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Thread: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

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    Avalon Member Koyaanisqatsi's Avatar
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    Default CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    In 1936 American commentator H. L. Mencken wrote:
    The central belief of every moron is that he is the victim of a mysterious conspiracy against his common rights and true deserts. He ascribes all his failure to get on in the world, all of his congenital incapacity and damfoolishness, to the machinations of werewolves assembled in Wall Street, or some other such den of infamy.[23]

    -Psychological origins-
    According to some psychologists, a person who believes in one conspiracy theory tends to believe in others; a person who does not believe in one conspiracy theory tends not to believe another.[24]
    Psychologists believe that the search for meaning is common in conspiracism and the development of conspiracy theories, and may be powerful enough alone to lead to the first formulating of the idea. Once cognized, confirmation bias and avoidance of cognitive dissonance may reinforce the belief. In a context where a conspiracy theory has become popular within a social group, communal reinforcement may equally play a part. Some research carried out at the University of Kent, UK suggests people may be influenced by conspiracy theories without being aware that their attitudes have changed. After reading popular conspiracy theories about the death of Diana, Princess of Wales, participants in this study correctly estimated how much their peers' attitudes had changed, but significantly underestimated how much their own attitudes had changed to become more in favor of the conspiracy theories. The authors conclude that conspiracy theories may therefore have a 'hidden power' to influence people's beliefs.[25]
    Humanistic psychologists argue that even if the cabal behind the conspiracy is almost always perceived as hostile there is, often, still an element of reassurance in it, for conspiracy theorists, in part because it is more consoling to think that complications and upheavals in human affairs, at least, are created by human beings rather than factors beyond human control. Belief in such a cabal is a device for reassuring oneself that certain occurrences are not random, but ordered by a human intelligence. This renders such occurrences comprehensible and potentially controllable. If a cabal can be implicated in a sequence of events, there is always the hope, however tenuous, of being able to break the cabal's power – or joining it and exercising some of that power oneself. Finally, belief in the power of such a cabal is an implicit assertion of human dignity – an often unconscious but necessary affirmation that man is not totally helpless, but is responsible, at least in some measure, for his own destiny.[26]

    This is straight from Wikipedia. I was thrust into a deep introspective state after reading this, Anyone else feel that they may experience this phenomenon ? THOUGHTS?
    "As long as you still view the stars as something above you, you still lack a viewpoint of knowledge" -Fredrich Nietzche

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    I'd also like to add this:

    This thread is not an attack. I want us to really look at why we think the way we do. I personally, DO get something out of my conspiracy beliefs. Some sort of comfort, as silly as that may sound. This doesn't mean I don't really believe them, and doesn't interact with the validity of these conspiracies, which, no doubt are ongoing today.
    Last edited by Koyaanisqatsi; 4th May 2011 at 16:18.
    "As long as you still view the stars as something above you, you still lack a viewpoint of knowledge" -Fredrich Nietzche

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    There are so many conspiracy theories its difficult to keep tabs on what you think is real or not.

    Follow your own path my friend and leave a trail


    Avalons Most Important Thread (Debatable my friend)
    Last edited by The One; 4th May 2011 at 15:38.

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    What arrogance! What department of the government do you work for?

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    Goose fra ba goose fra ba goose fra ba

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    If it looks like a cow, walks like a cow, talks like a cow, smells like a cow, . . .
    It's all about evidence.

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    The article implies that any "conspiracy theory" is nonsense and therefore anyone holding such beliefs is psychologically unbalanced or deluded. I don't tend to agree with that view. Wikipedia was initially a fairly unbiased source of information. That is no longer the case, at least as far as "conspiracy theories" are concerned.

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    Anyone who doubts that they are out to get you ought to download & read this, http://www.coalitionoftheobvious.com...IET_20WARS.pdf, and then check this out, http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm
    Its worth finding out about the 'Frankfurt school' as well...
    But wot do I know as that makes me a moron
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 5th May 2011 at 21:48. Reason: fixed links

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    It must just be a coincidence that many conspiracy theorists tend to be more spiritual than the norm, or have had multiple other-worldly experiences then? (This is not aimed at you btw, koyaanisqatsi, at the theory).

