The sensitivity of language and people when describing race-related issues

[loveandgratitude]

Important -Peoples - Keep in the centre of space because things are getting really weird on the planet at the moment and we can go for a spin if we do not stayed centered.

Chaos distracts us from our power. Time is of the essence.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Chinaski (here)

Posted by HORIZONS (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
it seems the messenger is the only one with the problem here.

I disagree! But you seem to be having a problem with this (?) Just an observation - not an attack.

the "problem" i was referring to was the reaction to Bill's post. its completely contrived and inane, and serves no purpose other than to bring attention to Sidious and his alleged "lesson of the day". do i have a problem with it? yeah, i guess i do.

You make a lot of assumptions in one post.
In case you didn't realise it, I don't need or want ''attention'' but I do want some healing.
Genuine healing, not two faced posts like some did before.
Anything I have to say to bill I say here, to his face.
I don't go behind his back where he can't respond and talk smack about him.
As is the way with all of us, your post betrays your internal world.
So you don't like me? Big deal, that is your right, I am not offended as I don't really care.
But to then post this, whilst being blinded by your emotion does nothing for you, or us.

[HORIZONS]

Posted by Chinaski (here)

Posted by HORIZONS (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
it seems the messenger is the only one with the problem here.

I disagree! But you seem to be having a problem with this (?) Just an observation - not an attack.

the "problem" i was referring to was the reaction to Bill's post. its completely contrived and inane, and serves no purpose other than to bring attention to Sidious and his alleged "lesson of the day". do i have a problem with it? yeah, i guess i do.

Well you are honest and entitled to your opinion, thanks for clarifying - kudos to you.

[HORIZONS]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)

Posted by HORIZONS (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
it seems the messenger is the only one with the problem here.

I disagree! But you seem to be having a problem with this (?) Just an observation - not an attack.

the "problem" i was referring to was the reaction to Bill's post. its completely contrived and inane, and serves no purpose other than to bring attention to Sidious and his alleged "lesson of the day". do i have a problem with it? yeah, i guess i do.

You make a lot of assumptions in one post.
In case you didn't realise it, I don't need or want ''attention'' but I do want some healing.
Genuine healing, not two faced posts like some did before.
Anything I have to say to bill I say here, to his face.
I don't go behind his back where he can't respond and talk smack about him.
As is the way with all of us, your post betrays your internal world.
So you don't like me? Big deal, that is your right, I am not offended as I don't really care.
But to then post this, whilst being blinded by your emotion does nothing for you, or us.

Right, wrong or indifferent - It is what it is - nothing more - nothing less.

[gigha]

We have someone of interest watching this thread. hello Atticus

[Strat]

This will be my first post in Avalon regarding this type of discussion. I always ignore this stuff, because when **** like this hits the fan, everyone turns ****ty. Lord Kharsh the Draco be with me...

Obviously the issue here is language. LS you are suggesting he inadvertently promoted racism through his post where he suggested white men have destroyed the environment, specifically in Australia. You claim you are aware that Bill is not racist but you must have an apology.

I think Bill is not apologizing for a few reasons. One, because he feels he's right (after reading Guns, Germs & Steel, I'd have to agree. I have an image in my mind of English explorers being carried on the backs of black natives across ponds/rivers because they were afraid of malaria or whatever.) Two if were going to be hyper-politically correct, where do we draw the line? How can we tell when someone is going to be offended or not? What he said wasn't blatantly racist by any means. You can say I'm wrong and that my system of understanding is inferior, though the majority of this forum agrees with my argument.

We're trying to chill you out because we value you, and you are over reacting.

Another issues is the way you responded. If we were to take a poll on whether or not Bill should have re-worded his post, I feel it would be one sided in his favor. I imagine even most white Australians would agree. If we were to take another poll on whether or not your posts in the beginning were derogatory, it would be one sided against you.

