Reincarnation - alternative views

[RedeZra]

you are not the body as a driver is not the car

you will live on and you will come back and die again

til you get it ; )

[king anthony]

Posted by Aldous (here)
Umm you said... ...I'm not sure why you keep saying that...

Some have understanding of my words, some do not and some remain silent; am I responsible for these!? Your intentions with your posts are clear; I say again, '...if you have further personal issues, please keep them to PMs and not in the thread...'. If my words are not understood, then may I suggest you seek guidance on the matter.

The thread has been derailed; I say, in order for the course that was intended to continue, you may consider ceasing this discussion here and now.

[Gone001]

Posted by king anthony (here)

Posted by Aldous (here)
Umm you said... ...I'm not sure why you keep saying that...

Some have understanding of my words, some do not and some remain silent; am I responsible for these!? Your intentions with your posts are clear; I say again, '...if you have further personal issues, please keep them to PMs and not in the thread...'. If my words are not understood, then may I suggest you seek guidance on the matter.

The thread has been derailed; I say, in order for the course that was intended to continue, you may consider ceasing this discussion here and now.

Lol I understand your words fine and I'm not the one who needs guidance. You think if someone disagrees with you then they must be confused (After all these posts you still don't understand the point I've tried to make). I do not agree with you, it's not that I don't understand, don't insult my intelligence. You keep saying keep it to PM's but then you yourself reply in the thread.

[Feren]

I would like to share with you all, my avalonian friends, The Spirits' Book by Allan Kardec.
Reincarnation is the core issue for me in this stage of my life.
An million invisible events have brought me progressively to this point. There was a decisive moment, a decisive thought that I take as my moral and intelectual principle: the best point of view is the widest one.
The ideas in this book, wether you belief in its spiritual origin or not, amazingly tends to combine with new scientific views on the nature of matter, with the spiritual awakening that many of us forsee and encourage, and, most of all, with the principle of intelectual and moral honesty that I roughly stated above.
Traditional science won't admit that consciousness couldn't possible begin at conception. They need us to be irrelevant.
I'm sure some of you will find it interesting. I hope many more do.

[king anthony]

Posted by Aldous (here)
Lol I understand your words fine...

Obviously not, as you continue here; is there an administrator that can intervene and bring this thread back on course please.

[Gone001]

Posted by king anthony (here)

Posted by Aldous (here)
Lol I understand your words fine...

Obviously not, as you continue here; is there an administrator that can intervene and bring this thread back on course please.

As do you! You've missed every point I've tried to make. You don't need to tattle, I'm done. If you have anything else to say take your own advice and PM it.

[Gone001]

Posted by Constance Neal (here)
What about the idea that all time is simultaneous?

Alright. I think it doesn't work because how would aging work?. Also, If everything was happening at once how is it were always moving forward? Hope that clears things up.

[Chicodoodoo]

Ummm..... Right, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, reincarnation and the idea that there may be other ways to explain phenomena that we ascribe to reincarnation. What if each individual human consciousness is like a cell that makes up an "organism" composed of the collective of every other consciousness? Maybe the memories of each cell sometimes overlap or get mixed via the master consciousness of the "organism". The point is that reincarnation may be our simple-minded way of explaining phenomena that we are unable to comprehend. We compensate by creating explanations using concepts that we do comprehend. Is that not possible, maybe even likely?

[Gone001]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
Ummm..... Right, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, reincarnation and the idea that there may be other ways to explain phenomena that we ascribe to reincarnation. What if each individual human consciousness is like a cell that makes up an "organism" composed of the collective of every other consciousness? Maybe the memories of each cell sometimes overlap or get mixed via the master consciousness of the "organism". The point is that reincarnation may be our simple-minded way of explaining phenomena that we are unable to comprehend. We compensate by creating explanations using concepts that we do comprehend. Is that not possible, maybe even likely?

A lot of people believe in it so I don't think simple minded is the most appropriate term to use. It's not an explanation that was just created it was one put forth after observing countless different persons own experiences and then applying logic. What is it specifically about reincarnation that doesn't work for you? It being 'simple' isn't a reason and I actually don't think it's a simple process at all. I would pose this question too you; Have you ever had any of these memories yourself (no hallucinations are not the same thing)? If you have then what about them makes you lean toward the 'overlapping cell' theory? If not then still, why do you believe your theory is better suited then Reincarnation?

I would also ask this of the genetic memory theorem; How do you explain past memories of being an animal? Some of these memories relate to not just being different people, but being different animals. If we are only remembering things from down the bloodline then how does this work?

[RedeZra]

Posted by Constance Neal (here)
What about the idea that all time is simultaneous?

when Infinite then time space and matter are just illusions

when feeling finite then time space and matter are still just illusions but seem so real

and they are real for all practical intents and purposes

[RedeZra]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
What if each individual human consciousness is like a cell that makes up an "organism" composed of the collective of every other consciousness? Maybe the memories of each cell sometimes overlap or get mixed via the master consciousness of the "organism".

it is possible to pick up and paint pictures from and into other minds

this does not negate reincarnation


where do you think you'll be when the body dies ?

[Constance]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
What if each individual human consciousness is like a cell that makes up an "organism" composed of the collective of every other consciousness? Maybe the memories of each cell sometimes overlap or get mixed via the master consciousness of the "organism".

it is possible to pick up and paint pictures from and into other minds

this does not negate reincarnation


where do you think you'll be when the body dies ?

What is the mind and where do our thoughts come from?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by Constance Neal (here)
What about the idea that all time is simultaneous?

when Infinite then time space and matter are just illusions

when feeling finite then time space and matter are still just illusions but seem so real

and they are real for all practical intents and purposes

So what is "real"?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Aldous (here)

Posted by Constance Neal (here)
What about the idea that all time is simultaneous?

