The sensitivity of language and people when describing race-related issues

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by sepia (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)
sid, you've derailed this thread long enough. Give it up.

"Giving it up" is probably not the right expression.

Rob - you made many people think - that's probably the best result possible -

the seed is put into the ground - it takes time to grow.

Maybe it's the right moment to brush the dust from the clothes and leave the battleground.

I hope you all find peace in your hearts.

Love, Sepia

Its ok, let them attack me, at least they get it out of their systems.
THEN we can actually figure out what is going on.
We might even figure out what we can do to fix things.

Posted by Karma Ninja (here)
My post was definitely NOT what you were talking about. I disagree with your motives and intentions but I support your right to voice them.

You missed the point I was trying to make. The decision of why to move on doesn't have to be mutually agreed upon by both sides. It must simply be wanted by both sides. The two disagreeing sides must agree that moving on is what is needed. My family decided to forgive past transgressions and my parents marriage took place 20 years before the Canadian government agreed to apologize. Our decision was made unilaterally. The apology was not needed but it was accepted. It really did make the healing and moving on a lot easier.

Just because you see the history of the land of Australia as none of your doing does not mean you are free from the blame others might feel. Nor does it make you responsible. What I made a point of saying was if you want to be part of the solution it would help to acknowledge the past. The shame you might feel does not come from being a white person in Australia, but rather from being a human in a world that can be so cruel. This is what could drive you to help your country heal properly. This is what could help our world heal. We see our mistakes in the past and we vow to correct them. You were not there for the past but you might sit idly as more crimes are committed in the present. Trust me...one just happened while I wrote this.

My shame is not from anything I did or my family did. I am part Asian and White but I am all Canadian! Honestly in the end "being Canadian' does not mean as much to me as it used to since I am more of a 'one world' kind of thinker now. I bear no specific responsibility for what happened but I carry the memories in my heart.

This "they" you refer to does not control me to do this or else "they" would be failing as there are still white supremacists and black supremacists and Jew Haters and Muslim haters all over the world. There are haters everywhere. All of these mentalities are flawed in my opinion but their holders are not following what "they" want them to do. If "they" were using this supposed "racism/guilt paradigm" than "they" would be failing miserably. This is what you use to justify your thinking and all that is fine. Please don't lump me together with that mentality. I don't think "they" would be pleased!

As well since my beliefs are contrary to what 'they' want I must be on the right path. You used the term 'divide and conquer' in one of your posts and I used it recently as well. It is a tactic of war. I want people to get together against our oppressors not remain divided. Respectfully...

Peace is the goal, love is the chariot that gets you there!

Are you sure that you know what my motives and intentions are?
How can I carry blame for something I had nothing to do with?
I agree about acknowledging the past, no worries there, it is the blame part I find unacceptable.
Peace is indeed the goal, yet all we have in the thread is fighting.
Interesting, no?

Posted by Chinaski (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
So the solution to the problem is shoot the messenger?
Interesting.

it seems the messenger is the only one with the problem here.

In your opinion, maybe.
I would say ALL of us have this problem, as we are part of the whole, no?

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)
sid, you've derailed this thread long enough. Give it up.

....

My ass squeaks when I walk.

...

Actually no; he's not de-railing this thread. This thread, if you look at the subject of the thread, is exactly for this purpose.

As for your arse squeaking... is that a white attribute? I've not heard that one before.

Thanks for your input on this.
I wonder what the goals of some of the other posters in this thread are?
I have put mine up on the table.

[MariaDine]

« ! am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world.” - Socrates

[sepia]

Posted by Chinaski (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
So the solution to the problem is shoot the messenger?
Interesting.

it seems the messenger is the only one with the problem here.

Sorry to be sharp here: You have no idea what you are talking about.

Sepia

[Davidallany]

it seems the messenger is the only one with the problem here.

I have a problem with us continuously attacking members and rekindling dead thoughts, Lord Sidious is not the only one with a problem here, I, stand by him. We should all stand by each other and support each other, blaming, and stoning doesn't help. Come now let's unite.

[East Sun]

I never did understand anyone demanding an apology.
If someone is forced into apologizing is it actually a real apology?

I can even see someone refusing to make an apology just because someone demanded it.

Because, if someone feels that they should apologize, they will.
Just my 2cents.

[Mike]

Posted by sepia (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
So the solution to the problem is shoot the messenger?
Interesting.

it seems the messenger is the only one with the problem here.

Sorry to be sharp here: You have no idea what you are talking about.

Sepia

correction then: 2 people have a problem here

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by East Sun (here)
I never did understand anyone demanding an apology.
If someone is forced into apologizing is it actually a real apology?

I can even see someone refusing to make an apology just because someone demanded it.

Because, if someone feels that they should apologize, they will.
Just my 2cents.

What you say is true, unless you are trying to point out an issue and trying to get the one you want the apology from to think about the why.

[sepia]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Its ok, let them attack me, at least they get it out of their systems.
THEN we can actually figure out what is going on.
We might even figure out what we can do to fix things.

...and this is strongest love manifested...

I hope this is understood by the readers of this thread.

Sepia

[Dennis Leahy]

OK, here's a thought, Rob. Your reaction to Bill's comment made you think Bill's comment was a reaction to divisive programming handed down from tptb.

What if you drop that piece. Just flat-out drop it, and go straight to the track about what you see as the false or phony paradigm of racism - and that what you see happening is really economic division, not based at all on skin color/race. If you'll go there, I think you can make your point, but if this stays blended with the precipitating words that triggered this conversation, I think it will remain mired.