I don't know Bill, or you, but we are MEN. You don't go up to a man and start making demands and telling them how to act. I'm 25 and I respect everyone, especially my elders. I'm aware that I'm not Einstein, I haven't contributed much in the world, seen much, and I'm only good at shooting pool. However, I don't care if you're 65, if you're rude to me, then get out of my face and I won't respect you. If you responded differently like, "Bill please be easy with ____ and _____ it's a sore spot with me" then that would've been better.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you've been defending yourself for 8 pages against people. You may have reached the point where emotions are overriding rational thought. That doesn't mean you're jumping up and down and cursing, though I do question whether or not you're trying to help the forum or win an argument.

[Davidallany]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=KwJvcwmhxD8

A tribute to Lord Sidious, the Dark Lord of the Sith.

[HORIZONS]

I don't really care.

I thought you said you did care? I know you said you cared. All opinions are important if the desired result is to be as your vision for Avalon has been stated.

(off to bed)

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Anything I have to say to bill I say here, to his face.
I don't go behind his back where he can't respond and talk smack about him.
As is the way with all of us, your post betrays your internal world.
So you don't like me? Big deal, that is your right, I am not offended as I don't really care.
But to then post this, whilst being blinded by your emotion does nothing for you, or us.

I doubt you're one to speak with authority on Chinaski's inner world.

Nor for that matter did I see evidence that he was posting "blinded by" his emotions.

[Mike]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)

Posted by HORIZONS (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
it seems the messenger is the only one with the problem here.

I disagree! But you seem to be having a problem with this (?) Just an observation - not an attack.

the "problem" i was referring to was the reaction to Bill's post. its completely contrived and inane, and serves no purpose other than to bring attention to Sidious and his alleged "lesson of the day". do i have a problem with it? yeah, i guess i do.

You make a lot of assumptions in one post.
In case you didn't realise it, I don't need or want ''attention'' but I do want some healing.
Genuine healing, not two faced posts like some did before.
Anything I have to say to bill I say here, to his face.
I don't go behind his back where he can't respond and talk smack about him.
As is the way with all of us, your post betrays your internal world.
So you don't like me? Big deal, that is your right, I am not offended as I don't really care.
But to then post this, whilst being blinded by your emotion does nothing for you, or us.

never said i didn't like you Sid. appreciate at least that you're not hiding or being 2 faced etc...but i think you're enjoying this a little too much, not so much for the so-called lesson, but for the attention grabbing. we'll have to agree to disagree here i guess.

i could go back and forth all night, but my girlfriend and the demands of a normal sex life dictate that i must sign off now. no hard feelings Sidious.

best,
Mike

[Seikou-Kishi]

Posted by Strat (here)
I think Bill is not apologizing for a few reasons. One, because he feels he's right (after reading Guns, Germs & Steel, I'd have to agree. I have an image in my mind of English explorers being carried on the backs of black natives across ponds/rivers because they were afraid of malaria or whatever.)

Sidious's point though is that he, himself has never ridden on the back of a native.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Strat (here)
This will be my first post in Avalon regarding this type of discussion. I always ignore this stuff, because when **** like this hits the fan, everyone turns ****ty. Lord Kharsh the Draco be with me...

Obviously the issue here is language. LS you are suggesting he inadvertently promoted racism through his post where he suggested white men have destroyed the environment, specifically in Australia. You claim you are aware that Bill is not racist but you must have an apology.

I think Bill is not apologizing for a few reasons. One, because he feels he's right (after reading Guns, Germs & Steel, I'd have to agree. I have an imagine in my mind of English explorers being carried on the backs of black natives across ponds/rivers because they were afraid of malaria or whatever.) Two if were going to be hyper-politically correct, where do we draw the line? How can we tell when someone is going to be offended or not? What he said wasn't blatantly racist by any means. You can say I'm wrong and that my system of understanding is inferior, though the majority of this forum agrees with my argument.

We're trying to chill you out because we value you, and you are over reacting.

Another issues is the way you responded. If we were to take a poll on whether or not Bill should have re-worded his post, I feel it would be one sided in his favor. I imagine even most white Australians would agree. If we were to take another poll on whether or not your posts in the beginning were derogatory, it would be one sided against you.

