Chemtrails don't exist

[Fred259]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
So based on what I've read and what we already know to be true.

Let's put a little intuitive speculation into play. Using our logical intuition and what we already know.

Flouride in the water is a by product of aluminum smelting. Aluminum acts a brain/memory/intelligence depressor. Which is why we find its bi product in our drinking water. Aluminum in the sky is not a naturally occurring state, someone has imposed artificial conditions to put it there. Either through design or accident.

Where does our drinking water come from. It falls from the sky. Cloud condensation.The same place where ALUMINUM is being dumped either by design or accident. In the sky where clouds are. Which through condensation and evaporation eventually result in our ground water (drinking supply)

So while we can contaminate our municipal drinking supplies directly with aluminum byproduct its a bit harder to contaminate individual wells and independent sources of water. So we may take another means to make sure everyone is given an equal dose We may not share the same water supply but we all share the same sky and ultimately the sky is where ALL water comes from through the process of evaporation and condensation.

Spot on…. Scientifically…

Now we need proof that aluminium is being deposited into the atmosphere.

[taurad]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
So based on what I've read and what we already know to be true.

Let's put a little intuitive speculation into play. Using our logical intuition and what we already know.

Flouride in the water is a by product of aluminum smelting. Aluminum acts a brain/memory/intelligence depressor. Which is why we find its bi product in our drinking water. Aluminum in the sky is not a naturally occurring state, someone has imposed artificial conditions to put it there. Either through design or accident.

Where does our drinking water come from. It falls from the sky. Cloud condensation.The same place where ALUMINUM is being dumped either by design or accident. In the sky where clouds are. Which through condensation and evaporation eventually result in our ground water (drinking supply)

So while we can contaminate our municipal drinking supplies directly with aluminum byproduct its a bit harder to contaminate individual wells and independent sources of water. So we may take another means to make sure everyone is given an equal dose We may not share the same water supply but we all share the same sky and ultimately the sky is where ALL water comes from through the process of evaporation and condensation.

Spot on…. Scientifically…

Now we neecomd proof that aluminium is being deposited into the atmosphere.

well, I don't know about "spot on, Scientifically"!
It's one of many crazy hypothesis...if you look closely @ spring water, it
has very little Floride...most of the Floride comes from the evil
geniuses in the medical/pharma and the food industry as a
supplementary poison...

Fred259, what I notice with you is you not having a problem
with a far-fetched hypothesis like this, with no empirical data
backing it, but have a problem with another hypothesis, the
Chemtrail one, which is much closely observed and possible to
roll, considering the vast arsenal, finances and motivation of the
ugenic masterminds

Cheers

[9eagle9]

The very virtue that we have hot jet engines made of aluminum flying all over the sky, for whatever reason nefarious or not, is enough to tell us that Aluminum and its by product is being discharged into the air. There is no question that aluminum is in the air. If a hot aluminum jet engine is in the sky is is most certainly discharging aluminum particles into the sky the same way that aluminum cook ware deposits aluminum particles into your food when you cook with it.

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
So based on what I've read and what we already know to be true.

Let's put a little intuitive speculation into play. Using our logical intuition and what we already know.

Flouride in the water is a by product of aluminum smelting. Aluminum acts a brain/memory/intelligence depressor. Which is why we find its bi product in our drinking water. Aluminum in the sky is not a naturally occurring state, someone has imposed artificial conditions to put it there. Either through design or accident.

Where does our drinking water come from. It falls from the sky. Cloud condensation.The same place where ALUMINUM is being dumped either by design or accident. In the sky where clouds are. Which through condensation and evaporation eventually result in our ground water (drinking supply)

So while we can contaminate our municipal drinking supplies directly with aluminum byproduct its a bit harder to contaminate individual wells and independent sources of water. So we may take another means to make sure everyone is given an equal dose We may not share the same water supply but we all share the same sky and ultimately the sky is where ALL water comes from through the process of evaporation and condensation.

Spot on…. Scientifically…

Now we need proof that aluminium is being deposited into the atmosphere.

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=Calz_Avaretard;212472]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Calz,

Last week you asked what had changed over the last twenty years and I posted a reply. This week you ask the same question and the reply is the same. It doesn’t change by the week. Did you expect a different answer?

Nope. However I did respond to 3 of the 4 and you did not respond in turn (unless I missed it somewhere).

#2 I passed on because I had no idea what you were talking about.

#4 regarding the internet is too vague to respond to.

#1 and #3 were a measure of degree (in my logical application) not a matter for the phenomenon to suddenly appear.

If you can elaborate then please do. I would not have the expertise to confirm or disagree ... perhaps someone else here could.

OK we agree on

1) More passenger so more flights
2) Reduced lateral separation. ie (With modern technology the safety distance between aircraft has been reduced allowing more aircraft into the airspace or airways. Safety is maintained with modern technology) This was done to cope with the increased traffic.
3) Larger Engines. Larger trails. (In the early 1970s* B747 carried 400 passengers with four 40,000lb trust engines. Today the B777 carries 400 passengers with two 115,000lb trust engines.)

• How many times have you read posts where they said “ I remember in the 1970 1980 blue skies. Indeed I agree I remember them as well.

The “turning on and off” is due to changes in the atmosphere.
Even just for a few seconds or just that little ever so small part of the airmass.

So all the times I have seen (for several years now) chemtrails starting when a plane starts crossing over my city then stopping afterwards is due to the atmosphere?

Hmmmm

You bet...

Yes. It’s a living atmosphere a highly complex eco-system. It must be a big city or a hot city…

Inbound solar energy from the sun heats the surface, and this energy is absorbed by the surface. The heat is then radiated out into the atmosphere by convection. Large metropolitan cities will absorb more inbound radiation when compared with a ploughed field.

Heating of the atmosphere

Large Cities Very Good
Open Farmland Good
Ploughed Field Average
Sea & Water Poor


Inbound Earth Heat Gains
short-wave radiation from the sun...............34.7%
a) long-wave radiation from the atmosphere.........65.3%

Outbound Earth Heat Losses
b)Long-wave radiation to the atmosphere...........75.5%
Long-wave radiation to space.................... 4.1%
Evaporation from oceans/lakes/land..............15.6%
Convection and conduction to atmosphere......... 4.8%


Example Mexico City “Urban Heat Island”

There is a marked difference in temperature between the city core and adjacent rural areas. This temperature difference, which increases with city size, is usually referred to as the urban heat island .

