The sensitivity of language and people when describing race-related issues

[New Dawn]

Posted by New Dawn (here)
I've not read every single page, but come on guys, no drama - we've got Eastenders for that, have we not? Avalon need to work together, otherwise this is not as an important arena as it should be, is it!.

Posted by [QUOTE=Lord Sidious (here)
Thanks for that, I agree 110%, but, why not include camelot AND nexus?
We all want to survive, no?

Certainly, just because I choose to be here, I still extend my arm to those on 'cousin' forums. I'm not too familiar with Nexus, though I did a little browsing. I am a member of Camelot forum too, although I tend to feel of this place as my first click on the net, each to their own, but none of these forums have to be rivals - our goal is the same

Is that fair to say? I think it is.

[Sebastion]

Methinks it's time I made my contribution to this thread and perhaps a greater understanding as well. This subject and idea has been a boon to mankind more than likely from the beginning. It can be resolved and solved but not with the same mindset and thinking that created it in the first place. It's high time to up the game, as it were. This entire paradigm that we have created is based upon and stems from what can only be called social consciousness. Social consciousness is simply a program which tells you how you should feel, be, etc, depending on the social situation you find yourself in, complete with behavior modification guidelines, to be accepted by the crowd or the culture you find yourself in. There are many who have an innate awareness within them of that which is referred to as the higher self or as I will call it, the authentic self/consciousness. Some refer to it as the soul mind/source, etc. It is that Source/Authentic consciousness which creates to experience itself on an unlimited basis. It is unlimited mind, consciousness pure.

Somehow, arriving in 3d, we find ourselves saddled with a limited mind containing a reptilian brain at its core. Lower mind has now usurped authentic consciousness to the point of almost complete amnesia of its existence. But guess what? Behind the scenes your authentic consciousness is still creating from thoughts and beliefs you are generating from limited mind, whether you are aware of it or not! This is truth itself. Perhaps it is time now to begin to think outside of the box by seeking access to that which is unlimited within each and all. There are many ways to do this, yet perhaps the best way is your own unique way, according to your own personal self evidence. Follow your own personal self evidence. That which is authentic higher mind/soul/source will provide a way if you have the will/desire and the intent to know for yourself. The keys which unlock the doors of all understanding are on your side of the door!

[Amer]

That you believe there is something inherently wrong among us to be rectified is one discourse Rob.
That you are drawing into the conundrum Atticus is an entirely different one.
I don't know if I can go down that road with you.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by New Dawn (here)

Posted by New Dawn (here)
I've not read every single page, but come on guys, no drama - we've got Eastenders for that, have we not? Avalon need to work together, otherwise this is not as an important arena as it should be, is it!.

Posted by [QUOTE=Lord Sidious (here)
Thanks for that, I agree 110%, but, why not include camelot AND nexus?
We all want to survive, no?

Certainly, just because I choose to be here, I still extend my arm to those on 'cousin' forums. I'm not too familiar with Nexus, though I did a little browsing. I am a member of Camelot forum too, although I tend to feel of this place as my first click on the net, each to their own, but none of these forums have to be rivals - our goal is the same

Is that fair to say? I think it is.

You got it nugget, it is fair.
We are all on the same train, in different carriages.

Posted by Amer (here)
That you believe there is something inherently wrong among us to be rectified is one discourse Rob.
That you are drawing into the conundrum Atticus is an entirely different one.
I don't know if I can go down that road with you.

Why is that?
You can PM me if you want, I am curious to find out what you mean.

[DeDukshyn]

How's this all going? making any progress with the point you were trying to make? Sorry for almost derailing your "plan" way back there, but the example you used was a little weak (but the "best" you'd get from Bill as he is a good communicator), this could have been better with a better example IMHO. But as the logic in some of my early posts in this thread indicate, there is a way to communicate vague things properly, understand the intentions of the sender, and get "resolution" from the situation - when they are not completely obvious. These better ways are not obvious (or even possible) to most at all though, because of our conditioning on communication - and it looks the traditional "ways" are what you were trying to work through here. I don't have time to go through all the last 10 pages or so to see the linear progress, but it was a tough sell to begin with IMO.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
How's this all going? making any progress with the point you were trying to make? Sorry for almost derailing your "plan" way back there, but the example you used was a little weak (but the "best" you'd get from Bill as he is a good communicator), this could have been better with a better example IMHO. But as the logic in some of my early posts in this thread indicate, there is a way to communicate vague things properly, understand the intentions of the sender, and get "resolution" from the situation - when they are not completely obvious. These better ways are not obvious (or even possible) to most at all though, because of our conditioning on communication - and it looks the traditional "ways" are what you were trying to work through here. I don't have time to go through all the last 10 pages or so to see the linear progress, but it was a tough sell to begin with IMO.