I don't know Bill, or you, but we are MEN. You don't go up to a man and start making demands and telling them how to act. I'm 25 and I respect everyone, especially my elders. I'm aware that I'm not Einstein, I haven't contributed much in the world, seen much, and I'm only good at shooting pool. However, I don't care if you're 65, if you're rude to me, then get out of my face and I won't respect you. If you responded differently like, "Bill please be easy with ____ and _____ it's a sore spot with me" I bet he would have responded differently.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you've been defending yourself for 8 pages against people. You may have reached the point where emotions are overriding rational thought. That doesn't mean you're jumping up and down and cursing, though I do question whether or not you're trying to help the forum or win an argument.

I would suggest that a poll would be pointless as many would vote for bill simply because they like him.
That in itself does no favours to any of us, but increases the problems.
I am not interested in defending myself, although I am explaining what I am trying to do.
You think I am wrong, again that is your right.
You could very well be right.
But you could be wrong too.

Posted by HORIZONS (here)

I don't really care.

I thought you said you did care? I know you said you cared. All opinions are important if the desired result is to be as your vision for Avalon has been stated.

(off to bed)

I don't care what people think of me.
I do care about us going forward as a united as possible avalon.
The question that I would ask everyone is this, is avalon worth it?
If the answer is yes, then could we attempt to actually deal with things and not react from emotion?

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Anything I have to say to bill I say here, to his face.
I don't go behind his back where he can't respond and talk smack about him.
As is the way with all of us, your post betrays your internal world.
So you don't like me? Big deal, that is your right, I am not offended as I don't really care.
But to then post this, whilst being blinded by your emotion does nothing for you, or us.

I doubt you're one to speak with authority on Chinaski's inner world.

Nor for that matter did I see evidence that he was posting "blinded by" his emotions.

You could be right, but in this case, I think I am close to the mark.
The thing is, it isn't about being right and wrong, it is about settling the issues and moving on.
As one of the staff, this will make things easier for you too.
But you have you outlook, I have mine and the truth is probably a third.
That is why we put the ideas up, to figure out what the deal is, then move on, no?

Posted by Chinaski (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)

Posted by HORIZONS (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
it seems the messenger is the only one with the problem here.

I disagree! But you seem to be having a problem with this (?) Just an observation - not an attack.

the "problem" i was referring to was the reaction to Bill's post. its completely contrived and inane, and serves no purpose other than to bring attention to Sidious and his alleged "lesson of the day". do i have a problem with it? yeah, i guess i do.

You make a lot of assumptions in one post.
In case you didn't realise it, I don't need or want ''attention'' but I do want some healing.
Genuine healing, not two faced posts like some did before.
Anything I have to say to bill I say here, to his face.
I don't go behind his back where he can't respond and talk smack about him.
As is the way with all of us, your post betrays your internal world.
So you don't like me? Big deal, that is your right, I am not offended as I don't really care.
But to then post this, whilst being blinded by your emotion does nothing for you, or us.

never said i didn't like you Sid. appreciate at least that you're not hiding or being 2 faced etc...but i think you're enjoying this a little too much, not so much for the so-called lesson, but for the attention grabbing. we'll have to agree to disagree here i guess.

i could go back and forth all night, but my girlfriend and the demands of a normal sex life dictate that i must sign off now. no hard feelings Sidious.

best,
Mike

Ok, well thanks for clarifying that.
I am not enjoying this, I have been awake for 22 hours, my neck is sore as, but this needs to be dealt with before I can sleep.
Speak to you later Mike.

[Davidallany]

Maybe I'm wrong, but you've been defending yourself for 8 pages against people

Wouldn't you defend your so called self if so many were attacking you, instead of your opinions. Telling you to leave if you don't agree with them, this is how this all started, with the very first original post yesterday carrying an intense negative energy within it, and picked up and snow balled and caught some Nobel Avalonians.

Having said this for the purpose of clarification, on the beginning the middle and the end "I hope", this is in no way an attempt to blame Seiko-Kishi. I respect this member with all my heart and bow to him, I am sorry if my words have caused any tension or suffering. My respects Seiko-Kishi.