Alright. I think it doesn't work because how would aging work?. Also, If everything was happening at once how is it were always moving forward? Hope that clears things up.

Is everything moving forward or is it just our perception that things are moving forward?

How does aging work?

[RedeZra]

Posted by Constance Neal (here)

What is the mind and where do our thoughts come from?

So what is "real"?

Where does the wind come from ?

I want to know where the thoughts come from too lol


We live together in a system where we influence each other and so thoughts and emotions arise and cease and arise again in a never-ending cycle it seems - just like the weather

the thoughts and emotions that come from God knows where...

We can keep them or let them go but if we keep them they might define us - as the saying goes - 'we are what we think and feel'


I guess thoughts and emotions that we more or less unconsciously collect and keep are like threads that make up a cloth or canvas which conceals Reality but let's us paint our picture of reality instead


What is real is an experience extraordinaire

it's the fruit of a long virtues journey

[Chicodoodoo]

Posted by Aldous (here)
A lot of people believe in it so I don't think simple minded is the most appropriate term to use.

From my perspective, all humans are simple-minded (including me). This is because our brains are not sufficiently powerful to understand the complexities of the universe. Also consider this quote from Amanda Bloom - "An idea does not gain truth as it gains followers."

What is it specifically about reincarnation that doesn't work for you?

Rather than repeat myself, please see post #8 in this thread, as well as posts # 6, 36, 58, 61, 63, 66, 81, and 99.

Have you ever had any of these memories yourself (no hallucinations are not the same thing)?

No.

why do you believe your theory is better suited then Reincarnation?

I don't. It's not my theory either, it's just another alternative explanation on equal footing with reincarnation (meaning just as likely with just as little evidence).

How do you explain past memories of being an animal?

A human is an animal.

If we are only remembering things from down the bloodline then how does this work?

I never said anything about bloodlines.

[RedeZra]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
A human is an animal.

human beings are not animals


if a human thinks he is an animal then he is more likely to act like an animal

but a human being is not an animal even tho many acts as if they were animals


the idea that human beings are animals is not only false but detrimental to spiritual progress


you are not an animal Mr Chicodoodoo but a human being ; )

[king anthony]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
A human is an animal.

human beings are not animals

I say, with thought came arrogance and fear, as the human species sought to be more then what they are. Has it not been same, throughout the ages, that human beings desire to be more then flesh and blood!? To be as the 'gods' and find place by 'their side,' as if it were a right!?

I say, for most, the truth is defeating; yet, there is nothing else that will save. To fail to see what is the hand, is to miss knowing - with no potential for understanding. Thus, limits are made giving way to those who make claim above all - by the side of 'god'.

[king anthony]

Posted by Constance Neal (here)
...What is the mind and where do our thoughts come from... ...Is everything moving forward or is it just our perception that things are moving forward... ...How does aging work?

The mind is a bio-computer and thoughts are processes 'inspired from the internal and external. Change is mistaken for 'forward motion', as if to imply progress and aging is simply part of change.

[Chicodoodoo]

Posted by king anthony (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
A human is an animal.

human beings are not animals

human beings desire to be more then flesh and blood!? To be as the 'gods' and find place by 'their side,' as if it were a right!?

Translation: I think King Anthony is agreeing with me that humans are animals.

For those that think humans are not animals, why do you think so poorly of animals? They are as magnificent as we are. In some ways, they are much more magnificent than we are.

[king anthony]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
Translation: I think King Anthony is agreeing with me that humans are animals.

You get a cookie.

[Gone001]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

Posted by Aldous (here)
A lot of people believe in it so I don't think simple minded is the most appropriate term to use.

From my perspective, all humans are simple-minded (including me). This is because our brains are not sufficiently powerful to understand the complexities of the universe. Also consider this quote from Amanda Bloom - "An idea does not gain truth as it gains followers."

What is it specifically about reincarnation that doesn't work for you?

Rather than repeat myself, please see post #8 in this thread, as well as posts # 6, 36, 58, 61, 63, 66, 81, and 99.

Have you ever had any of these memories yourself (no hallucinations are not the same thing)?

No.

why do you believe your theory is better suited then Reincarnation?

I don't. It's not my theory either, it's just another alternative explanation on equal footing with reincarnation (meaning just as likely with just as little evidence).

How do you explain past memories of being an animal?

A human is an animal.

If we are only remembering things from down the bloodline then how does this work?

I never said anything about bloodlines.

Your right it wasn't bloodlines you were talking about that was someone else (question still stands though pertaining to that view). Your leaning more towards us all being part of the same being and memories maybe overlapping or being picked up through frequency's (that's the gist of it I gather). I ask this then; Why would we be having memories from the past then and not just present day?

You didn't answer my animal question (which is a key argument) and no the human being is not an animal (although ya it can sometimes act like it and I get what your saying). Specifically, let me say something like a dog then, how would that be explained? I also disagree that we're all simple minded. I don't see myself as simple minded and their are many other people I know (some of them on this forum) who I don't find simple minded at all.

I've looked at your posts and I still don't gather what you see wrong with reincarnation. It sounds like your only problems lie with it being a supposed 'simple explanation' and that people jump to conclusions and shouldn't settle on that explanation. Considering you haven't experienced this phenomena for yourself I find it hard to understand how you can label what other people are feeling with such ease. To people who have experienced these memories the alt explanations aren't on equal footing at all.

If someone has had these memories and thinks their is another explanation I would absolutely love to here there story and I mean that sincerely. If someone has already explained one of these experiences here in this thread then please direct me!

Cheers