Reincarnation - alternative views

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

So, since I have a new thread, I might as well use it. Let's examine some of the problems that produced this new thread.

Intolerance is one, specifically intolerance of opposing viewpoints. This would seem to be contrary to the spirit of Avalon, known for giving those holding opposing views (whistle-blowers) a forum, but I may have misunderstood the true nature of that spirit.

Like anywhere else, once you discover who's tolerent of opposing viewpoints and who's not, it becomes simpler to decide how to proceed.


On a different note if you can find it, "Adventures in Consciousness" by Jane Roberts is a fascinating book.. Basically her read on it is that there is no linear path of incarnation, it's all simultaneous but at different levels of understanding, as there is no time per say. Definately not your run of the mill take on reincarnation.


Cheers,
Fred S.

[manny]

don,t know if this may sound right .
or if its appropiate on this thread.
as i write this minutes pass.
before you know it a hour has passed.
then three.
then a day.
then a week.
a year.
what is time in our lives?
are we not recalling our life from somewhere else?
watching it as a movie.
you.ve heard of the saying..
my life passed before me.
deja vue maybe a glitch in the movie.a quick rerun?

just thinking out of the box

[Hawkwind]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
My point is that humans jump to conclusions that appeal to them (or are the only ones available to them), when in reality the conclusions are just plain wrong. How many times in our history have we done that with religions, attributing real phenomena to gods? Or with science, attributing real phenomena to comfortable paradigms that were flawed? We are still doing it, we just have no simple way of knowing when and where we are doing it. The important thing to be aware of is that we are still doing it!

First, this is an attempt to share information and an opinion, it is not an attempt to "butt heads". Rene Descarte said "I think therefore, I am." is the only thing we can be absolutely sure of. Everything else is to one degree or another based on conjecture. The movie "The Matrix" was a wonderful exposition of that idea. Absolutely everything that Neo thought was real was an illusion, which he was only able to realize once outside it. But as Morpheus points out, what is "real"? What if the world which Morpheus considered real turned out to be just another Matrix? What if this world that most consider "real" is just an illusion? What difference does it make? Both the conditions of our perceived reality and of our consciousness are in a constant state of flux. We form ideas and opinions based on our current perceptions. As conditions and perceptions change we adjust or reformulate our ideas and opinions. Are the perceptions that people have had of previous lives "real" or merely perceived as such? Either way, they are merely mental constructs within the consciousness perceiving them. If the mystics are right there is only one consciousness and what we perceive as time, space, matter, life is an illusion. If so, for whatever reason, the consciousness in me has entered this particular illusion/reality. I find my experience within it more enjoyable and growthful when I interact with the other inhabitants of this illusion/reality with love, compassion and joy. If I someday find out that the whole thing was just a video game, I don't think I will regret having played.

[manny]

vannilla sky
comes to mind
tom cruise movie.

[trenairio]

Posted by Hawkwind (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
My point is that humans jump to conclusions that appeal to them (or are the only ones available to them), when in reality the conclusions are just plain wrong. How many times in our history have we done that with religions, attributing real phenomena to gods? Or with science, attributing real phenomena to comfortable paradigms that were flawed? We are still doing it, we just have no simple way of knowing when and where we are doing it. The important thing to be aware of is that we are still doing it!

First, this is an attempt to share information and an opinion, it is not an attempt to "butt heads". Rene Descarte said "I think therefore, I am." is the only thing we can be absolutely sure of. Everything else is to one degree or another based on conjecture. The movie "The Matrix" was a wonderful exposition of that idea. Absolutely everything that Neo thought was real was an illusion, which he was only able to realize once outside it. But as Morpheus points out, what is "real'? What if the world which Morpheus considered real turned out to be just another Matrix? What if this world that most consider "real" is just an illusion? What difference does it make? Both the conditions of our perceived reality and of our consciousness are in a constant state of flux. We form ideas and opinions based on our current perceptions. As conditions and perceptions change we adjust or reformulate our ideas and opinions. Are the perceptions that people have had of previous lives "real" or merely perceived as such? Either way, they are merely mental constructs within the consciousness perceiving them. If the mystics are right there is only one consciousness and what we perceive as time, space, matter, life is an illusion. If so, for whatever reason, the consciousness in me has entered this particular illusion/reality. I find my experience within it more enjoyable and growthful when I interact with the other inhabitants of this illusion/reality with love, compassion and joy. If I someday find out that the whole thing was just a video game, I don't think I will regret having played.

