Censorship here?

[Chicodoodoo]

Avalon, we have a problem.

Essentially, it is this: Who watches the watchers?

Currently, there is no system in place to moderate the moderators (I am including Bill Ryan in this moderator group). The moderators have absolute power over the voices of Avalon members, and as we all know, absolute power corrupts absolutely. We are seeing signs of this corruption beginning to grow. I myself have been silenced unjustifiably, and others have been silenced as well. Any one of you could easily be next.

Avalon has already fragmented, more than once, as a result of this problem, and this division is on-going. It will continue until the problem is properly addressed. That is the purpose of this post.

It is frequently argued that this is Bill’s “house”, so he can run it as he pleases. I would like to put that argument to bed permanently. Avalon is not a “house”; it is a community. It is a community made up of thousands of individual members, many of whom donate time, energy, and money to make this enterprise possible. Bill is indeed the founder of this community and was instrumental in bringing it into the world. He is also a very respected member of the community, but he does not “own” it any more than he owns any one of us. The community grows, it evolves, and it develops its own identity and autonomy. It is this last step, developing its own autonomy, that is being prevented. This can and should be remedied if Avalon is to reach its amazing potential.

A system of checks and balances is called for here, one that is circular as opposed to hierarchical. In other words, if moderators are tasked with controlling the community, the community must also be tasked with controlling the moderators.

I am proposing a kind of feedback loop where the community has some power to regulate the moderators. I am requesting ideas and discussion for what this system would look like and how it would work. I am also requesting the support of Bill and the moderators, who should place the best interests of the Avalon community ahead of their own private interests.

We have the opportunity to do something very special here. I recommend we don’t waste it.

[Lord Sidious]

How do you propose to do that chiconugget?
Control the admin/mod team I mean.

[Gaia]

I'd think there is some way to have a forum where people can discuss topics with less censorship and have it be a good place to talk and get support. I do think sometimes those things can be diametrically opposed. Even if it's somewhat messy and misunderstandings take place. That's what compassion and forgiveness are for ... Allowing mistakes and accepting apologies.

[Hughe]

Deleted thread section
The name of moderators who ban or lock thread will have to be on record so that any members will see.

If it ever occurs, that will be fantastic.

[bearcow]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wRpAANsoG8I

PARANOIA MAY DESTROY YA?

who polices the police, and all the other arguments put forward about creating checks and balances within the forum's operating structure will only create bureaucracy.

trust will develop on the forum only if people police themselves, only then we can actually do something constructive here.

[greybeard]

Post 16 on the link is your answer and it is valid
If you dont like it here there are other places to go
We have been here many times before its a waste of time in my opinion.
Im not saying the sentiment invalid, the situation will not change.
Regarding deleted potions and threads that were halted -- to the best of my knowledge the mod who made the decision always said why
and named themselves.
Being a mod is not easy.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...er-information

[Teakai]

I agree, Chicodoodoo - I feel that is about the one failing of Avalon. I haven't any solutions as to what we can do about it,though

[ThePythonicCow]

Post 16 on the link is your answer and it is valid

Greybeard - are you referring to this post?

[greybeard]

Posted by Paul (here)

Post 16 on the link is your answer and it is valid

Greybeard - are you referring to this post?

Yes thanks Paul
Bill is clear and fair --- my bit is not really relevant but I am not computer literate enough to do a link properly.
Chris

[ThePythonicCow]

Thanks, Greybeard. I prefer the link because the Post # changes after I delete any earlier post in the same thread (insert evil laugh here .) The link always continues to point to the same post.

[Gaia]

Being a mod is not easy.

An admin is not only in charge of what is said above, but also of taking care of the website in its entirety, which includes technical problems and glitches, and editing the website.

For all moderatos these qualifications must be respected:

You must fully respect Bill Ryan. This is his site, and you have the privilege of moderating it.

You must respect and honour, and make others honour, the rules.

You must be fair when you moderate. Do not be too harsh, or too passive. Forgive a lot of minor offenses, but never forget them.

