying to deal in facts, and that's the fun part. Let Tom make his points, save up Viper's questions, then hit those at 7.30. So, Tom, why don't you continue?)

[Tom] Okay, so those were the things that after the [my] first hearing of the show I jotted down, that struck me. I can't address the crash sites because my forte is among the Roswell case. I don't know the others. I think someone like Kevin Randall could address those better than I.

(Bill: The forum raised serious doubts as to whether an F-4 Phantom jet, even doing manoevers on Red Flag operations, could crash into the tail end of a flying saucer. What is your reaction to that?) I found that hard to believe. I don't know the technology. It would seem to me there would be some sort of avoidance mechanism, at least on the UFO part, to avoid something like that. But that's just speculation. What I would have done if I was investigating it is to find out if there was an F-4 crash somewhere where he said it was, and if it was publicized in the newspaper, and if it took place.

(Viper was saying that the aircraft came from the 67th Recon (Reconaissance) Wing.) I'm sure he was at Groom Lake, at Papoose Lake, and does know the terrain, the territory, who was where, you know what I mean. I'm sure he does know that. The question I have is whether he was actually part of a HAZMAT [HAZardous MATerials] team that goes to air crashes and cleans up any potentially hazardous waste. That's what it sounds like to me.

(The other famous person who talked about that was of course Clifford Stone, who said he was in an Army NBC team, and he went into great detail about how the NBC...And although Cliff Stone was a friend, and although we interviewed him...nice guy, sweet guy...he's the guy who talked about what working on an NBC team was like on a regular basis.) I know Cliff, I don't know him well, but when we go to Roswell we run into him often. I know he's done a lot of work on the documents, as far as the early UFO situation...We questioned, talking among ourselves [Kevin, Don Schmitt and myself] whether Cliff actually took part in these retrievals...

(He [Cliff] also raised the issue of UFOs in Vietnam, which I know that Don Acker was specifically pretty skeptical about.) Yes. Let me ask you, Bill and Nancy, is there any documentation that can be followed regarding Viper that can place him where he says he was?

(Bill: Question one has been logged. Next question?) When did he leave the service, and why, and what has he been doing since? Those are the two main questions I have. I would love to see his DD214. Without that I don't have much to go on other than his story. He tells it very well. Listening to it the second time he sounded very cogent, to be honest with you...And he still has friends there [at Nellis]. Is there anyone that can corroborate his story?

(Bill: I found so many correspondences between things he said about things Earl Fulford had said that he [Viper] reminded me of, and the other thing was not just Earl Fulford but Walter Haupt [The PIO(public information officer)of the Roswell base in 1947,the man who composed the first news release, stating that the Air Force had the debris of a flying saucer, that had crashed on Mac Brazel's ranch]. Walter Haupt never even saw the actual bodies - Walter Haupt said that he saw the bodies in the body bags, that was in his affidavit - and that it was Blanchard [Colonel William "Butch" Blanchard, a key player in the recovery of the Roswell disk and developing the cover-up conspiracy] who held up his hand to say how high [height of ETs] they were, and those were the bodies that left Roswell. That's in the new book "Witness to Roswell". And the other issue was that, [Viper] pocketing a piece of the "memory metal"...Remember we were at the site that Fulford took us to (this was on UFOHunters) and we specifically asked Fulford, "Did anybody on that grid search policing the area take any of the memory metal?" And Earl said - there were MPs all over the place keeping an eye on everyone picking up the memory metal - that you would be in a whole world of trouble (that was 1947) if you were caught pocketing any of that memory metal, 'cause they were there with the gunny sacks, holding them by the trucks. I have to say that was a very similar story.)

[Tom] Yes, yes. I've heard different stories, that they had wheelbarrows or drop points where they would empty the gunny sacks. They're very similar [stories] and I guess they would be. [Returning to Viper's account] The question is, did he actually take part in these retrievals? It's the most difficult type of witness to verify without further corroboration from others that you can ask questions to [of], or documentation that will place him in the right place. My experience is that whenever I get a witness whose story I can't verify - every avenue seems to be closed - then we're talking about the sort of thing that probably didn't happen.

(Nancy: You've done twenty years of research into this [Roswell], do you think it's possible that it's so commonplace that there's more than one person like Viper, that there are many, many crashes? Is Roswell just one of many crashes?) To believe all these crashes, it must be raining UFOs, and I just don't buy that. The Roswell crash made national headlines...Viper says he was at eight crashes. That's a lot of crashes in a short period of time (seven years). I don't recall any of them making the newspaper or the television. You would think that the law of averages would have crashed in an area where a number of civilians saw it.

(Bill: Well, let's take one specific case. The reason the Roswell crash made headlines was that Walter Haupt released the statement to the press.) The reason they released the story was that they knew civilians had been there...and were aware. The story went around Roswell in twenty minutes.