    I think having the veil lifted on one area experientially, has the potential to be more considerate of outlandish material. Until I could physically see the energy around trees and plantlife I didn't believe in auric bodies. Until I physically saw ufo's I was very much on the fence with the existence of sophisticated technology. Until I was able to successfully perform chakra meditation I had no belief in chakras. Until I was attuned I didn't believe in Rieki.

    Until I saw the illuminated torch of BT vans, masonic lodges, the statue of liberty (paris and NY), police stations, conservative party logo etc.......I wasn't convinved of an illuminati.

    It's more a snowball effect of experience, than naivety and lapping up any old tut like a muppet!

    Good thread.

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    Quote Posted by pintorider (here)
    What arrogance! What department of the government do you work for?
    Hey there! Im not some covert agent, look at my post history! Im simply trying to get us all to address the fact that there is a Psychological aspect to conspiracy, or the belief therein. I see I"VE STRUCK A NERVE FOR SOME OF YOU, which is good. Its good to question ourselves. Be not so thin skinned my friends, this IS important to consider given the type of research we do.
    "As long as you still view the stars as something above you, you still lack a viewpoint of knowledge" -Fredrich Nietzche

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    I would consider this excerpt to be the heart of my thread, best capturing my meaning:
    Finally, belief in the power of such a cabal is an implicit assertion of human dignity – an often unconscious but necessary affirmation that man is not totally helpless, but is responsible, at least in some measure, for his own destiny.[26]
    "As long as you still view the stars as something above you, you still lack a viewpoint of knowledge" -Fredrich Nietzche

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    Quote Posted by Some Bloke (here)
    Anyone who doubts that they are out to get you ought to download & read this, http://http://www.coalitionoftheobvi...IET_20WARS.pdf, and then check this out, http://http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm
    Its worth finding out about the 'Frankfurt school' as well...
    But wot do I know as that makes me a moron
    Excellent advice.
    The frankfurt school of marxism is the place that the dirtbags invented ''racism.''
    Guess where they went when the NSDAP came to power on the 30th Jan, 1933?
    America.

    This article that you guys are upset by is one of the types of things they put up to do just that.
    If conspiracies don't exist, why is there the criminal charge of conspiracy to ........... in every jurisdiction?

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    Actually, I think Koyaanisqatsi brings in a valuable tool here. It's good to question everything; the "truth", the "lie" and yes even the "conspiracy". The real truth, i find, tends to lie in the middle of the two extremes.

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    historian Bruce Cumings:
    "But if conspiracies exist, they rarely move history; they make a difference at the margins from time to time, but with the unforeseen consequences of a logic outside the control of their authors: and this is what is wrong with 'conspiracy theory.' History is moved by the broad forces and large structures of human collectivities."[18]
    I don't really believe this to be true (i actually do believe an elite group has long drawn the strings shaping economy and society), HOWEVER, it is fascinating to consider this aspect of the human psyche......
    "As long as you still view the stars as something above you, you still lack a viewpoint of knowledge" -Fredrich Nietzche

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    Quote Posted by Koyaanisqatsi (here)
    historian Bruce Cumings:
    "But if conspiracies exist, they rarely move history; they make a difference at the margins from time to time, but with the unforeseen consequences of a logic outside the control of their authors: and this is what is wrong with 'conspiracy theory.' History is moved by the broad forces and large structures of human collectivities."[18]
    I don't really believe this to be true (i actually do believe an elite group has long drawn the strings shaping economy and society), HOWEVER, it is fascinating to consider this aspect of the human psyche......
    How about the black hand and the archduke of Austria-Hungary in sarajavo in June 1914?
    The bolsheviks?
    Pearl Harbour?
    What a nugget, this is the exact reason I pay little attention to system hacks.
    I bet if I gave him a gps, sextant and a map he couldn't find his arse.

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    My own reflections on how a conspiracy theory begins:
    • You have a number of observations
      • Different people recall what they observed, differently
      • Some people may lie (perhaps unintentionally, perhaps not) about what they observed
    • Different people find different explanations for the observations
    A well-balanced mind will accept the least improbable explanation, as well as that least damaging to their existing worldview. The more unbalanced the mind, the more likely that individual is to accept a more improbable explanation, but still one which agrees with their existing worldview.

    In some cases, the evidence may be such that even a well-balanced mind has no choice but to embrace an explanation that others, not sharing the same information, would find unlikely. And doing so, change its worldview correspondingly.