In the larger cities over 10,000,000, the mean annual minimum temperature can be as much as 4 degrees F higher than that of the surrounding rural periphery. This difference is much greater in summer than in winter.
The causes for the urban heat island are twofold:

Compared to rural surfaces, city surfaces absorb and store significantly more solar radiation. a)Specifically during the summer months, the buildings, pavement, and concrete of the city absorb and store solar radiation. b)The concreted city surfaces have both great thermal capacity and conductivity, so that heat is stored during the day and released at night. Because of the high water runoff in the city, less of this energy is used for evaporation.

In contrast, the countryside, the presence of evaporation and transpiration results in relatively lower temperatures during the day and night.
Manmade energy produced by industrial, commercial and domestic users.
The presence of pollutants over the city enhances the heat island effect. H2O, CO2, and other pollutants enhance the surface temperature through convection and radiation processes (atmospheric greenhouse effect*).

http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/gl...an_indust.html

Do you have any examples pictures, even just example pictures, lets discuss, checkerboard patterns sound like crossing airways to me.

There are many many examples of this in posted photos and videos. If you have not seen that type of phenomenon then you are either not paying attention or else not being honest.

I just wondered if you had any pictures, we don’t call them checkerboards in the UK or tik tak toe, which I assume is the same thing.

We talked about reduced lateral separation and this is what is causing the checkerboard skies. Essentially aircraft are offsetting 1, 2 5 miles of a known track, with the track on your left. Aircraft in the opposite direction also fly with the track on the left, this is what produces the checkerboard skies…

This is offsetting aircraft computers are handshaking and maintaining separation by a system called TCAS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic...oidance_system

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HBF31B5W_R8

They position the SLOP daily depending on the position of the polar Jetstream. Normally it’s between Scotland and Gander, but can equally end up at Bangor Maine or even further south ie north of Boston.

If they position it over Bangor for example 2,000 aircraft will fly over the city. If the relative humidity is 100% massive contrails will form, and the folks hit the forums with comments like wtf omg Bush is poisoning us. The next day another 2,000 go over and you never hear from them. Why? Because the relative humidity is 80% and no trails will form. So is it Monday Thursday and Sunday plus public holidays and the third Sunday of each month for poisoning and every other day of the month are free. Does this sound normal to you?

Aluminum and Barium is reported where? Do we have any records of this, and I really mean statistics, how many reports, frequency of report, 58,000 flights take place in North America each day so it can’t be that hard to find on the basis of what believed on this forum. Is that unreasonable?

58,000 flights don't dump chemtrials ... is that unreasonable???

I’m saying if in US / Canada they go through 58,000 flights per day we should have more reported sightings of barium.

Are you denying the existance of Aluminum and Barium???

You were all over the Ice thread on chemtrails ... are you suggesting the many links there regarding the metallic deposits are wrong???

The answer is I don’t know. We have reports of aluminum and Barium but how extensive is it? In any one hour over the US in daytime 5,000 flights are in the air so I would have thought this would be a very major problem.

What are the county and city governments doing about this? Do they know? In the UK we have the Environmental protection agency a government department that measure air quality etc. I cant see them allowing this to happen, especially when you get an on the spot fine in the UK for flicking cigarette ash out the car window! Im serious police state UK style.

We don’t seem to have these reports in Europe. What about Aus?

[Fred259]

Posted by taurad (here)

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
So based on what I've read and what we already know to be true.

Let's put a little intuitive speculation into play. Using our logical intuition and what we already know.

Flouride in the water is a by product of aluminum smelting. Aluminum acts a brain/memory/intelligence depressor. Which is why we find its bi product in our drinking water. Aluminum in the sky is not a naturally occurring state, someone has imposed artificial conditions to put it there. Either through design or accident.

Where does our drinking water come from. It falls from the sky. Cloud condensation.The same place where ALUMINUM is being dumped either by design or accident. In the sky where clouds are. Which through condensation and evaporation eventually result in our ground water (drinking supply)

So while we can contaminate our municipal drinking supplies directly with aluminum byproduct its a bit harder to contaminate individual wells and independent sources of water. So we may take another means to make sure everyone is given an equal dose We may not share the same water supply but we all share the same sky and ultimately the sky is where ALL water comes from through the process of evaporation and condensation.

Spot on…. Scientifically…

Now we neecomd proof that aluminium is being deposited into the atmosphere.

well, I don't know about "spot on, Scientifically"!
It's one of many crazy hypothesis...if you look closely @ spring water, it
has very little Floride...most of the Floride comes from the evil
geniuses in the medical/pharma and the food industry as a
supplementary poison...

Fred259, what I notice with you is you not having a problem
with a far-fetched hypothesis like this, with no empirical data
backing it, but have a problem with another hypothesis, the
Chemtrail one, which is much closely observed and possible to
roll, considering the vast arsenal, finances and motivation of the
ugenic masterminds

Cheers

Mmm I don’t think it’s far fetched, I would say that 9eage9 has it on the button. It gets a bit creative towards the end. Essentially 9eagle is talking about convection condensation clouds rain evaporation it’s correct.

However in #96 this needs thought out again, the engines are made from various elements mainly nickel, and titanium.

I don’t know where the aluminium and barium is coming from? I would suggest another source altogether what about the crop dusters.

Maybe your right taurad, where is the evidence in all this. Its beginning to look a bit like Flight 93, you know the one that crashed in Pennsylvania, or was it shot down, it gets worse by the day truth is folks the aircraft is back on lease and has been since 2003.

What about some serious evidence then guys, who supplies all these chemicals, where are the supply contracts, who loads these poisons into the aircraft According to this forum all these aircraft are chemtrailing so huge fleets of aircraft must exist with tanks and pumps and all that whatnot…….

Touch of Class from the olden days for all you who remember the skies in the 1960s and early 1970s.Boeing 707-320C six at anyone time three up three down on the old Kangaroo route Sydney Singapore, Bombay, Muscat, London.

The Aussies owned the route and sorted everything and everyone out. High over Afghanistan close to the Russian border this side of Pakistan the Russian’s set up a powerful navigational transmitter on an island in the Aral Sea causing aircraft to stray and thus a diplomatic incident. The old cobber sitting with his feet on the panel barking out on HF declined air traffic control from the locals who couldn’t speak English, and like the good shepherd led the flock in both directions clear of troubled waters before a final G’day as the curvature swallowed him up. Class alright.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=YE6Z7Extlk8

Qantas B777-300ER basks in the sunshine at the Avalon air show. Powered by two Rolls Royce 80,000ld thrust engines these are the aircraft that are causing monster trails in the skies. At twice the power per wing compared with the B707 above, technology has moved on since the 1960s but what about our minds. This video provides a rare opportunity to appreciate the scale and size of what we see in the skies.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tT5EZ5itYH4

The big daddy of them all GE 90-115B 115,000lbs monster. This is what’s over the Midwest four every hour in each direction. At $20 million aside do you seriously think they are risking this investment while messing around with chemicals and substances and secret wires and pumps? It’s tooth fairy stuff.