To paraphrase what Buddha said, "The Reality[ies] of Form is[are] not real at all, for it is always in an undergoing state of change and impermanence."

[king anthony]

Posted by trenairio (here)
To paraphrase what Buddha said, "The Reality[ies] of Form is[are] not real at all, for it is always in an undergoing state of change and impermanence."

Is to speak the words of another not depriving one of original thought!? What if the words of another are deceptions, either by chance or design; would it not perpetuate the said!?

[NancyV]

Reincarnation is usually interpreted as a linear event as in "past lives", but I agree with those who do not see it as linear. There is irrefutable evidence that many people can remember other lives in great detail, details that can often be confirmed and that they had no knowledge of in their present life. Some of the most wonderful memories of other lives are presented by young children. So I am comfortable with the conclusion that memories of other lives are a real and verifiable occurrence.

Most definitions of reincarnation are too limiting, in my opinion. There does not need to be one set definition because there are many ways we may remember other lives. For example, if you either die or leave your body consciously and merge with other beings who have led lives on the earth plane, you acquire all their memories as though they are your own, because merging makes you one being. If you take it to the extreme and consider that we ALL merge when rejoining the Source, then you would be the ONE who lived all the lives that have ever been lived.

I prefer to not limit or define reincarnation in any finite terms, but allow it to encompass many and varied possibilities. That way I don't have to tell someone else their theory is wrong. I could say their theory or definition is one of the many possible explanations for experiences of alternate life memories.

Nancy

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
None of this was an attack against you. The threads are simply about the subjects in the titles. That's all. What I tried to do was to help your desire to understand more.

Thank you for the explanation, Bill. It's greatly appreciated.

This experience has demonstrated to me that I am a bit sensitive about being censored. That was the first thing I "felt", and the emotion was certainly fogging my thinking. When I think about it, I believe it is because censorship is the chain that binds us, and I desperately want to see the mind of humanity freed. Knowledge is so bound up and controlled that I feel like a man that is being denied air, like I'm being smothered sometimes. I just want to breathe, and I believed that Avalon is the sanctuary I was searching for where I could breathe. I just don't want my hopes dashed.

Could you do me a favor? Since the thread was started in my name, would you allow me to rename it? I would like to call it "Reincarnation - alternative views". It's not that I dismiss reincarnation as being impossible, rather I question if our explanations for our experiences are accurate. That's really what I would like to explore, and what I was exploring with my posts in Sepia's thread.

Don't worry nugget, you aren't one of the posters that causes issues on the forum, so I doubt anyone feels a need to censure or censor you.

[3optic]

Posted by manny (here)
vannilla sky
comes to mind
tom cruise movie.

[Visiting an ancient battlefield] "The Carthaginians defending the city were attacked by three Roman legions. The Carthaginians were proud and brave but they couldn't hold. They were massacred. Arab women stripped them of their tunics and their swords and lances. The soldiers lay naked in the sun. Two thousand years ago. I was here."

-George C Scott as General Patton remembers his previous life as Hannibal in the movie 'Patton'

[manny]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
None of this was an attack against you. The threads are simply about the subjects in the titles. That's all. What I tried to do was to help your desire to understand more.

Thank you for the explanation, Bill. It's greatly appreciated.