(Bill now describes the 1993 crash of an alleged UFO at South Haven Park near Brookhaven National Labs: Here's a classic case where there was a crash, where people were turned away from it, the government denied it, the people who were supposed to be there denied it, and it has faded into history. So I can see how that could happen if there were crashes that were scattered.) The difference between [that and] Roswell was that the Government admit the military were unprepared for something like that. It [the govt] had no plans in place for containing the story. The modern UFO age only began two weeks previously. So it made the national headlines because people wanted to know. Was this Russian or German technology? There was a curiosity already out there. Today, the Government and the Air Force position is [that] there are no such things as [UFOs]...there are such things as UFOs but they do not come from another planet. So you have stories like Phoenix [Phoenix Lights, 1997], which is a good case, the one in Texas [Stephenville, Texas, 2008] a few years ago. They just fade away because nothing ever comes of them that is concrete, that you can put your fingers on. The case you just mentioned [Brookhaven], this is the first time I'm hearing about it. It never made news down this way...It seems that even eight UFO crashes, for me, is pushing the limit. But eight in seven years, especially in the south-west, I would have expected someone of a civilian nature to stumble across it [one of the crashes] before the military got there.

(Nancy: What if these crashes are consistently over military bases, test sites, places where...Let's say Roswell happened because of our nuclear capability, it wasn't just a big accident, it was [because] they were checking our capability or they were stuck into [investigating] our radar, some version thereof?) We get that question all the time. If you're coming from Zeta Reticuli or wherever and you're heading for Earth, where would you want to go to check up on things, and our answer is always New Mexico, if it's 1947, and Bill knows the answer, it's because that's where the rocketry is tested, it's where the first atomic bomb was detonated, it's where the nuclear labs are, that's where I would go.

(Bill: Sure. In 1945, supposedly, there were UFOs spotted over Hanford [on the Columbia River in Washington State], where uranium was being enriched for atomic weapons tests and bombs that we dropped on Japan. Nancy: Moving into the seventies.. let's say by now we are doing a lot of stuff with material we retrieved from Roswell, we've begun the modern age of reverse engineering, we're moving farther along, our radar's becoming more sophisticated...Let's say that it's like a honey trap, it's where the UFOs are, so in seven, eight years maybe that's where all the stuff is happening and it's all very private. It's not private industry but it is private. That whole area is very vast and isolated for a reason.) When you have enough data to work with, then you can start to make correlations, conclusions. UFO crashes, at least in my mind, are so infrequent, or have been, that it's tough to make any conclusion as to (a) why it crashed, and (b) why it crashed where it did. That's really difficult, but if there are a lot of alleged crashes... I guess Kevin Randall has at least two books out on that. He rates them as 'most likely' and 'least likely'. I would have to defer to him because I haven't studied all of them like he has, and I think his 'most likely' list comes down to just a very few.

(Bill: Multiplicity of witnesses, witnesses corroborating one another's stories..) The Phoenix Lights had so many witnesses, and the same with Stephenville, but yet I am surprised they have faded [into history], they did not move the phenomenon forward. I thought there would be a bigger reaction than there was because there were so many witnesses that saw something that was truly anomalous in the sky, and it's almost as if, people now... unless you have the [UFO] hardware to show, it's just - 'so what?'

(Nancy: When something big like that happens, I think the government's response is in direct proportion to the fear that goes across the country like a wave. If there's a big fear, the government's very quick to say 'No, it was a weather balloon, it was an [temperature] inversion, it was a...') 'A flight of plovers.' (Yeah. And people want to buy it, they want to say 'Thank God'. And I think the government do that on purpose. I think it's to keep people calm and happy. Because the flip side is...) They also do not want to admit that they're not in control of their own skies. The military mission is to protect us, and if you can't control the area given to you in your mission, then you're not going to get promoted [laughs], and stuff like that. So there are a lot of things going on as far as why they've taken the approach they have. But I always say, they are playing with fire, because who's to say that one will not land on the White House lawn tomorrow? Or land at Yankee Stadium? Something like that? 'Cause they are taking a big chance [that] something like that will not happen.

(Nancy: If you talk to 'deeply weird' people, people who are so deeply into the rabbit hole in this thing that they're not saying [how far in they are], they will tell you that in fact the aliens have made pacts with the government that they've agreed they won't land on the White House lawn if they can abduct people with impunity. Now whether that's a true story or not...) I stay away from that, Nancy, that is definitely not my area. I'm a strict 'nuts and bolts' type investigator.

(What do you do, Tom, when you meet people who are absolutely sincere, and you might know them for years..?) I have met people like that. I met a fellow when I used to run the MUFON meetings in South Eastern Pennsylvania ten [to] fifteen years ago. He was from Oklahoma and was a first hand witness to Bigfoot in Oklahoma [http://www.oklahomabigfoot.org/] and he told me a story that he ran into Bigfoot in an abandoned railroad spur [dead end branch line] in Oklahoma [describes the encounter]. I'm looking at him in the eye when he's telling this and I'm saying 'This fellow is telling me the truth'. At least that's how it looked to me. He never tried to make any big deal out of it, he just said "Well, that's what happened."