Is it not time to consider that just as they scammed us with the Y2K millennium bug, peak oil, swine flu and 9/11 and all the other nonsense this half cocked notion based on lies and deceit is only in place to confuse your mind, scare you and in the fullness of time control you.

[9eagle9]

Titanium requires nickel and aluminum to retain its malleability.

""peak oil, swine flu and 9/11 and all the other nonsense this half cocked notion based on lies and deceit is only in place to confuse your mind, scare you and in the fullness of time control you. ""

Scare us. As far as I'm concerned all this is very interesting but I don't have an emotional reaction to it so it becomes irrelevant. In fact I find some thier assholery brilliant but that doesn't mean I agree with it or I'm frightened by it. But i am aware of it regardless it its true or not. I don't want to close my mind to it simply because I'm not scared of it, or because I don't agree, disagree with it

[Some Bloke]

From what I can see myself , the planes leaving these trails are plain white (using a telescope) no tail or wing markings, ryanair etc leave short trails.
Then there is the problem of trees dying off, I've lost lots of apricot and peach trees, from the top down as in california
Yes we get dust over ftom Africa, but it always comes with the rain, never in a clear sky
Then there are 'mackerel clouds' Hmmmmm.... we always have abdominal pains and headachces when they appear,

[Calz]

Posted by Some Bloke (here)
Attachment 7221From what I can see myself , the planes leaving these trails are plain white (using a telescope) no tail or wing markings, ryanair etc leave short trails.
Then there is the problem of trees dying off, I've lost lots of apricot and peach trees, from the top down as in california
Yes we get dust over ftom Africa, but it always comes with the rain, never in a clear sky
Then there are 'mackerel clouds' Hmmmmm.... we always have abdominal pains and headachces when they appear,

Plausible deniability is now standard operating procedures for the PTB/W.

Chemtrails, HAARP strengthened/induced earthquakes, steering hurricanes, making enormous rain producing cloud systems nearly stationary so flooding can occur.

Nobody in their right mind would believe any of that stuff ... correct???

Never mind the abdominal pains, headaches and respiratory problems that many report after getting dumped on.

Using a telescope to spy on unmarked planes ... ohhh ... people should be arrested for that ... correct???

[taurad]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by taurad (here)

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
So based on what I've read and what we already know to be true.

Let's put a little intuitive speculation into play. Using our logical intuition and what we already know.

Flouride in the water is a by product of aluminum smelting. Aluminum acts a brain/memory/intelligence depressor. Which is why we find its bi product in our drinking water. Aluminum in the sky is not a naturally occurring state, someone has imposed artificial conditions to put it there. Either through design or accident.

Where does our drinking water come from. It falls from the sky. Cloud condensation.The same place where ALUMINUM is being dumped either by design or accident. In the sky where clouds are. Which through condensation and evaporation eventually result in our ground water (drinking supply)

So while we can contaminate our municipal drinking supplies directly with aluminum byproduct its a bit harder to contaminate individual wells and independent sources of water. So we may take another means to make sure everyone is given an equal dose We may not share the same water supply but we all share the same sky and ultimately the sky is where ALL water comes from through the process of evaporation and condensation.

Spot on…. Scientifically…

Now we neecomd proof that aluminium is being deposited into the atmosphere.

well, I don't know about "spot on, Scientifically"!
It's one of many crazy hypothesis...if you look closely @ spring water, it
has very little Floride...most of the Floride comes from the evil
geniuses in the medical/pharma and the food industry as a
supplementary poison...

Fred259, what I notice with you is you not having a problem
with a far-fetched hypothesis like this, with no empirical data
backing it, but have a problem with another hypothesis, the
Chemtrail one, which is much closely observed and possible to
roll, considering the vast arsenal, finances and motivation of the
ugenic masterminds

Cheers

Mmm I don’t think it’s far fetched, I would say that 9eage9 has it on the button. It gets a bit creative towards the end. Essentially 9eagle is talking about convection condensation clouds rain evaporation it’s correct.

However in #96 this needs thought out again, the engines are made from various elements mainly nickel, and titanium.

I don’t know where the aluminium and barium is coming from? I would suggest another source altogether what about the crop dusters.

Maybe your right taurad, where is the evidence in all this. Its beginning to look a bit like Flight 93, you know the one that crashed in Pennsylvania, or was it shot down, it gets worse by the day truth is folks the aircraft is back on lease and has been since 2003.

What about some serious evidence then guys, who supplies all these chemicals, where are the supply contracts, who loads these poisons into the aircraft According to this forum all these aircraft are chemtrailing so huge fleets of aircraft must exist with tanks and pumps and all that whatnot…….

Attachment 7183

Touch of Class from the olden days for all you who remember the skies in the 1960s and early 1970s.Boeing 707-320C six at anyone time three up three down on the old Kangaroo route Sydney Singapore, Bombay, Muscat, London.

The Aussies owned the route and sorted everything and everyone out. High over Afghanistan close to the Russian border this side of Pakistan the Russian’s set up a powerful navigational transmitter on an island in the Aral Sea causing aircraft to stray and thus a diplomatic incident. The old cobber sitting with his feet on the panel barking out on HF declined air traffic control from the locals who couldn’t speak English, and like the good shepherd led the flock in both directions clear of troubled waters before a final G’day as the curvature swallowed him up. Class alright.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=YE6Z7Extlk8

Qantas B777-300ER basks in the sunshine at the Avalon air show. Powered by two Rolls Royce 80,000ld thrust engines these are the aircraft that are causing monster trails in the skies. At twice the power per wing compared with the B707 above, technology has moved on since the 1960s but what about our minds. This video provides a rare opportunity to appreciate the scale and size of what we see in the skies.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tT5EZ5itYH4

The big daddy of them all GE 90-115B 115,000lbs monster. This is what’s over the Midwest four every hour in each direction. At $20 million aside do you seriously think they are risking this investment while messing around with chemicals and substances and secret wires and pumps? It’s tooth fairy stuff.