This experience has demonstrated to me that I am a bit sensitive about being censored. That was the first thing I "felt", and the emotion was certainly fogging my thinking. When I think about it, I believe it is because censorship is the chain that binds us, and I desperately want to see the mind of humanity freed. Knowledge is so bound up and controlled that I feel like a man that is being denied air, like I'm being smothered sometimes. I just want to breathe, and I believed that Avalon is the sanctuary I was searching for where I could breathe. I just don't want my hopes dashed.

Could you do me a favor? Since the thread was started in my name, would you allow me to rename it? I would like to call it "Reincarnation - alternative views". It's not that I dismiss reincarnation as being impossible, rather I question if our explanations for our experiences are accurate. That's really what I would like to explore, and what I was exploring with my posts in Sepia's thread.

Don't worry nugget, you aren't one of the posters that causes issues on the forum, so I doubt anyone feels a need to censure or censor you.

are there people causing issues on this forum?
if there is then share your knowledge,and enlighten them.

people have issues.if one can help .
is that not a brilliant acheivement to self,knowing that you have helped another.
whether they are right or wrong.

[Arrowwind]

Posted by manny (here)
do we activley decide to come back?
and have our memorys wiped.
so we come from source.live our life here on earth,die,return to source,then choose to come back again.

if this is the case what is our mission.there must be a reason us to keep returning.

and if we cannot remember the previous life or lives,then what is the point.

trying to understand

But all is carried within the high self... and those who do remember though hypnosis or meditation show us that we do remember subconconsciously... and many of our behaviors and choices do have a subconscious motivating factor... so it it not that we don't remember it is that we hav not consciously accessed the memory

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by manny (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
None of this was an attack against you. The threads are simply about the subjects in the titles. That's all. What I tried to do was to help your desire to understand more.

Thank you for the explanation, Bill. It's greatly appreciated.

This experience has demonstrated to me that I am a bit sensitive about being censored. That was the first thing I "felt", and the emotion was certainly fogging my thinking. When I think about it, I believe it is because censorship is the chain that binds us, and I desperately want to see the mind of humanity freed. Knowledge is so bound up and controlled that I feel like a man that is being denied air, like I'm being smothered sometimes. I just want to breathe, and I believed that Avalon is the sanctuary I was searching for where I could breathe. I just don't want my hopes dashed.

Could you do me a favor? Since the thread was started in my name, would you allow me to rename it? I would like to call it "Reincarnation - alternative views". It's not that I dismiss reincarnation as being impossible, rather I question if our explanations for our experiences are accurate. That's really what I would like to explore, and what I was exploring with my posts in Sepia's thread.

Don't worry nugget, you aren't one of the posters that causes issues on the forum, so I doubt anyone feels a need to censure or censor you.

are there people causing issues on this forum?
if there is then share your knowledge,and enlighten them.

people have issues.if one can help .
is that not a brilliant acheivement to self,knowing that you have helped another.
whether they are right or wrong.

Yeah, we have a few trolls and such like here.
I am trying to help them, but I am still struggling on figuring out how to get my fist through the vbulleting software.

[Flash]

Hi chicodoodoo,

I would like to show you something I "stole" from another thread that is related with "all starts within". This post explains it 100 times better than I could.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...el-etc.)/page8 post 143

From OnyxKnight thread: My ET contact experiences (discussions/Q&A panel etc.)

"Everything is crucial part of the Multiverse, you included. If you had the ultimate microscopic technology, or the ultimate telescope (macroscopic) technology, whether you zoomed in on yourself, or far away in the distant point in space, you would see after zooming through the preons, the bosons, the 'vibratons' and "strings", you reach a large sub-quantum area of your physio-energetic being, that if you keep going further down in observation, you would notice the outlines of another sea of "dots", which are actually other universes, in which beings of some kind live. Same result if you zoom out there in space, having the most advanced telescope, you would see the edges of our universe, and notice that there are other ones, larger and smaller, situated nearby, probably part of the quantum make up of another being. The Multiverse works in fractals. You are the macroscopic representation of, to your own perception, smaller, mini-universes, and at the same time, a microscopic fractal representation of this entire universe, and other universes out there. An even more microscopic fractal representation if you consider that those universes are sub-quantum representations of something bigger, and most likely, in some way or form, alive, just like you."[/I] ~ Hulma, my contact from Nembus.