(Nancy: We have people they we consider friends and they believe they've been abducted by aliens, in many cases [throughout] their whole lives.) I have just not done enough research on that. Bill knows that the UFO phenomenon is so wide that you have to pick what interests you the most, and for me it's the Roswell case. (Bill: In any episodic event (e.g., serial killings) it's usually the earliest occurrences of that event that usually yield the most evidence closest to the surface, because whoever wants to cover up that event can't go back in time to cover it up. In the Roswell case the government hadn't yet figured out what it wanted to do.) They didn't have their act together, but they do today. They had procedures in place for an atomic accident down in Roswell, 'cause that's where they had the atomic bomb stored...so they implemented what they already knew about how to contain stories, not about UFOs but about an accident - they applied that to the Roswell case. It worked for thirty years, but it's been leaking ever since, and they had to employ thuggish behavior to enforce the silence of the civilians and even some of the military. But it wasn't totally successful in that it leaked for a long time before it even broke with [Major] Jesse Marcel [the head intelligence officer, at Roswell Army Air Field in 1947] thirty years later. This is why we believe Disclosure - which was going to take place when Obama reaches office - IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

(Bill: The one procedure the Army and Air Force had for the Japanese balloon bombs that were coming over [1944-45], according to the folks in the CIA now revealing this, some of these bombs contained biological weapons (WMDs) and the legitimate purpose of the Department of War for keeping these secret was, why would you announce where a Japanese balloon bomb's landing, to tell the Japanese how successful they were and...) To keep sending them over!

(Bill: And there were people in Indiana who were getting diseases based on the biological agents inside these balloon bombs. They [Japanese] were successful in some of their attacks...we didn't know where the Japanese stood on nuclear weapons (they'd been sharing secrets with the Germans)...and the scary thing is, because we allowed newspapers to reveal the locations, they just sent these over in droves and they began to inflict serious civilian casualties. [more discussion]) Don't let them know they've [Japanese] been successful with one because that will encourage them to send more and more.

(Bill: And that story you [Tom] told [about children in Oregon killed by Japanese balloon bombs] was used in training CIA agents about the necessity of cover-ups when not revealing information to the enemy.) You know the old saying: if you want to keep something secret from your enemies, you also have to keep it secret from your friends. (Bill: Exactly. And that's the only procedure the government had in dealing with the Roswell crash.) Yes. They knew the story was out there, and so they had to put out that phony press release about a crash up there near Corona, to take away the focus from the more important part of the crash, which was just north of town. That was never mentioned in the press release, what we call the impact site, where the rest of the ship finally landed. And that was orchestrated from Washington - we suspected it, but Walter Haupt confirmed it. We're still investigating Roswell. [describes further evidence]

(Bill and Nancy discuss Tom's forthcoming book "Beneath the Radar: UFO secrets at Wright-Patterson".)

(Bill: Now, the sixty-four thousand dollar question again, is, if there was material at Wright-Patterson ([previously] Wright Field) all the way back from 1947 forward, where is it now?) That's a good question. We know that the bodies were loaned around. Viper's suggestion was that they were taken to Brookhaven. I've never heard of that as a repository for bodies of that sort, but that's just my opinion. (Bill: I did ask the man who wrote the J. D. Salinger story in a prior issue - whose name is John Augustine - he did say that he was a non-official cover agent in the CIA and that Brookhaven was in fact a repository for UFO material.) [Tom] Well! (Bill: I was stunned when he [Viper?] said "You're on the right trail, but you're gonna get shut down.")

(Bill: What about Eglin Air Force Base, cryogenic chambers there?) There are three Air Force Bases in Florida - Eglin, McGill and Homestead. (Bill: Homestead is where Jackie Gleason said Richard Nixon took him to see the body of the alien.) Yes. We also have witness testimony that some of the wreckage from Roswell was flown to a base in Florida. So if anybody is saying something and it's going on in one of those bases in Florida, I'm not offended by it.

(Bill: ...Jackie Gleason was dead serious about it, there was not one iota of humor on his face, and his wife [Barbara] said that it affected Jackie so seriously it changed his life.) I've located his wife and I've yet to interview her...Jackie was really into UFOs and he had a home in Florida that was shaped like a flying saucer, as I understand it, and he was good friends with Nixon and there are pictures of Nixon and Jackie golfing down there.)

[Tom then describes an incident involving Gordon MacRae, actor [1921-1986], whose wife Sheila claimed on a talk show after he died that he was one of the guards at Wright-Patterson guarding alien bodies on a wooden pallet. Further discussion regarding this and other matters until the show ends.]