Is it not time to consider that just as they scammed us with the Y2K millennium bug, peak oil, swine flu and 9/11 and all the other nonsense this half cocked notion based on lies and deceit is only in place to confuse your mind, scare you and in the fullness of time control you.

i think those ARE the right Qs to this complicated issue...the real approach is to back anything up with data...personally for me, the only "data" i have is my studies, my daughter's health behaviour...and then friends'...and then entourage...and @ the end, the world wide web...the further from me the weaker the evidence...but not negligible...it is easy to ignore...but can be fatal

to come back to 9eagle9's case...if we're talking about a consistent layer, able to come down to earth, and cause damage, this has to be a serious input, a significant amount...casual corrosion wont satisfy this thesis...it is too inconsistent, also too scarce...

i don't know what it is, i just know our heath's problems gotta be airborne...as i mentioned before, air is the only uncontrolled variable in our health's formula...there's very knowledgeable health people i know, the only thing suspicious is the air and heavy metals (the later coming ALSO from those suspicious clouds)...

i couldn't care if it is not, i'm after the truth, couldn't care less for agendas...

BUT unless you could prove to me our air is not tempered with, i have all the right to suspect all the worst possible...

why is it difficult to experience the faintest suspicion to governments that create WARS just for the **** of it?

respiratory problems have risen 1 billion %; autism (also blamed on heavy metals) is in fashion; cancers are king (caused also of toxicity of liver and kidneys)

i mean this is a sick planet, no one dies "naturally" any more...everyone departs sick...

i know everyone knows this basic elements around us, but simple explanations are often overlooked nowadays...

by the way, what is that white spray those planes use for commercial advertisings in the sky (see the videos i posted @ the end of page 4)?

cheers

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=taurad;212844][SIZE="1"][QUOTE=Fred259;212736][QUOTE=taurad;212530][QUOTE=Fred259;212496][QUOTE=9eagle9;212478][SIZE="1"]

i think those ARE the right Qs to this complicated issue...the real approach is to back anything up with data...personally for me, the only "data" i have is my studies, my daughter's health behaviour...and then friends'...and then entourage...and @ the end, the world wide web...the further from me the weaker the evidence...but not negligible...it is easy to ignore...but can be fatal.

I agree, real data. The problem is even real data now can be fabricated.

to come back to 9eagle9's case...if we're talking about a consistent layer, able to come down to earth, and cause damage, this has to be a serious input, a significant amount...casual corrosion wont satisfy this thesis...it is too inconsistent, also too scarce...

I agree 9eage9 was right in what she said, but then started to wobble a bit, and try justify aluminium engines which is good, that’s detective work but it’s no really the case here.

i don't know what it is, i just know our heath's problems gotta be airborne...as i mentioned before, air is the only uncontrolled variable in our health's formula...there's very knowledgeable health people i know, the only thing suspicious is the air and heavy metals (the later coming ALSO from those suspicious clouds)...

BUT unless you could prove to me our air is not tempered with, i have all the right to suspect all the worst possible...

If as some would think the government are poisoning the people from the air then vast amounts of aluminium and barium must exist everywhere. It’s ridiculous; we don’t have any evidence of this. What we do have are isolated reports of aluminium /barium and forum members quite correctly wonder what this is. I don’t know? My view would be its maybe the military, they do use aluminum in chaff dispensers all the time mainly for training. I don’t know about Barium, but we do know that they use DU in munitions and scatter them around like confetti?

I agree with you on health problems, Im certain it’s in these fizzy drinks, sodas and food preservatives. Ive noticed bad behavior from our daughter after she drinks these junk fluids. Its not something we do a lot of and so is noticeable.. Sometimes if Im late home rather than prepare something in the kitchen I go and because a “useless eater” as you folks would say. Later during the night I wake up with twitches, Im certain it’s the junk food.

The NWO control the foods chain, sure we know that sure we know that. This week Eric Pickles UK government minister quietly published on the day of the Bin Laden news legislation banning people from growing food in allotments. These are small private gardens set aside in the city used by the people who live in flats or apartments and who want to grow food for themselves. This is no longer allowed.




[

Slightly O/T mods but relevant to the taurad post and compatible with the ethos of Avalon, this is a picture of an African village. They have twelve months food stored in those granaries. The surplus was sold to the government, and all you Canadian folk listen up. Your government, so your taxes under a foreign aid initiative installed a famine disaster early warning system in Malawi. (Canadians are experts at growing food) The surplus grown by the villagers in the picture is sold and stored for twelve months, that is until they know the harvest has been successful the following year. Malawi has sufficient food stocks to feed its people in the Canadian built silos for two years…. always. How much do we have in silos?

Now criminals masquerading as the UN are promoting Monsanto terminator seed, so that they can destroy this good work and slaughter these people. Its mass genocide. They work at all levels and in different ways.The same applies to the food we consume; they just do it in a different way.

Why is it difficult to experience the faintest suspicion to governments that create WARS just for the **** of it?

Governments in the English speaking West ceased to exist years ago.Its an illusion. IMHO

respiratory problems have risen 1 billion %; autism (also blamed on heavy metals) is in fashion; cancers are king (caused also of toxicity of liver and kidneys)

i mean this is a sick planet, no one dies "naturally" any more...everyone departs sick...

i know everyone knows this basic elements around us, but simple explanations are often overlooked nowadays...

I agree Im certain its the food and its supply chain in the west. They don’t have these problems in the developing world.

by the way, what is that white spray those planes use for commercial advertisings in the sky (see the videos i posted @ the end of page 4)?

I don’t know about the white spray, its ridiculous and should be banned, the simplest action is don’t buy the product and tell the company why.

In post 100 however "Some Bloke" mentions white aircraft with no markings.People notice these trails and follow them and then....Oh no, it an unmarked all white plane, the mind plays wonderful tricks, this must be CIA, then.. I must post this on the web, its picked up by dis/mis agents pumped out on the talk shows and becomes the de facto.
No the plane is all white, because the temp is -60C at altitude and its super cooled 100% relative humidity airmass, its probably Emirates Dubai to JFK, its been airborne for a few hours and the whole aircraft is cold soaked with hoar frost especially the underside fuselage, where pressure is greatest.

That’s why its all white folks. Oh Fred259 get real we are fed up with your BS! One moment then: Aussies you just need to believe this, but you Canadians, Americans and Northern Europeans, know don’t you that when you leave your house early in the morning after a night of heavy frost -15 say the red Toyota is cold soaked and is no longer red but has now turned white with … hoar frost…its no different.

It’s all a drip feed distraction brought to you by the NWO.To them you and I are no different to the Africans in that rural village.


http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hoar_Frost
http://www.tpub.com/weather2/5-8.htm

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wVCdVO7QJaE

Boeing Cold Soaking Engineering Trials.

[Realeyes]

Posted by Realeyes (here)
I took these photos at 7am on Sunday 1st May from my garden. I live not far from London and read on Kerry's blog about the UK being bombarded with chemtrails. This is a most unusual sky!?!

Just wondered if these are chemtrails in the photos - or just contrails - anyone know?