Remember, this evolved, I didn't set out with that intention.
Plus, you may not get the context as I didn't explain my intent and a required outcome to you, did I?
No need to apologise although I appreciate your intent and offer.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
How's this all going? making any progress with the point you were trying to make? Sorry for almost derailing your "plan" way back there, but the example you used was a little weak (but the "best" you'd get from Bill as he is a good communicator), this could have been better with a better example IMHO. But as the logic in some of my early posts in this thread indicate, there is a way to communicate vague things properly, understand the intentions of the sender, and get "resolution" from the situation - when they are not completely obvious. These better ways are not obvious (or even possible) to most at all though, because of our conditioning on communication - and it looks the traditional "ways" are what you were trying to work through here. I don't have time to go through all the last 10 pages or so to see the linear progress, but it was a tough sell to begin with IMO.

Remember, this evolved, I didn't set out with that intention.
Plus, you may not get the context as I didn't explain my intent and a required outcome to you, did I?
No need to apologise although I appreciate your intent and offer.

You intent was indicated; no idea what your required outcome is though ... all seems a little specific to me, my mind works in "systems" and "philosophies" so maybe I'm just not getting it. Obviously, your intent is help put to rest the "at odds-edness" between here and Nexus, by pointing out how easy it may be to misunderstand someone, and if that can be something we can all be made to agree upon, you may consider your task complete? So you can put that back on Bill, and make him (and others) see what you believe are misunderstandings. Correct me if I'm wrong but without reading the last 10 pages (very poor sample, with large margin of error - I know) it's what appears to me...

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
How's this all going? making any progress with the point you were trying to make? Sorry for almost derailing your "plan" way back there, but the example you used was a little weak (but the "best" you'd get from Bill as he is a good communicator), this could have been better with a better example IMHO. But as the logic in some of my early posts in this thread indicate, there is a way to communicate vague things properly, understand the intentions of the sender, and get "resolution" from the situation - when they are not completely obvious. These better ways are not obvious (or even possible) to most at all though, because of our conditioning on communication - and it looks the traditional "ways" are what you were trying to work through here. I don't have time to go through all the last 10 pages or so to see the linear progress, but it was a tough sell to begin with IMO.

Remember, this evolved, I didn't set out with that intention.
Plus, you may not get the context as I didn't explain my intent and a required outcome to you, did I?
No need to apologise although I appreciate your intent and offer.

You intent was indicated; no idea what your required outcome is though ... all seems a little specific to me, my mind works in "systems" and "philosophies" so maybe I'm just not getting it. Obviously, your intent is help put to rest the "at odds-edness" between here and Nexus, by pointing out how easy it may be to misunderstand someone, and if that can be something we can all be made to agree upon, you may consider your task complete? So you can put that back on Bill, and make him (and others) see what you believe are misunderstandings. Correct me if I'm wrong but without reading the last 10 pages (very poor sample, with large margin of error - I know) it's what appears to me...

Read this one https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post215665
That is exactly down to a tee.



Thanks for pointing out I had the wrong link, dunno how I did that.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Read this one https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...687#post215687
That is exactly down to a tee.

That is a three line post of Amer's. If you intended to inform by linking to it, you did not succeed, at least for this reader. Perhaps I should eat more carrots?

[K626]

K had won many battles and spread the word across the dark lands and on his return to the Haupstadt he was greeted by large jubilant crowds in the streets. There was expectation and high spirits and music across the city. The Mayor and the holy men came to K and with excitement directed him to the center where even more crowds danced with joy and happiness. Although he was tired and saddle weary and needed a beer he showed courtesy.