Dennis

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
OK, here's a thought, Rob. Your reaction to Bill's comment made you think Bill's comment was a reaction to divisive programming handed down from tptb.

What if you drop that piece. Just flat-out drop it, and go straight to the track about what you see as the false or phony paradigm of racism - and that what you see happening is really economic division, not based at all on skin color/race. If you'll go there, I think you can make your point, but if this stays blended with the precipitating words that triggered this conversation, I think it will remain mired.

Dennis

I am going there Dennis, but the time isn't right yet.
They need to vent some more.
Then they will be ready to let go of the rope and just be.
Let them keep kicking at me, they can't do anything except let go of their conscious selves.
And that is part of what they need.

[HORIZONS]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
it seems the messenger is the only one with the problem here.

I disagree! But you seem to be having a problem with this (?) Just an observation - not an attack.

[Karma Ninja]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

You said "Are you sure that you know what my motives and intentions are?
How can I carry blame for something I had nothing to do with?
I agree about acknowledging the past, no worries there, it is the blame part I find unacceptable.
Peace is indeed the goal, yet all we have in the thread is fighting.
Interesting, no?

Thanks for your input on this.
I wonder what the goals of some of the other posters in this thread are?
I have put mine up on the table."

I don't pretend to know what your motives or intentions are on a deep level or by using any special powers, I just read your posts. As you state just below your response to me...you have put yours on the table. The detox, the lessons, etc...

The blame I mention is directed towards you (unfairly I should add) by others. You can carry a shame...or not. Your choice completely. My feelings on the solution are my own and you don't need to adopt them.

I also don't want it to seem like I am fighting with you as that is not my intention.

At his point I am going to walk away from this discussion for fear of having more of comments misinterpreted.

Peace!

[gigha]

I have to say Dennis you do look good in red. sorry off topic

Just a comment on Dennis becoming a moderator.

[MariaDine]

«Lord, make me an instrument of your peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is doubt, faith. Where there is despair, hope. Where there is darkness, light. Where there is sadness, joy. O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console; to be understood, as to understand; to be loved, as to love. For it is in giving that we receive. It is in pardoning that we are pardoned, and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life. Amen.

M_ _ _ _ ! Avalonian debates are giving me headaches and making me start to sound like an old nun and I'm not even catholic ...

Namasté

[Davidallany]

I have to say Dennis you do look good in red. sorry off topic

I love the guitar and the smile.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Karma Ninja (here)
I don't pretend to know what your motives or intentions are on a deep level or by using any special powers, I just read your posts. As you state just below your response to me...you have put yours on the table. The detox, the lessons, etc...

The blame I mention is directed towards you (unfairly I should add) by others. You can carry a shame...or not. Your choice completely. My feelings on the solution are my own and you don't need to adopt them.

I also don't want it to seem like I am fighting with you as that is not my intention.

At his point I am going to walk away from this discussion for fear of having more of comments misinterpreted.

Peace!

NO.
No need to walk away, I didn't think you were attacking me or anything.
I wasn't sure what you were trying to tell me, that is all.
We all have a part to play here if avalon is to move forward.
We can be one of two things, part of the problem or part of the solution.
I have to be part of the problem, so that we can all be part of the solution.
Some of us are being too lazy to think and taking the easy way out.
No solutions there.

[astrid]

"What we write/say and what we mean can be very different"

Yes, i know that only too well , and i often check to make sure the message i'm trying to convey is the messaged received.

But also you have to consider also the filters we all have that we view things through.....

Sid , with all due respect , do you think it's possible that you were projecting your personal fliters onto something that

most of us seem to understand clearly??

yes or no???

A

[Mike]

Posted by HORIZONS (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
it seems the messenger is the only one with the problem here.

I disagree! But you seem to be having a problem with this (?) Just an observation - not an attack.

the "problem" i was referring to was the reaction to Bill's post. its completely contrived and inane, and serves no purpose other than to bring attention to Sidious and his alleged "lesson of the day". do i have a problem with it? yeah, i guess i do.

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
OK, here's a thought, Rob. Your reaction to Bill's comment made you think Bill's comment was a reaction to divisive programming handed down from tptb.

What if you drop that piece. Just flat-out drop it, and go straight to the track about what you see as the false or phony paradigm of racism - and that what you see happening is really economic division, not based at all on skin color/race. If you'll go there, I think you can make your point, but if this stays blended with the precipitating words that triggered this conversation, I think it will remain mired.

Dennis

I am going there Dennis, but the time isn't right yet.
They need to vent some more.
Then they will be ready to let go of the rope and just be.
Let them keep kicking at me, they can't do anything except let go of their conscious selves.
And that is part of what they need.

Take the lead on this. The thread is quicksand swirled with chocolate. I cannot see any reason to stay in the quicksand with a spoon trying to get the sweet stuff. You have a concept, a message, an idea about racism programming and it can stand on its own. There is nothing to gain by insisting on tying this to the words that precipitated the thought - just go with the thought. No one needs any kicking. Just take the lead, with clarity,

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Rob to the podium. He'd like to provide his insight into the topic of racism programming. Take it away Rob:

Dennis

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by astrid (here)
"What we write/say and what we mean can be very different"

Yes, i know that only too well , and i often check to make sure the message i'm trying to convey is the messaged received.

But also you have to consider also the filters we all have that we view things through.....

Sid , with all due respect , do you think it's possible that you were projecting your personal fliters onto something that

most of us seem to understand clearly??

yes or no???

A

Of course it is possible.
And if you read my posts, I said I knew what he meant, no?