[Davidallany]

I would suggest that a poll would be pointless as many would vote for bill simply because they like him.
That in itself does no favours to any of us, but increases the problems.
I am not interested in defending myself, although I am explaining what I am trying to do.
You think I am wrong, again that is your right.
You could very well be right.
But you could be wrong too.

I agree, this course of action is not coming from the heart or out of love. The intension there is to proof someone wrong and the other right. Victory and defeat. Avalon is nobler than that, perhaps a separate thread would be a better choice if some are interested in carrying out a poll.

[Seikou-Kishi]

My post was not negative, thanks Davidallany

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Davidallany (here)

I would suggest that a poll would be pointless as many would vote for bill simply because they like him.
That in itself does no favours to any of us, but increases the problems.
I am not interested in defending myself, although I am explaining what I am trying to do.
You think I am wrong, again that is your right.
You could very well be right.
But you could be wrong too.

I agree, this course of action is not coming from the heart or out of love. The intension there is to proof someone wrong and the other right. Victory and defeat. Avalon is nobler than that, perhaps a separate thread would be a better choice if some are interested in carrying out a poll.

And that is the deal, I am not out to prove bill wrong.
Or show you that he is bad, a fraud or whatever else you guys would like to attribute to me.
I can't prove anything like that, I don't know bill and I have no info like that.
Sometimes in life the guy telling you the hard truth is more of a friend to you than the people patting you on the back.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
I am not out to prove bill wrong.

You had me fooled.

[Strat]

Posted by Davidallany (here)

Maybe I'm wrong, but you've been defending yourself for 8 pages against people

Wouldn't you defend your so called self if so many were attacking you, instead of your opinions. Telling you to leave if you don't agree with them, this is how this all started, with the very first original post yesterday carrying an intense negative energy within it, and picked up and snow balled and caught some Nobel Avalonians.

No, I always ignore derogatory posts.

I have been insulted a few times, though I've never responded. My metaphor has been this: When I go running I pass by a playground where children are screaming non sense. Sometimes they run up to the fence, shake it and scream at me, "hey look at that guy, yadda yadda." You know what I do? Ignore it because it's silliness.

I have never, not once, been in an argument on this forum. If you don't believe me you can check every post I've made.

Oh and LS, I imagine it's annoying having a 25yr old dude trying to give you advice. I'm not trying to be 'holier than thou or anything,' just calling it like I see it. God bless.

[astrid]

"Sometimes in life the guy telling you the hard truth is more of a friend to you than the people patting you on the back."

Yeah... but thats my point on projection.

Are you not just trying to impose your truth on to others?

Alot of us already get this issue, and don't read the word "white" the same way you do.

It doesn't seem hold the same "charge" for us as it does for you.

I don't see skin color at all, personally , i just see the person.

Oneness is oneness.

[Flash]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Davidallany (here)

I would suggest that a poll would be pointless as many would vote for bill simply because they like him.
That in itself does no favours to any of us, but increases the problems.
I am not interested in defending myself, although I am explaining what I am trying to do.
You think I am wrong, again that is your right.
You could very well be right.
But you could be wrong too.

I agree, this course of action is not coming from the heart or out of love. The intension there is to proof someone wrong and the other right. Victory and defeat. Avalon is nobler than that, perhaps a separate thread would be a better choice if some are interested in carrying out a poll.

And that is the deal, I am not out to prove bill wrong.
Or show you that he is bad, a fraud or whatever else you guys would like to attribute to me.
I can't prove anything like that, I don't know bill and I have no info like that.
Sometimes in life the guy telling you the hard truth is more of a friend to you than the people patting you on the back.

Your are right about hard truth coming from real friends who extend their neck for us, even if it may be chopped. I personnally prefer these kind of friends, cause patting comes with a hidden knife sometimes (insincere) or most often with jello behavior that can't be relied on.

Personnally, I still think your intentions here are not to be proven right, but to make the separativeness point of our thinking (programmation) clearly understood. But I may be wrong in my assumption.

Anyhow, thanks for having me go further in developing my own thinking.

now we both go to sleep, n'est-ce pas?