There right in the center of the main Platz, rising above the crowd was a huge golden effigy of K and the priests and the leaders looked mighty pleased with themselves and begged him to stand next to it and give it his blessing. The sun sparkled onto the statue as if cleansing it with a new light, it beamed in magnificence and craft.

K rode upto the statue and as he did the crowd hushed and nervous looks were shared for K drew his longsword and it is said the sun blinked and the sky grew dark. A great anger rose up in K and his horse was unsteady and rose up as if for battle.

One holy man ran forward, bowing and heistant with fear in his eyes.

"What is it Lord K of Batticus? What tempers you so? Tell us!

K looked across the now silent crowd and slowly spoke and his voice was oily and dark.

"I would better have found it in my heart to spare one life than gain such a kingdom".

Peace

K

[Amenjo]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Read this one https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...687#post215687
That is exactly down to a tee.

That is a three line post of Amer's. If you intended to inform by linking to it, you did not succeed, at least for this reader. Perhaps I should eat more carrots?

I think the Lords just created a time loop on this Thread it links back to the beginning!

Hmmmm.

Love and Truth,

Amenjo

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
How's this all going? making any progress with the point you were trying to make? Sorry for almost derailing your "plan" way back there, but the example you used was a little weak (but the "best" you'd get from Bill as he is a good communicator), this could have been better with a better example IMHO. But as the logic in some of my early posts in this thread indicate, there is a way to communicate vague things properly, understand the intentions of the sender, and get "resolution" from the situation - when they are not completely obvious. These better ways are not obvious (or even possible) to most at all though, because of our conditioning on communication - and it looks the traditional "ways" are what you were trying to work through here. I don't have time to go through all the last 10 pages or so to see the linear progress, but it was a tough sell to begin with IMO.

Remember, this evolved, I didn't set out with that intention.
Plus, you may not get the context as I didn't explain my intent and a required outcome to you, did I?
No need to apologise although I appreciate your intent and offer.

You intent was indicated; no idea what your required outcome is though ... all seems a little specific to me, my mind works in "systems" and "philosophies" so maybe I'm just not getting it. Obviously, your intent is help put to rest the "at odds-edness" between here and Nexus, by pointing out how easy it may be to misunderstand someone, and if that can be something we can all be made to agree upon, you may consider your task complete? So you can put that back on Bill, and make him (and others) see what you believe are misunderstandings. Correct me if I'm wrong but without reading the last 10 pages (very poor sample, with large margin of error - I know) it's what appears to me...

Read this one https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...687#post215687
That is exactly down to a tee.

There's a distinction that needs to be made in regards to that post -- and this is always the big question (that concept is nothing new to me - I learned all the fallacies of human communication in a grueling 30 hour contraversial course called the LandMark Forum, where we didn't just learn it we had it drilled into us, then we had to practice it by fixing the major issues in our lives with the new corrected way of communicating so we could see how easy communication really is if done correctly)

The distinction is this ... who's responsibility is it to practice this (what I called 'better way' - what you pointed to in Sebastion's post), the sender, or receiver? And if one party does not .. then what?

The problem you are pointing out is merely quality of communication, as indicated in Sebastion's post. As the sender of information, it is my responsibility to ensure to the best of my ability that the receiver receives it as I intended it. If the receiver is offended, they should seek clarification to the sender that the offense was intended, or to get the misunderstanding clarified. If this is done adequately you get one of three results: The communication was received as intended, the offense was intentional or the misunderstanding of the offense was clarified. Full stop. If this very simple procedure is done and followed with any communication, it will trump all poor pre-programmed communication habits. Whether you believe the sender was comunicating like a neanderthal or not -- it works. It only breaks down when one party is convinced the other is not being honest -- that is a trust issue and a seperate topic.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Read this one https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...687#post215687
That is exactly down to a tee.

That is a three line post of Amer's. If you intended to inform by linking to it, you did not succeed, at least for this reader. Perhaps I should eat more carrots?

The post links aren't 100% accurate -- I think it was sebastions post he was referring to.