The DNA does have a connection to the 'higher self', because all these segments are still parts of one being. In a sense, you would "survive" without a physical body, I mean, further exist, but the 'Higher Self', as a part of the soul/spirit, no. Its our basis to who we are, intelligently put together piles of energetic particles, who grouping in further complexity gain density and weight, and become us.

Everything is a microcosm, and a macrocosm at the same time. The smallest particle, or point seems to be the outline of another universe and this who universe is also an elementary dot, constituting the smallest building blocks of something else. I was a proponent of the whole, interconnectedness thing (as its part of standard spiritual beliefs), but this information really took it to a whole other level.

The Multiverse thus, really is, infinite

This is what I was talking about when I said in another thread that everything starts within, that work from within on yourself, there will be a result outward. Work on a molecule or an atom outward, there will be change within. I just did not have the hard scientific vocabulary. My view or feeling is, I think, far from not seeing the truth, or being brainwash with stupidity.

However, what I truly enjoy with your comments is that you provoke me into thinking and feeling deeper in order to be able to express what I see or to find other adequate descriptions.

Thank to OxyKnight and Hulma his friend.

To the pleasure of sharing diverging points of view with you Chicodoodoo

Editing: forgot about reincarnation: put all the above in a multidimensional, multi time, curved space and time or anything else universe. Put the higher self playing the game and investing itself where it desires. There it is. (Have you ever played the SIMS game? We are the SIMS of GOD or the Higher Self, if you play SIMS, you invest yourself in the caracters, simulatneously or on a time basis, it does not matter, time is often simultaneous even in SIMS)

[king anthony]

In keeping with my post #11 in this thread, I say the following. Read it as a whole and not in part, lest the overall thought be missed.

Reincarnation; if it were true, what does it matter 'who' you once were, as how does it aid you now? Does not this 'need to know' simply satisfy human arrogance!?

If the current human experience is, but a part of a journey (of the 'everlasting' soul/spirit/energy), then why the need to 'cure' with medical and technological advancements!?

Why the need of self-preservation with defensive/offensive measures, including obtaining food and shelter!? For most, leaving this existence by their own deliberate act is not an option, so then what is this inherent need for continuing this moment in 'time' (existence).

Genetic experimentation to excel and exceed the human body's development and potential (such as having a longer life span) is for what purpose!? Would this not simply 'hold one back' from moving forward to the next part of the everlasting journey!?

What significance is this moment in eternity!? What of the tree's everlasting!? It is said, by those with this belief, that forgetting past lives or the eternal soul/spirit/energy is necessary to develop/learn in this place - yet, these same people seek to uncover that which is forgotten.

Such beliefs say that hardships imposed is for the soul/spirit/energy to learn; are not these things created by human beings - now!? If be fact, that these things are created by human beings, then why seek to make this existence (civilization) a better place!?

If asked, most would say they wish for 'love and light' to be felt by all; if it were possible to do, then would this not change the lessons of this experience!?

Is it the body that evolves or the 'ever lasting' soul/spirit/energy, as people of this belief have discussed the progress of both!? Is not maintaining good health, in the place where all are 'now', a moot endeavor!?

Is it not, that those who have need, have satisfied their own thirst by giving themselves meaning through a belief!? Could it be that truth is not bearable and thus need of comfort replaces it!?

I say, a person stands naked, many 'wolves' come, what will save the person? Beliefs/faiths/opinions and other stories give hope and tell these things prevail; I say if true, how many times has it not!? Are not such strategies used to sell a lottery ticket!?

Reincarnation; if it were true, what does it matter who you once were???