Be objective when you moderate. Do not defend anybody because they're your friend. Do so only because you see it as being rational, fair and right. Do not let an offense from somebody slip because you're they're friend. Whoever does not respect the rules must be notified of that.

Do not abuse your privileges. Yes, you do have more rights than a member, but that doesn't mean you can be an a** about it.

Gaia

[HORIZONS]

Posted by Teakai (here)
I agree, Chicodoodoo - I feel that is about the one failing of Avalon. I haven't any solutions as to what we can do about it,though

No offense, but it is simple really... We could always choose to deal with it! I've been here since AV1 and see no point in getting caught up in all the hoopla - it is what it is - so I deal with it! ...... "Freedom, it may not be what you want it to be, but it will be what it is - and that is free." We are free to choose, so choose wisely!

[Chicodoodoo]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Post 16 on the link is your answer and it is valid
If you dont like it here there are other places to go
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...er-information

I readily recognize that argument, since it has been used ad nauseum in my own country throughout a good portion of my life. It is the "Love it or leave it" argument. By the time that argument becomes the popular meme, an astute observer can predict the decline that is surely already in progress. The United States is a joke of a country today. Do we want to see Avalon follow suit?

We have been here many times before its a waste of time in my opinion.

Really? Then things are perhaps worse than I thought. I understand that this is not the first iteration of the Avalon forum. Could you summarize some of the prior history of this problem for the newer members?

[qbeac]

great thread and great idea, Chicodoodoo, I totally agree with you, and specially with these paragraphs:

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
.... A system of checks and balances is called for here, one that is circular as opposed to hierarchical. In other words, if moderators are tasked with controlling the community, the community must also be tasked with controlling the moderators.

I am proposing a kind of feedback loop where the community has some power to regulate the moderators. I am requesting ideas and discussion for what this system would look like and how it would work. I am also requesting the support of Bill and the moderators, who should place the best interests of the Avalon community ahead of their own private interests.

We have the opportunity to do something very special here. I recommend we don’t waste it.

Besides the “checks and balances”, which is a MUST HAVE, I would suggest two more things:

1) To improve the forum’s software system. That’s a task for computer programmers. Many things could be improved about this current version of the Vbulletin system.

For instance, sometimes I want to thank somebody but not because I agree with what that person said, but because other reasons, such as that I appreciate that he/she said it because it was brave, or honest, etc. Well, more buttons could be added besides just the “thank you” button.

Another example: If a moderator makes a decision (Ex: banning someone), let’s the rest of us vote (with a special button to do so) to say if we agree or disagree with it.

2) Let’s form a MERITOCRACY, as Benjamin Fulford has mentioned so many times in his weekly updates as being a good system to rule the world, as opposed to the current ones of dictatorships and the like.

MERITOCRACY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy

Meritocracy, in the first, most administrative sense, is a system of government or other administration (such as business administration) wherein appointments are made and responsibilities assigned to individuals based upon their "merits", namely intelligence, credentials, and education,[1] determined through evaluations or examinations. (...)

In government applications, individuals appointed to a meritocracy are judged based upon certain merits which could range from intelligence to morality to general aptitude to specific knowledge.

Supporters of meritocracies do not necessarily agree on the nature of "merit", however they tend to agree that "merit" itself should be a primary consideration during evaluation.

¿Who would vote in a MERITOCRACY?

Each one of us, the whole community: that’s “checks and balances”.

[Siberia9]

Oh boy, here we go again, and Im new LOL. I am currious about what set Chicodoodoo off? He said that he was censored can he tell us what drew the mods attention, without getting slapped again that is.

[Carmody]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
Avalon, we have a problem.

Essentially, it is this: Who watches the watchers?

Currently, there is no system in place to moderate the moderators (I am including Bill Ryan in this moderator group). The moderators have absolute power over the voices of Avalon members, and as we all know, absolute power corrupts absolutely. We are seeing signs of this corruption beginning to grow. I myself have been silenced unjustifiably, and others have been silenced as well. Any one of you could easily be next.