[Lord Sidious]

I got the correct link in that post now.
It is this one.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post215665

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
If the receiver is offended, they should seek clarification to the sender that the offense was intended, or to get the misunderstanding clarified. If this is done adequately you get one of three results: The communication was received as intended, the offense was intentional or the misunderstanding of the offense was clarified

That sounds like excellent advice to me. Thanks.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
I got the correct link in that post now.
It is this one.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post215665

lol the post number might be best ... ;-)

[oceanz]

In the end when our bodies decompose all we are left with is a pile of WHITE bones - we all look pretty similar then.

What is more important is how you treat yourself and others so your spirit is full of colour as these will be the "clothes" you might wear in the next or spiritual life.

[DeDukshyn]

Just a simple pot stir? guess I was reading into it too much ... lol

Edit: I read it again, a lot has been revealed between yours, and a few others members posts ... Amer included ... interesting.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
I got the correct link in that post now.
It is this one.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post215665

lol the post number might be best ... ;-)

Does that not take you to that post?
It works for me.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
lol the post number might be best ... ;-)

Not that it would ever happen on this forum, but post numbers are not stable under thread merges, thread splits and post copies, moves and deletions.

Oh .. nevermind .. this thread is itself the product of a thread split. Guess it can happen here too . In otherwords, notice that Bill Ryan's current Post #1 of this thread did not start out as Post #1. It started out as some other numbered post of another thread.

The (cumbersome) link to the actual post (the link beneath the post number in the upper right corner of each post) is the only long term stable way to refer to a post.

[Karma Ninja]

A teacher tends to know when his students are open to a lesson and willing to learn. Since none of us signed up for this class and this moment was never wanted, the lesson was missed and the students lost.

A teacher is able to unite his students in the discussion and allow for a free and open discourse. In this thread the students remain divided and the ingredients of the lesson are lost in a mad ramble that has never been clear or concise. Apparently some students have feelings that see them trapped in a paradigm that is not understood. If we are open to sentiment and feelings that our teacher disagrees with than we are slaves to a mind control system that few understand and which our teacher continually references without a moment spent teaching us this system.

A teacher can get his message across without offending his students and without destroying their interest in the topic. In this thread the two sides have largely taken offense to the methods and the topic and some have walked out of the classroom...never to return.

A teacher keeps the discussion on topic and makes his intentions clear and the goal of the lesson is explained to all, so that all can understand the wisdom. In this thread the teacher has switched the topic and the lesson itself a number of times in an attempt to guide the conversation away from the students challenges. The students are mostly aware that there is clearly a hidden agenda here and the lesson is lost on most. The teacher has confused his students and tries to cover the failure to teach by talking about an evolving lesson with fluid goals. The majority of students reject this explanation.

Some might understand what our self elected teacher has been trying to accomplish (I think I actually do and if it had been done it a separate and distinct thread I would feel differently) but I wonder what any of it has to do with the original topic posted or the newly created thread. This has become about the other agenda and moved on from the original intentions. It is a hijacked thread.

With regard to the actual topic it is a well known fact that the written word can be misinterpreted. One has to try and understand the intention behind the remark and not dwell on any perceived slight. The comment which caused the original discussion did not say "ALL" white men nor did it specify the "FEW" white men who actually did the harm. It isn't fair to generalize nor is it fair to pin someone in the corner based on a total misunderstanding. In this case a person took his own interpretation and reacted in a distasteful manner and lashed out at someone who clearly did not intend a slight. A fact confirmed by the many who saw the original comment for what it was intended. There is a sensitivity around race related issues and there is an obvious and easily understood reason for this reaction. The divide can hurt us and we are emotional regarding this rejection and hurt.

The intention of Bills original remark had more of a metaphorical meaning to it trying to get the point across about why moderators and Bill are willing to revoke the membership of people who "wander in the forest without regard to it's inhabitants or the results of their actions"...

Lets hope this terrible (my opinion) discussion has not completely lost us some valuable members with valuable opinions. People who don't want to be a part of a 'wormtongue' environment or be taught invisible and confusing lessons from a teacher who may have more to learn than teach.

That is my lesson for today. I sent one of my friends a link to this site and suggested she read some of the info and make her mind up about whether to join. Unfortunately she chose last night and she ended up reading this thread. Needless to say she decided not to join.