Fingers crossed, I hope my photos show up on this post

Attachment 7147

Attachment 7148

Hi everyone,
I have read all the posts that followed after posting the above and I am pretty confused now?!? I was hoping for a simple yes or no answer as my female mind has now been blown away with science on the pros and cons.
I just wanted to add that I have only witnessed these sort of skies a few times in the 13 years of living here - yes we have many planes flying over due to being close to Heathrow - but not leaving such big trails in their path.
Also, since the Japan Earthquake me and my family are suffering from sinus irritation, sore eyes and bad headaches. This is not hayfever (I use to be plagued with this years ago) this is different. And everyone I know in the UK is complaining of this sudden irritation also that leaves us feeling exhausted. Not sure what it is connected to, whether Japan's fallout leaving particles in the sky, chemtrails or some other polution - but polution of some kind.
So from what I have gathered, my photos are seen by a few Avalonians as 'contrails' and many others 'chemtrails' - I guess its up to me to choose. I just know normally when a plane flies over their trail does not hang around for long. We've had very windy days here and still the trails stayed - strange. And yes, we have had a lot of tiny dust particles landing everywhere making my windows and car pretty dirty.
Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts on this subject - much appreciated!

[observer]

Posted by Realeyes (here)

Posted by Realeyes (here)
[....snip]
Just wondered if these are chemtrails in the photos - or just contrails - anyone know?

Fingers crossed, I hope my photos show up on this post

Hi everyone,
I have read all the posts that followed after posting the above and I am pretty confused now?!? I was hoping for a simple yes or no answer as my female mind has now been blown away with science on the pros and cons.
[....snip]

Hi Realeyes,

There are only a few individuals in this thread who are speaking with so much authority. Those individuals are so impassioned with their atmospheric inversion point of view that they are blinded to the evidence. At comment number 45 I posted a link to (what amounts to) overwhelming evidence. At the website that link takes you to, by my latest count, there are 371 links to the evidential trail in this matter of chemtrails. See here:

Posted by observer (here)
Each separate photo on this website (below) is a link to further evidence in this 'chemtrail' story:

http://imageevent.com/firesat/strang...1&m=-1&z=3&x=0

I would challenge any body to refute this evidence.

This argument debunking the chemtrail phenomenon is a waste of the forum's time....

Discern for yourself.

To date, no one has commented on any of the links in that evidential trail....

[Fred259]

Posted by observer (here)

Posted by Realeyes (here)

Posted by Realeyes (here)
[....snip]
Just wondered if these are chemtrails in the photos - or just contrails - anyone know?

Fingers crossed, I hope my photos show up on this post

Hi everyone,
I have read all the posts that followed after posting the above and I am pretty confused now?!? I was hoping for a simple yes or no answer as my female mind has now been blown away with science on the pros and cons.
[....snip]

Hi Realeyes,

There are only a few individuals in this thread who are speaking with so much authority. Those individuals are so impassioned with their atmospheric inversion point of view that they are blinded to the evidence. At comment number 45 I posted a link to (what amounts to) overwhelming evidence. At the website that link takes you to, by my latest count, there are 371 links to the evidential trail in this matter of chemtrails. See here:

Posted by observer (here)
Each separate photo on this website (below) is a link to further evidence in this 'chemtrail' story:

http://imageevent.com/firesat/strang...1&m=-1&z=3&x=0

I would challenge any body to refute this evidence.

This argument debunking the chemtrail phenomenon is a waste of the forum's time....

Discern for yourself.

To date, no one has commented on any of the links in that evidential trail....

Hello Observer.

The website that you posted up, which I appreciate you are just sharing with the forum is grossly irresponsible in my view. They are just trying to frighten you, dont be frightened. It’s almost like saying the oceans are now full of poisons don’t swim in the sea.

Engines

The reasons why contrails are not as you remember them as a child is because engine power output has increased four sometimes five fold. In the 1960s, and1970 engines were 20-30,000 lbs of thrust. Aircraft were fitted with three or four engines. Today power output of 100,000lbs per engine is the norm. General Electric GE manufactures the most powerful engine at around 128,000lbs of thrust five times more powerful than thirty years ago.

If the engines are producing greater power, it logical to assume that they are generating more exhaust. The exhaust is larger and consequently the time for the contrail to dissipate is longer.

Traffic Growth.

Traffic growth has exploded over the last thirty years. But what about airspace and airports have these increased? Indeed they have. Thirty years ago Stanstead Airport in UK was just farmland today its one of Europe’s busiest. Thirty years ago Manchester only had one runway today it has two. This expansion catered for the growth.

Decreased Airspace Spacing.

But what about airspace? How do you build more airspace? You can’t, its impossible.

The solution was found by reducing lateral separation (spacing) between aircraft heading in a constant direction. Therefore they were able to increase the number of aircraft using the same airspace. This means aircraft are closer together, which is why you see these "lines in the sky"

But what about safety? Safety was maintained by new technology which essentially means and in simple terms that the aircraft computers are talking with each other and making sure aircraft A does not enter into aircraft B safety zone. This way they were able to increase the number of flights using the same airspace.

Therefore

1 Bigger and more powerful engines means more exhaust = More Contrails.

2 Reduced spacing to allow for increased traffic= More contrails within a greater volume of sky when compared with thirty years ago.

or

"More powerful engines mean’s more exhaust which takes longer to dissipate. The dissipation process is further thwarted by more aircraft operating in the same airspace causing increased cirrostratus cloud covering".

How do contrails form? They form the same way that clouds form. Documents are enclosed on post 21 providing an explanation of how clouds are formed.

Finally, don’t worry you are not being sprayed from the sky.

[Realeyes]

Hi Fred259 & Observer - Bless you guys for taking the time to reply back to my question.
Fred, I see your logic; I also see around 25 planes an hour in our sky above our house heading towards Heathrow so I have seen many 'contrails' in the 13 years of living here.
Observer, thanks for the link with all the photos - very thought provoking.
The photos I recently took caught my eye because they were different, lingered on a very windy morning and looked totally unlike the usual contrails I see daily.
IMHO I am going to go with my feminine intuition that pulled me out of bed to take the photos that morning - this was something else - dreaded chemtrails! I would have prefered Fred's answer to carry on living a happy life; but my knowingness tells me otherwise and its time for me to awaken to what is really happening in our skies.
Thank you both and everyone else who posted on this subject.