[Carmody]

not quite exactly on topic..but when trying to make or state your case to others who may wish to try understanding or believing in all this....a book or two really stand out. This is one of them:

http://www.amazon.com/Big-Book-Near-.../dp/1571745475

[dan33]

Anybody else wants a coffe?[/QUOTE]
...me,...large, please.
I believe in reincarnation, that's all. If someone don't believe in it, I understand.
I think Chicodoodo is straight and honest. He sings soul and i sign pop, but we always met on the backstage.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=l40myDtyaoI

Thanks Chicodoodoo, Sepia and Bill... and all of you.

[truthseekerdan]

Edgar Cayce on Reincarnation

[GOOGLE]163273122724175380#[/GOOGLE]

[Chicodoodoo]

We all assume that our own memories come from our own life experiences. This assumption is part of the foundation of believing in reincarnation.

We also assume that the memories of others come from their life experiences. This assumption is another part of the foundation of believing in reincarnation.

So when we have the memory of others pop up in our own minds, we conclude that we must have had those life experiences in another life as another person.

It makes perfect sense, right? Wrong. The initial assumptions have been contradicted by the conclusion that relies on them. Obviously, our own memories may not come from our own life experiences, and others apparently have this experience as well. So reincarnation may not be the proper explanation for the memory phenomenon that is occurring.

So I’m not saying this “sharing” of memories does not occur. I’m saying that insisting that reincarnation is the explanation for it may be entirely wrong.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
We all assume that our own memories come from our own life experiences. This assumption is part of the foundation of believing in reincarnation.

We also assume that the memories of others come from their life experiences. This assumption is another part of the foundation of believing in reincarnation.

So when we have the memory of others pop up in our own minds, we conclude that we must have had those life experiences in another life as another person.

It makes perfect sense, right? Wrong. The initial assumptions have been contradicted by the conclusion that relies on them. Obviously, our own memories may not come from our own life experiences, and others apparently have this experience as well. So reincarnation may not be the proper explanation for the memory phenomenon that is occurring.

So I’m not saying this “sharing” of memories does not occur. I’m saying that insisting that reincarnation is the explanation for it may be entirely wrong.

Dear Friend -

Please read this account of when I arrived in the West in 1850 from Tibet.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...225#post181225

If this is not someone's past life recall - then whose memories am I picking up and mistaking them for? That person would be 161 years old now.

Occam's Razor: http://science.howstuffworks.com/inn...cams-razor.htm

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
...So when we have the memory of others pop up in our own minds, we conclude that we must have had those life experiences in another life as another person....

So reincarnation may not be the proper explanation for the memory phenomenon that is occurring.

So I’m not saying this “sharing” of memories does not occur. I’m saying that insisting that reincarnation is the explanation for it may be entirely wrong.

That's why I was wondering if YOU feel like you could tell the difference. I feel like I could (but have not had previous life memories to verify it.) In fact, if I can't tell the difference between my own soul's memories and something from the blended 'soup' of other souls' memories, well, then I'd think I had over-analyzed myself and my memories so far as to have no grip on reality at all. You know, like, "Did I really have toast and blackberry jam yesterday morning, or could that be a false-memory from some other being's consciousness?"

Very few people are good at telepathy, and those that are describe it as "fuzzy" and "impressionistic." People recalling past lives recall intimate, specific, vibrant details. These experiences don't seem to be related.

I think one reason that I feel that Michael Newton's book Journey of Souls was the most important book I have read is that it is a synopsis of literally 7,000 people breaking through to memories from time spent between incarnations. That's really critically distinct from past-life memory recall. Does that make sense? Even though the concept of 'dipping into the grand memory pool' theory might tempt you to believe that could be what is happening in past-life regression, when you realize that 7,000 people specifically experienced themselves, from the planning stages of incarnation for this lifetime, through their birth, and into their present life. This cannot be someone else's memory.

Dennis