Avalon has already fragmented, more than once, as a result of this problem, and this division is on-going. It will continue until the problem is properly addressed. That is the purpose of this post.

It is frequently argued that this is Bill’s “house”, so he can run it as he pleases. I would like to put that argument to bed permanently. Avalon is not a “house”; it is a community. It is a community made up of thousands of individual members, many of whom donate time, energy, and money to make this enterprise possible. Bill is indeed the founder of this community and was instrumental in bringing it into the world. He is also a very respected member of the community, but he does not “own” it any more than he owns any one of us. The community grows, it evolves, and it develops its own identity and autonomy. It is this last step, developing its own autonomy, that is being prevented. This can and should be remedied if Avalon is to reach its amazing potential.

A system of checks and balances is called for here, one that is circular as opposed to hierarchical. In other words, if moderators are tasked with controlling the community, the community must also be tasked with controlling the moderators.

I am proposing a kind of feedback loop where the community has some power to regulate the moderators. I am requesting ideas and discussion for what this system would look like and how it would work. I am also requesting the support of Bill and the moderators, who should place the best interests of the Avalon community ahead of their own private interests.

We have the opportunity to do something very special here. I recommend we don’t waste it.

I recommend that you go start a forum that talks about that.

Provide a link that goes there ....for those who want to go there.

In the meantime I've got some people to communicate with.

And in the act of doing that, I'm going to try very hard to not impress upon them... any ideas I may have about how the world and life should go....into their psyche ---as some sort of demand.

[Chicodoodoo]

Posted by HORIZONS (here)

Posted by Teakai (here)
I agree, Chicodoodoo - I feel that is about the one failing of Avalon. I haven't any solutions as to what we can do about it,though

No offense, but it is simple really... We could always choose to deal with it! I've been here since AV1 and see no point in getting caught up in all the hoopla - it is what it is - so I deal with it

That is putting your private interest ahead of the best interests of Avalon members. It may be the best solution for you in the face of what appears to be a problem beyond your control, but it is not the best solution for all concerned.

[ThePythonicCow]

The United States is a joke of a country today. Do we want to see Avalon follow suit?

There is a fundamental difference between a nation and a web forum.

You normally only get to be live in one nation at a time, and there are only a couple hundred of them to choose from. Moving ones family, residence, and livelihood from one nation to another is a major undertaking. Actions taken and limitations imposed by a national government impact all those in nation, short of someone emigrating to another nation. Thus it is important that the policies of national governments tolerate a very wide range of individual choices.

Web forums are a dime a dozen. There are tens or hundreds of thousands of them. Most everyone reading this has or currently does participate in more than one. It is is entirely fitting and proper for various web forums to take on special preferences, in order to serve particular purposes and a select group of individuals.

I object strongly if my national government prohibits a certain food or nutrition. I don't mind at all if my local grocery store decides not to stock that same food or nutrition. The local store can stock whatever its management and ownership decide to stock. If they don't stock what I want to purchase, I go elsewhere, or do without.

That you (Chicodoodoo) would overlook this major and obvious difference between nations and web forums (and that you would title this thread "Censorship") suggests to me that you are more interested in complaining than in understanding.

[truthseekerdan]

I have this written in 'my journal' -- thought I will share it here:

Our expanding awareness is showing us that we are beginning to transcend fear, uncertainty, doubt and mental waste. It also allows us to become more open, allowing us to see the best in other people rather than just trying to manipulate or control other people. When we let go of control, only the truth remains.

The battle between good and evil is no longer polarizing our mind into false judgments as phantasms of deception and control are beginning to vanish from the forefront of our thoughts. Human beings can be irrational, unaware and lacking in sufficient understanding to control their own being. It is only when a person stops thinking as a physical being, that they begin to understand the answers to their fundamental problems are found in their metaphysical being.

Hope it helps.

Namaste ~ Dan

[Gaia]

A system of checks and balances is called for here, one that is circular as opposed to hierarchical.

By what criteria is one to isolate the unities with which one is dealing ?