[Fred259]

Posted by Realeyes (here)
Hi Fred259 & Observer - Bless you guys for taking the time to reply back to my question.
Fred, I see your logic; I also see around 25 planes an hour in our sky above our house heading towards Heathrow so I have seen many 'contrails' in the 13 years of living here.
Observer, thanks for the link with all the photos - very thought provoking.
The photos I recently took caught my eye because they were different, lingered on a very windy morning and looked totally unlike the usual contrails I see daily.
IMHO I am going to go with my feminine intuition that pulled me out of bed to take the photos that morning - this was something else - dreaded chemtrails! I would have prefered Fred's answer to carry on living a happy life; but my knowingness tells me otherwise and its time for me to awaken to what is really happening in our skies.

Realeyes… lol..i really wanted to say that Im not really providing an answer or logic.

What has happened here is that something that it totally out of the reach for most humans has been manipulated and twisted for gain and above all control.

It’s not a matter of discussion, and without exception that each and every aircraft or the 25 per hour you refer to in your post does not have any capability to spray chemicals. Its just a matter of fact. You can research at your library speak to lecturers at the local college, university, aircraft engineers, the CAA / FAA Met office and frankly they will think you are nuts, so go gently if you should ask.

You mention in your post dreaded chemtrails and carry on living a happy life and it’s these expressions that make me angry, and I am angry because why should you or anyone have this blight hanging over your life.

Here is a very good video from the Natural History Museum in London all about clouds and how they are formed. Jet trails are no different. Some of these stranger clouds that form and are posted as HAARP or planet zog on the internet are all here, it’s all perfectly natural, but for some unexplained reason some people for reasons know only to themselves prefer to create something to worry about. What is to be gained by that? Why blight your life?

I really do urge you to look into this, but not from the web or if you must from a reputable source, and the reason its important is because these trails are not going to be going away, rather its probable they will increase, so something for you to consider.

http://www.opalexplorenature.org/?q=CloudQuizAndVideo

PS. I need to offer an apology. In a pervious post I mentioned that Cumulonimbus clouds hold about 50,000 tons of water, it turns out its 500,000 tons of water, I knew it was a lot that did surprise me, I forgot a zero, Im getting old.. Sorry..

[T Smith]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by Realeyes (here)
Hi Fred259 & Observer - Bless you guys for taking the time to reply back to my question.
Fred, I see your logic; I also see around 25 planes an hour in our sky above our house heading towards Heathrow so I have seen many 'contrails' in the 13 years of living here.
Observer, thanks for the link with all the photos - very thought provoking.
The photos I recently took caught my eye because they were different, lingered on a very windy morning and looked totally unlike the usual contrails I see daily.
IMHO I am going to go with my feminine intuition that pulled me out of bed to take the photos that morning - this was something else - dreaded chemtrails! I would have prefered Fred's answer to carry on living a happy life; but my knowingness tells me otherwise and its time for me to awaken to what is really happening in our skies.

Realeyes… lol..i really wanted to say that Im not really providing an answer or logic.

What has happened here is that something that it totally out of the reach for most humans has been manipulated and twisted for gain and above all control.

It’s not a matter of discussion, and without exception that each and every aircraft or the 25 per hour you refer to in your post does not have any capability to spray chemicals. Its just a matter of fact. You can research at your library speak to lecturers at the local college, university, aircraft engineers, the CAA / FAA Met office and frankly they will think you are nuts, so go gently if you should ask.

You mention in your post dreaded chemtrails and carry on living a happy life and it’s these expressions that make me angry, and I am angry because why should you or anyone have this blight hanging over your life.

Here is a very good video from the Natural History Museum in London all about clouds and how they are formed. Jet trails are no different. Some of these stranger clouds that form and are posted as HAARP or planet zog on the internet are all here, it’s all perfectly natural, but for some unexplained reason some people for reasons know only to themselves prefer to create something to worry about. What is to be gained by that? Why blight your life?

I really do urge you to look into this, but not from the web or if you must from a reputable source, and the reason its important is because these trails are not going to be going away, rather its probable they will increase, so something for you to consider.

http://www.opalexplorenature.org/?q=CloudQuizAndVideo

PS. I need to offer an apology. In a pervious post I mentioned that Cumulonimbus clouds hold about 50,000 tons of water, it turns out its 500,000 tons of water, I knew it was a lot that did surprise me, I forgot a zero, Im getting old.. Sorry..

Hi Fred,

Let me say at the outset that I appreciate your skepticism. It does us all a bit a good, no matter what our understanding, to be open to any possibility.

That said, I notice your argument tends to focus on contrail formation science. Have you reviewed the sampling and analysis section of carnicom.com? That's a smoking gun, as far I'm concerned. A physical sampling of aerosol salts in so-called "contrails", among many, many other things, is enough to convince me beyond a reasonable doubt.

If you haven't yet reviewed this website -- especially this section -- I highly recommend you do. You may just find yourself at a loss...

Chemtrails are real. The evidence is overwhelming...

[Some Bloke]

Um yeah ; I'm still not convinced one way or the other on this, I have a problem about such a thick hoar frost , as it would affect control surfaces (see all the de-iceing at airports before Christmas ?)
When people say 'jet trails ' they forget this goes back to the 40's and films of B17 s ( thing is the B17 is aprox the same size ,wieght, power as a Lancaster bomber but carries a fraction of the bomb load, so what else were they carrying? )
How thick would frost need to be to cover engine cowls ?
I (inmho) think that there is some real sillyness in this field, like black chem trails and holographic planes ( think about cost of some bog standard plane Vs exotic tech plus hologram )
Not that there aren't back engineered craft out there mind.

[Fred259]

[QUOTE]

Posted by Some Bloke (here)
Attachment 7257Attachment 7256
Um yeah ; I'm still not convinced one way or the other on this, I have a problem about such a thick hoar frost , as it would affect control surfaces (see all the de-iceing at airports before Christmas ?)

Hello Brown Dog. If I may say so your dog has the most loving eyes, he’/she reminds me of Icecold without the dirty nose!

Its not like hoar frost on the ground. The Docs in #013 detail its structure here,

The water vapor turns directly into ice by sublimation forming a white crystalline ice coating which can normally be brushed off. Its not sticking to the aircraft obviously rather the aircrafts enviroment is so cold -60C that the whole fuselage turns white with cold. Cold soaked is a better description. The greater the duration the whiter it looks.

I agree clear ice is dangerous and must be removed as it primarily destroys lift and can as you say effect controls. Horrendously expensive to de-ice 15K for a B757.

When people say 'jet trails ' they forget this goes back to the 40's and films of B17 s ( thing is the B17 is aprox the same size ,wieght, power as a Lancaster bomber but carries a fraction of the bomb load, so what else were they carrying? )

Fuel. Check the difference in endurance, calculate the fuel weight at 8lbs/us gallon.

How thick would frost need to be to cover engine cowls ?