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    Quote Posted by Koyaanisqatsi (here)
    In 1936 American commentator H. L. Mencken wrote:
    The central belief of every moron is that he is the victim of a mysterious conspiracy against his common rights and true deserts. He ascribes all his failure to get on in the world, all of his congenital incapacity and damfoolishness, to the machinations of werewolves assembled in Wall Street, or some other such den of infamy.[23]

    -Psychological origins-
    According to some psychologists, a person who believes in one conspiracy theory tends to believe in others; a person who does not believe in one conspiracy theory tends not to believe another.[24]
    Psychologists believe that the search for meaning is common in conspiracism and the development of conspiracy theories, and may be powerful enough alone to lead to the first formulating of the idea. Once cognized, confirmation bias and avoidance of cognitive dissonance may reinforce the belief. In a context where a conspiracy theory has become popular within a social group, communal reinforcement may equally play a part. Some research carried out at the University of Kent, UK suggests people may be influenced by conspiracy theories without being aware that their attitudes have changed. After reading popular conspiracy theories about the death of Diana, Princess of Wales, participants in this study correctly estimated how much their peers' attitudes had changed, but significantly underestimated how much their own attitudes had changed to become more in favor of the conspiracy theories. The authors conclude that conspiracy theories may therefore have a 'hidden power' to influence people's beliefs.[25]
    Humanistic psychologists argue that even if the cabal behind the conspiracy is almost always perceived as hostile there is, often, still an element of reassurance in it, for conspiracy theorists, in part because it is more consoling to think that complications and upheavals in human affairs, at least, are created by human beings rather than factors beyond human control. Belief in such a cabal is a device for reassuring oneself that certain occurrences are not random, but ordered by a human intelligence. This renders such occurrences comprehensible and potentially controllable. If a cabal can be implicated in a sequence of events, there is always the hope, however tenuous, of being able to break the cabal's power – or joining it and exercising some of that power oneself. Finally, belief in the power of such a cabal is an implicit assertion of human dignity – an often unconscious but necessary affirmation that man is not totally helpless, but is responsible, at least in some measure, for his own destiny.[26]

    This is straight from Wikipedia. I was thrust into a deep introspective state after reading this, Anyone else feel that they may experience this phenomenon ? THOUGHTS?
    If one is on a journey to the truth, it is impossible not to navigate through the waters of conspiracy. This study explains the psychology undergirding why one embraces or does not embrace conspiracy theories. I don't take issue with the findings. But I would suggest the psychology behind this phenomenon exists to begin with because we live in a world founded on lies and illusion. This is simply a fact.

    "Myth" exists in the mind of the beholder.
    Last edited by T Smith; 4th May 2011 at 16:31.

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    "I know world is a mysterious place, open to coordinated activity in secret places... but I don't believe in conspiracy."
    Cornell West


    One of these days you'll realize most every conspiracy you've ever heard of was true, and probably some you haven't heard of. Then a moment later you'll realize just how screwed you really are. But by then it will be to late.

    If the rest of us would work to succeed at shining the light of transparency on the shadows of secrecy the potential of human kind would rise like a phoenix.
    "I know the world is a mysterious place, open to coordinated activity in secret places, but I don't believe in conspiracy."
    Cornell West

    "Universe rewards thinking. Everyone should try it for themselves at least once. Now would be a good time."
    Clif High

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    Koyaansisqatsi, what is your own believe in this case? And what about the conspiracies that where behind the beginning the World Wars and Vietnam War etc etc? Theories? Those conspiracy (theories) are now general knowledge.
    And I agree with you in order to question his own beliefs. At the same time it's good to question the purposes behind any challenge, even those in Wikipedia. Established science (in this case psychology) mostly works in the interests of their sponsoring groups. It's not independent. Wikipedia doesn't give correct answers in such ideological kind topics. Wikipedia is useful to get knowledge about old railroad-lines or some chemical formula, but if there is any topic which could be used to manipulate somehow your thinking you have no chance to find the r e a l answer. So trust your own inner voice and let your heart sometimes find the answer.
    Those my thoughts

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    Default Re: CONSPIRACISM-Avalons Most Important Thread

    Quote Posted by Herbert (here)
    If it looks like a cow, walks like a cow, talks like a cow, smells like a cow, . . .
    It's all about evidence.
    Those damn talking cows, I knew I couldn't trust them!

    Love and Truth,

    Amenjo

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