The leading edge of wings and engines are heated by hot bleed air from the engines as part of the anti-icing system so they never ice over. The same hot engine air +650C is fed to the cabin (that woke you up) however it goes through a heat exchanger, and is blasted with a coolant (Freon) before coming out the vents.

I (inmho) think that there is some real sillyness in this field, like black chem trails and holographic planes ( think about cost of some bog standard plane Vs exotic tech plus hologram )
Not that there aren't back engineered craft out there mind.

Ive seen these black orbs and strange looking small clouds. They are just small parcels of air being disturbed by dissipating wake vortices. The size and duration is proportional to speed..

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uy0hgG2pkUs

So come on Brown dog, The top pic I would estimate at 12-15,000ft where relative humidity is less than 100% so no trails.Temp might be around -10C

Bottom pic stable atmosphere Relative humidity less than 100% that trail was away in 5 minutes I would say.

http://planefinder.net/ Check this site 09.00 tomorrow

BD/ Check all that traffic over Novia Scotia will be in Europe from 06.00 onwards.

Around 10.00 check Scotland N Ireland the same will be going West towards the US.

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=T Smith;213766]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by Realeyes (here)
Hi Fred259 & Observer - Bless you guys for taking the time to reply back to my question.
Fred, I see your logic; I also see around 25 planes an hour in our sky above our house heading towards Heathrow so I have seen many 'contrails' in the 13 years of living here.
Observer, thanks for the link with all the photos - very thought provoking.
The photos I recently took caught my eye because they were different, lingered on a very windy morning and looked totally unlike the usual contrails I see daily.
IMHO I am going to go with my feminine intuition that pulled me out of bed to take the photos that morning - this was something else - dreaded chemtrails! I would have prefered Fred's answer to carry on living a happy life; but my knowingness tells me otherwise and its time for me to awaken to what is really happening in our skies.

Realeyes… lol..i really wanted to say that Im not really providing an answer or logic.

What has happened here is that something that it totally out of the reach for most humans has been manipulated and twisted for gain and above all control.

It’s not a matter of discussion, and without exception that each and every aircraft or the 25 per hour you refer to in your post does not have any capability to spray chemicals. Its just a matter of fact. You can research at your library speak to lecturers at the local college, university, aircraft engineers, the CAA / FAA Met office and frankly they will think you are nuts, so go gently if you should ask.

You mention in your post dreaded chemtrails and carry on living a happy life and it’s these expressions that make me angry, and I am angry because why should you or anyone have this blight hanging over your life.

Here is a very good video from the Natural History Museum in London all about clouds and how they are formed. Jet trails are no different. Some of these stranger clouds that form and are posted as HAARP or planet zog on the internet are all here, it’s all perfectly natural, but for some unexplained reason some people for reasons know only to themselves prefer to create something to worry about. What is to be gained by that? Why blight your life?

I really do urge you to look into this, but not from the web or if you must from a reputable source, and the reason its important is because these trails are not going to be going away, rather its probable they will increase, so something for you to consider.

http://www.opalexplorenature.org/?q=CloudQuizAndVideo

PS. I need to offer an apology. In a pervious post I mentioned that Cumulonimbus clouds hold about 50,000 tons of water, it turns out its 500,000 tons of water, I knew it was a lot that did surprise me, I forgot a zero, Im getting old.. Sorry..

Hi Fred,

Let me say at the outset that I appreciate your skepticism. It does us all a bit a good, no matter what our understanding, to be open to any possibility.

Hi Smithy,

Its not skepticism Honestly its complete balderdash. Its rubbish completely contrary to any training I have received over the last 34 years, I might add the last course being four months ago so Im old and worn out but up to speed with developments you could say.

That said, I notice your argument tends to focus on contrail formation science.

Have you reviewed the sampling and analysis section of carnicom.com? That's a smoking gun, as far I'm concerned. A physical sampling of aerosol salts in so-called "contrails", among many, many other things, is enough to convince me beyond a reasonable doubt.

Absolutely. Yes it’s a science but its also a reality, by that I mane its not theory. Im sure you understand the difference.

If you haven't yet reviewed this website -- especially this section -- I highly recommend you do. You may just find yourself at a loss...

I shall be entirely honest with you here Smithy. I visited the Carnicom site around a year ago when I noticed this spreading chemtrail phenomenon on alternative web sites. I should say that these are less reputable sites and so it didn’t surprise me to see this whatnot on these sites. Frankly Im a bit disturbed to see it on PA. Lets be honest Avalon is son of Camelot which established a formidable reputation, and I guess I just didn’t expect to see this material on Avalon.

What I did see on Carnicom then was and is completely different to the training I and tens of thousands of others have received, and so I dismissed him as a disinformation agent.

This evening you are inviting me to visit the site again and I have done so for around ninety minutes.

Specifically relating to the salts and the soil samples they did in New Mexico, I am unable to agree or disagree. On balance I would probably agree with his analysis. I have no other proof to the contrary. However I would say that many other activities go on in and around New Mexico, and it’s also a very arid and desert enviroment. But let’s agree his findings are correct.

Can we now have a trail in New York State, New England, New Orleans, and let’s compare. The fact that his findings indicate high level of elements doesn’t mean they have come from spraying aircraft does it.

I then decided to look at other areas of his site, and I have seriously severe issues with what he says. Ninty percent is correct, I would agree with however what he does is change key critical words on scientific fact or make statements to the contrary.

Here are some examples.

Carnicom.

A preliminary model has been developed to estimate the length of time that is
required for a contrail to dissipate. It is assumed within this
discussion that the contrail is composed of water vapor (per
historical definition). The model developed agrees extremely well
with the historical behavior and observation of contrails. The model
is not intended to encompass all variables that may be in effect, but
it does model reasonably well the expected behavior of water at
flight altitudes. Any errors will be corrected if and as they are
brought to my attention. It will be noted that this model is not a
function of relative humidity, as no basis from thermodynamics
has yet been established for it's inclusion. Any model based upon
the premise of "mixing" as the primary mechanism for dissipation
requires quantification to receive consideration. Cloud formation and the
introduction of aerosol particles to assist in their formation is an
entirely different discussion which is to be examined separately.
The conclusions that result from the study of this model are several:

Fred.

Items marked in black.

Without exception Relative Humidity is fundamental to every aspect of life on this Planet Earth. It can never be discounted. Any engineer or scientist will tell you that.

Mixing is a fundamental concept of Relative Humidity.

“Cloud formation and the introduction of aerosol particles to assist in their formation”. Since when have aerosol particles been required in cloud formation?

Carnicom

Contrails composed of water vapor routinely dissipate, as the physics and
chemistry of this model will demonstrate. As a separate and distinct
set of events, clouds may form if temperature, relative humidity, and
aerosol conditions are favorable to their development. If "contrails"
by appearance transform into "clouds", it can be concluded that the
material of composition is not water vapor.Fred

This is 100% disinformation. Red Flag Red Flag!

Aerosols are not required to form clouds.(This is what he wants you to think)



This Carnicom statement is complete balderdash.

If "contrails” by appearance transform into "clouds", it can be concluded that the
material of composition is not water vapor. (Please read it again).

What!

It’s an undeniable fact that clouds are formed by water vapor held in a gaseous state in the atmosphere condensing into water. Above the freezing level the water turns to ice (ie cirrus cloud).

Its an undeniable fact that if an aircraft passes through this atmosphere gasses from in the combustion chamber are directed via nozzle guide vanes (NGVs) onto the turbines (like a water wheel) at circa 2,500ft/sec and 1200C before passing through another set and vanes and out into the atmosphere via a convergent duct.

The “Gas Laws” are rock solid fundamental science and state that if a fluid passes through a convergent duct at speed the temp and pressure will decrease and the velocity increase. This is what we want isn’t it velocity or thrust. Shock cooling and a massive reduction of pressure results in water. This water turns to ice crystals instantly and forms contrails provided the relative humidity is 100% or close to 100%The contrails dissipate into cirrus clouds.

Sir Frank Whittle & Sir Stanley Hooker
Rolls Royce Derby England.

These undeniable facts are the fundamentals of jet propulsion invented by Sir Frank Whittle the inventor of the Jet Engine and developed by “the maestro himself” on the right Sir Stanley Hooker.

Hooker a brilliant mathematician and engineer left Cambridge aged 23 and entered Rolls Royce Derby England where he developed the supercharger that went on the front end of the Merlin engine that powered the Spitfire that won the war.

He then went onto a brilliant career developing the Olympus engine that powered Concorde, the Pegasus VTOL engine that powered the Harrier before developing the Rolls Royce RB 211 high bypass ratio axial flow gas turbine engine that powered the B747 Jumbo Jet in the early 1970s.

This engine still powers 40% of the world’s airlines as well as the industrial version that pumps oil and gas over vast distances on four continents of the world.

Hooker would turn in his grave should I fail to defend his masterpiece of an invention and on the basis T Smith you forced me to follow up on the Cliff Carnicom site, and this utter nonsense that he writes I am calling him out as a disinformation agent and source of confusion concern and anxiety and an abomination to mankind.


However it gets worse.

Carnicom

The conditions under consideration show that the ice crystals
within a contrail can warm to the melting point and subsequently melt
with the heat provided by solar radiation.

Fred.

Complete balderdash. What he is saying is that ice crystals at 35,000ft are melted to 0 degrees by inbound solar radiation. Big Big Red Flag! That is incorrect. Further if this were remotely possible with the temperature at this altitude being circa -50C and, given air warms as it descends the temp on the ground would be a whopping 105degreesC assuming standard lapse rate of 3Cper000 ft. Evidenced here International Standard Atmosphere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...ard_Atmosphere

Carnicom.

As demonstrated both by historical observation and this model, the
time expected for contrail dissipation is relatively short, e.g., 2
minutes or less. This assumes the contrail is composed essentially
of water vapor, per the classic definition (condensed trail).

Fred.

No. Clouds and contrails are formed the same way. If the contrail dissipates in 2 minutes so will the cloud. If the clouds last for 4 hours so will the contrails, but they will spread out into cirrus or cirrostratus. (Covering)


Carnicom.

The rate of contrail dissipation is highly dependent upon the
the size of the ice crystal particles and the amount of solar radiation.
Dependence upon relative humidity is not evident. 'Cloud'
formation from aircraft, should it occur, is dependent primarily upon
the temperature, the relative humidity, and the type and size of
aerosol particles(nuclei) that are introduced.

Fred.

No No. I would love to meet this guy. It’s nothing to do with solar radiation. It all relates to relative humidity which he ignores. What does he mean by relative humidity not being evident it exists throughout the world, and should it ever not exist mankind will also cease to exist.

Then he says that ‘Cloud' formation from aircraft, should it occur, is dependent primarily upon the temperature, the relative humidity, and the type and size of
aerosol particles(nuclei) that are introduced.

So this is the spraying he has us talking about. So call your local airline and tell them your not flying till they stop spraying, call the chief engineer and ask him where these tanks pipes and pumps are, because I have been flying for thirty four years and I tell you for sure hand on heart and bible they don’t exist. If they do exist produce the manuals and electrical diagrams that power the pumps. Its complete rubbish, this man should be jailed.

Carnicom.

One of the accomplishments from this most current analysis is that generalized statements regarding the effect of humidity upon the duration of vapor trails can no longer be accepted without further definition. It can be seen that the effects of humidity upon vapor trail evaporation rates are generally insignificant and minor within the historical reference frame of human experience, physics, chemistry, meteorology and common sense observation.

Fred.

Utter rubbish, he is trying to down play the importance of relative humidity. Without relative humidity in the atmosphere clouds wouldn’t form , without clouds you have no rain and without rain you have no crops. Therefore human life is unsustainable.


Carnicom.

The basic form of the contrail dissipation model, based upon the
chemistry, mathematics and physics of thermodynamics is as follows:

Time for dissipation = (mass of water crystal * (Q + heat of fusion))
/ power

where Q is the amount of heat required to increase the temperature of
a substance (ice).

or

t(sec) = (m (kg) * Ht(kj/kg)) / P(watts)

where t is the time required for contrail
dissipation(transformation), in seconds, m is the mass of the ice
crystal in kilograms, Ht is the heat of transformation of ice in
kilojoules per kilogram, and P is the power applied to the system in
watts.


Fred.

I agree with this, however this is not Carnicorn formula it was probably put together by some of the early engineers and scientists. I don’t agree with this increase in temperature, I think he has twisted the words or done something.

The formula is right, essentially the greater the amount of water vapor from the engine the longer it’s going to take to dissipate. He talks about heat, and is confusing you or tricking you into thinking of solar heat, its not that heat at all, its latent heat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat


This man is a scoundrel Im afraid and it’s obvious this is where all this misinformation is coming from.

I do notice that he spends some time on the Alex Jones show and this needs to be noted.

[T Smith]

Posted by Fred259 (here)
I do notice that he spends some time on the Alex Jones show and this needs to be noted.

I wasn't aware Clifford Carnicom had appeared on Alex Jones... but what's the connection? Are you implying Alex Jones is a disinformation agent as well?